I'll never forget, 19 years old, year out of high school. I was a foreman for a roofing company and was given a brand new F-350 superduty tool/material truck. When I drove it home empty, it was so stiff and rode like crap. The next day, when I loaded that baby up with the 40' blue tip ladders, compressors, plywood, shingles, 30lb paper, and 90lb ice guard and all the other stuff it drove like a dream.

In Oregon and Washington, most of the roadside truck weigh stations leave the scale turned on when they’re closed. You can weigh your rig yourself for free, right off the highway. It’s super convenient and a good idea if you’re towing.

The break makes a lot of sense, that camper is huge and I see a lot of weight behind the rear wheels.

The size of that camper is absolutely insane like I couldn’t believe that would be okay in the back of any truck get a trailer like

Handles it "just fine" if you asked him right before he broke it in half.

I can still remember when Ford made a F250 they called The Camper Special. It had a stronger frame than a regular F250.

The offset weight to the rear was the killer.

I was the assistant manager of a lumber yard/ hardware store & was constantly telling people not to overload their pickup trucks & trailers, just because a pallet of concrete fits in the back of a one ton truck,doesn't mean you should put it on there! A pallet of ready to mix concrete has 42 bags of concrete that weigh 80 pounds each,if we do the math, that's 3,360 pounds of concrete,not counting the weight of the heavy duty wood pallet that typically weighs 40 lbs! So that brings the total weight of a standard pallet of concrete to 3,400 lbs! That's 1400 lbs over a ton of weight! I can't tell ýou how many times I have seen people& some " professional " truck drivers overload their trucks & trailers!

That camper hangs off as far as it goes into the bed. That’s an INCREDIBLE amount of leverage force on the middle of that frame.

My lessons from trucking are how the truck DRIVES. There's a very big difference in ANY truck unloaded, loaded light, loaded heavy and OVER weight. He HAD to feel the truck was not driving or feeling well or right. I own the Ram 3500 SRW and a semi and have had both at max capacity. They almost talk to you when they feel stable and when they don't. Don't ignore what they tell you!

I talked to an electrical utility lineman 20 years ago. I noticed that his work Ford F-450/550 had the V10 gasser instead of a Powerstroke. He said they did that on purpose because of the payload rating. With the heavier Powerstroke, the frames would break over time. The truck had a massive bed on it with a cherry picker and several transformers.

Wow! This has been all over the internet, but you guys had the most information as to what actually caused the incident. Great informational video... thanks guys!!

I believe the weight was a bit much but I believe it bent where it did because of how much weight was behind the truck.

Same type of guy that says: “she hauls it like nothing” & “can’t even tell it’s back there”. 😭😂

A common set up with slide in campers is to also tow a boat with it behind the truck. It will be very interesting to see the performance going up the Ike gauntlet with a slide in camper and a boat in tow.

I remember when campers like this were quite popular… I don’t know how things are now but back in the day you’d order a truck from the factory with the camper option.. the camper option gave you additional leaf springs and a reinforced frame!

Everybody needs to look up the Ford F-250 "Camper Special" from back in the 60's and 70's and look where they put the rear axle. They rode rough when empty but very smooth with a large camper.

Back in the day when manufacturers didn't make their frames barely strong enough to meet spec, these issues were pretty rare.

I would love to see you guys make some videos revolving around these big slide in campers and how they impact heavy duty truck performance.

It’s things like this that makes me happy that I have my 1984 Dodge Ram truck and that thing is bulletproof.

payload is one thing, load dispersion is another! the overhang on this truck is just massive

You also have to consider that wind loading will add a lot of pressure to the frame. When wind hits the camper at speed it will naturally want to "lift" the camper up and off of the bed. If you visualize in your head the weight hanging off of the back end combined with the upward wind load in the front it would look like a see saw. The end result is when enough force is realized, it will tip backwards. I would imagine the force on the frame was pretty tremendous forward of the rear axle.

