I think what went wrong was, a red pointer has been taken off your lathe. This red pointer would have been pointing to the number on the bottom of that wheel. So your assuming that the top number is the one selected, whereas, if you had that red pointer, you'd have been looking at the digit on the bottom of the wheel.

27:34 Was that Fraggle Rock, by any chance?😅 Sounded kinda like it at the end, there.😁

I would have mounted the Guage pin in the chuck. Dial in the vice. Position the quill so that the pin goes EXACTLY through the hole. Measure the offset. Replace the Guage pin with the drill bit and drill your hole. Done.

Ask Curtis from Cutting Edge Engineering I'm sure it is just something simple he might be able to help you figure out your problem

Adam, now that you have it right, I would suggest you plug the other hole so that if you ever remove the dial, you will not be guessing which way is correct going back on.

it helps to see that people in the comment section exsist

@@snorttroll4379 Yes, of course. I'm just reminding people that when he does record, it's just him and his thoughts.

Well said.

Explaining something to someone can make it easier for oneself to understand. He's doing himself a favour and helping us in the process. Brilliant!

Yes, a treasure.

i am thinking the same thing but i don't have the same lathe as he has so i can't replicate the situation and check

The 56 tooth setting effects a 1.27:1 (non-integer ratio, common between metric to imperial change gears). His initial error ratio was 1.125:1 (integer divisible steps selection), So, it's not a function of the metric/imperial conversion.

The beauty of our position is that we are trained ( I assume) machinists. But this does show the worth of proper training and apprenticeships.

Just as I'm watching this that's what I'm thinking. Despite the box there are often some change gears, or rather gears common to everything that can be changed. Be it broken/worn or modified. The lead screw could also have been changed (and half nut) for a different set. All the issues with a previously loved machine.

Great reply! I guess that could be confusing when the rest of the settings seem to be so foolproof...

It is clear that you have transcended above us mere geeks venturing towards the dark arts of Nerd Fu, should you ever require a disciple of the arts, many would rally to your banner good sir. I tip the hat with respect.

@@SmokePoppa Thanks for the complements. This week I am making a new KZfaq video called Understanding Gear trains in my KZfaq channel called evan-e-cent. I made the same video 4 years ago and since it had 21,000 hits and the quality was very poor, I have done it again with some nice PhotoShopped graphics. Comment if you like it. Should be online in the next few days.

Awesome work man, thanks!

With a little bit of math you can calculate the leadscrew because the same settings use the 2 diffrent input ratios and have a known output, example the m14 and 3.5mod both use settings HO4Z

So has this been resolved lol?

Me too

Move the index!!🤣🤣🤣

My thoughts exactly. I just finished commenting the same thing and deleted it after seeing that you had made the same comment.

Well no, because then the index mark would be on the bottom. And that is pretty much useless, at least if you want to read your machine correctly and/or easily. Unless you want to make things harder, in that case, yeah go for it ;)

​@@patrickd9551 Ehh, there's only eight settings. It would be pretty easy to use a mark on the bottom with a dial that large with that few settings

@@patrickd9551, I meant for testing purposes. The labels for the dial were only meant as a temporary measure for testing purposes. Placing a single temporary index mark on the panel would have achieved the same result (determining it was 180º our of phase) with a single piece of tape (instead of 10). I am dying to know how the thing got to be out of phase like that. Keeping my eyes peeled for that video!

As a systems engineer, i think this kind of debugging is the best kind.

I have seen a lot of software developers who magically add a constant in the middle of some code. When asked they say they have to add 5 to get the right solution later on but have no idea why. Personally I think that was dreadful especially as this was for calculating trajectory for a defensive missile on a ship. If it goes wrong nobody can prove it was them that messed up. Yuck!!!

​@@mbak7801you'd be surprised how much of the things in the world rely on "if it works, it works!". You'd be driven mad like a character discovering an eldritch being in a cosmic horror novel.

@@Bleats_Sinodaitrue!

