I have cut out 12 holes in my ceiling. I went from 2 speakers at 0°. Then 4 at +55° and -55°. Then 6 at +55°, 0°, -55° . (Based on recommendations from respected people on KZfaq, Audioholics, Anthony Gremani , Home Theatre gurus etc.) Then I watched Techno Dad's atmos renderer videos. Which threw a spanner in the works. So, I decided to make six extra holes that are in line with the bed layer. Lots of moving speakers, and crawling around the loft, and recalibration, and listening, and moving speakers, and crawling around the loft, and listening, and recalibration... on and on it went. But..... I think Channa is right. So thanks, Techno Dad, many more man hours later, it sounds right. Guess it's time to start filling in those original holes.🙄

The come closer "I don’t care" was personal 😂😂

A reminder has been set ☺- You can do both by integrating design features so that they aid the sound and video, items in the room remain functional and also look nice and not like you are in a black coffin. I am glad you brought this subject up. Using common can get you results that deliver both, but of course if common sense was a currency we would all be rich. Love this video 👌

I settled for a soundbar sub, and rear speakers 5.1.(2) set up for my lounge, because I only use Blu-ray, and have noticed most of them carry dts X as their only audio source. I'm not going to go with 4k discs, so this fits my audio needs while being aesthetically smaller than a full system. The dts sound fills the room better than the few Atmos discs I have. And as usual, I am the only one in the house that pores over these decisions. The .2 is in brackets because the q600b upfiring are half the power of the mains, and bring some atmosphere, but not height.

Very interesting and makes total sense. I have a 7.1.4 system in my living room, so full of compromises. I had to go for in ceiling speakers for my hight channels so need to bring them in closer to be able to get the best out of them. I’m assuming that if you are advocating putting speakers in the corners, it would be better to use bookshelf sized speakers angled to the listener?

Hi, love your content! Does your opinion aboht height speaker placement change depending on the ceiling height of the room? For example, 6' vs 10' vs 15'? Looking at the Atmos box, can you guesstimate the room dimensions based on the screen size?

Finally!! I've been waiting for a video like this forever. Amazingly simple and logical topic. Thanks, Channa! 🍻

For a 7.1.6 setup as you describe, I"m assuming you'll need a pretty specialized/advanced amp, what do you recommend? or are there tricks to making existing systems that support fewer ceiling speakers support more?

Note position of speakers at 12:33 and 12:46 in the pro mixing room. Would it not be best to recreate that layout used in the studio to monitor the mix? Those speakers appear to fall within dolby instruction rather than following your suggestions here.

13.2 does me , it took a while but base level are all at ear level once seated, my height speakers are all same level and the top speaker is above my seat and it blows me away.. 😊

Dude, I had this same conversation talking to a buddy of mine when listening to demos. He wants me to set up his system and I was telling him why I recommend having the atmos speakers match the positions of the bed layer. He kept going back to the dolby charts and I kept explaining why the bed layer is so good at placing sound in the room and why having the top layer match that exactly would be best. Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. Awesome video and keep up the good work man!

The main thing I got from this video is that I was right to stop engaging with HT groups on Facebook.

Thank you this was very informative. Is. Logical extension to this line of thought that we should have a center rear speaker as well?

Great video! Your focus was more on the height speakers, but what do you think about the main bed layer? Shouldn't our 5/7 bed layer speakers be setup in a box format as well than instead of what dolby recommends? I've never understood why our rear or surround speakers should be so close to us in atmos. I think the ideal is a square box room, you sit in the middle. Speakers in every corner, both at ear level and height level. Then a main center channel.

Great information Techno Dad.I'm still using The Yamaha Rx 583 for 5.2.2. I went 4 channel in 1973/4 with 8 track tapes, anyone remember the 4 channel FM broadcast You needed 2 FM tuners.

Honestly, Channa is 💯 correct on this...he is basically describing an Auro3D setup. It's better than the Dolby recommendation and still works fine for Atmos.

You is da man TD. I will remember this stuff when I get my room.