Just remember too that many truck manufacturers use the truck configuration that give the biggest numbers (towing and payload) when they are advertising and selling. It may be a model that not too many people buy. From experience the dealership doesn’t always give correct information (both truck and RV).

This isn't really about basic payload, it's all about the weight that's cantilevered behind the rear axle. Effective payload can be multiplied when it is cantilevered. Every lb cantilevered past the rear axle creates a moment multiplied by the distance past the rear axle ( think Ft lbs on a torque wrench) the longer the torque wrench the greater the turning moment on a nut. Think of the axle as a nut and every lb past the axle is balanced by an equal lb in front of the axle at an equal distance. This increases the weight on the rear suspension by more than the total weight of the cargo. You eventually begin to use the whole weight of the truck ahead of the rear axle to counter the weight behind the rear axle. So the engine, the front cab chassis suspension fuel tank start to counter the weight past the rear axle. This front counter weight begins to shift from being loaded on the front wheels to being loaded on the rear wheels. If you look at the vehicles front axle GVWR and the rear Axle GVWR you would find that this setup greatly exceeds the rear axle GVWR. The payload you read in a simple owners manual calculation assumes most the cargo is between the front and rear axle and as such is shared between both axles. This is not the case when cargo Is hugely cantilevered past the rear axle just like this camper. The people who sold this camper to this guy should know better, as well as the manufacturer, but also this guy did not do his homework or was mislead or doesn't understand how real world payloads are calculated. If ever you are buying a trailer or calculating payload and your looking for a simple answer to whether or not your vehicle can handle that weight, think again. Real payload calculations can be tricky. It takes experience and sometimes a tape measure and scales or knowing the centre of gravity and weight of each item you carry. Otherwise just stay well within the total limits to be safe like 60% max. Trailer hitches and tounge weights are all different depending on the trailer style. Rarely are any 2 created equal. No 2 hitch recievers are equal either. 5th wheels and gooseneck are far better than hitches etc etc.

My 2020 F250 was weighed empty with full tank of gas then with empty camper then fully loaded and 2 passengers. It’s amazing how fast the weight adds up.

I’m old. If you go back 40-50 years non of us paid any real attention to payload or max trailer pulling. We used our trucks and never ever had a frame fail and they were not fully boxed frames with high strength steel. We use to haul 14 cords of green firewood, 4 on the truck and 10 in the trailer. The total weight was probably, with trailer) 30,000 lbs. I’m amazed the camper manufacturer didnt specify which trucks could handle this specific setup?

Our 2001 f450 has a 14' steel flatbed, a miller welder, a compressor generator, 4 fully loaded under bed tool boxes, a 60 gallon def tank and a 500 gallon diesel fuel tank! I weighed just the front axle and it was sitting at 7800lbs. We abuse the truck and we are looking at medium duty trucks for a replacement but we've never had an issue and I think it was largely due to having the weight over the the rear and center of the frame and the fact that it was a c channel frame and not a boxed frame. Torsional flex is good it keeps things from cracking, there is a reason semi trucks don't use a fully boxed frame.

That Ram with that huge TC looked like an ant with a giant breadcrumb..

Assuming he was within payload, the distribution was WAAAAY off. I suspect a lot of the water, slide outs and fuel tanks (camper) are behind the rear axle of the truck, with the bikes on there also, made the rig wicked tail heavy. I wonder how much directional stability was affected with the front being relatively lite compared to the rear.

Guys - that camper spec sheet listed the Center of Gravity. That is a distance, usually from the front of the camper for you to measure on your truck bed to determine if the camper is balanced correctly for the truck.

Thanks for video .

