The only thing that stresses Kelsey is whether or not he’ll get free breakfast

I can speak from personal experience on this - I've been receiving treatment for anxiety and have been on a low-dose medication for the past 8 years with absolutely zero side-effects. I was working toward my PPL and was denied a medical certificate by the FAA specifically because of my treatment and medication. Even submitted an appeal to the to the Federal Air Surgeon along with a statement from my doctor confirming that I am perfectly stable with no side effects, and the FAA flat-out denied my certificate. Nevermind the fact that I have to take the exact same medical exam for my CDL to drive a semi in which I haul chemicals and explosives, but apparently I'm not qualified medically to fly a C172. EDIT - I guess what I'm saying is, there's an argument to be made that the FAA's strict guidelines while well-intended, do create an incentive for pilots or prospective pilots to hide their conditions for fear of disqualification, rather than encouraging people like me to seek help for a treatable, controllable condition.

I’m an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). While the FAA does make allowances for various medical conditions, called Special Issuances, they seem to have a problem with any mental health issue. If it is disclosed on your medical exam it triggers all sorts of requests and delays for additional information or exams. I recently had the FAA request a neuropsychologist exam on a pilot applicant which costs $5,000 up front. And is not covered by insurance as is the case with many of the tests they request because they are being done for the FAA and are not “medically necessary” which is generally a requirement for insurance coverage. I do worry about pilots not going to the doctor, fearing it will impact their livelihood. I think that is the point the aviation lawyer is making.

Last I heard, pilots are human beings. A LOT of human beings could benefit from therapy, but MOST of them don't want their own bosses to know all about it-I sure wouldn't, and my job security isn't even linked to whether or not I go. There IS a middle ground: there could be policy statements developed for therapists about under what conditions they must report the pilot's situation to the airlines.

I think you've missed the point on this. Mental health is complicated and most people that need therapy can still do their job perfectly well. If they think that going and getting therapy might end their career, then they won't get it and they will carry on working as their health gets worse which is where the risks come in.

I retired a few years ago after spending 38 years as a firefighter, one of the jobs that Kelsey believes is more stressful than being a commercial pilot. Until the very recent past, firefighters (and law enforcement and EMS) were looked at as people who should be able to "tough it out" and keep their feelings at bay. It was considered to be a sign of weakness to seek out mental health assistance, and it would negatively impact your job longevity, career progression, and eventually your personal life. First responders get their self-worth from their careers, and I'm sure pilots are much the same, so losing your job would be like having your identity taken away. Eventually, the fire service, after seeing years of increasing numbers of suicides, early disability retirements and claims, came to realize that mental health was too important to ignore, and certainly too important to stigmatize. Now, firefighters are actively encouraged to seek counselling when they need it, and unless mental issues become debilitating, it does not impact career progression. There are any number of reasons for seeking mental health assistance. It could be that one particular incident was particularly traumatic, or that years of seeing and experiencing things most people can't even imagine, takes it's toll. Or, as Kelsey pointed out, that "ideal" mate isn't so ideal after all. Many times, issues can be resolved in a few visits, sometimes it's a lifetime of care. Just needing to seek out mental health help should not, in and of itself, be a disqualifier for duty.

If you need help with mental health as a pilot you should NEVER tell the FAA. I'm a commercial pilot and every single pilot I know who's done that has either had their career straight up murdered or had to jump through such ridiculous hoops to keep flying that it's insane

Not everyone goes to a therapist because they are suicidal. They just want to talk through a problem. FAA want battery of tests and psychiatry reports. The faa has acknowledged that they have screwed up in the past in regards to this.

Somewhere around 30% of American adults have utilized a bout of therapy. Assuming pilots are just like other adults, well, I'd assume around 30% of pilots would use therapy if it were available to them. I'd call that both a significant number, and an exponential increase over the %age of pilots utilizing therapy today. A Texas study last year found over half (56%) of pilots had avoided health care due to fear they would lose their certification to fly. The VA found that around 4800 pilots who were military vets were found to have failed to submit documentation regarding disabilities that they were *actively collecting disability pay for from the VA*. About 600 of these were commercial pilots, while the rest were in other capacities: cargo, tour flights, corporate clients, etc. Of these 4800 pilots, about 60 had their licenses taken from them as a result of the investigation. Pilots avoiding health care due to fear they will lose their license is a real and significant issue, and it needs to be addressed. Just because you might be more resilient than the next guy, doesn't mean everyone is.

This is the rare case where I disagree with Kelsey. I think pilots should be able to get mental help without risk of losing their medical. Once you report something on your medical, the risk of losing your medical is there, yeah it’s not automatic, but the processes starts where your medical is under review. Counselor’s are required to report risk of harm to self or others, but not every time seeing a counselor is about that. You just hurt the cause of people getting the help they need.

I just came here to see how solidly Kelsey is getting dragged on this one. It is going exactly as I expected. Carry on!

Huge miss on this one. Saying the "FAA won't auto disqualified you" translates to "they will most certainly auto disqualify you, but can't say that for legal liability " just like every application has a box that says "having a felony won't disqualify you" and ask a felon how that works out... that phrase is a way of saying "if we have a VERY VERY COMPELLING reason to keep you then maybe".

The FAA 100% has created an environment that pilots don't ask for help. If you do ask for help for something like anxiety, be prepared to spend all your time and money to go through the hims program. We MUST have a better way for pilots to get help. He is not wrong about pilots and mental illness. Yes there are ways to get back into the cockpit but it's is NOT an easy process.

My guy, I think this was a big miss for you. Just because YOU don’t experience mental health struggles doesn’t mean that there aren’t many of your peers who might be struggling. And it could be totally unrelated to flying. Pilots should absolutely be able to see a counselor privately, without consequences. I’m a counselor and I really don’t believe that doctors or pilots should be forced to report that they’re seeing someone or report that they’re taking medications that don’t affect their functional ability. The bureaucracies don’t understand nuance. Professionals ARE at risk of losing their licenses unfairly and unnecessarily as things stand today.

actually, let's not enforce the idea that therapy is just for depressed, suicidal people. let's not enforce the idea that, because your job isn't "stressful" according to whatever, you shouldn't have stress from your job. *anyone* can benefit from having an unbiased third party organize your thoughts.

