TASBot vs Super Monkey Ball by dwangoAC in

Рет қаралды 616,851

6 жыл бұрын

Run starts at 9:18
Thanks to Masterjun, micro500, GrandPOOBear, Ilari, Jaku, Tinahacks, CyclopsDragon, Byrz, PistonMiner, metaconstruct, Bobjrsenior, CraftedCart, Bites, Numbers, Funkmastermp, MediaMagnet, and Timeshifter
This speedrun was recorded live at Awesome Games Done Quick 2018, a weeklong charity speedrun marathon raising money for Prevent Cancer Foundation. Awesome Games Done Quick 2018 is just one of the many charity marathons put on by Games Done Quick. For more information on AGDQ2018, find us at: gamesdonequick.com
Looking for live updates? Follow us on Twitter: / gamesdonequick
Like us on Facebook: / gamesdonequick

Пікірлер: 137

@frallan874 4 жыл бұрын

10:23 explanation 10:49 gameplay

@moth.monster 5 жыл бұрын

Protip: don't store replays as delta of player position unless you want this to happen

@xJabro 5 жыл бұрын

90% of the commentary is him saying "there's no time for commentary!"

@paulk6399 5 жыл бұрын

Jabro the other 8% is ‘that’s not how you normally do that’ and final 2% is ‘let’s watch that again’

@Cactusman129 2 жыл бұрын

that's how you know it's a good TAS

@Rexcalibar 5 жыл бұрын

I laughed pretty hard during all the physics breaking ones. I need more of that.

@anotherkenlon 6 жыл бұрын

Infosec meets speed running, right here. "Sorry, we've now proven that you can't trust, and never could trust, replays."

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

That was the primary focus of my DEF CON talk - there's a lot of opportunities for learning infosec / reverse engineering techniques using TAS tools. It's one of the main reasons I try my best to engage people and invite them in to helping out with TASBot content; we get the benefit of more resources and the people who help often learn a ton in the process.

@jumpythehat 6 жыл бұрын

Always love TASes, good to see they came back this year

@j.a.8224 6 жыл бұрын

The highlight of a TASbot block isn't the TAS (that's cool too to see on the real hardware, sure) but how they proceed to demolish a game so thoroughly that other things happen. Like, say, breaking free of the game to play their created credits sequence. It's not quite Sk'hype but that's pretty cool even if it isn't quite via controller input alone.

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Full disclosure: we had a lot of possible angles of attack for a true Arbitrary Code Execution but we had difficulties bringing it all together. We definitely destroyed any semblance of trust that replay files are legitimate, however. I'm still hopeful something will be discovered in time that will allow us to take total control of Super Monkey Ball.

@blacktheripper9137 6 жыл бұрын

Should have been called: Tasbot vs commentary.

@jaimedeleon1194 6 жыл бұрын

TASbot has the fastest completion time ever! 0.00

@Simmcal 6 жыл бұрын

It’s kind of hard to tell what’s going on. I can’t really appreciate the TAS when levels are over before I see them. It’s like just showing me a completed Rubik’s cube and saying it was tough. The last few levels with the trick exhibitions were good though!

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

I really wish the GDQ submissions team had approved the category I submitted where we were going to play only a handful of levels (the most entertaining and unique ones) and spend the time to do proper commentary. Unfortunately, they opted to use the full run category and the original TAS authors weren't able to register in time. Frankly, it was nearly hard for *me* to tell what was going on and I probably watched the entire sequence a few dozen times.

@ChaosPootato 6 жыл бұрын

TAS Block is always quality content. Cheers to those guys

@ChairmanMeow1 5 жыл бұрын

Man I loooooved this game when it first came out. It was an awesome multi player game.

@nathanieldonley5502 6 жыл бұрын

Kind of hard to be hype when the people on the couch seem to have a "too cool for TASes" demeanor. That's the impression I got, ~"...wow, you beat the level fast, imagine that." TASBot is usually a highlight of any GDQ for me, I hope they can come back better from this. Rather than saying (multiple times) IL commentary can't be provided, it would have been better to be prepared to use the time to instead give general information about the TAS. Just my hopefully constructive criticism, I think DwangoAC is otherwise a great presenter and hope to seeing MORE TASBot in future GDQ's!

@jan050375 6 жыл бұрын

imo the first tasbot was the best, where the bot actually physically pressed the buttons of a NES controller, the years after that they just showed recorded videos and hooked into the chat afterwards. this year they showed replays, which were started by human input and tasbot was just sitting there.

@Crow653 6 жыл бұрын

jan409 All TASes are replays, I don't understand what you mean.