Back in 2003, I was shopping for a truck camper. I went to 6 different camper stores in the northeast. 4 of the 6 stores tried to sell me the biggest camper they could. Also, they assured me that my truck would have no problem handling the campers they were pushing on me. Some camper dealers were even trying to sell me a camper that should only go on a 1 ton duelly. My truck is a 97 f250hd supercab 4x4 7.3 powerstroke diesel single rearwheel. One camper was almost double my payload capacity. Then, when something like this happens, it becomes a finger-pointing shit show. You can not trust anyone. Especially a salesman. It's easy to assume that if you own a 1 ton duelly, you can put any truck camper on it because why would a truck camper manufacturer make a camper that is heavier than a 1 ton duellys payload capacity. Ultimately, it is the truck owners' responsibility to do their homework. Also, the factory recommended payload capacity is for a new, healthy, rust free vehicle. Over time, with wear and tear, your payload capacity will gradually diminish to some degree.

If only someone would invent a trailer that has all the comforts of home

There's a reason it's called foot pounds. For every foot extended past the rear of the vehicle, the weight of the object is effectively multiplied. The weight of the camper alone was already pushing the limits. With how much weight is behind the rear axle at that distance, it's kind of surprising the driver didn't notice any steering issues.

you take it to a proper frame shop, and they'll cut, straighten, and re-inforce any spots necessary. same thing happened on a tow truck at a shop i worked at before retiring. winching somebody out, boom too high, and heavy engine. not quite as extreme, but a frame shop fixed it, much cheaper than a full replacement that the dealer wants.

Your comment about camper CG...as far as I am aware, that CG distance is usually listed in the manufacturer's manual and probably on the outside sticker. Mine is.

It's clear that the center of gravity of his camper and equipment is behind the rear axle because it bent/broke upward. Way too much static weight hanging off the back end there. Plus the air resistance pushes against the top of the camper contributing to even more dynamic load in the same direction. Ouch.

Yeah, that RAM owner did NOT research his vehicle enough before getting that behemoth of a camper. Don't blame the truck, blame the owner.

That is a good advert for the cybertruck. The Ram folds up like a deck chair with weight in the back.

Great review. Love your channel and information. This situation seems to me as much more than just payload. You touched on it briefly with the center of gravity diagram, which I think in this case is at least as significant as the weight. There is also the "Sail" pressure and the torque it applies to the load, basically from the wind constantly pushing against the top of the camper while driving down the road and highway speeds. I'll speculate that these three factors are working synergistically to create this particular issue. If the weight is even under, but close to the payload capacity, and the Center of Gravity is close to the rear axel, there will be enough sail pressure to torque that frame beyond it's limits, especially after 25000 miles. I'd love to see a computer model of this in action. Thanks again and keep up the great work!

Sorry for Mike's misfortune and I hope he can get his frame repaired / replaced for less than 17K. Grateful no one was injured and perhaps this will be a lesson for all TFL viewers on the importance of payload capacities.

"So much torque, the chassi twisted coming off the line" Dom Torreto.

Super Duty pickups are all over Texas, and most of them are used as commuter vehicles. Drive them to the office job, drive them home. Drive them to the grocery store. Pick the kids up at school. Once in a wile, pick up some lumber or bags of mulch at Home Depot. The payload could be 1,000 pounds, and it would probably never come close to maxing out.

I had a hard time making out the repair estimate. If it was $70,000, the truck is obviously totalled, but if it was $17,000, I would consider that to be a bargain, considering everything that would be involved in rebuilding the truck.

Weight hanging behind the bed is not payload. It is high torque flex inducing dangerous weight. People putting camper inserts on trucks are beyond delusional and nobody will cover that damage

@12:19 That's a pretty good idea! A slide-in camper that size would be an incredible load to run on the Ike Gauntlet. Dude! I think you're onto something here.

Makes me think of all the trucks I see rolling down the road with huge campers hanging off the bed and long tow hitch extensions with a heavy boat hooked up! Imagine 700 lbs of tounge weight 36” behind the bumper! Not to mention that camper probably has at least 2 heavy batteries, 50 gal water tank, couple big propane tanks, and a thousand lbs of clothes, food and camping gear!!😮

Ram's towing guide also has the baseline payload for each model/cab/engine/drive configuration in the towing guide it makes it easy to get a number that should be within ~300lbs of your final vehicle

This is because schools don't teach physics anymore. When I was in 5th grade, I learned about levers, moment of inertia, and (essentially) what happens when you hang a thousand pounds eight feet behind the rear axle of a pickup truck.

