I have a MFJ-1917 permanently installed in Arizona. Just above each joint, I drilled a tiny hole and put the smallest screw I could get at Ace Hardware. Each section rests on the screw and keeps it from collapsing, but still allows flexing in the wind. Then, I painted it all with a nice tan color. My previous install was up 8 years before I had a failure. Current pole has been up for 2+ years.

Although I wouldn't need this project, you experience shared regarding glues is very useful for a lot of projects. I learnt a lot from your information today, nice one!

Glad I'm not the only one who makes old man noises when getting a full extension on the sections.

This is why I wasn't scared to get in on the first 50 of the 12.4 you just keep playing with your stuff and get it better and better when some people are happy with just good enough great stuff as always Callum cheers from across the pond W9US

As some one who uses poles for fishing. Two different types of poles. It's useful to note that there're external and internal poles. IE poles that each varying size section extending from the smallest section upwards internally and those that extend by joining each varying size section over each other from the exterior. Each have differing engineering advantages. Push up is my preference as each section is held tight internally by the next section and is a tight friction fit, and as each section wears a little it can still be pulled 'up' tighter and any leaning pressure on the pole is taken up 'internally' by the next larger section. A put over system, puts 'external' strain on each section at its point of contact with each reducing section, and this type is prone to splitting on the exterior walls when the pole is bent over in wind, UNLESS IT IS GUYED AT THE APPROPRIATE HEIGHTS OF THE POLE. Just saying

Good job Callum!.

On one of my verticals I used glue-lined heatshink tubing on the outside of the pole-to-pole steps, about 6 inch pieces. Been up for many years without a problem. Quick and easy to do.

Great video Cal. My DX Commander (using the original tape, clamps and rubber tube has been up two years so far - perfect it still is). Mark, 2E0MSR

I had a 12mtr spiderpole that did break at 7mtr. I cut off the damaged parts so the two parts from one section could slide in lock. I had to shorten them to manage this. In same time I wanted a stiffer top section so I lowered the top into the next lower section. All those changes was glued with red rapid araldite. The pole is still collapsable , but for the time being it is a fixed 10mtr copy of DXcommander with 160m/80m inv.L from 8mtr hight and 4 more elements alongside the pole to make it multiband. 73's de LA1PHA

Callum, great work. I've spent a life working with all kinds of these adhesives and bonding agents. Good stuff that molecular bonds to surfaces. It all depends on the strength of the factory finish to the structure of the mast. It's only as strong as that unless you sand it down. You are right about working time, but beyond an hour it's not much stronger. UV curing epoxy is brutally strong.

Just as in life as in Ham radio the excitement is in the Journey. Its no fun if you cannot experiment! Cheers to you 73!

Having played with model aircraft for so many years. There as generally three types of “super glue” fast, medium, and slow. Super glue is Cyanoacrylate we use the term “CA”. Like you have there a chemical CA kicker they dries it instantly. As you can imagine fast bonds instantly and will wick into surfaces if porous like balsa. , slow gives you time to pin, clamp, or otherwise position and is generally thought to be stronger. Slow is also used in filling gaps. They also have very short strand fiberglass almost like dust that can be mixed with those or epoxy that makes and incredible bond. BYW Acetone will dissolve CA.

Always advancing and improving.👍

Really enjoy your vids. Great ideas. Heard you 10 meters a few weeks ago. Take care. KO4NF, Mike.

For the money you can't go far wrong with these poles. Mine has been strapped to a fence post, with no guy lines for around 4 months bent like a banana holding up an inverted-v. High winds, rain, freezing temps, sun and thing is still standing strong.

We have similar two part glues in the US. Often used to bond car mirrors to windshields, where the glue and accelerator both must be applied and the cure is almost instant. I think Loctite used to make several of these.

My Classic is up without problems from early 2020 ;) Only with hose clamps ;) I repaired it after a storm who have broken the pole in the middle, but then... 3years up with no maintenance!

Looks good. I had been thinking of fibreglass resin and a wrap of fibreglass tape externally but your way looks a lot easier ! I fibreglassed a couple of reinforcement sections on a squid pole to strengthen it right where I mount it; worked well. Perhaps try a small paintbrush instead of the cable tie, I use a sacrificial paint brush for fibreglassing and you can get the resin on quickly and evenly.