There was a medical study done on this a while ago regarding adhd, which i remember basically saying the FAA was creating unnecessary risk by essentially telling pilots "If you get treated or diagnosed, you're fired." due to their ban on adhd. The fact of the matter is, if someone fears the loss of their job more than the consequences of staying in that job to their personage, they will not leave that job, and therefore become an even worse problem to their workplace than if they just got help. We saw it with Germanwings, and we almost saw it again with Alaska Airlines. This simply isn't an environment conducive to safe civil aviation.

this lawyer is right about importance of access to psychologists for pilots

Okay, this is one of the few times I disagree with you... I'm going to die on this hill. There is a huge problem with how pilots and aircrew deal with mental health. I am not a pilot I'm a aircraft mechanic, but in the military I was a Blackhawk Crew Chief and I was basically kind of like a flight engineer, I guess would be the closest thing you can compare it to as a fixed wing commercial pilot. But with that being said we had kind of a peer like relationship with the pilots that we'd hang out with because we all worked so closely even though we were enlisted and they were warrent officers. I, much like a lot of people in the military went through a little bout of depression and they put me on an antidepressant when I talked to the doctor, which immediately grounded me. I was told that I was just going to be grounded to make sure that it wasn't worsening symptoms or anything like that. Cut to my next appointment with a new flight surgeon because the other one had just left and I didn't get my upslip back even though I felt completely fine and better than ever. I've been to the funeral of two pilots, great Pilots that I deployed with who ultimately took their own lives because apparently expressed through letters that they just couldn't do anything their career was going to be over. Also you seem pretty young and single and not having any issues and that's great but people are going through divorces Aviation is very rough on marriages, every time something goes wrong you're never home, a lot of people don't do well waking up in a hotel room not even knowing where they are for a minute. So while the active job I agree is not stressful if you know what you're doing I think it's fun, it's everything that goes with it. When this grounding happened to me everything was fine when I was on a flight because I was so focused on everything that was going on with the aircraft clearing obstacles Etc it was when I was done with a flight and then all of a sudden I would sink back into my hole. Also unless you went through the military there's usually a huge financial burden in the beginning of your career and it's rough. But I think that if the FAA could look at their regulations and become a little bit more realistic you wouldn't have Pilots having their spouses go in complaining of depression so that they can get medication for their pilot husbands or wives because yes that happens to and you can't tell me it doesn't cuz I have seen it on more than one occasion. I mean you can just KZfaq Marry Schiavo, former Inspector General of the DOT talking about this. Maybe if the pilot sitting in the jump seat on that JetBlue flight wasn't sneaking around trying to find alternative treatments to his depression he wouldn't have been tripping balls in the cockpit, trying to reach for the t-handles to kill the engines. Just saying a lot of Pilots are ex-military and have deployed, and Ayahuasca does not show up in the prescription monitoring program that we're all part of now. I live in massachusetts, if I go into an emergency room in Seattle the doctors can see everything I've been prescribed. Sorry about that rant, now I'm going to finish watching because I'm only 37 seconds in. So if I look like a complete ass it's because I've only watched 37 seconds of the video so far it's just something that I feel really passionate about. And I'm not on trying to piss on you personally, it's just more of a general rant. We have very expensive FAA that we as Americans pay a lot of money for in this country and they really need to get with it and stop pretending that every pilot who is in the sky right now as you read this is doing all right as far as depression anxiety panic attacks..... you name it.

I think you missed the mark on this one. Yes the attorney did a poor job of explaining it, but from experience, I dealt with a bout of anxiety, and I was prescribed a medication for 90 days that millions of Americans take, and have taken for decades. When I disclosed it to the FAA, it started a Five year long battle back-and-forth with the FAA to approve my medical. I was literally on the medication for 90 days, but they held my medical up for over five years. This is exactly the reason why many pilots do not seek help for mental health.

You’ve really missed the mark on this one, the FAA can say whatever it wants about how concerned it is of you mental health, and that is likely true to an extent, they’re really only concerned that you’ll crash a plane and the FAA will do everything in its power to prevent you from flying no matter how minor the mental issue is. It isn’t usually an “automatic” pull, but it is still quick and harsh all the same. They’re using specific verbiage and diction that doesn’t address pilot concerns at all. You still have to go through a ridiculous amount of hoops and expensive tests to prove you are airworthy, all the while unable to fly all because you maybe had anxiety as a kid. And you might say, “well that happened as a kid surely the FAA doesn’t care” but if you look around TikTok you can find pilots talking about having a therapist for anxiety prior to becoming a pilot and suddenly an AME does some digging and finds this out and tells the FAA who then yanks your med cert. That pilot as far as I know has been fighting the FAA for over a year to get his med cert back. And while the airlines are supposed to help you out, a year without flying goes beyond sick leave and I doubt that pilot has the same type of assurance you provided with coverage for medical disabilities as often mental disabilities are treated different, but even if they weren’t in this case and that pilot was covered - they will likely claim that this pilot didn’t disclose this to the AME when he first started flying which means it’s his fault and he’s not covered. That pilot is without pay or support and he is not the only one. The thing you missed - and I’m glad you haven’t had to experience it, I hope I never do either - is ACTUAL experience with the FAA process. You got what the FAA says, but what the FAA does is something entirely different. What the lawyer is saying resonates with a lot of pilots because it would be nice to not have to report minor mental health issues to leave the FAA and its strict regime out of it. No pilot, and I’m sure this lawyer is included, is advocating for serious mental issues to go unreported, there are too many incidents of that leading to disaster. And while I am a student pilot and I can attest most of my stress comes from learning - actually flying the plane is not stressful - this job is a big responsibility especially at the commercial and ATP level and that can come with stress. Since I’m so new to this field I want to divert to something I’m more familiar with, my past job. I used to work in a jail as a detentions deputy and we got paid pretty well to do it. You explicitly mentioned law enforcement was more stressful and since I’ve now done a bit of both I can bridge your comments pretty well I imagine. The reason we got paid well and the reason pilots get paid so much, is due to the danger and stress that comes with the job. Thing is, just like you say, day to day doing that job was not stressful. We would always tell new people you aren’t paid for the 95% of the time that things are going well, you’re paid for the 5% it doesn’t. And for sure there is less worry flying a plane than working a jail, because in jail you have to fix problems that can escalate a little more frequently. But as a pilot issues with the plane should always be at the back of your mind, you should always be prepared to encounter an issue, and I’m sure you are and I’m sure you often don’t stress about that overly but I imagine it still is in the back of your mind and whether you know it or not, that does impact you. That is exactly how it was in law enforcement. Most interactions and most days went by without issue, it was usually pretty easy going, but when it hit the fan it hit hard, and THAT was scary. Most people are able to compartmentalize this stressor and continue their tasks but these stresses can build with other stress and suddenly this job that you do well at and find enjoyable can quickly become very stressful and you might get anxious. Maybe you catch these stresses before they become a bigger problem - so why should the FAA care at all unless it reaches the point where you will struggle to do your job? The FAA doesn’t care if you take ibuprofen, but it does care if you take morphine. And rightfully so. What everyone in these comments including me is getting at is that this issue is much deeper than “this job is very stressful and pilots should be suicidal sleep deprived abusers without interruption from the FAA” because that’s not what people are saying, we’re saying the FAA treats all mental illness as if your only capable of running a plane into the ground regardless of how minor that illness is which is wrong. They might treat mild anxiety - something akin to a cold - as if it were an ongoing heart attack but the difference is if you get treatment for the heart attack you can return with proper documentation that you’re good from your doctors. A psychologist could call you good and the FAA would ask you to prove it 100 different ways (hyperbole) before letting you think about planes again. I think it would be great if you dug into this a little bit further because I’ll be honest this seems pretty superficial as of right now. I love watching your videos and I know you’re a great person, so I think it would be great to see you readdress this with more research. If you come to the same conclusions and you think the FAA is reasonable then that is great but you have to give much better reasons than you did here. I promise if you disagree with my inexperienced self I will not be hurt, believe me I’m very used to criticism from previous employment. But I think if you really dig into this topic you may feel similarly and may actually somewhat agree with this lawyer. And oh, I pointed out hyperbole earlier because I’m pretty sure the lawyer was using hyperbole saying it was physics defying - it’s more of a joke since most people joke that flying seems to defy gravity or physics. I used to work at the Air Force academy as well and I’m pretty confident all cadets had to take physics regardless of major so he is well aware of the four forces involved in the principals of flight. Fun fact, they all also had to take survival swimming. USAFA had a lot of funny required curriculum but it was all relevant to the mission in some way. I look forward to your next video.

