A good Phono preamp is critical to get the most out of your turntable cartridge combo. That's a must.
@eugenefudge18832 жыл бұрын
I have a trigon vanguard III. Much better than the one in my Mac 252 hybrid amplifier. Day and night better.
@geminijinxies72582 жыл бұрын
The reason people still to this day say the speakers are the most important thing in a hifi system is because they make the biggest difference to the sound. The source on the other hand makes the biggest difference to the music and that's where the heart and soul is.
@QoraxAudio2 жыл бұрын
Don't forget that the turntable is the device you interact with the most. The tactile joy of using a solid feeling turntable unconsciously adds a lot of value to the music experience... while speakers are just... standing there untouched.
@IvanITpro Жыл бұрын
I dk, but I’ve touched and interacted with my speakers plenty by now. Move them in/out, closer farther, try them on stands, isolation pads, connect them with a OF pure copper wire ... 😅 Not to mention, building them and soldering the crossover for the drivers ... 😁👍
@neilgaydon54302 жыл бұрын
I’m a Linn devotee and 25 years ago I worked for them in a senior position for ten years doing these demos around the world. The logic and philosophy is right. I’m so committed to this in fact that outside my main system I even have Linn Klimax DSM’s driving small quality active speakers in my kitchen and bedroom for music and TV/Video which sound fabulous. A couple of points I would make to balance the argument into something for today’s world. Firstly, you need an amp and speakers good enough to hear the differences. Otherwise logic would suggest a fully loaded Rega 10 into a transistor radio is better than a Rega 3, Rega amp and a pair of Kef LS50 meta’s. The last system would be 10X better at a fraction of the price. Especially important is the choice of speakers. Secondly, most people don’t just listen to vinyl as music has mostly been in digital files since the 80’s, where a good quality DAC/streamer is crucial, and in most cases sounds better than a digital file converted to analogue & pressed to vinyl…doh! Also movies and other great entertainment play a big part in what a system needs to do. Content and multiple sources demand a more balanced holistic approach. If you only listen to vinyl, on a system that’s good enough to hear the differences, this approach is right. If anyone is interested my main system is a Linn Klimax LP12, the new Klimax DSM, Sky TV, 4K DVD, Klimax Solos and Kef Blade 2’s.
@JohnDoe-np3zk2 жыл бұрын
I bought a pair of KEF LS50 and tbh they kind of suck in a kind of detailed way. It's odd I just don't really want to listen to that tweeter and the woofer has a hump but they do sound good on I would say vocals in particular. Anyway for as hard as they are to drive, I still love my Infinity Kappa 8 and 7s. Have been making CD recordings lately off of youtube and an 80 mins CD is about 50 cents. Got a Nak ZX9 and there the new tapes suck gotta go old Maxells.
@neilgaydon54302 жыл бұрын
@@JohnDoe-np3zk Thanks…but it wasn’t the point I was making. Substitute your speakers for the Kef’s and do you now understand what I was saying.
2 жыл бұрын
Would you recommand linn components outside a full linn speaker? Or should they really be part of a full linn system? I’m asking because i’ve been looking at the klimax solo … but not sure how well they would fit with non linn components?
@neilgaydon54302 жыл бұрын
@ Despite what many people think Linn gear can work really well within other systems but like anything you have to try it in your own system to know. When the solos first came out many reviewers reviewed them in NON Linn systems awarding them 5***** with words like ground breaking. They have incredible musicality, devoid of sonic character and a near bottomless pit of power virtually regardless of speaker load. They’ll certainly let you know how good or bad your source/s and preamp are. And don’t let the small cases fool you, they’re that size due to the specially designed power supplies instead of the typical big humming toroidal transformers found in most big powerful power amps. People often listen with their eyes…a physically big amp must mean big power…hahaha! Check the Solo’s you’re looking at buying have the Dynamic power supply, I’m not saying the earlier ones without it are not good but there’s an appreciable improvement with it or expect to pay a much lower price without and look to have them upgraded if you can. Incidentally Linn’s head of engineering who had been with the company over 20 years and who designed many of Linns legendary famous products told me the Klimax Solos were his proudest achievement. The fact that 20 years later they are still Linn’s best power amp says it all. They drive my Kef Blades with complete ease, control and with a massive soundstage.
