So true

Foolish thoughts

Narcissists!

Thank you so much. Hughes never changed either. He was never monogamous. I bet he secretly enjoyed his reputation as a charismatic , "dangerous" womaniser too and used it to hook up with other women.

Like Oliver Reed who moved the air it's on his tombstone it would be naive to think that when you have a man like Ted Hughes like this in your life you have a tiger by the tail.

Thank you for this. What a lovely comment to leave on this video!

All tragic,Sylvia, Alyssa Weevil, Nicholas Plath , her son, all suicides, and Alyssa killed her child along with her. Ghastly. Mr. Hughes has something to answer for in his treatment of women

I have to take issue with your assessment; Plath was a borderline personality grandiose narcissist; supremely talented, perhaps a genius, but completely unhinged. For me, she was ancient mythopeoic force, like a Fate or a Sibyl, but never in a million years a wonderful person, quite the opposite; she attacked everyone around her, her father, her mother, Ted Hughes her husband, her in-laws, and almost certainly her infant two children in her diaries which Hughes chose to destory in order to preserve the integrity of her literary talent. Nothing and no-one was ever good enough for her. For me, she resembles Arthur Schopenhauer, the nineteenth century Germany philosopher, and Francis Bacon, the twentieth century English painter, (not the seventeenth century essayist and thinker); all three were sociopaths. I revere and admire the achievement of Plath's poetry, but in respect of personality style, I am sorry, you just have it all wrong.

@@supergrahamg I understand, I have dived deeper into these aspects of her personality and indeed she wasn't easy to deal with. but that's due to her mental health. she was very troubled and not properly medicated, so i personally wouldn't blame her for being the way she was. of course being mentally ill is not a justification for being a horrible person, but i understand it is not easy. i myself have issues and i can't imagine who i would be without my meds. i still admire Sylvia, though, maybe because i see something of myself in her. i understand why you hold such view, but i still choose to admire her talent nonetheless.

@@supergrahamg Just finished the recent bio on her, and it mostly confirms what you say, she was quite disturbed all her life. I could never grasp the hatred she had for her mother either, based on what I'd read.

Agreed!

Huh? She sounds completely British, nothing like her mother.

He sounds nothing like Burton. Burton is welsh not Yorkshire

@@mrdarren1045 Timbre of voice, baritone, yes he does sound similar to Burton...LOL..

In fact I think Burton's voice, and possibly himself, is in the ad for Sea Witch hair dye that Assia wrote, a short clip of which is in this programme. Yes, Frieda is lovely in these interviews, I'd like to hug her too.

Unfortunately, it took away souch more be and had ripple effects

Me too … that said he beat her and she miscarried her first child. I wouldn’t ever say “What people don’t understand, he was NICE TO HER” lol. That said, I’m starting to get closer to his work … close enough to read at least. 🥰

You're very welcome, my friend

Same !

So have I - wrote to the Ted Hughes society a year or two ago and they told me it was only available for study on special permission. Such a joy to see it come up, not just a clip!

Me too.

You are very welcome!

What a lovely comment! Much appreciated

Ted would have read alot into that.

Yes, it's as if she unites the best of both her parents in herself.

I was struck by how much her voice is like Sylvia's.

HUH? Frieda is ordinary.

Thanks. Sadly Hassell passed away a few months ago.

@@jejesus I didn't realise. That's terrible.

changed Sylvia's life arc as well

@@kristofthibaud8491 It could be argued that Ted Hughes turned Sylvia into the poet she became. Without his influence she wouldn't have written much of her greatest work. And I honestly believe that Plath would have killed herself regardless of meeting Hughes. She'd attempted it several times throughout her life beforehand.

Ted Hughes himself acknowledged that he would be be unknown off fishing somewhere in Australia and not a poet laureate If not for Sylvia pushing him so hard. I have to agree with him.

And yes she had attempted suicide but hadn't followed through. That could have been the case here too if Ted wasn't such a callous man while he cheated and toyed with her emotions.