Kelsey, sorry bro, you're wrong this time. There are significant psychological stresses that come with this job (I agree that "defying physics" and being responsible for the passengers aren't typically among them). Pilots suffer from depression and other maladies just like everyone else, but the FAA has all but closed off any way of getting the same help available to anyone else. That in and of itself magnifies the problem. I've already buried too many pilots that I know personally, lost to suicide. We will never know if they'd still be with us if they weren't concerned, rightly or wrongly, with losing their livelihood. If this lawyer wants to shed light on a topic we as an industry have ignored for too long, then let him. You are not helping by minimizing it.

The German pilot who intentionally crashed his plane killing all of the passengers on board had been seeing mental health professionals, but due to privacy rules this could not be disclosed. His sessions did disclose that he was suicidal, as I recall. While there should be a line, pilots should be able to seek help without risking a career.

Kelsey: "I'm not an expert so I won't talk" Kelsey: (Proceeds to say a bunch of inaccurate shit about mental health as if he is an expert)

This is such a pick-me-girl take on real issue for a lot of people. Personally this topic is not an issue for me thankfully, however, I do have peers in which it is. I will try my best to be constructive with the feedback but I don't even know where to begin. a) You spent the first few minutes of the video belittling a lawyer with a bunch of semi-condescending talk of the lift equation as if he actually thinks airplanes are magic. At this point, in my mind and of those with higher order thinking skills, you've lost credibility due to arrogance and unnecessary belittling. b) You go on extensively to explain that you don't have the experience of a fighter pilot, therefore you can't speak on behalf of them. You completely fail to acknowledge that you don't have the experiences of OTHER airline pilots. This is the epitome of hypocrisy. I understand that your platform is for you to state YOUR takes, which is valid. But what is NOT valid is to pretend that every pilot thinks the same as you, acts the same as you, or is stressed by the same things as you. You don't get to speak for everyone in the industry. c) You falsely spent a lot of time explaining how your job is not stressful, as if that is factually universal. There is nothing objectively stressful about anything at any job. Stress is a subjective measure based off of individuals perceptions of reality. Maybe it's not stressful for YOU. But it can be for other people. Statistically pilots have higher average cortisol levels compared to the majority of other professions, up there with doctors and nurses, directly supporting the opposing side of your argument. d) You insinuated that those stressed out by being a pilot don't particularly belong to the industry. There are people who are stressed out by their desk jobs, that doesn't mean that they're not cut out to be a secretary. There are countless phenomenal pilots that find their job stressful, especially compounded by things in their personal lives. e) You stated that you don't like that the lawyer is insinuating that being a pilot is a risky job, which in turn may decrease the public's confidence in airline safety. That's simply not what he's doing. There is statistically nothing inherently risky about being a pilot, but there are many pilots that are hyper aware of, such as the fact that the consequences of improper action can be catastrophic in this profession. f) I think you brought up a good point about insurance for loss of airman medical- that's a good thing for pilots to be aware of so they don't hide major medical issues due to finances. However, I feel as if this point is the only valuable point I took from the video. g) You mocked the fact that there are so many pilots that could benefit from being able to see a therapist without any medical action. You are having a difficult time distinguishing the difference between mental illness and seeking help for a rough patch in life or well-being. g) On the issue of potentially Sui***al pilots in the cockpit, of course no one wants that, but the argument boils down to two options, which are more or less 1) someone of that nature not getting help, or 2) someone of that nature getting help. and I'd much rather take the later. In conclusion, I think you totally missed the main points of the proposed changes and reforms coming to the industry, by instead focusing on a couple "hot takes" that were more or less irrelevant to the general conversation.

Kelsey, what would you do if a pilot you are flying with said, “Things are so stressful for me right now, my mother is struggling with dementia and my spouse has been diagnosed with cancer. However therapy I’m going to has helped a bit. Oh, the part about the therapy, keep that to yourself, I have not reported it, I don’t need the added stress of worrying about my pilots license.” What would you do?

I think you are pretty off base on this take. Your definition of stress and/or amount of stress you can handle is not necessarily what others can handle. In addition, the level of stress you might face can change from day to day or even from flight to flight throughout the day and it's not just the stress of the job, all the stressors of your life can accumulate up if there is no outlet for it. What he's saying is not wrong, there is a lot of fear over losing your license or even getting it suspended and it prevents people from getting the help they need (not just mental health, but sometimes basic health as well). Let's face it, no one trusts the FAA when it comes to their license. Seeing a therapist without reporting it is a good thing...obviously, there should be guardrails. If a prescription is needed, that should be reported. If the therapist determines they are a danger to themselves or others, that should be reported. But, if you just need to work through stuff or need counseling, it should not be a problem.

I am an airline pilot in Europe since 25 years and fly the same bird as this guy. I am also having a degree in psychology. All I can say is that many pilots I've met and worked with over the years have problems with alcohol and social things, and some really have problems with reality meaning "normal life". We pilots are good at certain things and have a different way of thinking about many things in daily life. On the other hand, I have many colleagues who think they are above certain things because we need to be confident, secure and awake. Some think they are special because they have just flown a heavy or super bird 12+ hours from A to B. Some are stressed because of scenarios or conflicting situations like failures or really crappy weather and low fuel, for example. Flight crews are selected and trained to deal with stressful situations. Nevertheless, pilots and flight attendants occasionally find themselves in situations that they perceive as critical and highly stressful or even life-threatening. The severe stress that is triggered as a normal reaction usually dissipates within a few days or weeks. However, if it is not dealt with properly, chronic symptoms can occur, which can manifest themselves in a severe reduction in quality of life, inability to fly and, in extreme individual cases, even in the form of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), which is difficult to cure and leads to incapacity to work. I've lost colleagues who couldn't fly after engine failures, and that also seemed like a normal, trained event, without any fear or danger. The constant lack of sleep can lead to fatigue syndrome and also depression. A friend of mine had stress symptoms after he once got bitten by a tiger moskito in Lagos, Nigeria resulting in serious health issues. Everytime he had a flight into the moskito zone he had sleepless nights. I don't think this video guy has the experience or expertise to pass judgement on this issue or the lawyer's experience. There are many pilots who need help. I am a CISM Critical incident Stress Management volunteer and have a tiny bit of experience with the effects of stress and the job of an professional airline pilot. Not every pilot needs a YT channel to talk about his great life and play the explanation bear. Don't be to polarizing. Life is not only black and white. Pilots are humans and should get help, especially they should have the freedom to take and get help asap and without prejudice. Greetings from germany.

The pilot that thinks therapy makes you a danger is the dangerous one. They will never reach out for help and end up being one of the over 50% of pilots that refuse healthcare for fear of losing their career.

To have depression doesn't equal to be suicidal. The employees should be helped to be in a better physical and psychological health, not to worry on top of poor health.