There’s photos online of the cracked frame on this truck I believe if you look closely a aftermarket frame bracket was welded right where it cracked. When you weld on these frames you have to be very careful cause when you weld it hardens the frame witch can make it brittle another reason why we only bolt to frames when mounting flatbeds

Might be one of the best advertisements for 5th wheels i've seen in a while.

That electric bike was the straw that broke the camels back. Lol

That's the Eagle Cap! That's a monster of a camper, almost as big as the Host Mammoth!

I can't get over how massive that camper is. If you really love camping that much, get a travel trailer...

Guys: 1) The sheet you put up on the screen had camper CG at 66.5" 2) When you order a pickup, the dealership has access to the constructor calculator, so you know what the configuration can carry. 3) Either you build the truck to the load, ordering a semi goes this way, Ford has the calculator as well, so do the rest, or you order the truck, then pick a load that doesn't go outside your CG range/weight range. Your choice. Best wishes from the far North.

Several points about payload. #1, options on the truck DO NOT affect "payload"! "Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings are affected by "Some" options on the truck, but "payload" is the sum of the GVWR's minus the actual weight of the truck as optioned at the factory. In other words, (as you stated, Ram has several GVWR's for their 3500 series trucks), a truck with a manufacturer's GVRW of 15,000 # that weighs 7000# dry weight has a payload of 8000#. But from that 8000#, you then have to subtract the fuel, the sum weight of the driver and passenger(s), and any incidental items in the passenger compartment. Then, you have to subtract any upgrades or accessories added to the truck after purchase. These incidentals can easily subtract up to 1000 -1500# from the manufacturer's cargo rating. The hypothetical I opined was 8000#, subtract that 1500#, and that leaves a cargo rating of 6500# that the hypothetical truck can carry in the bed. So long as the % of the vehicle's actual weight balanced on the rear axle and the 6500# of cargo weight do not exceed the manufacturer's weight rating of the rear axle. Much like commercial trucks, gross vehicle weight is only a part of the story. If you load and then weigh your entire vehicle, you can be under the trucks' GVWR, and yet still be over your axle weight. In loading a truck, you have to know; 1, how much the vehicle weighs with the driver behind the wheel. 2, how much of the vehicle's actual weight is on the front axle, again driver behind the wheel, and 3rd, how much of the vehicle's weight is on the rear axle, with the driver behind the wheel. Then, when you put that hypothetical 6500# in the bed of that truck, you have to position it so that weight is distributed evenly on both axles without exceeding the weight rating, specified by the manufacturer for the front and rear axles. It is obvious from the picture that an estimated 95% or more of the weight of that camper was loaded on the rear axle of the truck. Given that the truck in question was a crew cab and probably had the diesel engine, had he weighed the truck, it probably was right at the vehicle's GVWR and likely was at it's axle weight or overloaded on the rear axle. Given the load, the balance of the load, the torque from the diesel engine, and any frame flex from rough terrain, that is why the frame failed on his truck. It pays to remember that no matter how big and bad that "dually pickup" looks, in the world of trucks, it's still a "light truck" !

Bet that thing's got an awesome breakover angle tho

Guys, the center of gravity of the camp is shown in the camper specs you showed us in this video at 4:24, 61.5”. Now add the weight of the three waste water tanks and the fresh water tank and WOW, broken truck.

We call these truck shipping crates for a reason. Its a quick disconnect for the back half of the crate for easy removal of the drivetrain.

I have seen one guy who didn't want to deal with this nightmare scenario so he had a custom welded frame of simple padded beams on a flatbed trailer and just plopped the camper on top. then he got creative by adding auxiliary freshwater and blackwater tanks to double the capacity. He added storage lockers, a mount for the barbecue grille and even a generator. Makes me wonder how long one could camp from that setup. All I know is it was NOT cheap.