@warrengday2 жыл бұрын
@@neilgaydon5430 I upgraded from a Twin to a pair of Solo/d to drive my 242s several years ago and one of the best upgrades I've done. So glad to hear the designer was so proud of them.
@iainpops5079 Жыл бұрын
Just found this, after browsing through your back catalogue! I totally agree with your hierarchy, which was how Derek Whittington of Sound Advice (Rega, Linn, Naim dealer) described it to me some 30 plus years ago. But I love the noise in the room analogy, so correct and easy to understand why the turntable is more important than the cartridge. Which I have heard demonstrated several times, by people far cleverer and knowledgeable than me, and the majority of keyboard warriors!!
@papabear1417 Жыл бұрын
I've been watching your episodes for a week or so. Your knowledge, passion and style is superb.
@jackwezesa10812 жыл бұрын
You know you have a good sounding system no matter the cost when the drums sound right. Every thing else falls in to place . This is just my opinion . The high end stuff drove me nuts. I have a turntable , intergrated amp and $300 speakers and am in heaven!
@aidanpallister77842 жыл бұрын
Great video as always Phil, I’ve always held the view that the source was the most important element in the chain but the ‘speakers first’ perspective seems to be very popular in online chat forums these days. One thing that I’d love to hear your perspective on is cartridge / phono pre matching and how much to spend on a phono pre as a proportion of the total front end cost, Maybe for another video! Anyway thanks for the great content, keep it coming.
@antonyharding53602 жыл бұрын
I Appreciate you're Frankness, and vids. Regards Antony.
@6643bear Жыл бұрын
Another great informative video Phil , can’t agree more, regards mark
@derekgooding93792 жыл бұрын
A great video with some good advice offered, by a good dealer. It can be very difficult to get the balance right financially, when putting a system together. I would be one of Philip’s customers if I lived near Crewe !
@anthonyprime2 жыл бұрын
If you ever want to become Phil’s customer, I’ll put you up. 😂
@paulrogers70672 жыл бұрын
Simplified less mass less noise . This is why Rega outshines so many manufacturers. Proof is in the pudding.
@billywindsock95972 жыл бұрын
Spot on. The next step from this would be to give an upgrade path.
@KM-wl1tp Жыл бұрын
Great explanation, and makes a lot of sense
@yeti80732 жыл бұрын
Superb, informative video Phil, and very interesting to see a Kiseki Purple Heart on the P10. Perhaps that would be an idea for a video? Where you outline your favourite alternative cartridges for the Rega decks, and of course the VTA issues etc?
@vinylrulesok84702 жыл бұрын
The room and where you place your speakers will have the biggest effect on what your system sounds like. Gotta get that right first, but yes I agree with you, a turntable is a vibration measuring device, so no point in putting an expensive cart if your feeding it the wrong vibrations. Prioritise where you site the TT (a wall shelf will work wonders), the plinth, the platter, then the arm, then the cart.
@arthurgordon60722 жыл бұрын
Hard to argue. Well put.
@andrewcrossley24482 ай бұрын
Expert at Audio T told me the magic ratio is 4 to 2 to 1 for source then amp then speakers. On a demo of a Linn (£4K), Rega amp (£2k) and AE500 speakers (£1k) using some state of the art classical albums from the 1960s and 1970s I brought in here proved to be right. We then added on a REL sub bass and there was some imaging improvements as well as deeper bass but the biggest impact other than the Linn was the amazing SolidSteel stands. At about £600 they are very expensive but boy are they worth it.
@keithbertschin12132 жыл бұрын
Paul McGowan says the other way round, prioritize speakers first. I’m with you both (or against you both however you choose to look at it 😀) surely the whole system needs to be at a similar level. If any one part of the chain is substandard to the rest it’s gona act as a bottleneck
@polarbear34272 жыл бұрын
The easiest rule of thumb is: spend €100,- for every Kilogram of a piece of equipement with exception of the cartridge including needle: spend €10,- per gram on that, and €10,- per metre of cable.
