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Thatcher was good for Britain | Lord King | Oxford Union

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Күн бұрын

Emotions ran high after the Iron Lady's passing, and there wasn't a news pundit that successfully avoided the word 'divisive' that week, but were the Thatcherite upheavals necessary and inevitable?
Lord King, secretary of State for Defence under Margaret Thatcher and John Major gives his speech in proposition of the motion with first hand accounts from the time.
ABOUT LORD KING:
King was elected to Parliament at the 1970 Bridgwater by-election, following the death of the sitting MP, Sir Gerald Wills.
King was brought into the Cabinet in 1983 by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. After brief stints as the Environment Secretary and Transport Secretary, he went on to hold the posts of Employment Secretary and Northern Ireland Secretary at a time when these were high-profile roles with the potential for controversy. King's career in the Cabinet may appear odd to some observers due to his many quick moves between departments. The moves were a reflection of his ability to 'master his brief' quickly, and as successive crises hit the government it was King who was moved to fill the gap. King never had a strong public profile compared to other members of the Cabinet, but neither did he draw attention to himself by elementary errors or public gaffes.
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Пікірлер: 125
@oldskoolrools3087
@oldskoolrools3087 3 жыл бұрын
I grew up on a council estate in the 70's and 80's and I recall the industrial strife that meant power cuts, refuse not collected and constant strikes. I found Margret Thatcher's message of work hard, believe in yourself, take opportunities and take responsibility for yourself inspirational. Stark contrast to my father who was on the dole (by choice) and in the pub everyday. I've tried very hard to pass that on to my children, and i have two hard working and very responsible girls, one graduated from uni, the second currently studying hard at Cambridge university. In a country like the UK, the only limit to what you can achieve is set by you, and that is in part thanks to Margert Thatcher and the path she set us on, after freeing us from the grip of socialism. She will always be a defining person in my life. And to those that think opportunities for women are limited in our society....LOL...just LOL
@rogerigez21
@rogerigez21 3 жыл бұрын
Hello, I found your comment very inspiring. Assumably being of a similar age to your daughters, I’m surrounded by young people who despise Thatcher-like figures just because their parents did. Breaking that mold is incredibly difficult, as I myself have experienced (coming from a working class family of Labor voters in Australia). Not to say that any other assortment of parties are any better, but it’s the mindset at the heart of one’s political philosophy that’s so influential to future success. I think you’ve demonstrated that clearly, and I’m glad I could read it.
@oldskoolrools3087
@oldskoolrools3087 3 жыл бұрын
@@rogerigez21 Hi, and thank you for the feedback. You use a phrase there that I've used to describe my life journey, and I wish there were more people that have the self awareness that I had at a young age, and that you clearly have in abundance. You call it "breaking the mold", whereas I've called it "breaking the cycle", which is exactly what I felt I needed to do, or my children would be under achievers, never reaching their full potential in life. Agree with you 100% about mind set and success, but unfortunately what holds many back and where countries such as the UK, Oz & US may struggle one days is that the success of previous generations who did want to improve their lot in life and generated wealth, now have a generation who can afford to feel entitled and hence afford to despise people like Thatcher, as they've had it good for so long they've forgotten that it's because of somebody's hard work they have what they have. Could probably talk for a long time with you, and I'd wish you luck in life, but you don't strike me as somebody who needs luck. You're going to do just great with or without it and it's refreshing.
@bloodwargaming3662
@bloodwargaming3662 Жыл бұрын
​@@rogerigez21 i mean Thatcher destroyed the middle class and working class and gave away the nation's assets to rich that's why people dis like her how hard is it for y'all to understand this . Unemployed people jumped from 1.5 million to 4 million by 1986 whereas the gini co efficient i.e the income distribution gap between the rich and poor grew 6x . Unemployment only came down below the 1979 records after the Blair govt came in
@Cringeage
@Cringeage 10 жыл бұрын
He was there guys. He was there.
@jl3977
@jl3977 9 жыл бұрын
+Cringeage his anecdotes are therefore undeniably objective and completely factual. 'Well, we have to make sure that rich keep on making lots of money, now don't we! Supporting workers and their families? pfft! we have to let them just find ways to keep on making lots of money, and then blame the choices of parliament on the workers! mmmm yeesss muh money.'
