Watch this next! 5 Mistakes Buying Plywood - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/m6iSiKWq3rKrhpc.html

Based on my experiences with wet wood, the plywood will dry and keep a similar shape and strength whereas the mdf will bulge and stay bulged with significantly weakened strength.

One thing to remember about MDF soaking up water - it will swell and disfigure itself much more than typical plywood. Natural wood expands and contracts along the grain, but the alternating orientation of each ply helps minimize the amount that a finished product will swell. MDF has no such constraint, so while it may soak up water more slowly, it will eventually warp much more noticeably. This is especially apparent in bathrooms around baseboards. I've had to replace several MDF baseboards in bathrooms because they will soak up the ambient moisture in the room. Worse, once MDF is supersaturated, the excess moisture will leach into your drywall and you may wind up having to replace a portion of the wall, too. If you have kids who splash in the tub, or anyone who regularly forgets to turn on the bathroom fan to vent excess moisture, I would heavily recommend finger jointed pine or even upgrading to a tile/stone baseboard that compliments your flooring. If you have to spot repair and must use replacement MDF, I'd recommend sealing the backside and the bottom of the molding with a thin layer of caulk so that if you ever have to replace it again, the moisture does not wick into your drywall.

This is some great stuff brother. Would love to see testing pine vs oak vs poplar in 3/4" material ! Some common stuff that we all use! Curious about pocket hole joinery strength in basically anything too!

MDF is the original epoxy-table. Just with more pieces. Probably why I gravitate towards it.

Hard to do but sagging over time is one of my biggest concerns for MDF. One thing to add about its workability/strength is that small details have none.

I think your moisture test is not very good. The point is not to see how much water each product absorbs, but how much said water affects the strength of the product. In that respect, the pine and maple will be just fine with the water they absorbed. They'll dry and everything will be fine and dandy. The MDF however is compromised now, and you can't rely on it for anything.

My rule of thumb... MDF for jigs in the shop... Plywood for high use furniture projects. MDF can work really well as a veneer base for larger box lids that may have cupping if you use real wood or plywood. I've never had an issue making all of my sleds and jigs from MDF, and it saves a ton of money, and I often like the extra heft to dampen vibrations.

I believe your choice in wood depends on your skill level and your variety of tools. Your projects are always showroom quality in construction and appearance, so the more expensive maple is suited to your abilities. For those without a full workshop and basic tools in the around $250 or below range cheaper wood may be a preferred option. I'll be bummed making a mistake on MDF sheets but I'd continue on. Messing up a $90 sheet would be so discouraging I'd probably give up completely to cut my losses. If the project is for your own use, durability for intended purpose and cost are more important. I've made things out of MDF that are still holding up after 10 years and the only reason to consider re-doing them is because I believe I can now do it better. But not so much better that I take the chance of buying wood that cost 3 times as much.

Great information. One thing you did not consider in your testing is the cost of each sheet. Depending on the project, that would be an important factor. Just food for thought! Love your channel.

It's important to note on the water test that MDF deforms when water is absorbed. You can see it in the soak test that the section of MDF soaked in water actually swelled considerable where the plywoods did not. Just thought I would mention since it wasn't in the video. Something to consider for potential wet applications like baseboards and such.

You missed the most important consideration when talking about MDF. How it holds up in your finished piece if that piece ever gets wet. Spills, floods, leaks, etc. are a fact of life, and that's the main reason I usually stay away from MDF. Yes, it may not wet as easily, but when it does get wet, it basically just disintegrates, whereas most ply can usually handle some wetting and drying without delaminating. This means you can be much more confident that your finished piece will hold up to the rigors of time. There are places where MDF does make sense, and if properly protected from getting wet, it has its place, but if there is any possibility in my mind of it getting wet, I'm going for the ply.

I really enjoyed this video. Maybe you could do a second part that factors in types of projects (shelves, cabinets, etc.) and cost-to-performance?

Another great video, loved this breakdown! I've been watching your stuff for about 3 years now and I've got to say that you have, by far, the best editing of any other woodworking channel I'm subscribed to. Clean cuts and transitions, great close-ups for detail work, speeding up through the less interesting parts, and really enjoyable rolling commentary throughout. I really enjoyed the graphics on this one, adds a whole lot of character to the whole video. Just wanted to say that all your hard work in each video is clearly evident and thank you for all of the entertainment over the years!