Totally agree

I love the problem solving method Adam went through, I try to help my mentees go through a similar process. When Adam decided to fix the problem the 'easy' way I was shaking me head and thinking, "but that just means there is a chance to assemble it incorrectly!".... Annnnd there it is. Personally, I would have left the tape fix on there until I was ready to go inside the gearbox and make the repair where the real problem is. That second hole in the knob is there forever now and may trip up a future rebuild.

With you on this . whatever is fitted to the other end must be 180 out and did not have an offset connection .

@@glensmith766I'd be inclined to tap the *incorrect* hole and put in a couple of grubscrews to prevent that splitpin from being installed in the wrong side. Or, if wanting to preserve that dial knob in original condition, make a replacement dial from scratch to use for now, until the gearbox could be corrected, then stick the OEM dial back on.

.

Diving into the gearbox opens a risk for creating a whole new set of issues. I"d plug the original hole in the knob so that it couldn't be used. I'd probably use something reversible, so that if I did eventually fix the true root cause inside the gearbox it could be re-used.

If only he'd asked a machinist. 🤦‍♂️

Yes, some you need to swap the 2 on the threaded drive for carriage. Also gotta start either odd or even on that dial that spins once threads are engaged EVERYTIME you make a pass. He should try threading up to a shoulder....sucks. rpm soooo slow. Thing was probaby crashed, twisted the carriage driveshaft?? That one ripped my t-shirt off of me before on an old Summit. Good times

@@AmericansWillRiseseen this many times over my career as a mold maker. Duffer getting out of his lane and trying to be something he is not! Ask for help from someone that is qualified.

@@DJPLAST2for me it’s more rewarding to troubleshoot and solve problems myself. I go out of my way to not ask for help on a problem until I’m totally stumped.

Other problem with calling a machinist is he’s gonna say sure I’ll fix it $150 bucks an hour plus or no I’m too busy to mess around with that cause I’m already entitled and spoiled by too much money for easy stuff. Machinists can be the worst

It's necessary lathe injuries are super common

And nothing more frustrating than failing to diagnose an intermittent fault.

It gets old. It is so self-conscious, repetitive, and wears poorly. Not that it is all staged. I believe it has a genuine core. But its frequency and intensity come off as a byproduct of so much time behind the camera and his role as the quirky member of the MythBusters team. For example, the pregnant pauses...We can all relate. But not to their frequency, especially in a video that he has to have given much thought to before he turns on the camera. It is not believable that he is having these "aha" moments spontaneously as film is rolling. These melodramatic storytelling devices slow down the narrative and just do not ring honest or true, but seem more like an actor trying too hard to stay in character. But each to his own. It is how I read it after having watched so many episodes of MythBusters.

@@kahlesjf So to your comment I would disagree whole heartedly. Adam appears to be a particular type of personality, and he has the additional quirk of exhibiting adhd and savant behaviors which is really common in very intelligent people. I myself am ADHD and I do these sorts of things often randomly as my mind gets distracted by something before going back to what I was doing, or as a side product of thinking out a problem. Some people mutter to themselves. What he's showing us is who he is without being ashamed of that fact. I do NOT believe it has anything to do with the Camera and, if anything he may be trying to reign it in. This is apparent when you watch MythBusters and I'm sure may have been a point of contention between him and Jamie if I were to guess. People with ADHD and this type of personality are hard to work with sometimes, and it's even harder to have a relationship with them, not because they don't care like everyone else but because we're just built differently. That's not a bad thing at all! It just means you need to be around other people who understand and get it so you can continue to be you without being judged by others. That's harder than you think and is evident in how you responded. Also you mentioned MythBusters as your point of reference. Again, that was likely him trying to do exactly what you're accusing him of here, and it probably was really hard and draining on Adam to pull it off. You're also assuming he put thought into anything at all before turning on the camera when, in fact, he likely had an Ah HAH moment and decided to click the camera on to record his thoughts. Was this prescripted? I'm sure it wasn't and did he retake to make the video more clean? Nope. This is about as unrefined as you can get and it's absolutely lovely! If he's anything like I am in the approach, there is often very little planning at all nor should there be because when you start planning what you're going to say, making retakes, etc. its no longer real. It's a fabricated experience sanitized for the internet. Being who you are requires zero planning, and far too many people today live fabricated lives rather than just being who they are. Keep being you Adam! I'm there with you and it's extremely refreshing to see someone who's being who they are instead of trying to be someone others, like @kahlesjf here feel you should be.