I know someone who couldn't get her student pilot license because she reported that she had been to a therapist. She went for counseling because of specific temporary conditions in her life that she had difficulty dealing with. A few years later, when those conditions were no longer a factor, she decided she would like to get her pilot certificate. But the FAA said no, and even refused the appeal. So...be wise. If you really need therapy, go get it. But...

Kelsey, I happen to know Joseph LoRusso directly and have corresponded with him on the matter of medical certification several times, and I can say that him, others in our group and myself have seen the absolute worst of it. You make some valid points but if you haven't been exposed to what we have (and God willing you never do) then please do not criticize us for our plight. Rather, I encourage you to contact Joseph or anyone in our camp if you'd like to know more about what we've been through. Thank you.

Kelsey, im sure that as a senior Cargo captain, maybe your life is less stressful (and even then, you dont get tired?), but for us with our Loans, low seniority, and shit schedule, along with everything we carried into the career with us, i know plenty of people who would benefit from seeing a therapist once in a while without fearing for their entire livelihood. He might not be eloquent, but you sound pretty entitled in plenty parts of this vid.

9:45 You're failing to see here that, if the pilot is having mental struggles where reporting those would lead to them losing their license to fly, they'd be more likely to NOT go and see a therapist, which would most likely mean that they won't get the mental help that they need. This would also be a safety risk, because now you have ticking time bombs that have no avenue of getting the help they need. There have been plane accidents that can at least be partially blamed on the lack of proper mental care for the pilot. Also, not all pilots are necessarily only afraid to lose their income (because as you say, the pilot will continue to get paid). The fear of losing the ability to fly itself can be enough. That said, it's a delicate matter and not having to report itself indeed also has its negative consequences. I see some options to improve the system, but I doubt that they would fully solve the issue.

Kelsey, you are missing a huge part of this. You are treating mental health difficulties as if they are only acute. One of the major issues they are trying to address is things like not getting help for chronic adhd, depression, or anxiety because you may lose your job... Left untreated, this issue is sooooo much worse than if you go get treatment and the FAA doesn't know about it. What they are driving at is that there are a substantial number of pilots who are currently flying who have these problems and are not seeking help because of the current FAR/AIM standards. That said, from the very short clips and little context that you shared of the original videos, they are doing a very poor job at explaining this issue. Not that it matters, but I'm an Aerospace Engineer who has been studying this issue for the last couple of years.

I've been a fan of this page since I found it quite a while ago, HOWEVER... Kelsey completely misses the target here, and I cannot accurately determine whether he's 1)Over confident, 2) Pompous, or 3) Completely clueless about the human factor of flying. I dont necessarily like lawyers either, but this one is actually advocating for the Pilot industry. I am a full time fire officer and paramedic, and have been for 40 years. For anyone to say that mental health ISN'T a factor in todays world in my opinion is simply foolish and uninformed. Others mentioned about pilots being "human" and experiencing stress (except Kelsey apparently, he doesn't experience stress). You're having marital/relationship difficulties, alcohol problems, dealing with your kids, health challenges, financial problems, you name it. Would it help to go get a "tune up" with a counselor? You bet. No Brainer. But I guess you cannot as a pilot for fear of being reported to the FAA. That's tragic. I am not sure I would want a pilot who does not 'experience stress' flying me in an aircraft. Everyone experiences stress. Good stress, bad stress, EVERYONE. When you are skilled at a job; pilot, physician, paramedic, firefighter, etc, you push through your stress with your training, experience, and teamwork. People are not robots, maybe auto-pilots are, but humans experience stress. We can probably go over a number of cases where a pilot went off the margin because of a mental health crisis and augered in, went berserk, or in the case of Malaysia 370, sailed off into oblivion. Police Officers are similar to this pilot/mental health conundrum, that in some states if they are admitted to a hospital for a mental health issue, they lose their ability to carry a weapon (lose their job). . . . I think there is a compromise here where pilots can go for mental health care without being reported, UNLESS they meet some mandated reporting criteria; "you know Doc, I want to kill all these Disney fans going to Orlando"... Well Captain, you know those are the magic words where I have to report you.... But If a Pilot, cop, coal miner, whoever wants to seek some advice on how to keep their 15 year old from making them nuts, well that's a good thing, and no one needs to know that outside the couselors office..... bernie

That's not how therapy works. You don't go in suicidal and get told they'll see you next Tuesday.

So according to Kelsey, if you are doing a desk job and don't have to fight with criminals or fire, then your job is not stressful. If only that was true!!

1 out of 9 commercial pilots are experiencing depression and 4.1% have had suicidal thoughts. Pilots need to be able to go get therapy without it even being a question for their medical certificate. I got news for you, it’s not just stress of the job that can cause depression. It could be any number of things in life.

I agree with everyone else who’s commented, you got this one wrong. Whether the stress comes from the job or just life, pilots should be able to talk to a therapist without worrying about losing their medical. I think your next video should be a sit down with this guy and have a discussion about aviation medicals.

Speaking as someone who has experienced the endless joy of fighting the FAA uphill for an SI, it’s hell. One nurse stamps you with depression and right there you are judged and convicted. Odds are good you will battle to actually get your case reviewed. It took years to find out that because I refused an SSRI I was being rejected off hand. I completely understand the public safety concerns. Even if you are no threat of any kind, your not thinking clearly FULL STOP. The problem is this also seriously encourages even recreational pilots to remain silent, particularly if your anywhere near a medical professional of any kind. Anything you say can and will be used against you. The best thing you can have are good friends or family near.

You can’t separate the rest of your job from flying. Those stressors follow you into the cockpit. Also, I don’t think you can just dismiss someones legitimate fear of getting their medical pulled. I think this is a little more complicated issue then both these guys make it seem.

ok so maybe the lawyer could have elaborated more clearly but his point is still the same. pilots are human and have stress and struggles like everyone else and the "why" shouldn't matter. everyone should feel safe being able to seek out help. mental health really needs to be de-stigmatized.

Man, you're sure a very trusting guy. I hope you never get shown the darker side of this topic... Respectfully, this would be one of those scenarios in which you, a young, happy guy living the dream, flying some of the coolest planes in the world and not facing the stress of a family (as far as I know), should probably just keep your mouth shut. This guy is trying to help your peers and colleagues, bro. Maybe try not to bite the hand that may one day feed you?

“The only time you have been stressed who has been sitting behind you is when a flight attendant is raring your landing” wow this is just shows the personality of this guy. Ego is definitely huge.

It's also important that people know you can see therapists for quality of life improvements and not only for disabling conditions. If you are grieving the loss of someone and want help, there are therapists who specialize in that. There are marriage counselors. If you have a child or family member that is behaving in a stressful way, there are family counselors or personal counselors. If you are in a situation where you're living but not thriving because of some mental blocks, a therapist can help you overcome that. It's like seeing a doctor for a medical condition that's bothering you but not upending your life. If it doesn't get better on it's own, why not see a doctor to get it looked at? Better to get it fixed than keep dealing with it.

I would feel sooooo much better knowing that my pilot has their mental health under control, than them keeping it to themselves. I suffer from depression and anxiety on a daily basis, the one thing that helps me stay sane is knowing my medication is working as it should be. There have been a few crashes due to someone's mental health taking over their last flight. I think the FAA needs to know if a pilot is OK to do their job.