@Anon54387
@Anon54387 8 жыл бұрын
+Jpseudo What he talks about is true. 9 freaking unions. Think of the former Hostess Snack Company in America. They had 115 unions in that one company. If you owned a company, imagine dealing with that mess. 115 different union contracts to negotiate. If a group of workers want to unionize, they should have to pick one union per company. If that one union no longer serves their needs, fire that union and pick another. The workers as Hostess made far more than the industry average, yet were demanding more. The owners said if you demand that we will not be able to make a profit. We will be forced to close our doors. The unions apparently thought that the owners were bluffing. The unions called a strike. The owners closed the doors, immediately laid off most of the workers and kept a few on to sell the equipment and rights to the product. Hostess Foods is now owned by a Greek Company. Nabisco (producer of Oreos, Ritz Crackers, etc) is now owned by Mondelez and their products are produced in Mexico.
@stephenowen3383
@stephenowen3383 6 жыл бұрын
Obviously his account is to some extent obviously not very useful. In terms of his account of the 70s, yeah it was dogshit, and something needed to be done. Whether that meant full Thatcher is more questionable.
@growinsane9123
@growinsane9123 5 жыл бұрын
It's easy to question it in hindsight... is it realistic to have expected perfection though? When I think what today's governments on both sides look like, something even competent as a leader would be welcomed, but if the public understood at the beginning the improvements that would come eventually they would have probably voted for it in bigger numbers, after all having done the hard work in the first term the Tories held at 339 seats during the first term but that grew to 397 in her second term, falling back slightly to 376 in her final term so it is important to realise that despite the trumpetted legacy of being a divisive leader, electorally she was one of the most unifying. So the question should really have been, if she delivered the medicine slowly and less forcefully, would she have made enough headway to have gained the momentum for further terms in office? And had the trade unions historically been responsive to softly softly approach? Callaghan's Labour couldn't manage them, it only knew how to stop them striking by giving them more money but it just got worse and worse.
@johnharvey4448
@johnharvey4448 5 жыл бұрын
Thatcher wiped the floor with any Current British politician. I used to hate her.
@hjyigo4759
@hjyigo4759 5 жыл бұрын
Tom King is a very good man indeed. Soldier, statesman and man of honour.
@ChrisMorgan86
@ChrisMorgan86 9 ай бұрын
You been smoking on the end of crack pipe before writing that statement!
@mks8172
@mks8172 5 жыл бұрын
So sad that such a statement is extinct in my generation even among tories (age15_17).
@joellukewarriorforjesusthe293
@joellukewarriorforjesusthe293 2 жыл бұрын
I agree im 26 conservative values are rare nowadays.
@bloodwargaming3662
@bloodwargaming3662 Жыл бұрын
​@@joellukewarriorforjesusthe293 no body wants destruction any more
@macklee6837
@macklee6837 5 жыл бұрын
Ridiculous how children think they know more about that period than a man who lived through it.
@dcw304
@dcw304 5 жыл бұрын
Mack Lee it’s a debate you penis, a university.
@anthonysteel6877
@anthonysteel6877 4 жыл бұрын
Many people who lived through it have very different views to the likes of Tom King.
@thepanel2935
@thepanel2935 Жыл бұрын
Then, or now, Mack? If we're talking about the flow-on effects and aftermath of her policies _today,_ who cares whether you "lived through" it? I lived through it and saw working wages decimated, And she ruined manufacturing. And now, Britain had to win two World Wars to be a potential dominant voice and force in European politics (with Germany) until Brexit ended that golden possibility while old-school Tories vainly seek their 'new empire'. Pre-Brexit, you potentially had it.
@hunterluxton5976
@hunterluxton5976 2 жыл бұрын
I always liked this man. I recall him as a minister he always struck me as an intelligent, common sense bloke, fair minded and measured.
@thepanel2935
@thepanel2935 Жыл бұрын
Thatcher caused a lot of pain for a lot of people.
@TheRock1.0
@TheRock1.0 Жыл бұрын
Hard honest work is not easy. What's easy is surviving on colony money.
@thepanel2935
@thepanel2935 Жыл бұрын
@@TheRock1.0thanks, but what do you mean by colony money?
@dominikpytel9268
@dominikpytel9268 4 жыл бұрын
I'm from Poland and I have to admit that majority of Poles loves the Iron Lady. We belive that she, president Regan and pope John Paul II gives us hope to overcome comunism. The only one who disagree with this point are the people on the left, who doesn't understend how the freemarket and economy works but fortunately these people are minority
@michaelwalker4022
@michaelwalker4022 2 жыл бұрын
Lord king a gentleman and great statesman!
@junacebedo888
@junacebedo888 Жыл бұрын
Here in the Philippines, during the late 70s and early 80s, Thatcher was very popular. Imelda Marcos -wife of the president wanted to emulate her.