@@bulwulffcristole3235 As I mentioned in my original comment, I do not think it is all put on. But behaviors get shaped up, whether one has ADHD, any other condition that affects behavior, or no diagnosis at all. I believe it is a genuine aspect of his personality. I also believe that years in front of a camera, audience feedback, and enough positive attention for his quirkiness has lent a self-conscious and exaggerated aspect to his on-screen persona. It may even have happened so gradually that it is mostly sub-conscious now. He will affect others differently, people will disagree. Not a big deal in the scheme of things.

My favorite thing about watching the process real time through a video is looking back after the solution has been found and implemented and thinking about how obvious it seems with hindsight but how vastly overwhelming it can feel when initially digging into it

He didn't find the problem and maybe not a solution; after all he didn't try all the standard threads let alone metric. What he did was a jerry-rig. If there are change gears at the left end of the lathe, the solution probably lies there. The idea that the factory got it wrong is preposterous.

he also approaches it as we amateurs would approach the problem. I'm glad he brings it down for us non-machinists to understand. I wish I could get more like this.

This is soooo much cooler than Mythbusters, IMO

Yeah he definitely overthought it

Also, he could have just put an arrow on the machine body that points to the "correct" dial position instead of adding new numbers for each position on the dial. ;)

@@arkieguy1Except that would now be UNDER the dial, which if you are standing in front of the machine trying to see what the setting is: not ideal. The "here's the right setting" is at the top of the dial normally. Half a turn off is the opposite side.

Bingo

Adam look at the manual or something. Not this. 😢😢

I literally yelled aloud "no!" when he admitted his plan was to mill a second hole in the dial. I'm not a machinist by any measure, but a different point of failure seems so undeniable. I'm glad to hear somebody with an idea on it.

It's one of those "temporary" fixes. I can't imagine it being this old and not having functioned before. It solves a symptom, not the cause.

Why would it hop 180 degrees? Wouldn't it more likely skip a tooth or two? Seems more likely that somebody installed it in that position. I'm obviously not a machinist. Just doesn't make intuitive sense that a gear would hop 180 degrees.

only 2 teeth on the gear?@@attyschack

Some other commenters have pointed out, it's likely the configurable gears under the left panel, which are accessible because they're meant to be arranged for unusual threadings that aren't on the chart. That seems much more likely than a 180 degree slip.

It's flippable 180° but not infinitely adjustable

I hate how he does that. I'm not a child

I too love the way he explains. It really helps me remember important points. I also try to duplicate a similar demeanor that he has in his videos for myself when things are not going so well on a late night project.

I feel like this why we *really* come here to watch Adam.

Victor Borge would be proud!

@@StephenCole1916 Shouldn't that be "Victor Borge would be proud fssssssss pfick"

Correct. We outfitted a tool room with cheap-brand, cheap lathes (against my protestations). One brand new lathe, never used, would not properly cut American threads, but cut metric just fine. We immediately realized the builder did not verify Imperial unit threads, only metric. The local supplier could not fix. Corporate told us in no uncertain terms, the lathe was under warranty. Do not repair. The supplier must fix. Supplier's fix was to replace the lathe in 10 months and I had to pay shipping from averseas mfg out of my budget. No way! We looked at actual cut threads per inch, compared to chart, found the correct combinations, and glued laminated labels to the lathe for American Imperial units. As soon as the lathes and other equipment from that manufacturer were out of warranty, we sold them and used pre-planned budget money to purchase new American built machines. 25 years later, the American lathes are daily still running.

I see the metric numbers are in the same order as the SAE numbers, and they should be reversed as SAE is TPI and metric is pitch.

Poetic.

Well, the index wheel at least could be turned around 180 degrees on the shaft and maybe it will solve the problem. Edit: I have seen that the wheel can't be misinstalled 180 degrees off.

This seems to make sense

I know nothing about lathes but I was going to comment this exact thing.