I had a friend telling me about this concept while I was upgrading from a .2 overhead to a .4 and I thought it was very interesting. I then found your channel and downloaded your test video that had sounds going straight up and down from the base speakers and it clicked for me. I know have all four overhead speakers directly above the front and surround speakers and it sounds fantastic. Thanks for pushing this topic, it makes perfect sense. Now I have to redo my living room....half the fun right? Right guys?

do you recommend the rear heights be directly above the rear surrounds or in the corner? I currently have two in wall rear surrounds that are at ear level hieght and 5 ft between them.. should the rears heights also be directly above the, and 5 ft apart or should they pushed more into the corners?

performance. but just to say - i followed the prime elevation manual where it said to "place ypur height speakers as close as possible to the ceiling" and this is where your atmos tester revealed the defects. due to them being close to the ceiling AND the sidewalls (like in the DAR) they caused a lot of echo and completely messed up the directionality of the sound. so i moved it down and closer together - i had my wife hold the speaker up while listening to your tester and then decided on the position. so i'd say yes on this proposal as a general guide but always.. test first!

I completely agree. I am in the process of building my home theater, but currently I only have a 6.1 receiver and separate amps. Often I even turn off my center because I have such an amazing phantom center. This absolute proof that the same can happen with the height speakers. Heck even with just my two front towers playing some of the 8D tracks on KZfaq, I can even hear height. Whenever I am ready to buy a new receiver, I will have pre-wires for ceiling speakers, but i will probably experiment with speaker placement and settings. Will you have any more info for settings/adjustments for the height channels? Or is it as intuitive as I'm thinking...? Thanks!

Great effort making the video, but after trying both options with front and rear heights, and in ceiling I prefer the home theater gurus option with in ceiling speakers. To me it was a big difference. 8’ wasn’t tall enough to noticed a good separation between base layer and front and rear height

Performance. Just 1 question. What about the angels everybody is talking about. Or just put the speakers on the richt spot and angle them to main listingposition?

Great video - thanks for the thought provoking content. I have a question. Does the Dolby renderer send different signals to your speakers based on whether you tell your AVR you are using height speakers or top speakers? In other words will a top front right speaker get different signals sent to it by the renderer than a front height right speaker? 🤔

I enjoyed this video. What are your thoughts on ceiling height? I totally get your thinking regarding setting up a theater like the dolby renderer. However, my ceiling is only 7.5ft heigh.

Respect. Definitely something to try and see if the difference is big. To be clear, just for the bed layer, you'd move surround to the middle of room and surround back to the back corners?

So I have a 7.3.4... where do I put the front height channel speakers? in the front or in the middle.. currently they are in the middle..

Moved speakers but moved them practically back where i had them..unless I am not fully understanding but I felt that the atmos speakers sound terrible in line with the surrounds. Having too close to the line of the surrounds you are hearing almost zero channel separation this way. Having the back atmos speakers literally above where you sit sounds absolutely incredible.

I would love to have a 7.1.6 system. Unfortunately my receiver can only handle 7.1.4 with an extra amp. Will be a while before I can get all the speakers but will see how it turns out at some point.

Performance all day every day. Attractive theater style seating combined with awesome lighting definitely grasps my attention. But beautiful video on a large screen combined with immersive sound is what blows me away.

So where do you position the middle height speakers when the side surrounds are adjacent to the seating position. The seating position is 1/3 from the back wall. Do you colocated them with the side surrounds or in the middle of the room?

Hey T.D. What crossover point is recommended for atmos? Is there much bass, or even mid bass? Would having an 8” compared to a 6.5” make a huge difference? Maybe you could make a video discussing these.

I am building a dedicated room in my custom home build. The room will be 18' wide and 23'-6" deep with 10' ceiling. I will have second row seating which will be 15" above the first row. I plan on a 11.4.6 setup using JBL Synthesis in-wall speakers and a Trinnov Altitude processor. How would you recommend placing the 6 ceiling mounted Atmos speakers in this type of configuration?

7.1.6 is the best, but when the space is limited you go with 5.1.4... in the case of limited funds and the 5.1.2 is the only option is bette ti have the 2 atmos channels as front high or on top of the main sitting position?