@jedadriancuaton4287
@jedadriancuaton4287 Жыл бұрын
And also Miriam Defensor-Santiago, who regarded Thatcher as her role model.
@nyedoherty1562
@nyedoherty1562 4 жыл бұрын
She didn't like fascist dictators in Argentina, but she sure was fine with them in Chile.
@AEbyNiel
@AEbyNiel 6 ай бұрын
Pinochet Dictatorship. 😂😂😂
@Bloxdio_God
@Bloxdio_God 4 жыл бұрын
If only she were in charge today.
@ggpp4898
@ggpp4898 2 жыл бұрын
She was the PM who gave Rhodesia to Mugabe.....and for that and the tens of thousands of deaths of Africans in that country.... she will NEVER be forgiven.
@edwardwhittaker5728
@edwardwhittaker5728 3 жыл бұрын
He completely fails to answer ANY of the points that Ben made.
@junacebedo888
@junacebedo888 Жыл бұрын
The points made by Ben were not in the era of the Iron lady, but in Blair's and Brown's time
@edwardwhittaker5728
@edwardwhittaker5728 Жыл бұрын
@@junacebedo888 hey Jun but why did he do that? in a sense the whole issue is confusing. Thatcher died during the Premiership of David Cameron's 'age of austerity' and not the Blair-Brown era. In fact Thatcher was a fan of Blair's 'Third Way' and she was also instrumental in setting up of the Single Market in the EU. In fact Thatcher would never have contemplated something so stupid and divisive as 'Brexit'.
@junacebedo888
@junacebedo888 Жыл бұрын
@@edwardwhittaker5728 Why not eat? Maybe not hungry.
@drdeadred851
@drdeadred851 Жыл бұрын
@@edwardwhittaker5728 Its totally false to claim she wouldnt have been in favour of Brexit, she was in favour of joining the EEC at the time when it was effectively just a trade block. As it kept having stuff added onto it she became more and more euro-sceptic of it, by the time Maastricht happned she was totally against it or at the every least wanted it rolled back into a pure trading area. She made it very clear that her decision to initally join was done with guarantees that things like 'ever closer union' would never happen. The EU today and in 2016 is monumentally different from what we initially joined, just being wilfully ignorant and going "she helped create the inital trade area of the single market, therefore she would have massively been a Europhile full board with the EU today" its legitimately just totally false. Its not like im mind reading she is on record and gave multiple speeches on the matter while she was in the House of Lords, you are just full on ignoring all of it to spin some false argument. Its the exact same thing people say about Churchill, but with that its even less to go on as its effectively just one quote for the entire "yeah Churchill was totally a remainer" bull crap.
@edwardwhittaker5728
@edwardwhittaker5728 Жыл бұрын
@@drdeadred851 OK, but I did not say any of that. I was referring to Tom King's failure to address any of the questions posed to him. Anyway you sentimentalize Thatcher, she was, as she used to to say, a scientist - indeed she hated socialism and Jacques Delors, but she might just might have sussed out that leaving the EU could be 'bad for Britain'...and it has turned out to be much worse than that.
@RobertK1993
@RobertK1993 Жыл бұрын
This man made Ulster Unionists cry in November 1985
@thepanel2935
@thepanel2935 Жыл бұрын
You "lived through" _what"?_ Did you experience first-hand the destruction of manufacturing with direct consequences to yourself? Struggled to pay the Poll Tax, which although it was later removed as a disastrous policy, you still had to pay? Do you know how many Brits have moved to Australia in the last few decades? And I could go on... but I won't, because I don't care. Let the system stay "in decline". You get the politicians you deserve. I always said Thatcher would only be in power and supported until the Middle Class started hurting due to her policies. And that's what happened. I should know - I "lived through" it and watched it unfold predictably based on my opinion that she was only in the top job until her policies inevitably also affected them. The working class were always screwed under her.
@user-fm2lw3xb1u
@user-fm2lw3xb1u 5 жыл бұрын
That boy is so annoying.
@ChrisMorgan86
@ChrisMorgan86 10 ай бұрын
Tom "The Invisible Man" King
@johnharvey4448
@johnharvey4448 5 жыл бұрын
Thatcher was good for Britain. She still is.