I extended all of the segments FIRST and THEN applied a bead of JBWeld on each joint. Requires a hacksaw to collapse the mast now

I wonder how the CA and the tube holds up after a year or two at least of being outside exposed. I can say after a year and a few months of my dx commander classic 'permament' install with self amlamanting tape covered by super33+ and a zip tie it's held up well to 50+mph winds, being rained on a ton, frozen and baking in the heat + it has the 80m ele installed so that abuses the pole a bit too, with its near constant lean or the trees tugging at the pole via the wire lol. (CT near the coast USA). Great idea!

Nice job bro! I bet it works out great! I thought I was the only one who used cable ties other than what they were intended for...ha ha ...73

I don't know if you can get on your side of the pond but the company (hobby shop) I work for recommends Bob Smith Industries IC-2000 for installing our titanium ends in carbon fiber tubes for push rods. I is used in the golf industry for putting carbon fiber shafts in titanium golf club heads. It contains carbon and a rubberizer in a heavy viscosity CA (Cyanoacrylate) adhesive.

I used the same type of system that is used to tie eyes to fishing rods for the top few sections of my pole. I just used a much heavier waxed twine (the waxed twine that is used for sewing leather work). After doing the binding over the sections where rods meet, I further rub the twine with beeswax and heat with a lighter to melt beeswax into twine to create a watertight seal. I use beeswax for a lot of water sealing applications. Yes, might be ancient technology but I still find it effective 🙂

Great video Callum. Not too sure I would want to do this rather you than me mate. I am still saving for the 10m portable dx pole. Motters M7TRS 73 👍🏻

You can get superglue attached things apart with heat and a bit of percussive maintenance, as I have learned from a few machining channels on youtube. But I have no idea if the pole stands the kind of heat that is needed for the glue to come apart enough to get the pole to collapse again... [I've edited this comment a couple of times]

Just a random thing you might like to try, foaming resin. It may add significant strength for permanent installs. They used to use it in sills of rally cars to prevent them from kinking in a smash. The kinking of hollow structures like box sections or tubes is a definite failure mode. I do appreciate that holding a nebula upside down to fill it might be impractical.... something you might try with a spare section....

Thanks Callum! I am very interested in the long term results since I'm intending my Signature 12.4 to be up forever. I have no interest in taking down once it's up, unless I want to lay the entire antenna down for ice storms and the like. Of course, I'll extend the entire mast a few times before I use the glue. And I will go with the sealing tape and plastic hose clamps to double/triple seal eveything together. If it's not over-engineered than it's meant to fail.

I made a video short which may be of interest. Basically using stair grip tape at each section. This may be useful for semi permanent mounting as well permanent. Same concept

Typically one would use a polyurethane type (soft) glue to bond two hard substrates together such as fiberglass to fiberglass or carbon fiber to carbon fiber. CA glue works best on soft materials such as wood or your fingers. I will be most interested to see if this works long term. Thanks for the experimentation video.

More surface area covered - better resistance to shearing force. Tape for water resistance is a good idea..

Cal! Cal!... A disposable brush maybe?

Now for snow and water, is there a recommended way to raise the antenna? Mine swims on every thaw cycle or good rain.

I used some silicon putty tape that they use on cell tower coax to encase each section, then tape over them. Then used the clamps on top of it all. Nothing has come down. I dont want it ever coming down.

Hello Callum! Looking for an update on how well it is holding up. I have a classic that is subjected to temps from -35 to 40c on an annual basis. I was afraid to use hose clamps in a permanent install because I was afraid the pole would crack at that point in very cold temperatures. The wind is always blowing here, 3 wind farms within 30 miles. I am using electrical tape and large zip ties, and so far, no sections have collapsed, they have shortened up, and have required pulling back out a few times. I'm hopeful that your experiment will be successful, and I can keep my pole fully extended no matter the temperature.