Have you played much with the top / front height settings of speakers in the AVR? What you’re describing about 11mins in seems like a processor mapping thing? (With the helicopter going up)

I remember the old days like circuit city and the wiz Bose came out with those metal stands with sorround backs way up high

In a 5.1.4 system when the seating is against the wall. For my .4 I clearly want front height, but does it make sense to put the 2nd set above the surrounds or behind the seating position in the corner of the wall to be rear height? (Spacing maybe 6" behind seat).

Watch the fireballs scene of Dungeons and Dragons near the end and tell me if it sounds right when the fireball hits the building up on the top left there.

So would you say that the speaker layout for Dolby Atmos should be closer to Auro3D with speaker placement in corners facing down at 45°? Should they also be angled towards the listening position on the sidewalls and corners? Would like your input on that. I've been mulling over my Heights for a while now and looking for advice on where to put them and how best to proceed. I've always appreciated your no-nonsense input on performance versus aesthetic versus angles and following charts. Thanks, Techno Dad!

This video was the icing on the cake, after much research this video allowed me to put it all "together". BUT, not in the way you may think. I was about to drop $10,000 and redo my just awesome man cave/home theatre (Paradign/SVS/Onkyo/REW) with new speakers/AVR so I can have Dolby Atmos!. You just saved me $10,000, as I have decided to do nothing and instead enjoy what I have :). I have too many issues with room layout/doors/walkway etc. to ever ever get a 7.3.6 system (currently I run 5.3) which I have come to realize is the only way to achieve what a guy like me will want. So net net I will do nothing, but thanks so much as the Dolby renderer you showed helped me understand the difference between a guitar coming out of one speaker vs a helicopter taking off and moving through the room.

Perfect explanation!

Do you think placing the front and rear height speakers in the corners is more important than keeping them equidistant to the MLP? Also, if they are down firing in ceiling speakers and not aiming at the MLP, does that affect your findings or not?

Hey techno dad, so does this mean I should stick my rears in the corners of the room? Or do I just line up my rears with my front stage and basically put them across from wherever my left and right front speakers are?

Fantastic insite MR. T. D. Thanknyou! 😊 Q: what if the Atmos track in the movie is Not created to spec meaning objects poorly Placed? Though your Setup is calibrated correctly? 😮

Thank you for your insights and the info. Now, my Denon is a 7.4.4 capable unit. My 4 height speakers are in ceiling coaxials put into acoustic tiles and are located closer to my seating position so I'm located between the square below them. Should I move the front heights to the top of the front mains and the other pair of rear heights on top of the rear surrounds, since I do not have provisions for a 3rd pair of height speakers? Thanks for your attention... My room is 23' x 13.5' x 9' all concrete with drop acoustic ceiling, one window and one door, just to give an idea and i am sitting around the center of the room...

The official atmos layout gives me original Dolby Surround vibes, like just put some speakers there to give you a vague sensation of height, and sound coming from above, and your suggestion is more of the placing sound accurately exactly where it's encoded to live.

Techno Dad I have a question, I’m using a 9.2.4 system now. Should I ditch the extra wide channels and use the extra heights instead for Movies and Games?

Oh man!!! I did exactly what you said not to do. Although I’m extremely limited with my living room space and vaulted ceilings, and open concept. I did a 7.2.4 and my 4 heights are midway towards front/rear to seating position

Hey Daddyman ...Does this make a difference when I use Auro 3D also ?

Makes a lot of sense.. my room is too small for surround back so I have 2 klipsche atmos on the ceiling but very slightly forward of my surrounds. (After watching your video I am honestly wondering what I was thinking not having them in line with the surrounds) I don't have any on the front but can hook up another 2. I am now going to move my 2 atmos speakers to directly above my surrounds and hooking up another 2 above my front left and right. Today I will move my surrounds but need to get more speaker wire before I hook up my front left and right atmos. I got the speakers on another system upstairs which I am not using atm so I just need to get more speaker wire. Makes a lot of sense. I honestly feel I learned something from this video. True hard to take in new information when I always think I know best. I been making music since mid 80's and into home cinema since late 90's...yes when you needed nicam stereo to get a dolby suround signal. :)

damn, I just left a comment and came back a few minutes later it was gone. Did I get deleted? If so why?