Oh Kelsey.. this is the first time I have to say youre wrong. Stress cant always be handled by making changes, I cant change loved ones long terminal illness or death, how other people act or any circumstances outside of my reach. Stress, anxiety and depression comes in many forms and from many places, just because youre not affected by it, doesnt mean no one else is (tho Im happy for you). I dont think pilots are the only humans who are able to manage their mental wellbeing alone, but it kinda seems they are asked/forced to do it. If being a pilot and flying is big part of your identity, are you really willing to risk it? Would flying a table really be an option, because youre going thru a rough divorce and feel somewhat lost? I honestly dont think so, it just adds to it. This is what this lawyer is trying to change, for a good reason.

Kelsey, I think you've got it very wrong on this one. The FAA's medical side is basically set up to fuck anyone who isn't absolutely 100% normal and healthy over if they are fully aware of and seek treatment for their problems, with mental health being the absolute worst part of the system. Here's an example from my own life: In the mid-90s, I was seriously considering getting a license. Maybe not to make a career out of flying, but at least to get my private ticket. Even got a couple of introductory lessons with logged time, and the instructor even had me fly the landings on them (he was *very* closely guarding the controls). Thing is, I have ADHD (among other issues that weren't yet known at the time), and was on medication for it... and I found out that if you have ADHD, you're in a complete Catch-22 situation. Specifically... untreated ADHD is a disqualifying condition for any level of medical certificate; if you have it, you can't get a medical and thus can't fly. However, all approved medications for treating ADHD are on the FAA's Prohibited Substances list, so if you *are* being treated and the FAA demands a ramp check piss test, you'll get your license suspended as a disciplinary action for flying under the influence of a prohibited substance. Result: I can't get a medical without treatment, but I can't take my medication and still be allowed to fly. I'm forced to give up on my dream of ever getting to putt-putt around in a Cessna for recreation and/or personal travel, because the FAA *claims* that there's a way to get your medical with ADHD, but has something in place to ensure that you'll never actually be allowed to fly if you have it. Exactly the same bullshit that anyone with any other mental health issue (or, for that matter, neurodivergent tendencies) faces from the FAA's medical side--claims that it's not automatically going to get you grounded, but a system that's explicitly designed to ensure that you will *effectively* get grounded permanently.

I'm a CFI. When instructing students and helping them learn to land, I have to back off and let them land the plane. I'm ready to jump on the controls if they are making a serious mistake, but you have to let your students do the landing. That IS stressful.

I do know a pilot that won’t go to therapy because he is afraid to lose his license. He is on the spectrum and struggles with some OCD at home mostly around kitchen things. He’s a single engine pilot that flies skydivers and sightseers in a vacation area. He’s mostly happy with his job and less stressed there. I have tried to convince him to go anyway but he’s convinced the faa will take his license. So he avoids his kitchen and eats a lot of takeout and bottled juices and waters.

I totally disagree with you on this one Kelsey (minus the physics part.) Most people see a therapist for anxiety/mild depression while some have serious mental health issues. An anxious person will by definition experience the demands of corporate differently than a person without anxiety making work a far more stressful experience. They will also have more anxiety about disclosing and the risks to their job, than a person without anxiety. Counseling is a great way to deal with that and not let anxiety invade every corner of a person's life. A good provider has an obligation to report anyone who they consider a danger to themselves/others regardless of what they do for a living. One option would be to have FAA certified therapists who are specialized on when to ask a pilot to take a LOA or report for their medical certificate, but a pilot can see them without having to put it on their medical certificate. My suspicion based on your video is that you have been blessed to not struggle with anxiety and never overthought everything in your life. Sadly, anxiety is a very treatable condition, but untreated it will fester and become an issue at work.

I think Kelsey missed the point a little bit here. The co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525 had a condition that said if he were to be diagnosed with depression ever again he would be barred from flying forever. Do you think he would've gotten help if he didn't have this condition? This is an extreme example, but there is an environment created by the FAA (and other aviation authorities in the world) that prevents pilots from seeking help, even for small things. Similar story with the pilot in the Alaskan Airlines flight earlier this year. If that pilot actually felt more comfortable seeking help, and knew it wouldn't risk his job, the incident could have been prevented. We have to find the right balance between stopping people who are too mentally unfit to fly, and creating an environment that allows pilots who are fit to fly to seek help.

The stress does not need to come from the job, stress can come in all sort of forms. in that regard i would agree with the guy that therapy would be helpful to a lot of people, and that includes pilotes. therapy doesnt need to fix problems, it can also prevent problems.

I think you might've misinterpreted his take as encouraging pilots to seek treatment without reporting or following the rules. I took what he was saying as "Pilots are fearful of seeking mental health treatment due to the current FAA Aeromedical system", which is absolutely true as evidenced by the FAA video you included. The FAA is behind the curve when it comes to mental health treatment, and we still need to find the right balance to ensure safety while also having a set of rules where pilots never feel like they need to hide anything from their AME. The steps to allow some SSRIs was a positive move, but I personally believe we can go further and still not decrease safety in aviation.

Therapy can be preventative too

the lawyer your roasting has talked to me and countless other pilots every day. I mean he talks to pilots for a living getting their point of view about he job. yes pushing buttons and pulling levers isnt the stressful part. Dealing with reroutes 14 hour duty days into 10 hour overnights into jounermans extending your 4 day to 5 days dealing with MELs and MX and disruptive passengers and crash pads and the litney of other issues pilots run into is the stressful portion. btw the uniform is intended to be worn in its entirety

As someone who has gone through a period of depression and anxiety, and did so following the FAA’s guidelines to the letter… yeah, they will absolutely feed you to the wolves. The FAA says one thing publicly for appearance sake, but does another behind closed doors. I know, you’re shocked right. Who knew! So I was dealing with this depression and anxiety. Not suicidal or anything of that scale. But enough to warrant an SSRI to help me get over the hump. The FAA allows for one specific SSRI for a pilot to be on without risk of losing their medical. So I told my doctor I need to be on that specific one if I was going to take anything. Upon telling the FAA, along with a psych evaluation stating I wasn’t a danger to anyone and was mentally fit to fly… the FAA yanked my medical anyways. Needless to say this absolutely did not help my anxiety or depression. The FAA told me I had to be off the SSRI for 6 months before they’d let me reapply. I called them to ask “Wtf???” because I was taking the sole SSRI they themselves approve for pilots. Their response was basically “Oh yeah totally, the SSRI is approved. But you need a waiver from us first. But since you’re already on the medication, you cannot get a waiver.” Absolutely nowhere on the FAA site is there mention of a waiver required PRIOR to being on their approved SSRI. You only find this nugget of truth from the horse’s mouth once you’ve got the meds in hand and tell them. And this sets up a perfect storm situation. A pilot loses their medical after doing everything the FAA says to do. To get the medical back, they have to go off of a medication they should be on for their own mental health and wellness. A medication which numerous doctors have signed off on saying it makes this pilot fit for service. So stay on the meds, looking after your own well being… or go off the meds and risk a downward spiral for the sake of keeping a roof over your head and providing food for your family? The stereotype of the self medicating pilot with a severe alcohol problem exists for this very reason. The FAA doesn’t give a flying f**k if you’re got a drinking problem. Just obey the bottle-to-throttle rules and they’ll look the other way. But seek out professional help and follow their guideline in doing so, and they’ll nail you to a cross. Long story short, on this the lawyer isn’t wrong. If the FAA was more accepting of these things like EASA is, pilots would be better for it. Hell the entire industry would be better off. But they aren’t and pilots learn to keep these things buried.