He is the kind of guy that just says "I want the biggest of everything" and the salesmen all just shook their heads as he left.

One of the thing I see is that the camper should have been on a long bed truck not a short bed as it looks like in the picture. Just too much hanging off the back of the truck increase the torque which on each bounce going down the road increased the payload.

It's not a payload issue. The rated payload is for a static load ON THE BED, not a load hanging eight feet behind the axle. The frame is not designed to have a bending moment like that. A 400 pound bike and carrier on the end of an eight foot lever will appear like more than a 1000 pound bending force on the frame, and many times that if the truck is driven on an uneven road. That's why the truck folded up.

water alone is close to 10 pounds a gallon, so you can fill your tank and add a LOT of weight you many not think about. I tend to travel with and empty tank since mine is equal to about 3 people when full. Great video and love the detailed explanations and info!

Well, canterlever 2000 pounds 6 feet behind the bumper and yeah, the frame will crack. They aren't made to handle those kinds of loads. There is a motorcycle and a slide on the back of that camper well beyond the bumper. You can put 6K on the receiver with a WDH without issues, but not 2K 6' behind the bumper! On ANY pickup truck regardless who made it.

I read about this recently. Driver mentioned he had a lot of cargo in camper. The report commented he was at max.

People don't understand what a load capacity is. I once had a truck come in for a steering system complaint. The tool box and the crane exceeded the weight capacity of the truck. Also the weight has to be evenly distributed over the axle favoring the center of the 2 axles. Essentially the total weight has to be the same at the four tires or close putting the heavier load between the two axles as the last of the load hanging off the non-axle area. It's a law of physics that I forgot the name of. There is a good example of it at the U-Haul website.

I was on the interweb and a father/son team bought a 2023 Chevrolet? PU with 1700 miles from a salvage lot. It was totalled because it was hit in the left front suspensilon and the frame was kinked. Insurance estimate was $16,000. They paid $52,000. Chevrolet said a frame was available. They will replace it themselves.

Apparently, he had the front hold down mounts welded to the factory frame where it spilt. So, most likely the issue with improper welding to a factory frame. Pre-heat issues weakened the frame.

Glad you's explained some of this. Not only does the weight of all the extras have a bearing on the payload but also the leverage the weight has gained due to the longer frames with the 4 door long box etc.

I own a 1987 GMC K3500, which has a GVWR 10,000 pounds. I also bought a 1987 Vacationeer camper which has a four foot overhang on the rear and a king size bed over the cab. The King size bed makes the front overhang six feet long. A lot of campers which overhang the rear bumper have the gray and black water tanks under the overhang, which adds a lot of weight to the overhang if traveling with water in the tanks. I never have had any problem, besides the 6.2 diesel engine is week, when traveling. Twice while traveling I have taken my rig to the scales and came up with these figures. My first time over the scales was 28 June 1989 when it was just my wife and I. My Gross Weight was 12,100 pounds with the Steer Axle at 4,400 pounds and the Drive Axle at 7,700 pounds. The second time was on 24 July 1997 when the oldest of our two children was seven. My Gross Weight was 12,780 pounds with the Steer Axle at 4,520 pounds and the Drive Axle at 8,260 pounds. As you can see the 89 trip I had only 36.36% of the weight on the steer axle and on the 97 trip I had only 35.35% of the weight on the steer axle. You will also notice I was as much as 2,780 pounds over my GVWR weight rating. With a four foot rear overhang and a six foot front overhang, I do not know where the Center of Load (COL) is on my camper. Of course if both the gray and black water had any water and waste in them, it would shift where the COL is located. This shift could in the camper stats you showed could shift the 60 gallons of fresh water in the front of the camper to the waste tanks in the rear. This shift could shift 420 pounds from the front of the bed of the truck to the four foot area overhanging the rear of the truck. A huge shift in load and leverage of the weight toward the rear.