I'd one day like to do 7.1.2 but currently I'm just rocking 5.1.2. I have my atmos speakers a little in front of me (maybe 50 to 45 degrees?). I couldn't do 90 degrees sadly due to a ceiling fan but I can say your calibration tool kit helped a ton.

Hey Techno Dad, so should I do 45 degrees to the left and right speakers each based on your previous findings working with the atmos renderer?

My system is a 5.1 at ear level, but I think you're correct. Multi channel music is also making similar advances as they are moving the sound stage around the room for some arrangements.

Now question @TechnoDad Should the heights 6 of them be pointed/ tilted at mlp or just straight across the room im looking at the Monolith by Monoprice THX Certified Satellite Speakers six of them and will place them as high as i can over the six base layer speakers

Hi, just for the right understanding. My MLP is about a third of my room. Where should I put my side surrounds? 80°, 110° or exactly at 90°. In your layout the 6 atmos speaker are front/rear heights and top middles? So you have compatibility to Auro3d with VOC. Although the position for the top middles are side heights??? thx ☺

Agreed, but I would also include the center channel for a 7.x.7 configuration.

If my atmos receiver Only has 4 atmos channels Where do I place the speakers in the Ceiling

Hello sir, can you guide me little bit, I have one Yamaha home theater system rx v4a which comes with speakers and subwoofer also, I want to change my speakers to bookshelf one I don’t want the tall speakers, what will you recommend me !

Actually adding 2 more height speakers this weekend to go to 7.1.6. Hope they arrive on time. I can't watch your YT videos more without hearing "Through the room....moving around your room"

What's the benefit of the calibration disc compared to using Dirac or Audyessy MultiEQ-X?

Dumb question… Just to confirm, if you are doing a 5.1.4 setup you should do surround heights above your surround left and right speakers? Also, would a 5.1.6 work? There is no available back wall, but the ceiling does continue.

I agree with your assertion. I was also following Dolby Atmos specifications and wasn’t thrilled with the results. I’m missing the speakers I once had mounted top of my TV. But my receiver isn’t capable of producing the .6, only .4

Wonderful explanation with complete logic! Great Work TechnoDad . I am a Great Fan of yours. I live in India wish I could get a hand at your created work.

Nice video! Question would this also be applicable to DTS X content?

Hey Channa! Your video makes sense. I'm thinking the screen size compared to the room size is a factor, not so much the bed layer but the Atmos layer. I have a 100" screen, but my atmos speakers are out 2 to 3 feet past left/right of my screen. I may need to move my atmos speakers. For example, the atmos track for A Quiet Place when the moster moves down the basement stair case. The footsteps do not sound like they are coming from the top left of the screen, more like 2 feet out where i placed the speaker. So what I'm thinking is I'm going to have to move my atmos speakers in line with my screen because to me it just makes more sense. If I could fit a 150" to cover the wall then i think I would not have a problem. lol Great video Thanks man!

With multiple rows, the speakers at home should be just above ear level so it's not blocked. My surrounds are actually just below ear level and some sounds still sound like they're over my head from the side surrounds (HRTF in the recorded sounds affects placement too). Most of these mixes are designed for the movie theater and their surrounds tend to be considerably above ear level anyway. So this notion that Atmos needs speakers at or below ear level is erroneous. You want separation between layers, but the layers don't have to be exactly at ear level. You do generally want to keep front/rear lower layer speakers relatively consistent with each other. If possible, LCR mains should be behind an audibly transparent screen. If not, you can employ a "dialog lift" mixer (Yamaha builds the feature into its AVRs) to simulate it with TVs and the like as well.