The end screwing and joint strength can be easily overcome by assembly technique. I know a cabinet maker who uses mdf on any non visible side and it holds up great. You use a dado blade, glue the mdf into that, then screw it into small pine blocks through the face of each piece to hold until it dries/ to slightly reinforce it

Six years ago I redid the kitchen, building 42 cabinets (uppers and lowers) from MDF. Part of the remodel was creating a 12' by 8' "L-shaped" island. Joinery consisted of many hundreds of 2" long 1/4" dowels and glue. Face frames were made from poplar. The cabinets were all sprayed with white oil based primer and enamel on all sides and edges. I pre-built the kick/bases from pressure treated plywood, sealed with shellac and painted. I mounted and leveled the bases to the floor and then set the cabinets onto them. Then we had a 1-1/4" solid granite top installed with a 1" over hang in the front and sealed along the back edge. The island has a 12" overhang along two sides. So far so good. Still square and solid. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for this. This answered a whole bunch of questions for me that will help me choose the right material for an upcoming build.

Thank you for this video. It is very well made and shows an extraordinary amount of detail. Your attention to detail shows in the finished product!

Aw man what a great video. You answered some of the questions I’ve been asking for so long. This was extremely helpful. Thank you!

For MDF or particle board you can use Confirmat screws, To drill the hole you use a stepped bit specifically designed for these screws. I built all the kitchen cabinet in our first house, 30 years ago, using these screws and had no issues with splitting.

Just had the windows in my home replaced. Pulled off all the wood stained window casing and replaced the casing with 4” (actually 3.5”) MDF with 6” bottom horizontal pieces. It took one coat of primer and two coats of white Valspar semigloss. After install, I gave one more coat of paint with a brush to cover 18 gauge nail holes. Very pleased with the ease MDF was to work with. The wife like the brush stokes on the finish and it looks great.

Growing up my dad taught me "there are no bad materials, just bad applications." plywood vs mdf isn't a matter of one being better outright, but of when you should use them. If you're building a set of cubbies for a kids room, I'd probably build the shelf bottoms out of plywood, but the non structural parts can be MDF to save some money.

For staining pine I learned that if you use a "black tea stain" first, the color comes out a lot more evenly. Boil 1.5 cups of water, put 10 bags of Black Tea in it and let it steep for 30 minutes. Move to a container of your choice (mason jar in my case)and let sit for 12 hours. Apply with a foam brush, let dry, sand back down to 180nor whatever, then apply your stain if choice

At 2:25 “Voilà!” 😂. I saw it coming and still laughed. Well done Sir!

This is so precise 👀 bravo for the detail my good sir lol amazing video. I learned a lot, thank you!

I love these comparison videos! I've been watching Barry Lewis's Cheap vs Steep series where he compares the same recipe with the cheapest ingredients vs the most expensive ingredients. Maybe you could do something similar? Cheap glue vs expensive glue, jigsaw blades, etc

Fantastic video and really interesting from a New Zealand point of view. As an avid home handyman building KZfaq watcher, I have always laughed at the price you pay for maple and birch ply and the fact mdf seems to be poorly regarded in the US / Canada. For the average home handyman, mdf is all we can afford in New Zealand. I have just done a price check on maple plywood in NZ. An 18 mm sheet was $US208 from one place that actually gave the price. Most places, you had to ʻAsk for a quote" as they didnʻt want to be responsible for heart attacks if people saw the price on line. Same 18mm sheet in mdf is $US47!!! I actually live about 5 miles from the first MDF factory built in the Southern Hemisphere and it was interesting to visit on an open day one Sunday a long time back. The radiata pine is chipped up into real fluffy stuff about a foot high which is then compressed down into 1 inch approximate board with glue injected, and then cut and sanded on large wide flat belt sanders to the required size. As others have said, mdf is no good outside long term, even if painted well. One other thing Iʻm not sure if anyone has mentioned but Iʻve never been able to pocket hole screw into mdf successfully. What is very disturbing here in NZ is that where once upon a time joinery factories were making tables, pantries, etc using melamine covered mdf sheeting (hope you know what this is?) most have now replaced this with melamine covered low quality chipboard, I guess for price reasons... Absolute rubbish build quality. Love to know where the radiata plywood came from? Iʻm looking our my window at some radiata pines and it is all you see on our logging trucks these days. Heaps is exported from NZ. I had to get some plywood a while back to build a big outdoor storage unit for childrenʻs bags at my wifeʻs school. Despite all the timber milling in NZ, it came from Chile!!! Thanks again for a great video from way down in NZ!

great video! everything is a compromise! apart from the dust, my only grumble with MDF is how squishy it gets if it gets damp! Thanks for taking the time to create, edit, and share! :)

Hi great video very interesting also I have seen a video where a tv and wall bracket was used to hang on a 12 mm M D F is it ok to use MDF for hanging a tv?