Modern rigs are precisely engineered to be just barely adequate. My ex-Navy 1966 International 1300 4x4 had a door plate saying 9,000 max GVW (light for a one ton) and its weight varied from 5,300 to 6,800 depending on winch, bumpers, sideboards, etc. I ran it over a scale once at 12,180 with well over a cord of wood in it. Sure the springs sat down, but the Dana 70F front and 10,000 lb. Timken rear axle handled it. And I had NO worries about the frame (those 7.50-17 tires on split rims were a concern). The old rigs had a safety factor built in; they weren’t so stingy with raw materials. Stop buying this overpriced new crap. Get an older truck you enjoy, put a few grand into fixing it up, and ENJOY driving a truck that appreciates in value.

Here in Mexico people use to overload everything and the old Fords with the channel chassis were the only ones which didn't break, people use to put 4 tones on every 350 or 3500.

Camper manufacturers are very shady when it comes to disclosing camper weights. My 1995 skyline 11.5 ft camper has a badge that states the “dry weight” is 3100 lbs. After I filled it with clothes and provisions for a weekend of dry camping, I took my truck to the local cat scales. Previously, the truck weight with no camper, was 8020 lbs. New truck weight with camper, 13,680 lbs. Actual “camper” weight, 5660 lbs. Sure surprised the hell out of me! DRY weight doesn’t just not include water, it also doesn’t include any optional equipment (ac, refrigerator, microwave, tv, generator, etc) That stuff adds the pounds in a hurry. Now stock the fridge, the pantry, fill the drawers and wardrobe with clothes, the cabinets with dishes, pots, and pans, the kitchen drawers with cutlery, fill the tank with 30-40 gallons of water, and fill the propane tanks. All of a sudden, “real world” weights can nearly double the “dry weight”.

As an Engineer who works in failure analysis and who gets asked often what the manufacturer of various components (non-automotive, but the issue is similar) will stand behind regarding ratings, use, etc., these failure events really make me smh. These trucks have been misused, and your video explanation is very good. The only additions I would make is to talk more about the flex or not designed into the vehicle configuration, the change in flex or strength characteristics when you bolt on or weld on inflexible loads, and what happens with dynamic loads from external sources like uneven roads, wind, load distribution, load shift. Flex isn't bad, as some seem to suggest, i.e. plane wings are meant to flex under load and road vehicles flex for designed reasons, also. I was taught that you don't assume 100% load is a good thing, and you don't overload. There seems to be a commonality of "I know what I'm doing" and "I've never had a problem" that bases its opinion outside of actually checking and honoring specifications and configuration. That frame gave every last little bit of its strength, and I'm impressed it stood up for as long as it did.

If the front and rear of the truck are weighed separately both when unloaded and loaded, you would be able to calculate where the center of gravity is. That's four weighings! I noticed the outlet for gray/black water is way at the back end of the camper, connector for fresh water is back there too. If those tanks are full, that's a lot of weight cantelevered off the back end.!

My dad used to have a Born Free pickup camper for his F-350 4WD. The camper was about the same length, but had a tag axle to help with the weight distribution. He crossed the country multiple times with it.

The mismatched tire heights has probably destroyed the transfer case too. Ol boy is putting it to the thing

I paid $20k for my 2007 Freightliner FLD120 Classic, 550 Cat single turbo. I added a flatbed and registered it as an RV. I never worry about this happening.

I think a video or series testing the weight of campers on trucks would be awesome.

This is what happens when you try bringing the city with you

The payload weight ideally should center on the rear axle. In this case it’s centered to the rear. The frame seems to have a weak point at the bed-cab junction and I suspect concentrating too much weight on the front of the bed will also break the frame there.

This is just not a center of gravity problem or the amount of weight directly down on the axles. The owner has a strap from the camper down to the frame of the truck (just where it is bent). The key here is that an excess shear force was placed (created) on the truck's frame, where the weight hanging off the back of the truck, created a pivot point over the wheels, and the cantilevered force was transferred directly as an upward shear force onto the truck's frame where the strap was attached (essentially forcing the bend). This arrangement was designed to be a catastrophic failure. This is just a basic static force analysis. The truck's frame should have been reinforced (thereby decreasing the overall carrying capacity. The basic truck was sized too small for the intended load and the load's COG (camper's center of gravity).