@@belladonna5904 Wrong. She attempted suicide and was saved because she took too many pills and vomited them up. It wasn't a case of she backed out at the last minute. She suffered from severe mental illness and would have been very difficult to live with. She completely destroyed his work on a number of occasions. Hughes isn't conventionally blameless but he also isn't ultimately responsible. I do agree with you though that she helped him as much as he helped her in finding their voices and developing their talent.

Tim Dowling interesting, wait are you a columnist for the Guardian Weekend Mag or something lol

that is the same day she choose to die

yes

No, I noticed too. October 28 vs October 27, Plath's birthday

Thanks 😊

And I concur wholeheartedly ;)

Absolutely - pure hatred without any semblance of understanding. Just listen to Frieda talking about her father - if anyone knows the truth of the man, she does. if you doubt that - just watch the last few seconds of this documentary. Morgan will be unknown in a few years. The best possible epitaph for her will be 'Who?'

@@alansturgess1324 I have actually tried reading Morgan's work. Frankly, she is among the worst poets I've ever read. Yes, she deserves obscurity.

@@HaFannyHa Can you recommend a typical piece of writing by her? I found her bile-spitting misandry so full of personal prejudice that I never thought to see what she considers to be poetry. Can you suggest something?

@@alansturgess1324 You have explained the problem with Morgan perfectly! I wouldn't direct anyone to read her 'work'. I'm sure you can find examples through Google, including 'Arraignment', her attack on Hughes. My god, she had no heart. She would've hurt Frieda and Nick, Aurelia and Warren Plath and others in their families, as well as Ted Hughes. The 'Monster' collection wasn't published in Britain, but I still think Hughes should've sued her for defamation. No, I don't recommend Morgan at all.

Such a great parent she gassed herself in the house with her kids there. Then left them forever. What a mother. Is that called feminism?

@@mrdarren1045 I can't believe this is an actual comment, omg. Imagine being this stupid

@@mrdarren1045 it is called clinical depression. Get educated about mental illness and don't judge

It was still horrific and morally wrong. That's like saying well he's into 12 year girls but hey its a mental illness, so lets be a pluralistic retard about it. Liberal drivel. It was wrong whatever way you look at it.

@@mrdarren1045 Ted Hughes Killed Sylvia Plath

Framing a marriage and artistic partnership in terms team him/her is unhelpful. They were both complicated and flawed individuals who had their equal share of frailties and made mistakes. The only person who could have saved Sylvia was herself.

@@SisterJanet Maybe that's correct, but Hughes' treatment of Plath certainly did not help the situation I'm sure.

What did they get wrong about Plath? Or was it not inaccurate, but only unappealing to you?

@@kurisensei I'm not saying the things they said were necessarily incorrect, but it feels as if Hughes' treatment of Plath is almost justified by the creators of this documentary. Just my own opinion, but I feel Hughes' deplorable treatment of Plath (infidelity, lies, physical abuse) is not shown in the most faithful light in this doc, and Hughes is almost let off the hook by the makers when it came to taking responsibility for this. I understand its a documentary about Hughes' life, but I feel there is a strong bias towards showing Hughes' positive attributes instead of his negative ones.

@@LouisHurler1 the comment saying Path should understand he couldn't end his extra marital affair, that's the most upsetting to me

I completely agree with that. I found it to be a bit of a nuisance as well.

@Nicole V We don’t know that they were burned; Hughes said the journals “disappeared, and may turn up.” So that dangles a carrot: perhaps the journals are hidden among his papers at Emory for later release?

he did it to protect his children; read the poetry for her toxic assessment of motherhood

@@supergrahamg He did it to cover his own abusive ass.

None of our business!

I think the closest we will ever get to knowing the contents of Plath’s last journal are the explosive letters she sent to Ruth Beutscher that Hughes had no control over and which turned up out of the blue and which were included in the second volume of Plath’s collected letters. Apparently Hughes told Plath that their children should never have been born, and I think this is what Hughes didn’t want his children to read in case it damaged his relationship with them.

web.archive.org/web/20090326004525/newsminer.com/news/2009/mar/23/nicholas-hughes-son-major-poets-emerged-prominent-/ He didn't think it was a good idea to have his life and family connections written about. He deserved his privacy.

Because it's irrelevant (N. passed away long after his parents) and seeing as he was an extremely private man I've no doubt his sister would have insisted the programme makers respect that and exempt him from discussion.