@hwrk7775 ай бұрын
Thanks. You explained it well. I learned a lot from this video.
@tonyhodgkinson45862 жыл бұрын
I’ve never quite got the bass thing, one reason I can’t get along with ported speakers, always infinite baffle for me. As long as I can follow a bass line, that’s ok for me. Surely has to be turntable, tonearm,cartridge,pre amp,power amp. Turntable first I.e. the main bearing rumble will transfer to the tonearm and onto the cartridge etc, etc.
@Coneman311 ай бұрын
I agree source is number one. Then you build from there. The better the source, the better everything that comes after.
@scottchegg12092 жыл бұрын
Skunk. Best upgrade. Works on all systems.
@TheMentalblockrock7 ай бұрын
you can hear different notes and chords on Pink Floyd albums......
@Si1983h2 жыл бұрын
The pub singer analogy doesn’t transfer entirely, but it’s still a great way to put it. I’m still using Linn Ninkas in my main system which whilst very competent, are on the lower end of the scale from Linn, and getting on now too, but they still show every change up front. I heard a big improvement when I added the Neo to my P5, and another big improvement when I changed the P5 out for an Akurate(ish) spec LP12… the LP12 was a close run with the P10, lovely deck the P10!
@EduardBroekman2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant rarely heard advice and analogy; the turntable makes an enormous difference. I would add that high sensitivity speakers (95db/W+) have the exact same effect but they won't reach their engaging potential without a good source.
@Benvos2 жыл бұрын
I would agree with this, as long as your speakers are still up to a good standard. I put most of my money into the front end, then amp, then speakers. I chose speakers I really wanted and are very good, but I found some ex-demo knowing I’d one day upgrade them to match the level of the front end. I’m currently in no hurry to replace the speakers as I love my system, but I know the day I want an improvement that is where I’ll start.
@ntserver12 жыл бұрын
I do agree with your hierarchy, it all starts at the signal. 'kiseki purple heart', would love to hear one of those...
@joemartin643910 ай бұрын
You are absolutely right, I have Casta B horn speaker , tube amp best cables
@Gug9000 Жыл бұрын
A manufacturer’s rep once told me, 15% percent of the people who walk into our high-end store are looking for Jesus. The rest want more bass. Phil is right. Most people don’t know what real bass is. They think bass is what is actually lower booming midrange.
@Mc674bo2 жыл бұрын
Hi sir I fully understand why you can’t now respond to comments so in this case don’t , just to say it’s obvious you have spent probably most of your adult life in the realm of hifi , just as I have spent my working life in the world of electrical contracting . And I know if I comment on my chosen field someone will always try to shoot me down , yer right . Yes I have had an interest in hifi since 1969 but I no nothing compared to your good self . But I know an expert when I see one , and you fit totally into that category . Best wishes and kind regards as always. 😀👍👍👍
@warrengday2 жыл бұрын
Eric Clapton in a pub versus as busker in the Albert Hall, what a perfect metaphor.
@kfernandes86 Жыл бұрын
I think source first approach makes sense for an analogue setup. In case of a Digital setup, good DACs are quite cheap nowadays, and the differences are difficult to notice. So Amp & Speakers give more improvements
@hawkmoon369 Жыл бұрын
Yes you are right a good turn table is critical for cartridge to pickup information from vinyl.
@hoobsgroove2 жыл бұрын
best to make your own plinth out of 3 inch open cell foam two pieces of 6mm hardboard, a piece of oak for the centre bearing and another circular peace for the tonearm, and buy good quality bearing like from Linn. put the money into a good arm. speed control unit doesn't have to be expensive and the best is the phoenix engineering and the roadrunner. as good as the best turntable out there
@jackwezesa10812 жыл бұрын
????????????????????????????????????