Years ago I found this issue as well in the 3/4ton diesel trucks with lower payload numbers. They were rated to pull fifth wheels in the range of 15K to 18K pounds but they didn't have the payload rating to cover the 15-25% tongue weight. I didn't wind up with a fifth wheel but the higher optioned 3/4 ton diesels did suffer in payload ratings.

The center of gravity location is noted on the camper spec sheet.

The other consideration people may not be considering is the moment arm involved. Aside of whether this might even be a long bed camper on a short bed truck, moving the cg behind the rear wheels, the ends of that camper extend way beyond the truck front and back, so when it gets rocking or over large bumps, the swinging force is massive. Easy to see how this would happen when overloaded. My 3500 diesel dually is technically overloaded, but it's an older model built stronger, and has worked fine for 15 years. They don't make them like they used to.

Keep in mind that the payload actually stays the same, the reason they lower it when you add options is because the truck is only allowed to total a certain weight. The same thing would happen to the dodge rated at 7000lbs

I've seen this happen a couple times. In person and on the internet. Every single time I've see this happen, the camper tie downs have been welded to the frame, and the frame cracks right on that weld. I'd bet this is the case with this truck, which is why the warranty was denied. But thats speculation without pictures.

Just gotta say, you guys are my favorite. Love watching your videos and im super jealous cause you get to live a dream job lol. Deal with trucks haha

The way that camper is mounted could cause forces to be focused at those mount points. If the camper center of gravity is shifted behind the axle then there would necessarily be a negative payload (lift) right at that focal point. And as the truck travels that becomes a very dynamically stressed focal point. And it wouldn't matter whether or not the payload is within the specified limit.

I worked at a company that put on BM flat beds and dump bodies on heavy trucks for years . I always noticed on ram trucks when you took body mounts loose to add step bars the body mount was such a design that they always had about a quarter of water inside the cab to frame mounts and I'm sure all the others. This has to take it's toll over time on frame strength.

This reminds me of the issue they had with the Jeep Gladiators bending when people were hot-rodding them in the dunes. I believe they specifically made the frames on the Sahara models stronger for this purpose, but didn't do it for others??? My dream truck is unbotanium (a Gladiator Rubicon diesel with the Sahara frame.)

Make sure to add tires to the back of the trailer for more support extra Wheels to support the trailer in the back.. to balance the weight... Weight is for the transmission towing.. extra Wheels extra helps the weight on the shocks and frame...

I would suggest that the center of weight zone is between the centerline of the rear axle and the forward shackles on the rear leaf springs.

When you add a 400-pound bumper too.....

You guys nailed it! When you see the commercials of a Super Duty of any of the big 3 pulling a bulldozer it always shous a top of the line 4 door 4x4 Diesel, basically every option and say they can pull 30k lbs. I think lawsuits need to happen. When they give these numbers its a bone stock 2 wheel drive With their most powerful engine. I actually think it's just a cab and chassis. It is very misleading.

I bought a 19 foot Jayco from a couple who towed it behind a Jeep. They said the Jeep was always riding on the bump stops (they didn't what they were until I pointed it out). Yes, people need to understand the difference between tow capacity and cargo capacity.

Thanks Roman and colleague - here is Australia there appears to be a high number of overloaded (illegal) travellers who have no idea about Payload, GVM etc - the rear axle of the Mitsubishi Triton utility (US truck?) is too close to the front of the rear tub and when overloaded is known to bend the chassis as the vehicle exits a deep rut at speed - the previous Nissan Navara utility is also known to do this but apparently due to a rusting chassis - I’ve seen large SUV’s overturned and crushed by the overloaded caravan that decided to be the leader not the follower.

Back in the day we had to beef all the frames for goose necks.

Yes let's see the camper test you guys do!!!!!! That's an interesting topic!