You could improve your staining results on the pine by using a softwood pre-conditioner. It helps quite a bit with the blotchiness. (If you're stuck with it for whatever reason…)

Love ur work. Can u tell me about that trolley/gadget that you loaded the sheets onto from your car? I have one arm and handling sheets is difficult

I was waiting for this video Appreciate the video.

Great video! Would love to see more tests like this but maybe with a more applied angle. Maybe testing weight capacity for different methods for making drawer bottoms? Strength of different types of joinery/fasteners?

Great test

Here's an idea: build a cabinet with shelves from different materials. Put a decent amount of weight on each. Let em sit for a few months, tell us how much they're sagging

New to your channel and I'm learning a lot! One comment on this test... I did some consulting at a major Pac NW plywood manufacturer, and at an MDF plant, not relating to the actual manufacturing butt to quality control observation. And I was super impressed with their processes. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I don't think all manufactures are of equal quality. Seems obvious, but I have to point it out. Keep up the good work!

Good test, no big surprises. I like MDF when I build "Shaker style" cabinet doors and drawer fronts for the insert panel. Solid wood for the frame.

A tip I heard sometime back for painting plywood (and other wood surfaces) was to take a damp (not wet!) sponge over it before you paint, enough that it sticks around for five minutes or so before drying, and let it raise up the grain. Sand that back down and the final finish will appear much smoother because what is *going* to raise up already has. The MDF may have performed well (apparently) on that wet edge test but take it from me, it is worse than maple. It doesn't travel up but it makes the material expand and lose integrity. That makes it obviously distorted and much more susceptible to damage (especially on the bottom corner of a dresser or something after an aquarium incident or bad weather during driving while moving it). Wonder how OSB compares...

MDF very good for anything that needs to be really flat. Or easily painted. Also very easy to use a router on.

I use MDF for jigs, sleds, and when building speaker cabinets and subwoofer boxes. Though i did make a pair of 4' tall Transmission line speakers out of Baltic Birch and they came out amazing.

This was insightful, detailed and fun to watch! I am looking to get a bookshelf made and I couldnt figure out for the life of me if plywood or mdf is better ...this helps make the decision ... I still need to figure.out if a tall narrow bookshelf will hold in flatness or bend..

Great video so glade you did this test before I started making a bunch of cabinets. Wanted to ask you what that tilt cart was you used to get the sheets out of your truck. I need one of them asap. Keep the advice coming love them. So what would you use even though you hate DUST to make your cabinets knowing what you know after your test. TY

Very interesting video Brad & I am with you on the MDF! I have watched so many videos where wood joints are tested. However, if you want to do more of these types of videos, you could test the strength of joinery suck as dowels, biscuits, dovetails, etc.... Anyway, Happy Holidays to you and your family!

With the water test one thing you didnt take into account is that MDF doesnt dry the same way a plywood does, once water gets in it starts to degrade the glue and the entire thing just starts to rot a lot faster than other materials. This isnt really something you can really test in a day when the stuff you are making with these materials are supposed to last years or decades.

On this subject you should do a long term test with 80-100ish pounds on a shelf and see how much it sags over time... you could do a second set of shelves and spritz with water ever so often to cover all the bases

Regarding flexing, the more plies the more flex resistant the sheet is. I don't like my 18mm sheets (sorry, live in a metric country) to have 9 to 11 plies.

Great video! Thanks for all the effort!

Brad, as always, great and informative content! You won me over on the Maple plywood. Agree with you wholeheartedly on the MDF dust! Your shop looks great and you alwasy have interesting tools and gadgets which gives me all kinds of ideas! Keep 'em coming!

thanks for the comparison. Can I use plywood to cover the stair (indoor)? Is it an alternative to solid wood?

Well done bro,...very infomative 💪👍

Your videos are great! Thanks Brad!