Hey Channa! Man did I LOVE this video. I have always been and always will be a performance guy! After watching this video I think you make an AWESOME radio talk show host! Just another hat for Channa to wear! Have a great week! 😎

OMG that story about the object changing in height just made me realize...thanks! Now I got to rearrange my speakers. Sure some difference in height will work since we are not too sensitive to height differences in our hearing. But will for sure make the speakers more aligned to the same height. Right or wrong but I try to come as close to Dolby's recommendations as possible. And I try to mix both aesthetics and performance but aesthetics come slightly before performance since it's my living room also but if I were to have a dedicated theater performance would go first.

I love it!

What about for 5.1.2 ? Should i place my atmos as front heights?

Think it would be worth returning the refurb X3800H for a refurb X6700H to have the extra channels available as I build out my theater? I've got 5.1 with 4 speakers ready to go up for heights, using them as heights instead of tops would actually help maximize PJ screen size since they would be out of the way. Would you put a great base layer over any Atmos? Thanks!

Very good points. Another thing that supports your argument, look at the speakers that come with upfiring atmos speakers like the Klipsch. Those speakers are built right over the bed layer speaker.

Hmm, so yes, my back surround and sidesurrounds are not placed on ear level, why? Because it's my living room. Just not gonna happen. So it's not exactly how the artists intended it to be placed, but hey, it sounds 500x better than those goofy soundbars, and it's not the end of the world that your soundstage is some what lifted

Great talk I agree with you and for me performance first then aesthetics second.

amazing explanation !!!

Boom 💥 eye opener!

Honestly that whole helicopter thing showing up over your head when it’s literally in the front sound stage is correct. Watching the first A quiet place where the monster is at the top left front stage and about to walk down the basement steps seems like another great example 🤔 I will have to revisit that scene once I move all my speakers again. The chase never ends😂😂😂😂 Channa you are the man. Thanks for all your hard work and home theater wisdom! Matt

Sooooo... I do not have a dedicated room. My setup is in my living room, that opens up into my kitchen off to the side. My current AVR is only a 7 channel AVR. As of right now I only have 2 speakers for Atmos/Height. They are not on the ceiling yet. I have them sitting on my towers facing up. My main listening area is further back closer to the back wall and I have two couches along each side wall. Where do you recommend I put my two height speakers for the time being? Front stage up high? Mid way on ceiling or high wall? Or One front, one back middle ceiling? Or any other suggestion. Room is a rectangle with angled ceilings. I will be upgrading my AVR eventually to a 11 or 13 channel.

So if I understood correctly. I dont have to worry about the 30 degree or 45 degree angles, just place the height speakers exactly above the bed layer and I should have a wonderful Atmos, Auro experience?

The world is a sphere and Atmos is a cuboid. Got it. And hot damn, that extreme close-up STILL looked 4K crispy. Gotta love that FX3, baby! 😄

Performance Period!

I went with my room limitations. I finally was able to put my surround sound speakers and hide the wires through my attic. I put them on my mantle fireplace. Yes they are a bit high but would be blocked by 2 lazyboy chairs in my rectangle shaped small living room. My new klipsch book shelve speakers sound great. I haven’t even run Dirac live on my new pioneer elite lsx 305 yet.

I've read that in an acoustically well treated room with multiple seats, dipole speakers are good as right and left surrounds. How true is this? Please guide.

Hey, Techno Dad, great video! I have no experience with Atmos at all and this episode brought me a lot closer to understanding, and almost answering my own questions. In this video you said you were discussing dedicated theater rooms and not living rooms because the latter had too many compromises. Amen! But before I turn off the lights and go home on this idea, I thought I’d ask your thoughts on my specific scenario and if decoding Atmos is “worth the squeeze” as they say. I have a 11x15x8 foot living room/ theater room with a ceiling mounted projector on the long end with the drop down screen 2ft from the front with an OLED tv about a foot from the wall, and a well calibrated 5.1 system using Paradigm reference LCR and paradigm in-wall surrounds in the back. The seating positions are on two couches along both sides of the 15’ wall, with the “MLP” about 40” from the rear wall. There is a row of three connected folding theater chairs from an old cinema along the back wall but that position is what it is. I just upgraded to a Yamaha A4A that can support 7.x.2 and decode Dolby Atmos. Right now I have it set up as bi-amped Left and Right 5.1. I could ceiling mount two paradigm CI Pro P80-A v2 or similar as the .2 Atmos heights… if it was worth it. In your experience, would it be worth all the drywall dust, fiberglass rash, and money, or do you think it’s a do it right or not at all situation? Do you think I’d gain anything resembling Atmos, or would I be better off sticking with an articulate 5.1 setup? Any thoughts would be deeply appreciated! Thanks!!