@GhastlytheTinkerer 6 жыл бұрын

The recent ones have been amazing from a computer science perspective. Like the TASBot running Skype on a SNES for video and NES for audio.

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

The commentary for the Super Monkey Ball segment was particularly difficult for me. I've seen a lot of feedback in the past about how people don't like to be patronized, but they also don't like to have everything on screen stated back to them either. It was hard for me to find the right balance given that some of the commentators were very quiet and the authors of the run didn't register before AGDQ 2018 registrations filled up. I think having the run authors on-site would have helped tremendously. Still, I have no regrets.

@nathanieldonley5502 6 жыл бұрын

Honor to hear from you, dwangoAC. That's a bummer the authors weren't able to be there. Given the situation, you handled it very well - commentary is NOT easy, and I know it's easy for me or anyone else to give hindsighted feedback. TASBot truly is a highlight of the entire marathon for me (and I know many others) and a lot of my earlier comment was fueled by feeling the block wasn't getting the level of respect it should. I can only imagine a ton of work went into what we were presented. Can't wait to see you return.

@avd7288 6 жыл бұрын

Not the best TAS. It simply doesn't live up to the "highjacking a gameboy cartridge through the supergameboy plugged into a SNES via controller inputs" quality.

@shiftyginger 5 жыл бұрын

Which TAS was that?

@Thisisthegreatestatofalltime 2 жыл бұрын

My favorite speedrunner TAS.

@gamerman6621 5 жыл бұрын

16:00 what happend to level 47?

@alexrc2000 4 жыл бұрын

It went into a green goal (regular goal is blue) which lets you skip the next level. Red goals (there is one earlier in the run) skip 2 levels instead. In Any% those levels can be skipped to make the run faster.

@nickp8564 6 жыл бұрын

oooh yeaah agdq 2018 boys!

@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube 6 жыл бұрын

I know it'd be silly, but I'd love to see a TAS v. RTA someday. To keep it fair(-ish), no TAS-only stuff, same route, same set of glitches planned, but the people doing the TAS still get to potentially get it perfect. Obviously the lone meatbag would lose, barring something incredible, but it'd be interesting to see just how much difference perfect execution makes, compared to an expert runner doing everything live.

@kikicat123 5 жыл бұрын

Why does the spinning of polycarbonate frisbees have to be so inconsistent and unpredictable

@gferrol118 6 жыл бұрын

childhood me just had her mind blown

@avideogamemaster 4 жыл бұрын

Entertaining to watch

@ballajac000 6 жыл бұрын

God you go through the videos so quickly there is no time for commentary

@julliannedlc 6 жыл бұрын

I knew I recognized his voice! It's Big Jon on the mic

@Zearo298 6 жыл бұрын

if anyone wants to hear more explanation about what's going on and how it works you should watch the Super Monkey Ball 2 run from HRDQ 2017's TAS block, it's the second game played. A couple dudes talk about what's going on during that one.

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, having the authors of the TAS *really* helped. I wish they could have made it to the event, there was no way I could do justice to what they had created.

@MizuhoChan 6 жыл бұрын

Don't stop for time Kappa they aren't timing it at all.

@alexandermueller8987 5 жыл бұрын

Packed couch full of amazing people

@CSmyth- 6 жыл бұрын

I'm confused about all the missing levels. Can somebody explain why so many were missing? Is it an error with the replay system?

@lucrayzor9657 6 жыл бұрын

Took the warp gates, makes them unnecessary since in a normal run they'd get skipped.

@CSmyth- 6 жыл бұрын

Lucrayzor Oh, okay. Thank you for that!

@davemarx7856 5 жыл бұрын

Ok... the donation reading I could defend but putting ads as part of the content? I know it's for a good cause but dangit that's blech.

@Renox_GG 6 жыл бұрын

I was watching this while sleep deprived and it was so trippy

@eeveedude632 6 жыл бұрын

TAS BABY

@goroyoshi6056 6 жыл бұрын

Where do I find the repo for this monkeyball reverse engineering?

@ttttom23 6 жыл бұрын

BigJon reading donations!

@mtylerryan 6 жыл бұрын

All hail our robot overlords~~!!

@wings22 5 жыл бұрын

9:17

@tnpcook 6 жыл бұрын

This video is over half not-the-run.

@shanekowaleski2247 6 жыл бұрын

There are so many impossible strategies in this tool assisted run

@stepexgd6628 6 жыл бұрын

22:28 Is this a Krazyman50 reference?