It makes sense but is probably a manufacturer issue from day 1. I can't imagine designing a shaft that could have 2 mirror image ends where everything else still fits somehow. Would also explain why its been passed around a few times.

It occurs to me, that the simplest explanation for this problem is that when the dials were being made one was put in the jig upside down thus drilling the registration hole with opposite offset and everything afterwords was done correctly. It would be easy to prove if one could find an owner of the same machine and just have a look and say the offset is towards the #3 or towards the #6@@nathano2778

It's like when you have a micro-USB plug. You look at the plug, look at the socket, orient the plug to match the socket.... and it won't plug in. So you turn the plug 180 and try again....and it won't plug in. So you turn the plug back 180 so it's in the original orientation, and it plugs in first time! Happens to me every time.

So I posted the above early in the video before Adam began to diagnose the issue, and I am so confused how the exact same issue is apparent in both machines, even down to the roller pin scenario across totally different machines on totally different continents. This is just spooky, especially when Adam's solution was exactly what I thought about doing, before deciding my plan was "too jank" for 7:30pm and put on the backburner until I could come up with a better one. At least I know it'll work if I do it right, thanks Adam!

@@Poyntlesss Oh that's fascinating! I spent the last 20 minutes of the video shouting something at the screen that maybe you could check... that skirt/flange on the knob that has the numbers on it looks like it's a separate piece, press-fit to the main knob body. If so, I wonder if it can be removed, rotated and re-fitted in the correct orientation? Maybe it's a near-permanent fit, but it seemed like a possibly simpler explanation for the problem if it might have been previously re-assembled in the wrong orientation.

​@@AshleyGittinsI had same exact thought!

Great catch @@dave122288

if it's 180*... just use the read the number at the bottom of the dial instead? ?

do drs still diagnose. I thought it was tests and scans, handball off to specialist.

@@NathanCroucher a. A specialist is also a doctor B. Blood tests and scans are *part* of diagnosis

test results sent back having been reviewed by a specialist, thats not a "diagnosis". Its the answer. @@vinnymurphy1299

FYI 3dp PLA gears hold up pretty well. Just set the wall thickness to r/2.

The answer is here, Adam. I bet it is Set up for metric.

I'll add because it took me a second to figure out what that diagram was illustrating because the difference is very subtle, it's what gear should be engaged on the center shaft, the 44 or 56 tooth gear.

Yes. Check this^

you mean the compound slide.

He doesn't have a compound slide

Me too. I'm pausing at 10:40 to comment that my first approach, upon learning that it's cutting 16 tpi, would be to look at the difference in inputs between 18 and 16, to try and isolate the problem 😁Lo and behold the setting for 16 is a 7 instead of 3 on the dial. So the dial setting is likely where the problem lies.

Are you wondering about this type of problem applying your recent acquisitions?

Absolutely! In the “hierarchy of states” troubleshooting, the input to the gearbox FIRST. Input is by usually 3or 4 changeable gears, Most lathes show the change gears to use right on the threading chart. Just went back and looked, yup it’s right there at 6:57 (corrected). It’s also the rule of “wait, before I alter, have I eliminated the easy stuff first?”

@@timkohchi2048 I'm seeing it at 6:48 And if I'm understanding this correctly, because it took me a bit to figure out what was being talking about, it's the gear diagram next to the knob. It's subtle but what it shows is what gear should be engaged on the middle shaft, the 44 or 56 tooth gear.

Someone else commented: Check the change gears. While all threads are able to be cut without changing the gears, it appears as though your lathe has different gears for cutting worm drives. At the 7:00 minute mark I could see on the chart the engagement between gear 44 and 57 is different, right above the dial.

i think he might have made a perminent modification to his machine needlessly. The moment i found out that the nob was designed to only be connected in 1 fixed orientation, i would have reassessed possible user error.

@@sunsoar1822 Kind of what I was thinking. The other moment for me was when first looking at the change gear diagram, all the numbers were the same so at first I was dismissing it. But that was another instance of, well that doesn't make sense, why would it be there. And then a little confirmation bias with a successful work around. We could test this theory if someone that knows Adam could suggest a project that needs a worm gear.