I appreciate you Channa! Excellent information, thanks SO MUCH! I'm doing a 7.8.6 setup with Trinnov as per your spec

That's great if you have 7.1.6 but many systems are 7.1.4 so how do you set that where you can't go one for one straight up and down?

Is the height configuration different for Auro 3D?

Awesome video as always Channa!! I think this pretty much answers the long debate of Atmos placement!!

moving too new house it's all in storage! thinking of building a shed room like i saw on u tube. theres not a room thats quite what i need shape wise ! i'm hearing my movies and stuff on a klipsch home theater system right now! sounds good though too me!!!

I have a 7.2.6 system. The 6 height speakers are connected to a separate 6 channel emotiva basx amp. When I turn off the bed layer speakers and listen to just the height speakers, there really isn't much coming from the heights. I watched the bombing scene from Midway just before this reply and there are plenty of bullets whizzing by and another plane passing overhead but for the majority of the scene the heights are silent. Knowing what I know now, I think I can get the same results with a 7.2.4 system using in ceiling speakers that are located slightly in front and behind of my primary listening position. Don't skimp on side surround speakers, there is plenty of sound coming from these bed level speakers.

I go for performance. I don't mind seeing the speakers in my Living/Media Room. I just don't want a big screen & a projector. I think any Living Room could benefit from Acoustic Treatments. I will eventually get a Micro LED Display to put into my room with JTR Speakers system throughout.

So I brought my copy of SACT to my friend's house. He's got 7.2.4. Mid and rear heights. He hates me now, confirmed he needs to go to .6 and get those front heights, which also means an upgrade to his AV receiver. BTW SACT is a great upgrade tool. The panning test of the bed layer, makes me want side surrounds.

I'm probably wrong, but I think for rear speakers I don't like direct radiating speakers but I like Dipole/Bipole speakers. Atmos speakers can be mounted at ceiling on upper wall with a slant speaker.

You are absolutely spot on! Loved the video. Very experienced. It’s very true everything you have just said. I concur because I have the exact same experience as you . There is way too many videos out there, a lot of it doesn’t make sense.. lol

I think this concept works great but only if you have 10 to 12-ft ceilings. Someone like me with Atmos at 8 and 1/2 ft. It's hard to get enough separation between the side surrounds and if I were to have Atmos channels directly above on the walls.

Good video, so I want to go to atmos from 5.1. Four height channels is enough right? Thanks from Australia

Yeah, I noticed the same thing you mentioned about the helicopter when watching Mission Impossible Fallout with the chopper scene. It sounded more realistic on my Auro 3D bedroom setup that has the front atmos speakers right above the front left and right versus my living room setup which has them in the front center.

Ok, so the front and rear beds + heights should ideally be horizontally spread 45° from the MLP, and you commented that IF you were doing angles you’d put them at 30° above MLP, directly above the bed level speakers. Is that right? But WOULD you do the 30° angles or would you just have downfiring height speakers? I’m always getting hung up on the type of heights to use.

DUDE. The way you put this exactly answers my biggest concern and the one area you had me hung up. Great job, and thank you for this. My issue was basically the disconnect with disappearing speakers, localization of an object, and how the two can work against eachother in terms of object placement on a 4 speaker overhead setup. This is all mitigated with mirroring bed layer. I dont know why but I'm recalling things youve said in the past and its making perfect sense. The lack of cohesiveness in a 5 bed layer setup in my room was always my reasoning for a tighter layout overhead. Its hard to just sum up so I'll stop. At this point, I feel pretty confident in making some changes to my room. I applaud your persistence. It seems to me that your follow through on this is motivated by the fact it will help so many of us and improve our experience. Thank you, thank you, thank you!