Because this isn't a documentary about the Hughes family. It's about Ted's life - Frieda is only there to tell what she knew about him in life. Nicholas, tragically, is not. But to include him, in my mind, would seem somewhat ghoulish, as it isn't relevant to the subject: Ted and poetry.

@@happymaskedguy1943 then Sylvia and all other parties should be excluded as well

Plath was an extraordinary poet, Hughes a fine one*

@walkfromthewaves there are a couple of songs listed in the description. Maybe one of those?? Good luck! Hope you find it.😊

@@nancyrose8028 nope, but thanks anyway

@@kurisensei 😃

The opening music is called "Erosion of Mediocrity" by Manchester duo "Demdike Stare". I have finally discovered all the various titles featured on the soundtrack to this film so let me know if i can help any further (i've made a playlist on spotify).

@@pianobanter that's the one! Thank you very much indeed. I've found it on Spotify

True. Thank you

There does not need to be two camps; I see the merit in both oeuvres; Plath appeals to me more because she was troubled, something Greek, sybylline, about her. And you cannot argue with the authenticity of that, because of the suicide. But give poor Ted a break; from the getgo, he was in over his head. Pathology will always have its day......

You're right. The night of her suicide, Plath went to extraordinary lengths to protect her children from the gas.

@@Mark-Smeaton I heard Assia thought her daughter would be treated by people as second class child of Ted Hughes but I don't think that's an excuse. If she wanted her child to be well, then give her for adoption to any good relative or friend she had, shouldn't she? I think this is where the depth of the wisdom of both women had differs from one another. I guess Plath being a poet who used her feelings herself could feel pain so her level of wisdom is deep, while Assia was good in her creative side like an advertisement she designed gained success didn't really have that level of deep thinking.

@@missplumtree958 It's so sad in both cases - but as you say, there is a huge difference which speaks volumes about both women. For example, there is an unsent letter by Ted Hughes somewhere in his archive (apologies that I don't have the citation handy but I swear I have read this). I think it was to Jacqueline Rose and it was about Plath's journal - the one he infamously burnt because he claimed it would hurt her children. Hughes wrote that the only thing that Sylvia wrote that would have hurt her children was ONE sentence, on the very last page. He did not elaborate but in conjunction with her last poem, "Edge", I suspect that she wrote something to the effect that she was going to kill her children also - or maybe she just contemplated it or alluded to it. However (thank God), when push came to shove, Plath went to painstaking lengths to ensure the safety of her children. She didn't just stop at taping their door but also used towels and clothes, leaving their window open. Her body was still warm too, indicating she hadn't died until about 6AM - probably because she knew a nurse was arriving at 8AM. It was, I think, very carefully timed. Knowing as much as I do about suicide (my own mother took her life), these were quite impressive acts of maternal love because most people who kill themselves are in such profound states of apathy and ambivalence. I'm not sure that many people would go to that much effort. As for Assia, she asked both her sister and the novelist Fay Weldon to take care of Shura if anything happened to her but I don't think Assia liked other women much. I seem to remember she wrote "I couldn't stand some bloody woman" raising Shura. Coupled with that, Hughes apparently treated Shura very indifferently compared to Frieda and Nicholas (especially Frieda, who felt the need to write an article asserting that Shura was not even Hughes' daughter a few years ago). Maybe Assia thought Shura would be better off dead too but I don't know. Killing a child is a very difficult thing to see as an act of benevolence. I did feel pity for Assia after reading that biography of her published some years ago but I also read a study of parents who kill their children as well as themselves - the author argues that contrary to popular belief, parents usually DON'T kill children as a delusional act of mercy. It's a retaliatory act of vengeance - don't ask me how the author arrived at this conclusion but it was by a supposed expert in the field. Horrific subject, either way!

@@Mark-Smeaton what does bloody mean in Assia's sentence? Did she mean both women are bad people or something similar? Or rather she doesn't want any woman good or bad to take care of Shura? I had suicidal thoughts too when I was a teenager but k i ll ing others along with my suicide never occurred to me.