@chrisledger4481 6 жыл бұрын

Tasbot odyssey? Possible with custom controllers

@brickhop1774 6 жыл бұрын

how come the timer never started?

@demerion 6 жыл бұрын

I waited half of the run for the run to start -.-

@TheStickCollector 6 жыл бұрын

Im bothered by the timer stopping

@GrizonII 6 жыл бұрын

Really wish they explained a bit more.

@maiknocon773 6 жыл бұрын

What happened to floor 47?

@10roub28 6 жыл бұрын

now we need a learning AI to do ALTTP randomizers

@paulshadowsx 6 жыл бұрын

Back on 2009 i losed at level 50...

@ASIGOO 6 жыл бұрын

I wish they explained what the hell was happening in those final levels, but pretty cool to see nonetheless

@manuel14ism 4 жыл бұрын

The guy did explain it, he said thar those replays were modified by them and that they're tools available for everyone to use and create their own crazy replays like those last ones.

@zackwestrules 4 жыл бұрын

Omfg at 22:09 when the goal post popped up my stomach turned and I almost threw up.

@eerieyellowlights 6 жыл бұрын

maybe cut the ads out of the videos when you're putting them on youtube? seems super skeezy to just leave them in.

@Aaronatorr 5 жыл бұрын

*When you expected an actual speedrun but it's just watching replays*

@everettgladden2065 5 жыл бұрын

Do you know what a TAS is?

@notottomedic 6 жыл бұрын

I heard big john, and I stayed.

@CHGamer296778 4 жыл бұрын

I tried doing the Master 4 Trick but I got glitched inside that red carpet.

@CHGamer296778 4 жыл бұрын

And then beat it with 47:47 left

@Sir_Uncle_Ned 5 жыл бұрын

Jebus. I suppose I should have expected no less since Super Mario World was converted to Snake - but this still impressed me!

@moise1903 3 жыл бұрын

“Motion sickness when playing a video game..ha!”

@cindydurand102 6 жыл бұрын

Where's ex floor 3 and ex floor 4

@waluigitime5960 6 жыл бұрын

Didn't know this was a kill the animals run

@Pleasestoptalkingthanks 6 жыл бұрын

Who the fuck takes the time to master these approaches?

@Rusted_Obsidian 5 жыл бұрын

TAS Bot replay speedrun 100% WR

@kordru 5 жыл бұрын

Okay how the fuck does TASBot work I need him

@bluebottle9555 6 жыл бұрын

the donations dude sounds like bryan barbarin

@Bign8253 5 жыл бұрын

"What happened" "..."

@JetixR 3 жыл бұрын

23:38 Don't worry, the ball was the only one injured

@rickysanchez5030 6 жыл бұрын

Spiked Vegeta isn’t announcer anymore...? 😕

@dunkaholicdom2323 6 жыл бұрын

Ricky Sanchez he was at one point i believe they take shifts so it’s easier on them

@MrNor_ 6 жыл бұрын

Shwag

@Astraaaaaaaaaaa 6 жыл бұрын

SO NO COLOR A DINO!??!?!?!

@soulswordobrigadosegostar 6 жыл бұрын

A little bit weak in comparison to other years but it is still great

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Keep in mind that Super Monkey Ball was just one of 5 different things we did. Have a look at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/od90Z5RqlbfQmok.html which has all of them in one place. Having said that, I had to organize something different this year because after last year there really wasn't anything more we could do on the technical side with NES/SNES. I instead opted to focus on entertainment as much as possible. There's things I'd like to tweak if I could but I'm happy with the overall results of what the team built.

@soulswordobrigadosegostar 6 жыл бұрын

dwangoAC woah dude,that's awesome

@MrBluetshirtguy 6 жыл бұрын

Omfg why can't you guys edit 10m out so I dont have to read the comments all the time. ):

@tissuepaper9962 6 жыл бұрын

Otacon464 They could just fucking put it at the end instead. Most of the donations pertain to the previous run anyway, just move the cut from the beginning of setup to the end of setup and there you go, simple. Also, they obviously do have at least one person *hired* to cut individual runs out of the stream, and it doesn't take that long to make one cut in a video.

@UsernameHere51 6 жыл бұрын

The timer isn’t on : (

@spartanipods 5 жыл бұрын

Wait, if it's a TAS bot doing the speedrun, why does he need a controller? Am I the only one who noticed this?