The water test was super useful for me (as a muralist that paints on board and attaches it to a wall later on) Thanks -

You have shared useful tips and tutorials. Thanks.

Thanks for this informational video!! Much appreciated!

I have found if you use Shellac on MDF, it makes for a very nice surface. Worked well on my workbench and made it heavy!

Merci pour les tests ! Vraiment très intéressant 👍

Hey , enjoyed the piece. You mentioned hard edge banding on longer shelves. I have a garage cabinet build with 48" ish spans and have thought about trying that technique. Have you done any strength testing on longer spans with this method? And is poplar or pine strong enough or is there an even better choice?

I've found MDF has greater expansion and contraction due to humidity, so I don't prefer it for trim work. Would be an interesting test to add!

Great video, thank you! What are your thoughts on using a Gel stain on the different wood types? Would it make stainability much better for the pine plywood?

Pretty sure i put MDF in my attic for storage space. I didnt know any better but it was nice and smooth which was nice bc it made sliding tubs across it a lot easier

Excellent video Brad!!! I finally got time and I watched the whole thing!!!! We get requests for laser cut door hangers....we are about to think that exterior painted 1/4" MDF is the way to go! I think that will hold up about as good as the ply will.

omg, i didin't even work with this, but o my so good to watch. made my brain happy, thank you

Great video, thank you for doing some in depth comparisons between the 3. Its always fun to see these kind of tests and results. Yea totally agree with you on the MDF, I really loathe making anything out of it thats more than a simple jig becauseof the dust. In my opinion, the only good thing about MDF is that its flat and cheap.

Thank you for doing this video. I learnt a lot. I wonder how melamine chipboard/particleboard would do against these tests.

That expensive maple plywood from Home Depot typically has enormous voids in it. I had Maple/Poplar plywood that looks the same as yours, and when routing it, I kept finding biscuit-sized voids in the various layers. It would definitely pringle as well. I doubt it has gotten better in the past 10 years. I switched over to slightly more expensive baltic birch from a local supplier. Yes, more expensive, but not having the stuff all bent and twisted after a day made it much easier to work with and use for cabinet sides. I'm sure you know, but when working with MDF, you need to predrill and also use specific screws if you want to help avoid splitting. Super popular in Europe, but they are all set up for working it. The MR MDF, which is so popular over there, is hard to find here unless you go to a specialty shop. (My BB supplier also carries MR MDF) MDF is great for painting. Tough on your lungs. But also very tough on your blades. Then again, anything pine is going to get a lot of pitch on the blade.

What you are calling Maple is actually Poplar core right? With a maple veneer. Would have been better to compare maple on a birch core for some real contrast.

I noticed that the birch maple is a 5 ply as opposed to the 7ply of the radiata. Could tat also make a difference to the strength of your boards?

One thing I noticed as well for the strength between the two plywoods, since the radiata pine is a higher-ply wood it will be stronger, more layers will commonly increase strength. Something to consider for strength tests

Thanks for the video. However, what you referred to as the strength test is actually the elasticity test. That is how much a beam deflects under a certain load (and you test it for geometrically identical beams but with different materials). Strength test, on the other hand, is when you increase the load until the beam fails (which has nothing to do with the elasticity). This way you can determine whether a beam is STRONG enough to bear a certain load or not.

i love your chanell man cool stuff thanks for sharing

Great video, Brad! Very interesting comparison. Like you, I'm not a fan of MDF but you have given me SOME faith in a couple uses for the (evil) fiber product. NEXT Comparison Video: Compare strength & longevity of equivalent screws in wood.

For the radiata pine if you use prestain conditioner it's gives a fairly uniform look. I kind of like the urithane over pine too especially as it ages that glowing yellow look appeals but it takes a few years to get there. I usually if using pine just get southern yellow pine to start and prefer birch plywood for everything else

awesome testing, would like to see more, thanks! also you can get moisture resistant mdf

That panel cart looked amazing!

amazing content! subscribed!

Very nice video showing pros and cons for each. I would've been curious about seeing baltic birch added to the testing!!!