If someone breaks a mast and cannot buy a replacement section they can sand the salvageable sections lower exterior to scuff off the gel coat, get a bit of fiberglass tape from the drywall section of the hardware store, superglue the fiberglass to the bottom of the salvaged section Go one wrap at a time because if you add too much fiberglass in one pass it will be very difficult to sand off, if this happens you might be better off taking a hacksaw to the section to remove the section you screwed up and starting anew. Use accelerator to fix it in place. Check the fit and add material by repeating the above steps or sand down the newly created widened base of that salvaged section after testing the fit to create the correct diameter, retest and when satisfied with the fit so that it will not slip out of the lower section when extending the mast. Salvage complete.I have a broken Spiderbeam mast, they dont sell replacement sections in the US only Europe. I must be honest, I did not think of this method until I started watching what Callum was up to and merely expounded upon his idea to create a new one. My wife was trying to toss the broken mast in the trash the other day and I stopped her, a good thing that I did. I just needed a catalyst to spark an idea...Now I might just try this later this week. I'm certain it will work and is better than tossing an otherwise serviceable mast in the trash.Everything has gotten insanely expensive here no thanks to Joe Biden's crappy economic policies. The man could not be a better saboteur of the USA if he was a Russian collaborator, funny that's what he claims the other guy to be. I always look at what someone does, not what they say to figure out what side of the plate they are batting from...

Yeah Callum let us know how the supper glue holds up long term. Great video. 73 Joe

A thought: A kit of glue lined heatshrink appropriate to each section size. Unless it degrades in UV I'd have thought the glue would both hold the sections and waterproof it, but with the advantage that it could be cut off if you moved house or something.

You could try having two small holes drilled in the ends. Then set the length and put quick setting glue in the holes to lock it in place. The glue should wick into the tight area.

Wrap your finger with waxed paper or cling wrap to spread crazy glue. The working times of slow cure glue that I have used in the past building Radio Control aircraft was 1.5-2 minutes. 24 hour cure is crazy. Once you hit it with the activation spray it sets instantly like a flash freeze. The slow cure is often the thicker gel type and fast set is usually a thin consistency. Things may have changed. I have never used 24 hour slow cure glue.Store crazy glue in an airtight container IN THE REFRIGERATOR. It lasts much longer and maintains its properties much longer this way.

A better idea for a permanently extended fiberglass mast the will not collapse or bend in the wind, is extending the mast fully. Then getting a can or two of "foam in a can" from your hardware store. This is used for filling in gaps in walls of buildings etc. Spray the foam inside until it come out the top end. It sets hard and quite quickly. Now you have a mast that will not collapse or bend, and does not change the weight much - foam is light

Have been thinking about something like this but didn't dare to. Maybe, one day I'll just do it. The pole here is permanent (and the top section did lower a little. Want to rebuild it as an original 4/6/10-40, omitting 80 as I have a different solution for that. I'll use the non-80 as listening as it won't pick up as much hash on 60/80/160 (tried that), but maybe I can add 60 instead of 80. So much options to choose from :)

Hi! In my experience, when superglue or CA glue flexes, the bond breaks. When you want a high strength bond with fiberglass, you should use the same product used when it was made. If you are unsure of what the original product was, then epoxy for fiberglass should be used.

Please keep us updated on how this works. If it does work please give us the name of a glue to use in the USA. My Bran New DX Commander is in the barn waiting for the weather to break so get assembled and put in the air. I hope never to take it down after I put it up! Also I wonder if you sell the poles separately? I would like to use one for wire antenna projects.

From the looks of it, you could use something more substantial as a spreader. Would a silicone spatula be better for spreading a thinner layer of jell? Once it cures will it just peal off of the silicone?

Thank you, Callum. Let us know how the experiment comes out. N0QFT

Dont really want permanent in case of a move; however, the plastic pipe clamps seem to be not gripping the smaller tube enough to prevent it from gradually shimmying down into the bigger tube. I think im going to pick up some metal hose clamps for the metal thread strength & the rubber tubing that seems to stick to the fiberglass better. My 12.4 slipped down at least a foot from the sections wiggling into each other between wind & the tension from the cords.

I have often wondered about Super Glue but always seem to glue my fingers together. Slow set seems a good idea. I also think the recommendation for taping the joints is good. Imagine some water getting in then freezing. Suppose that is the same for any installation though. Hope this works out. Be a good set up for the "new" self supporting pole?

Does the manufacturer have a recommended adhesive? Something that would actually bond the two surfaces chemically, like PVC pipe adhesive?

Only thing I have found that non nonsense adhesives is that they don’t like water and breaks down fairly quickly. I used it on some cable ties I had a few fail where the zipper goes through. . I put some of the Bob Smith Industries (BSI) “slow cure” and that been out in all weathers since Dec 21 and not failed. There is a UK website for them as well. Great adhesives and right price. M0ONM

My concern, living the the US Upper Midwest, is the impact of both very cold temperatures (-20F to -30F) and moderate long duration wind stress (20-30 MPH) for several days. Certain plastics and glues can get very brittle in that kind of extreme.