@TheMentalblockrock7 ай бұрын
I find English oak, especially 300 years old, kiln dried, from the south East (Kentish is the best!) gives a much crisper sound than the cheap Chinese Oak you get these days.
@jenogilvie-grant26362 жыл бұрын
Excellent video 👌👌thanks!
@bububarx45592 жыл бұрын
Paul McGowan from PS Audio writes exactly the opposite in his book: first loudspeakers then source. In case of analog: phono pre ->cartridge->tonearm->table. I dont know whats right, but I think Paul is an honest guy with lots of experience
@kinasc15752 жыл бұрын
Paul McClown has spouted a fair bit of rubbish over the years, and I certainly wouldn't put the "honest" near his name, look up the 2 recent reviews of his stuff on, AudioScienceReviews on YT. Although having said that, I personally think speakers first would be the way I would suggest.
@markcarrington85652 жыл бұрын
YES! Totally agree, Phil.
@carmenandthedevil28042 жыл бұрын
Love it. Great explanation mate. It's amazing how many Audiophiles? out there approach setting up a system back to front. When I was selling HiFi, I use to use cooking as an analogy for a system setup. Chef/Ingredients/Flavour. Turntable/Amp/Speakers.
@cassettedecksresurrection72042 ай бұрын
Room,speakers and amplifier are major factor
@MiataBRG Жыл бұрын
Thanks for another very helpful video 👍
@guyboisvert668 ай бұрын
It's rather easy and fairly cheap: Get a good DAC, the technology is very well mastered these days and you can easily get a superbly sounding product for under 1000$! For example, get an SMSL D6S @ 230$, It will surpass any turntable at any price point. But sure, get high quality recording, poor records won't sound any better on a high fidelity DAC / sound system. The P10 is a good engineering iteration of an old technology. This aging technology brought music to the reach of people. But the media and this technology can't compete with well engineered digital. You can prefer the sound of a tube amp with its added harmonic distortion and non-linearity, you can prefer vinyl (+ large artwork, physically handling it.etc), that's like preferring a good old sport car to a brand new shiny Tesla! You hear the grunt noise, you smell burned petrol, you like it's rough handling, that's a choice like many others!
@tonyjedioftheforest13642 жыл бұрын
I agree with you completely. Spot on video.
@1mctous2 жыл бұрын
As a tuba player I hate boomy bass reproduction. I prefer quality over quantity even if it's rolled off below 80 Hz. BTW tubas have the most energy in the 150 Hz region.
@gaborozorai37142 жыл бұрын
I think it was Roksan who said the TT was a measuring device when they launched the original Xerxes.
@papabear14174 ай бұрын
Hi Phil, a suggestion. In your humble, experienced opinion, an episode of turntable, amplifier combinations?
@theworldaccordingto4555 Жыл бұрын
Garbage In = Garbage Out. Best signal into your amp the better. Amps and speakers can only amplify and put out that signal, if that signal is rubbish, hence, Garbage In = Garbage Out. A good guitarist can make a mediocre guitar and amp/cab sound really good, whereas a bad guitarist will make the best guitar and Marshall stack sound bad. Garbage In = Garbage Out.
@gregorygreg4263 Жыл бұрын
I play records and CDs a cd player should be pitch perfect compared to records I prefer the record player. I use a technics DJ turntable I'm sure everybody is familiar with this turntable. I used a project carbon arm and started with a rega basic cartridge. I then went to an audio technica moving coil and what a difference this made. It was night and day. Records always sound better than CDs. I hold with no particular way to build a system . I say experiment until you get the sound you like. If a dealer says this is better I say prove it. I will bring the equipment into my system, make the change if it sounds better. How many speakers I went through supposedly excellent speakers costing up to three thousand pounds before settling on a pair of dynaudio. I would like to try a rega turntable which one is better than the technics 1210 and I will try it and let you know what I think.