When your debate response begins by saying your opponent has no right to an opinion, you must have a weak argument.

Many years ago, I read the book 'The Right Stuff' by author Tom Wolfe which also became a movie in the eighties. The book, in particular, focussed on the dread that pilots (in this case military test pilots) had of showing any indication of "coming apart at the seams' mentally. I think it's an affliction that many men have in different walks of life. I'm fairly 'robust' but during a very rough patch in my marriage, I knew I needed some counselling when I sat through two changes of traffic light signals without realising it until the driver of the car behind me knocked on my window to see if I was ok.

Mentour Pilot himself has said this is a major issue, and he made a video about a pilot who didn't want to report his mental health issues, to the point where they boiled over and had a psychotic break, he tired shutting down the engines mid-flight over it. Even if you do get paid by your insurance until 65, your career is in a sense, part of your identity.

Note that the clip of the Federal Air Surgeon, Susan Northrup, that you put into the video, actually confirms what the lawyer said: that many pilots are afraid of loosing their certificate for reporting anxiety. You probably wanted to put in a different clip instead?

I don’t think he meant it literally defies physics dude, he was describing how it FEELs, it’s just colorful language to try and reinforce the relevant statement he was making about how stressful it is. He’s a lawyer after all, colorful language and strong emotional appeal is one of their strongest traits lol.

Honestly, I'm a little shocked by Kelsey's takes on this one. Every other airline pilot I follow or have heard speak on this subject has affirmed that it is a more-stressful-than-average job. Not "oh my god oh my god gravity is going to turn back on and we are all going to fall out of the sky because planes _literally_ defy physics" stressful. What they talk about is high levels of personal responsibility with high consequences for mistakes, unusual hours, constantly being away from home and loved ones, constant rotation through coworkers making it hard to form consistent connections day-to-day, lack of control over schedule, burn out, etc. Not to mention the fact that even people in relatively low-stress jobs should probably be getting therapy and professional advice every once in a while. I'm happy for people like Kelsey who have extremely high resistance to psychological distress. That's awesome for him. I just hope he can understand that that's not because he's figured out the right way to approach mental health and the average person needs to get on his level. Your baseline mental state is just as inherent as your physical health. Other (average) people don't experience the world the same way he does, and he seems to have a really hard time understanding that. He's benefitting from an unusual physical advantage over others without realizing that that's what is going on. I've seen hints in the past that made me think that may be the case, but this video really confirmed that he doesn't understand that his personal experience isn't the norm (or even particularly common). He showed some pretty shocking ignorance in this video while speaking in a very authoritative way- something I know he hates to see others do. I actually hope he seriously reconsiders leaving this video up and unaltered. His attitude towards people who do struggle with stress was disturbing to witness, and not an attitude I want to see spread. It's harmful. I love the channel and Kelsey, but I think he majorly missed the mark on this one in a very uncharacteristic way. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see other aviation channels (or psychology channels because that was the actual topic primarily being discussed) dunking on this video in the future.

This is gaslighting. What the FAA states on their website isn’t what happens in real life

You work at the intersection of several giant bureaucracies, and you really can't see why reporting any mental health care you seek to them? These organizations are almost designed to fuck with people in this way. And, of course, if a pilot says they're suicidal, someone should be told about that, BUT it's nuanced like everything else. If I'm seeing a therapist for my mommy issues (of which I have plenty), I see no reason anyone but me and my therapist need to know anything about it. Look at the military, which is trying to change, but slowly, the catastrophic view of seeking help with your mental health being a reflection on your fitness to do the job, and careers are lost because of it. I went to therapy because I lived for years in a dark suicidal depression. I also went because I had these weird fears left over from childhood, where I hated to put my feet down next to my bed because I feared the monsters who lived under it. I'd say there's a qualitative difference between those things and having to be worried some medical bureaucrat might have a bias against therapy of all kinds and make trouble for me because I watched too many horror movies when I was young is not something I should have to deal with. I just would live with the fears.

I feel this is really disingenuous when he talks about being a pilot not being stressful, there are loads of reports from organisations around the world that represent pilots talking about stress and more about anxiety and depression, often related to the lifestyle linked - being away from home etc. Getting treatment for any of these conditions is frowned upon as you're automatically seen as someone who will fly the next plane they comman in to a mountain so it creates the avoidance of dealing with the issues and they just mount rather than get addressed. This is what the person in the video is addressing.

Curious. Petter from Mentour Pilot seems to come to the opposite conclusion: reporting is important, but not working when you're unable to perform safely, as well as getting treatment, are even more important. Until it's fully destigmatized, and guaranteed not to act as a permanent black mark, getting unreported help is better than getting no help.

If a patient tells a physician that he/she/they feel suicidal, the physician must evaluate that and if there is the possibility of harm to the patient or to anyone else, the physician is required to report it.

A note on mental health (especially for men).. It has been said many times but we definitely let things snowball and go too far. Depression and stress can present themselves subtly, so it's a good thing to keep an eye on mood, and how you're feeling day to day. There's something to be said for taking the heavy load and being the rock for your family, but you're still human. Seek help if you need it. Whatever situation you're in, the light shines through eventually.

I admit, I am not ATP or even commercial rated. I am a private pilot in RH and ASEL. I am also a physician. I disagree with the dismissal of the concerns by saying "this job is not stressful" or that there is no risk. If there was no risk and no stress then pilots would not care about things like checklists, memory items, and knowing the systems of the aircraft they fly. If there was no risk then it would not take a rather significant amount of training to gain the ability to be pilot in command of even a light piston general aviation aircraft. The risk is low, but not zero, because we all are aware of that risk and consciously take steps (such as knowing aircraft systems, knowing memory items, and using checklists) to minimize the risk. The stress is typically manageable, although for low-time commercial pilots there is a very real pressure to take flights in order to build hours, and for the ATPs I know the stress of the frequent furloughs is definitely an issue. I have seen AMEs defer for truly stupid reasons, and I have seen the FAA require pilots to jump through all sorts of medically-unnecessary testing to regain their medical certification. As an example, a pilot called out sick for a headache. The next day he still wasn't feeling 100% so he called out again. He was flying single pilot IFR, and we want him to be doing the right thing. His company pulled him from flight status, demanded he head back to the AME, and the AME deferred despite the pilot's neurologic examination being entirely normal and his headache was completely resolved. The FAA demanded a neurology consult. That isn't going to be expeditious for someone with a single headache episode where he didn't need to visit the Emergency Department and has a normal neurologic examination. So, the pilot waited and saw neurology. The FAA then demanded an MRI of the brain, which the neurologist who examined the pilot didn't think was necessary, and I personally agree with the neurologist. That took a while too, and the medical insurance (paid by the pilot's employer) didn't cover the test because it wasn't medically necessary. So the pilot exhausted his "sick time" and waited around for that study, at his own expense, which was also entirely normal. Many weeks went by and finally the FAA issued the medical certificate. What was the message the FAA sent there? He should have just flown SPIFR in a helicopter while feeling sick. That isn't what the website says, nor is it what is said in the AME handbook, but it very much is the message they communicated through both their actions and their inaction. I also agree that someone suicidal should not be behind the controls of an aircraft, but no reasonable therapist would say to a suicidal client in the office, "OK, the hour is up. See you at the next appointment." In today's society if a client even hints at suicidal ideation that is often an immediate referral to me in the Emergency Department. If the client expresses overt suicidality, that absolutely is an ED referral, 100% of the time. No competent outpatient therapist in the US is going to take the risk of being the last professional to see that client before they took their own life, no matter how low that risk may be. If the client refuses crisis evaluation, they wind up coming to see me by way of a police escort. That is a relatively common occurrence in my line of work.