@keiyakins Жыл бұрын

the traditional tasbot input method, where it pretends to be a controller, can't work for the GameCube. or indeed any disc based console. loading times are slightly nondeterministic because of the physics of spinning a piece of shiny plastic real fast, so just playing back a bunch of buttons can't work. they got around it for this game by recording replay files on an emulator and playing them back on console

@HDeDeDe 5 жыл бұрын

20:25 johnny joestar masters the spin

@fragant47 6 жыл бұрын

Shchwagg

@halvarianknight4477 6 жыл бұрын

Do you know da Eggroll?

@thespicehoarder 6 жыл бұрын

I'm so disappointed in this year's TAS

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear that you were disappointed. Was there nothing out of the 5 appearances we had at GDQ (as shown at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/od90Z5RqlbfQmok.html over on the TASVideos channel) that appealed to you? What kind of content would you like us to work on for next year instead?

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Spongyoshi! There's no way we can please everyone because so many people have different tastes and ideas on what a perfect TASBot segment should contain but knowing what people want to see in general is still quite helpful.

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Spongyoshi! I'll be doing a stream at twitch.tv/dwangoAC today where I will go through each of the AGDQ 2018 TASBot / TAS content segments with additional explanation and I will likely be posting a highlight on KZfaq. Hopefully that will help. Thanks for the feedback!

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

Spongyoshi! I intend to make a highlight of the main part of it, yes. Watch for an announcement from @MrTASBot on Twitter.

@kryptanitekiller8898 6 жыл бұрын

Saw terras lvl is on beginner ive beat it on exspert mode its way easier

@thechugg4372 6 жыл бұрын

Well the timer is stopped x)

@davemarx7856 5 жыл бұрын

I can't believe I'm saying this but... that's too fast.

@AJ-ed7mx 6 жыл бұрын

How come anytime i watch videos of speedruns theres always 10 minutes of bullshit i have to skip through to see what the video advertises in the title?

@AJ-ed7mx 6 жыл бұрын

Otacon464 gotcha. I appreciate the cause

@noe9250 5 жыл бұрын

Can human do that? Lololololol

@PharaohMisa 6 жыл бұрын

16:28 WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED?

@bykaru67 6 жыл бұрын

Careful spoiler : TasBot didn't do shit

@QuixEnd 6 жыл бұрын

41.. 42.. 45..

@QuixEnd 6 жыл бұрын

graciousAnomaly oh okay that makes sense!

@PhoenixRosie 6 жыл бұрын

Woah a speed run 10 mins ago..

@quasiotter 6 жыл бұрын

dwango ac is a bit awkward and it's so cute! very sexy too.

@mariomon1177 5 жыл бұрын

555666Subs

@HitsuTachi01 6 жыл бұрын

Not TASBot at all, this is just TAS runs. No Twitch integration, please never call that a TASBot ever again.

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

The original plan was to use an actual bot with generous timings to drive the entire thing automatically but the hardware needed more time to bake and we kind of want to save that for when we do experiments with swapping the disc drive with solid state storage to see if we can get deterministic behavior. As it was, I kind of liked being able to advance the content at a pace of my own choosing as it allowed me to easily choose to repeat a couple of segments.

@FinetalPies 6 жыл бұрын

dwangoAC That's fair

@trickscratch 6 жыл бұрын

first

@Jayk0b 6 жыл бұрын

This is not a run.. Just watching bullshit replays

@dwangoAC 6 жыл бұрын

This is definitely completely legit (well, the levels up through the end of Master were, anyway). They were all made in Dolphin and a perfect human could do them in realtime on a console. They were replay files both for time (because it was faster than watching the zoom out animation) and to demonstrate TAS-level play on a physical console. Still, it's not ideal; I am hopeful we will create a way to force some games to be deterministic enough to do this properly with controller input instead.

@vswimmy4951 6 жыл бұрын

This shouldn’t even count all he’s doing is just watching his best speed runs not even doing it live

@rainermist2357 6 жыл бұрын

Faze expert So, you don't know what TAS is? And that it is simply another speed run category?

@erichall090909 6 жыл бұрын

Faze expert so you don’t know what TAS is. Got it

@bjornwithit 6 жыл бұрын

Faze expert Just delete your comment bro. Think before you spout shit you’re not sure about.

@Gamer2k4 6 жыл бұрын

Still, doesn't a TAS usually have full control the entire time? I get that it's not the guy running the game, but he's still just selecting and watching pre-recording videos. Even if the demos are from a TAS execution, it still seems like an unusual way of doing it.

@Senrath 6 жыл бұрын

He actually explained why they did it this way. As a disc based system, trying to run it on the original hardware normally doesn't work very well, since the way the disc is spun and read introduces some non-deterministic elements. The choices were either run it from replay files on the original hardware or run it via an emulator, and they chose the former.