@@missplumtree958 @Miss Plumtree "Some bloody woman" in that sentence simply means , "Some f*cking stupid/annoying woman". Bloody was a very old school British/Australian word. Assia didn't seem to be referring to any woman in particular. Secondly, sorry for writing such insanely long, rambling posts. I'm recovering from numerous injuries atm and forced to spend a lot of time in bed. I have way too much time on my hands. lol

yes, quite possibly; however, shame about the Shakespeare motherlode obsession, akin to Yeats' pre-occupation with the occult. I believe half a dozen of Hughes' poems are remarkable, will stand the test of time. I salute you, Ted, valediction inscribed in granite gold leaf, on Dartmoor....a fitting epitaph in my opinion

Aidan Convery Philip Larkin would have known the answer to this question, probably.

@@21stCen Hull did not adversely affect Larkin's poetry .

Did you watch the documentary?

I agree

They are inextricably linked, interwoven. It would be quite false to expunge Ted from Sylvia's story

But without Sylvia, there's no story to tell.

Let's not hide truth As husband he was lousy constant affairs Cannot leave out two women's suicides and sons suicide very sad When young very handsome narc women drawn to

Actually, Frieda is a very good poet (try her collections '45' or 'Stonepicker'). She has suffered from the expectation hoisted on her simply because of who her parents were. I have such respect for Frieda.

Please let people be their own people.

zip reeper Hahahaha

well, he got that right, for sure

And you can prove that can you?

Yeah wasn't he "married" to carol orchard then?

@@gardengirl7446 yep

Garden Girl yes.

I agree. I also think it's somewhat shocking he invited her to sleep in his bed (presumably alone and just for rest, but still...not very professional?)

@@ktnworth Poetry is not a profession; what a terrible line. But it worked. Have no heroes.......

Why wouldn't they be

Very sexist.

The Assia death is the most tragic.

The common denominator here is Ted..

A bit like what happened with led zeppelin after jimmy page's dabbling with the occult.

Women in the documentary are trying their best to protect him. He is narcissistic and become old with the years he stolen from his wives.

Ted Hughes is one of the finest and influential poets in the English language . Sylvia was a brilliant but complicated and damaged woman who latterly became impossible to live with. Reducing her to mere victim at the hands of her husband and his partner insults her agency as both artist and woman. She would despise you for thinking so.

Hughes was a far superior poet to Plath. And seeing their daughter, I'm glad Hughes remained strong and raised her well, not abandoning her like her mother did.

I agree

Stopped reading at “okay poet” - was one of the best to ever do it give over

oh get knotted and keep your bible bashing to yourself. not suitable here.

PoppyB2011 They continued to seek him out, successfully, long after his marriage to a woman who was not an intellectual. Mr Hughes surely had some volition.

Your level of intellect doesn't correlate with your mental health. Sylvia and Assia were both brilliant women but their downfall was the times they were living in.. In the 1950s, ignorance about mental health meant that there was extreme stigma and fear surrounding it. People with mental health problems were considered 'lunatics' and 'defective' and were sent off to asylums. 'Insanity' was thought to be incurable and there was no incentive to treat it. I mean, Sylvia was forced to take electric shock therapy for her depression! The 50s were tough on women and the mentally ill.

leftism at its finest and its ironic they were off the ''tribe''. Ted was an English Mystic.

It's just plain bad writing as well. His penultimate book Tales from Ovid is far better.

He does not need cancellation myopia becomes you . He was a force of Nature . Free Speech means exactly that.

Woke morons who talk about cancelling ppl need cancelling. They are the death of free speech.

Cancelling? Evil? Don't be ludicrous. What a bland, sanitised, stagnant world you would want to live in. Besides, some of the worst works of art ever created has been made by very nice people.

1000%

If you say so

Narcissists don’t kill themselves. Plath most likely had Borderline Personality not narcissistic.

No, they use words because they feel the need to create. I'm willing to bet that you're imaginatively bankrupt.

Ted Hughes was notoriously private. Did you actually watch the documentary?

@@melissanicholson1913 Okay, that's one hell of a claim. So you're saying that narcissists don't commit suicide?? Provide evidence please.

and you, sir, sound like a self-regarding, ignorant ass