Interesting... I would think the glue will crack and lose its bond after a while under the influence of the wind bending the pole and heat/cold. BTW I use UV proof liquid rubber alot nowadays if I want things to be weatherproof. You could even use masking tape if you want it to look nice. Tip: you can get really high quality versions at marine shops for less money than what they sell at radio amateur shops.

Years ago I used to build motor homes for the tourist market. We had brand new Toyota hiace vans come in and we would plasma cut the roof off them and fit a fibreglass bubble roof on them. We used a stuff designed by NASA years ago called Sicaflex. Only took a couple hrs to set but when it cured you could lift the entire vehicle off the ground by the roof……. Immensely strong stuff. The only way to get the roof off would e to cut it off. Check out if ya want to have a telescopic pole to never come down. Cheers mate 👍🇦🇺🥃

The glue sounds like a Super Glue I found for plastics that Super glue usually doesn't work with. I use wood coffee stirs.

I am sure someone in the comments has already said, if not, acetone will break down CA-which is handy to know when you glue your fingers together like me 😉

I heatshrink wrapped mine on the joins 1 year later it still up and its got the 80M leg back to the house so it is under constant stress.

I drill two very small holes either side of an extended section pole and push a thin welding rod through - section can’t drop back down

If Callum gets bonded to the antenna, how will the impedance and takeoff angle be affected?

Thin bead of rtv........secures the pole and seals the gap from water........i actually put some in the pole before the final seating and then a bead on the gap. In south Florida and it has been through torrential rains and two hurricanes.......

I think west system epoxy 205 + 206 hardener ( slow one or even 209 which is extremely slow) would work better. I'm old aeromodelling guy and would youse superglue aka CA only for repairing the model on the field ( if scotch tape out of reach, of course) .

i would use an "acid brush" for applying it

If you get bored, try taking a cotton shoe lace or cotton twine, and liberally soaking a bit of it with crazy glue. The result will probably shock you. Best done in an empty room, or outdoors over pavement or gravel.

how do i get a DX commander here in Canada, Thanks..

I convert my failing telescoping poles into "forever" poles by roughing up the area and applying fibreglass gauze and resin.

I use araldite to do this and the pole is still up through all weathers 365 days a year since 2019.

Just for a sec at the start of the video - I thought you was going to try that idea on a 18m pole! lol..

Jubilee Glue ???

Jobs like spreading that glue are what I keep all the old toothbrushes for!

Cal, How about a pneumatic telescoping pole

HCL clamps? I bought some Jubilee clips for an aerial mast from a shop and they were no good, they stripped the thread off, made in Korea I think. Buy proper Jubille clips or maybe HCL but I don't know HCL. G4GHB.

Might have to try this on my 12.4 at the QTH.

Super glue isn't waterproof. I have 2 10m poles as masts in my garden glued with fiberglass finishing resin. No loss in length and been up 6 years now. I think there is more chance of the fiberglass of the pole failing from UV.

😂😂😂 Callum the super goo salesman.

I think I'd use a disposible brush to smear the glue

I would use a toothpick or a glue brush to put it on with.

You know those zip ties could hold a fabulous bundle of disposable glue brushes. Just sayin' 😂

My luck I'd get my face stuck to the pole. Scott KF0HRF

Lol 😆

Sum CA cyanoacrylate glues dissolved with mineral spirits or sum Rc hobbies ca makers sell Debond or uncure

I definitely won't do that-too much temptation to spread the glue with a finger. It would go wild If I liked to scratch that part of my back that does not have a noble name.

Looks expensive. My guess whoever is building one of these isn't running a Chinese special on the others end😁

Poles are fiber glass right? Why not use epoxy.... I used to work in a aircraft kit facility, epoxy bond will be much more stable than super glue. Just need to expose the fiber which it looks like it already is. Wipe with acetone or even just rubbing alcohol, then basically do the same thing you did with the glue

Get some acid brushes there cheap

BOB THE BUTCHER

I use shrink tubing with glue Krimpkous met lijm 73 PD4HW

Nice, I'm going to play devil's advocate and predict the superglue even the thick slow dry is brittle and over time with break away from the fiberglass and start to fail. Hopefully the joint is tight enought that it almost becomes an extension of the figerglass and therefore flexible, and proves me wrong. Great project Calum! You won't know till you try. de ki7cia