I've made some arcade cabinets from MDF and plywood. I can see the concerns. But also its pros. Easy to paint. Just have to seal the edges because it will soak up paint and give you a bad color. But once sealed with Bondo or spackle, it paints great; you can get it to a mirror finish very easily. I think because the MDF soaks up the paint very well on the ends, it could have done better on the joint test had you used even more glue for it. As most of the glue was absorbed into the MDF and not leaving a lot for the actual bond. Workability did have some issues with the MDF, particularly milling/routing. It takes a long time to mill/route out parts on the MDF. And the use of chisels to clean up was much harder. The chisels had a much easier time cutting through the plywood and even hardwood than it does MDF. Plywood was always a problem with bowing, even on smaller pieces of plywood. Made a small box with dados and rabbit joints, and the plywood really warped due to the use of dados.

Great thumbnail Brad. Stopped me dead in my scroll.

Where did you get the plywood cart from. Thanks Mike

5 stars for the Mike Tyson's Punch Out references! Loved that game so much 😁🥊🥊 I totally agree on the MDF and dust issue. It's damn near insidious. Drilling is not an issue but sawing and sanding... Mask every time. Saw dust is bad for your lungs but the glue is super bad for your lungs. Overall this was a good test. But exhaustive but good. There's a lot you can do to protect MDF from moisture. It's a damn shame moisture resistant MDF isn't common or widely available in the US. It is very common in Europe. Hmmm... I wonder why 🤔 Probably because the plywood industry doesn't want it used in cabinetry. Colored MDF is very hard to get too.

This was really interesting. I would be interested to see, also, each of the samples dunked in water a day later. To see how/if each shrank back to its original shape or if it was permanently swollen.

Great video and demonstration, love it 💚💯🔥

Love ur vids. Full of infotainments. Keep up the good work. Imma share tis to my social accs

THANK GOD I FOUND THIS, THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS

It's horses for courses... there will be use cases for each and it really comes down to knowing the properties of each material and the requirements of the item you are crafting. As such, this is a great video for illustrating the properties of these materials!

As a plywood producer, I'm here to help you choose the right plywood when you visit the store. First, note that there are two types of glue used in plywood: phenol-formaldehyde and urea-formaldehyde. Phenol-formaldehyde offers high water resistance and is superior, but more expensive. Urea-formaldehyde lacks water resistance. Second, consider the thickness of the veneer layers. A half-inch plywood with 5 layers is less sturdy than one with 7 layers. The thinner the layers, the stronger and more expensive the plywood. Lastly, plywood can be made from coniferous or deciduous trees. Coniferous plywood usually has better glue quality but lower mechanical strength, while deciduous plywood is the opposite. However, there are exceptions. Above all, pay attention to the manufacturer, as product quality can vary significantly between different brands.

Great video. Do you have something on Formica glued over plywood for making doors?

great review! thanks!

I like the Radiata Pine it's cheap for shop furniture and it holds up over time so i can use hard woods in the house.

As a fellow Avalanche owner, I recognized that 2nd Gen Avy at 0:27! Great rig, their versatility is second to none. Always a shame they stopped producing them.

What about mites ? After a few years the wooden furniture may develop mites and pests. So which material works well in case of mites etc.

great video. thnx

Price and stability hands down is the main reason the MDF is used. Most shop fitting is done with MDF, certainly here in the UK.

Interesting. Thanks

you can save A LOT more money if you just make the whole sheet of MDF yourself. like at 2:21

I just bought a few plans for shop projects from you. Do you think MDF would hold up on for the miter saw stand?

I agree, MDF has its place in woodworking but, where weight and flex is a concern it sucks. Car stereo shop installers still use MDF for subwoofer boxes and door speaker installs due to its ability to shape easily, but it weighs a lot and hampers vehicle performance. If you go to shows like Slamology, you’ll see the Pros use multilayer birch, (usually 11-layer Baltic Birch), due to its weight and resistance to flexing. Plus, a lot of higher end furniture is made from Baltic Birch as well. In my bus build I used primarily Baltic Birch, despite its higher cost, due to its strength and weight. On the original build up I used all pine and MDF from HD and my total weight was 23k pounds. After the rebuild with the BB, (and added more cabinets), my total weight dropped to just over 20k. IMO, paying extra for higher quality plywood, (from a good wood supplier like Woodcraft), is worth the cost as all your projects will both look better and be stronger than anything you get from HD or Lowe’s.

Greetings from South Africa. Really enjoy your channel and all the tips and tricks.

Great video man! :)

Is the Radiata pine plywood the same thing as Baltic Burch plywood? To me it kinda looks the same how do they compair in price?