I would bet now that he thinks about it he would have preferred not to alter the dial now it's also been weekend obviously the problem is internal the shaft on the gear needs to be rotated 180° for whatever reason it must've been taken apart at some point and not put back together correctly

@@noblsht Someone below suggested that there may be a sheared pin internally too.

This is what I was thinking as well. While it won't be a big deal even in the long run, the indexing that was originally the reason for the off-set pinhole is now lost. You could argue that it was lost regardless, but I would then argue that the incorrect indexing might have been a fixable problem, and permanent solutions to temporary problems aren't ideal.

Im sure he would happily make another dial when it started to bug him. Or he realized its still wrong...

"Doing it right" would this time have involved draining the gearbox of oil. Opening the gearbox, extracting the shaft the dial sits on, turn it 180° and insert it again. And that is providing you don't discover that it engages using something like a half moon, single spline or some other way to index a shaft. But lets say it can be turned over 180° and that you then close the gearbox and refill it with oil before you do a scratch test to see that you really inserted that shaft the right way around and didn't do what Adam did and put it back the same way it was, forcing you to repeat the process yet again. And when you are finally done and everything is correct then you can go to bed knowing you did it right. Would that really be worth it? And what if you discover that the shaft is indexed properly and can't be turned over 180°? And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if that's the case. What do you do then? Someone above mentioned that the knob doesn't look like it is made in one piece, but that the "skirt" with the numbers is a separate part. It might be possible to separate them and turn it 180°. It would be worth taking a close look to that dial. But Adam is not inexperienced, and I'm sure he looked quite closely at that knob when he had it in his hand. So the next idea would be to relabel it, but doing it so it looks nice and is permanent is quite a bit of work. My favorite idea would be to do as some people in the comments has suggested, move the arrow indicating the selected gear to the bottom below the knob straight across from the original. But that's not "doing it right" either so what do you do then? I have a feeling the factory had these knobs made with the hole for the roll pin in both directions and they installed the correct one after checking each machine. So it's possible it would be possible to get a knob that is correctly indexed for this machine. But after considering all of these things I think Adams solution was perfectly fine. It fixed the problem, and if anyone but Adam tear down the gearbox at any time in the future they will see that the knob can be installed two ways. If they can tear down that gearbox and get it back together again then they are most probably savvy enough to realize they have to check the orientation of the knob. But seriously I doubt this lathe will ever be tore down to have the gearbox renovated. It's a machine built for heavy used in a factory and the way Adam use it it will last for a hundred years more.

Why would they give gears that let you swap it to other numbers that are already on the dial though? Ship a different chart instead of different gears.

Hi, I think you missed the point, it would be for numbers that are not on the dial, or levers or the chart i.e. as Adam said there are numerous thread specifications, the "standard" set up allows you to make/cut common threads. The changing of the rear gears allows you to make custom threads etc. Most manufactures provided information and formulae in the machines manual or handbook so that you could calculate what rear gears would be required to be fitted to produce a specific pitch thread.@@lomiification

If you want to cut metric pitch threads on an imperial lathe you have to change the back gears.

Hi, yes sometimes, but many lathes such as Adam's are capable of metric or imperial without changing the back gears. @@alwynhumphries391

It's why blondihacks and thisoldtony are so popular. Mistakes are more useful to learn from than successes, and we can only learn from creators that include them in the video.

Programmers call that 'Rubber Ducky' programming; Explain the problem as if talking to someone who does not know a thing about your profession. Apparently some programmers will keep a rubber duck on their desk to explain any coding problems too.

I was thinking the same thing, even if it's just with some rubber plugs. That way if the problem is ever fixed internally, it doesn't have to be re-drilled once again.

until the next person goes in and flips it again.

The odds of having to ever pull that knob again are very small, I wouldn't worry too much about the extra hole.

@@AoDude Sound idea.

@@m16ty Agreed, the odds are negligible. but as @killingtimeitsel says, "until the next person goes in and flips it again.", The video shows a couple of days frustration, diagnosing and fixing. Admittedly, however, it also demonstrates problem solving and the immense satisfaction in succeeding.

Don't you get bored just feeding numbers in to a screen?