@ranbirgill47184 ай бұрын
Have loved hifi all my life. Have an lp12 etc etc at the age of 60 having gone to too many loud concerts I still dream of upgrading however I can’t hear the tv until the wife shouts at me. What upgrade choices do I have … bar hearing aids. Having mentioned them are there any high end hifi hearing aids that have great separation good clarity and enough bass to enjoy drum and beat? Will the resonances of any part make a difference if I get good hearing aids?
@larryayres4592 Жыл бұрын
Well said!
@timothyfreeseha40562 жыл бұрын
Well explained!
@erikjohansson1488 Жыл бұрын
just buy an direct drive and no problem with slowing down.
@seymourclearly Жыл бұрын
Therebis one thing that is really important -- everything
@anthonydaley278 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video and info , my question is I’ve got a 2022 Rega P3 with the factory blue cartridge fitted speed control box wall mounted and now the new rega MK4 Elex R amplifier running into a pair of Focal Aria 926 speakers. Would I benefit from changing my cartridge to say the rega MC and rega MC Preamp. What do you think ?
@mikeeygauthier29592 жыл бұрын
If the “SOURCE” is wrong everything else will be wrong!! It even starts with the microphones in the recording studio. I would go with 50% of budget on Source and Cable’s.
@johnholmes9122 жыл бұрын
Source first: garbage in, garbage out
@TheMentalblockrock7 ай бұрын
record first! a bad sounding album -such as Black Sabbath live at last, will never sound good on any system.
@AmazonasBiotop2 жыл бұрын
Interesting I started to think. I have a test record. And I did measure wow and flutter while playing that record. I got a graph and i saw the variations. And I naturally thinking that of course is should strive for the lowest variations. But how low wow and flutter can I achieve? Nothing is 100% accurate and the cutting head on the lathe that is cutting the lacquer for producing my test record have of course ALSO wow and flutter.. When that lathe wow and flutter is not declared then I naturally don't know how much my TT has and how much of the wow and flutter already in my test record from the lathe.. And I can't get any lower wow and flutter than what the lathe has. In short we may be able to measure and get lower wow and flutter but only to a certain point with this type of method as a test record and nobody knows where the bottom is (good enough for the method used)..👍
@chuckmaddison292411 ай бұрын
Start with where you want to listen. Then buy suitable speakers. No point buying something for the Wembley stadium if you plan on listening in the bedroom.
@bobnot242 жыл бұрын
In a pure sense this video is true. But you will have to think that people coming in turntables at this point are younger people with a limited collection of vinyls. They might have some records that they have inherited and don't want to throw away. So they are wondering what is it about as so far they've enjoyed music with Spotify and a pair of headphones. So they will want to get a system that can play Spotify and also play those records. And the the musicality and transient response of the analog system has to beat the Spotify. But still buying a Rega 8/10 is like buying a car for younger people.
@utube4andydent Жыл бұрын
If I was a friend of the pub singer. A late friend was a pub singer then the Albert hall would be over kill. Musical tastes differ so the design needs to focus on this. It’s a bit like trying to play Chopin on a harpsichord it might have the right notes but the whole performance would not be quite right quite funny but not right. So choose a turntable on use not just the numbers.
@mrmods79122 жыл бұрын
Superb as usual... Which bookshelf speakers are best for my P6 and brio? I've now got limited space.. if you stock speakers for it...I will buy from you
@mrmods7912 Жыл бұрын
@Abe Froman cheers! Thanks for the advice
@paulmatthews4293 Жыл бұрын
I had this demonstrated back in the 80s. It was an open evening at a hifi dealer. Roksan Xerxes, Artemiz, Shira, Artaxerxes, Bryston pre/power amps and the obvious speakers were the Darius speaker from Roksan. Music was playing and I was seriously impressed. Then the guy presenting said "OK, Let's go from the Hotcakes to the Darius" Wasn't the turntable/cart as a measuring device a Touraj Moghaddam comment?
@leonidvolovik5203 Жыл бұрын
Would you need to raise the tonearm to install Kiseki Purple Heart on Rega P10?
@davidevans31752 жыл бұрын
If you're on a budget put less into the turntable and more into the cartridge.