Absolute clanger here, sorry to say. The reality is pretty simple. People experiencing mental health issues exist both in the pilot world and out of it. As pilots, dealing with these should be encouraged, not reprimanded. You shouldn't be punished for correctly dealing with low risk mental health disorders, nor for a history of more severe ones if deemed fully recovered and safe by professionals. A culture of nondisclosure due to the fear of loss of license is the danger here, not the treatment for the medical issue. You stop pilots with genuinly saftey impairing mental health disorders from flying by allowing treatment before the disorder can develop to become severe.

I love your videos, but this one feels like a swing and a miss. It's interesting to me that you featured a pilot, lawyer, cop, and firefighter, as the American Society for Addiction Medicine defines all of these as "safety sensitive," essentially meaning "you don't get to have a bad day - period." Good to hear that you are especially resilient, and I think that relaxed nature is what makes your videos so great, but its undeniable that it makes the practice of these professions pressure-filled. I work as a therapist for a lawyer assistance program, and we only just recently scored a major victory in getting questions about mental health treatment and diagnosis removed from the Bar application (in most, not all, states). For years, there's been a chilling effect with law students refusing to seek treatment for fear of it affecting their ability to be licensed, regardless of whether any conduct exists that might raise questions as to their ability to be fit for practice. Yes, in the perfect world you describe, seeking therapy isn't and shouldn't be a disqualifier to practice any profession, but you are also A) giving the licensing agencies FAR too much credit and B) missing the nuance of the broad range of issues someone might seek therapy for, by jumping right to suicidal ideation. Imagine wanting to seek therapy because your spouse cheated on you - the stress isn't coming from the plane you fly, but it exists all the same, as does your obligation to report it. Do you think the pilot in that scenario would rather seek therapy and deal with the unavoidable consequences of disclosure, or sweep it under the rug to avoid the shame? Which course of action would you rather have YOUR pilot taking? Or a scenario where a close family member passes away - many might seek grief counseling, and many in safety sensitive professions might not due to reporting requirements, even though I think we could all agree we'd rather have our pilots, cops, firefighters, and lawyers dealing with grief in a healthy way. Ultimately I think equating "attending therapy" with "mentally unfit" (a phrase which is in the title of the video as of my comment) is dangerous. While I feel safe perfectly safe flying, it's also undeniable that the aviation industry has suffered catastrophic and public mental health breakdowns with stressed pilots missing something on the take-off checklist, misunderstanding ATC instructions, letting inattention take them an hour off course, falling asleep in the cockpit, or even purposefully crashing their planes.

It's not defying physics or defying gravity. It's using physics to overcome gravity. Because science is cool like that!

I've been following the channel for a while, but this video disappointed me a bit and seemed in poor taste. The initial tik-tok placed some undue emphasis on the flying part being stressful, sure, but isn't it a bit tone-deaf to go on a long tirade about how pilots are not stressed and how jobs like "police and firemen" are the ones who are stressed? Any job can stress anyone with the right combination of home-life, person and current situation, a point you touch on yourself, and that really is the crux here. Barriers need to be removed from accessing therapy for everyone, and pilots stereotypically have not accessed that help in the past due to the very strict rules of the FAA. The first 10 minutes of the video just seemed like an unneccessary dismissal of people who are stressed by their work before you finally led into the more nuanced real issue - that people need support for their issues and fear getting their job taken. "Maybe you just aren't cut out to be a pilot?" It's exactly that sort of comment that means people don't go get the support they need. Pulling verbage from official documents is also about as useful to an essentially human issue as asking someone to read the terms and conditions on a piece of software. It's about the overall environment, both the FAA and corporate that matters, as It's the human behaviour that matters here. I would want a nuanced take from a pilot telling me about whether you are seeing people getting help when they need it, and the support they need from the airlines, front and center at the start of the video, not an out and out 10 minute smackdown on pilots feeling stressed needing a "red button" to pull people off flying. There is more here, but I just don't understand why approaching the topic this way is the choice taken, there is nuance to this topic that is not helped by roasting a mention of stress and some silly talk of physics that really is not particularly relevant to the topic.

Look at the statistics for pilots who don’t report issues to their AME, and those who avoid treating mental health issues. There have been articles in AOPA on this recently.

As someone with a mental disabillity... who went to a company who was fit to deal with this. Mishandled me heavily ONCE, by switching my job from a job I was preparing for all week to one I didn't... and I didn't understand. I tried asking for help.. nope... What do they recommend I do? Take medication to work! I had no depression, just couldn't do the work they wanted me to do and mentally broke down.

Kelly, you are out of your realm on this one. You are a great pilot and KZfaqr, but you don't understand hyperbole and the subtilties of mental illness.

While most of your points are clear, i agree with the lawyer that better access to confidential mental health treatment is not a bad thing. The current FAA medical guidelines absolutely DO force some people to not seek the help they should for fear of being disqualified. Plenty of commercial pilots have spoken on this topic publicly before so i think it does bear some thought. If I'm not mistaken another channel has covered one of the major pilot's unions talking about this after the Chinese nose down crash last year.

Respectfully disagree with you. Pilots are in no way incentivized to seek help. Many pilots would seek help early, for a variety of things, but because of the negative impact on their career - they don’t. It’s a huge issue.

Is it just flying that you're considering the lawyer to be discussing, or are you appreciating that there are other aspects to work (bullying, politics, drama, not being paid properly, having tight turn arounds, employers having higher expectations than what is feasible, etc) and life (illness, debt, loneliness, etc) that could play into a pilot's mental health? It seems like all you've thought about is that "Well, I find flying a plane loads of fun and not stressful at all, it's easy for me!" and have ignored that people are complicated and a lot of factors outside of the cockpit will, inevitably, come into it. You might call that poor discipline, but that's an attitude that prevents people accessing help and support sooner.