@mekore Жыл бұрын
did you use any shim when using the kiseki?
@nigelsmith2044 Жыл бұрын
Blind listening tests..cuts out the psycological factor of price and brand 2 turntables same cartridge same ancilliary gear, play same pieces of music on both..let customer decide..if they cant tell difference go for cheaper buy....thats how i ended.up.with audio technica deck over a rega p3
@Anybloke2 жыл бұрын
Speaking as someone who has collected vinyl since a teenager in the 70s, I'd say the best thing to happen since then is CD. No worrying about pops, crackles, records "sticking" or "jumping", wow, flutter, timing etc. The vinyl revival is over hyped and over priced.
@russputin62942 жыл бұрын
Speaking as someone who has been eating food since a child in the 60's I'd say the best thing ever to happen to the culinary world is the invention of the frozen microwaveable ready meal. No worrying about obtaining and preparing fresh ingredients, no more messy pans to wash up, no more concern about gas supply restrictions for the hob, no more inconsistencies in preparation. I think the whole fresh food and quality restaurant culture is over hyped and over priced 😄
@davidthom7127 Жыл бұрын
To a lot of people compact disc sourced systems don't sound musical, they produce noise. And if that's ok with you, that's fine.
@davidthom7127 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewobrien3271 compact disc systems, of what ever level, still only produce pixel approximations
@davidthom7127 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewobrien3271 I still prefer real music. But if you're happy. 👍
@davidthom7127 Жыл бұрын
@@andrewobrien3271 I did not say vinyl was the best, just not as artificial as compact discs.
@dannyfannyfoodle2 жыл бұрын
Rubbish video. How can you neglect even mentioning the phono preamp, let alone focusing on its importance in an analog system? Planar 10 and Kiseki Purple Heart through the built in phono preamp of most preamps or integrateds will be so constrained as to be indiscernible from a stock P3. So what’s the point?
@TheMentalblockrock7 ай бұрын
a friend of mine has just bought a P10 and an expensive pre and power amp set up. I'd like to hear how my P3 sounds on that system compared to his P10, will it be 7 better????
@carlsitler90712 жыл бұрын
They already made a better record player. It is called a CD player.
@ronaldweed61032 жыл бұрын
YES
@jackwezesa10812 жыл бұрын
They sound like cardboard in comparison .
@1mctous2 жыл бұрын
Digital measures better but usually sounds worse. 24/96 approaches the LP's level of resolution on a good turntable.
@jackbrugts3302 жыл бұрын
It would be so much more informative if you let us hear something. It seems youre Just babbling and saying nothing really.
@COLDMKULTRA Жыл бұрын
@Jack Brugts Anyone who thinks that they can "hear something" to determine audio quality on youtube (with the youtube compression algorithm) ... OBVIOUSLY, Understands NOTHING regarding audio, or audio quality. Just because you cannot comprehend what Phil is talking about ... well, that is your problem ... educate yourself before making moronically stupid Trolling comments. I have noticed that you continuously Troll Phil's channel ... Why? ... Because of your obvious total ignorance? Get a life and grow up Buddy
@wilfredmay52312 жыл бұрын
This cretin will try to sell you HiFi fuses.
@tonyjedioftheforest1364 Жыл бұрын
Why are you watching then?
@leon90212 жыл бұрын
So much word salad and assumptions with no backing at all.
@1mctous2 жыл бұрын
Do you accept the garbage in, garbage out premise? A system can't sound better than its source.
@leon90212 жыл бұрын
@@1mctous No, its stupid and clearly false. Of course the one who came up with it would be a TT company.
@1mctous2 жыл бұрын
@@leon9021 I don't fault them for self interest. However I am deeply familiar with both analog and digital sound and can hear more information from the LP in direct A/B LP/CD comparisons of the same albums.
@leon90212 жыл бұрын
@@1mctous Thats beside the point. I only listen to LP as well, but I would never say its superior to CD. You cant compare formats this way since there is no fair comparison. You dont know how a release was sourced and mastered for the respective medium so you cant say what made a difference.