With full respect, and as much as I love your content, Kelsey. I have to disagree with you on this one. To put it in pilot's terms, having to fear for the consequences of getting therapy would be like if go-arounds were (occasionally) penalized. Mental conditions ARE prevalent, and many ARE treatable. You don't want pilots second-guessing whether they should go around, then why should they be second-guessing whether they should get the help they might be in need of? Much more aligned with Mentour Pilot on this one. Maybe a good idea for a debate video? 🤔

74 Gear, I think you are missing the point with this video. The issue is not whether flying a plane is stressful or not but whether pilots (regular human beings) can get treatment for psychological conditions that the majority of the population is exposed to such as every day stressors (relationships, family, money,etc...). I've known a few commercial pilots and flight attendants and alcoholism/alcohol abuse syndrome and self-treatment appears to be rampant in the industry. How many times do we hear about pilots stopped at the gate prior to departure for still being drunk from the night before?

To take this idea further but in other walks of life or hobbies, I know a few in this situation. One was a policeman. I've known him for ~34 years and in the last decade or so, his mild depression had gotten much worse and though he never would admit to any homicidal thoughts, he did admit to frequent suicidal thoughts. He would not ever go to seek any help for fear of losing his job (and rightfully so). He eventually (thankfully) left the job and while he hasn't gotten all the help I think he could use, he's in a better place now. Myself, in spite of having a great life for the most part, I have had depression issues for 40 years but have never had any real suicidal thoughts. I have been on medication for the last 15 years or so and they help improve my mood and general outlook on life. However, I am an avid gun owner and in the US there have been talks about barring anyone with mental health issues from owning a firearm. While on the surface this makes sense, which would be safer a person that won't seek help because they'll lose their hobby? Or, someone who is trying to get on the right path? As someone who first hand knows the difference it has made, I firmly believe medication can help as it did me. Of course, it would depend on the mental disorder. Some are worse than others. Perhaps some would need to have compliance checks that they are taking their medicine, visiting therapist, etc. I am sure some will disagree with this. That is their right but I stand by what has worked for me.

Yeah Kelsey, I’m sorry you missed the mark here.

You kinda miss the mark on this I think. It's more a case of mental illness than are not diagnosed because you don't want it diagnosed, until something horrible happens

People need the opportunity to talk to someone without the risk of loosing your job. A truck driver or any other industry worker can cause a lot of damage as well. People need an outlet - and I believe if you can get the help early on, it can circumvent bigger problems later. He went over the top, but the basic idea is noble.

As far as disability insurance, if you're a pilot who winds up losing your medical to a mental health issue you'd be well advised to go ahead and take that eye out too. Disability claims that lack the loss of a limb or other *visible* appendage are rarely approved, be it private insurance or SSDI (in the US).

Mental health is important; don't shove it under the rug.

Bogus. No pilot wants to lose his identity by being grounded and sit at home for the rest of his career like a bum on disability payments. If they weren’t suicidal before, they probably would be once they couldn’t fly anymore. No other professional identity can be taken away at the whims of quack doctors like aviation. Let pilots get whatever help they need privately and continue their careers like any other person would. There are probably thousands of “depressed” pilots who fly safely and find their only happiness in life watching a sunrise from the flight deck with a coffee in hand.

You lost me at 8 minutes. I wouldn’t want to be collecting disability. I want to fly, to serve passengers, to travel, to work with the crew, etc. you’re out of touch on this one mate

No man you are totally wrong here, he's absolutely right

Many decades ago, an uncle of mine who worked in an insurance company devised an insurance for pilots who wouldn't pass the physical. The premise was that the probability was very low. The result was catastrophic for the company, since many pilots who were barely passing the physical suddenly stopped passing it. So Kelsey is speaking for himself on this matter. HAving said that, it's good that pilots must tell if they have either mental or physical problems that may impair their performance.

I’m not a pilot. I know he is wrong about physics, but his point is made. I’m a lawyer. Lawyers do not have to report medical info to the states where they have a license to practice law. However, you can lose your license in many jurisdictions if you have and addiction to drugs or alcohol. That meant lawyers who had substance abuse problems never went to rehab programs. The states wised up and finally changed it rules. They made it possible to go into rehab or seek treatment for a substance abuse problem did not get you disbarred. They allowed you to seek help. It was a significant number of lawyers who were allowed to get help, thus improving their lives and their work bc they were allowed to admit they needed help and could get it without the risk of someone reporting to the state and losing their license to practice. These two jobs are very different, but the issue is the same. There probably are pilots who don’t go to therapy or seek treatment bc they don’t trust their employer or the FAA to stand behind them for long. I wonder how the FAA or your Airline would take it if you kept going to therapy for a year or two years.

You miss the point. The point is, reporting it to the FAA will discourage some from going when they need to go to a therapist. From stress. Or other causes.

Okay why are you mad by this? This is such a tone deaf take. The point is, everyone has life stressors and pilots being discouraged from seeking mental health help increases job and life stressors in general. Why are you advocating against better mental health in aviation? Because you view something as not stressful doesn’t mean others don’t feel a certain way. Dude, have some empathy.

I would argue the "stress" of the job is more related to always being away from home more than the job it's self

Kelsey, you really don't have the appreciation for things like depression, which can last for years, yet be non-suicidal and keep someone completely functional and safe from the standpoint of society (it just takes much more effort to go through things). The systems that a good pilot has (following the same procedures and checklists) actually make it easier to cope with depression because it's easier to just go from step 1 to step 2 to step 12 of a procedure because the procedure needs to be done. It doesn't make them unfit! It just makes the life more difficult for them. Yet visits to psychologists or psychiatrists to help with that mild depression can and do keep pilots from getting or renewing their medical, and not all pilots work for airlines and have the medical insurance. So the lawyer is wrong in some ways, but you are wrong in some ways too. Understanding depression is not easy.

I do love you Kelsey but you didn’t get this one right in my personal opinion. I still respect yours.

I went to school to learn to drive Commercial Trucks, ie Semi Trucks. First day, driving a fully loaded truck, out into traffic, was really stressful. First drive I had someone passed me on the right side of my truck, at a high rate of speed, while I was making a right turn; both right lanes were right turn only. Once you get accustomed to operating a complex piece of equipment in a ever changing environment, you settle into a workable routine. I had liquid oxygen and propane in my truck; that could have taken out a city block. While there is always a chance of a major accident, the probability is extremely low. That being said, if someone needs therapy, "will this affect my job" is the last thing people should be worrying about.

As I think you can see from the comments, a lot of people do not see it the way you do. I am a clinical psychologist and C-ASEL/C-AMEL-IA, and I can tell you that there is what the FAA says (oh, we care about your mental heatlh) and then there is what the FAA does (ground people). Most people I see in psychotherapy are able to perform their job duties without difficulty, and in fact taking away their ability to do their job would have a serious negative impact on their mental health - particularly in men, who are told from the beginning that they are only as good what they produce (this is somewhat of an overstatement, and women get this message as well in some sectors). It's not necessarily the actual flying the plane that's stressful, but it's the being gone 20 nights a month from family. It's a lot of lonely nights away - yes that's part of the job but it's still hard on a person. And then, we pilots are human beings who are susceptible to the same life stuff that everyone else experiences. If a person takes medication of any kind of mental health treatment, then they will almost always have to go through the special issuance process. One more thing - as a practicing psychologist I DO NOT want that big red button you mentioned. If you want laws that say that if a person is admitted to inpatient and that triggers loss of medical pending investigation, that makes sense because to get there you have to be in pretty rough shape and they are not managing a significant portion of life very well. I have a lot more to say, but I have work to do.