@clayprent8753
@clayprent8753 3 жыл бұрын
Daood Zafar then why did she win three majorities in a row? people clearly voted for her
@THOMASCOLTON1
@THOMASCOLTON1 3 жыл бұрын
Bollocks
@sheep3370
@sheep3370 Жыл бұрын
The modern Tories are her beliefs taken to the logical conclusion. She did not cause the mess we are in but it did begin with her
@ThePostalGril
@ThePostalGril 3 жыл бұрын
thatcher is the true role model of women
@william_marshal
@william_marshal 3 жыл бұрын
I'm sure millions of women working in sweat shop conditions on the minimum wage whilst Thatcher lived for years in a £3.000 per night hotel room would agree with you !!!
@ThePostalGril
@ThePostalGril 3 жыл бұрын
@@william_marshal haha stop lying, there was no such thing as sweat shops. infact you contradicted your own sentence by adding minimum wage. if you are so privileged that you complain about living a country that sets a minimum living wage then you need to get some perspective. if you want to see sweat shops how about you visit a third world country for a month? also who was forcing those women to work???? and who are you to say women aren't allowed to work?? i'll work if i want to thank you very much and thanks to thatcher i get to own and run my own business without being taxed til my nose bleeds!
@william_marshal
@william_marshal 3 жыл бұрын
@@ThePostalGril Just goes to show your ignorance, the minimum wage came after Thatcher, she would never have given women the minimum wage and sweat shops are very much in business as ever more business people (all Thatcher worshippers like you) try to get out of paying the minimum wage .... it's called the gig economy and ever more workers are being pulled into it. If women don't work how are they supposed to live, eat grass like a cow in a field. Business people don't pay tax and never did, they know all the dirty tricks to get out of paying tax and it seems your one of them !!!
@ThePostalGril
@ThePostalGril 3 жыл бұрын
@@william_marshal ahahahahhaha make your mind up. your first comment "women being forced to work in sweat shops for minimum wage" your second comment "actually minimum wage didnt exist until after thatcher" which one is it chromedome? also first comment "women being forced to work is wrong" second comment "women should be allowed to work" will you please stop contradicting yourself and give me a COHERENT argument please? and im more than happy paying fair, reasonable taxes thank you. but stealing my money to pay for things that i shouldn't be paying for is not fair nor reasonable. i prefer the free market thank you
@william_marshal
@william_marshal 3 жыл бұрын
@@ThePostalGril You need to clean your glasses .... I used the term working, I did not say forced to work, you need to read what I've written before you come back with bullshite. You brought the minimum wage and Thatcher together, they have nothing to do with each as the minimum wage was introduced in 1997, long after Thatcher was kicked out by her so called mates. So tell me madam how much tax do you pay in percentage, I believe the tax rate for people like you is 40% but the truth is most of them pay less than 10% and you're probably one of them. Nobody steals your money, everybody pays tax above a certain income level but rich people have a social responsibility to pay their fair share into the system and if you are earning well as you claim you are then it is expected that people who are better off pay a little more into the social state, or are you just like Thatcher and couldn't care less that people live on food banks in the sixth richest country in the world !!!
@stephenhardy312
@stephenhardy312 3 жыл бұрын
10 mins approx. Argentina was run by a fascist dictator; Thatcher, however, had supported Augusto Pinochet of Chile, ever since his coup, 9 years before the Falklands invasion.
@hunterluxton5976
@hunterluxton5976 2 жыл бұрын
She was pragmatic. PINOCHET was , butvhe helped the UK during the Argentinian conflict. She always remembered that. But yes pinochet was a terrible dictator.
@asacarrick1385
@asacarrick1385 3 жыл бұрын
It really isn't so difficult when you have the opportunity to talk about the finest head of state anywhere since WW2. Non the less Tom King did a fine job here.
@ivandinsmore6217
@ivandinsmore6217 Жыл бұрын
She was the only Prime Minister since World War II who was good for Britain.
@thepanel2935
@thepanel2935 Жыл бұрын
If Thatcher was able to come up with such great policies, explain the Poll Tax.
@edwardmirza
@edwardmirza 3 жыл бұрын
Margaret Thatcher was a machine, duped by her school maamish posturing into believing that austerity would be accepted by many for the greater good.
@markmcmullan3351
@markmcmullan3351 5 жыл бұрын
Why did he get 15mins and the opposition only got 4 mins and the bell was going typical bias .
@lfcgero35
@lfcgero35 5 жыл бұрын
Parties were held all over the world when that woman died and for all the wrong reasons. Places like ireland argentina wales scotland north of england have a special place in theirs hearts for her. She destroyed britains manufacturing , her policies led to mass unemployment , she presided over interest rates of 15% , she abolished free milk for school children , she started the housing crisis which is still prevailent today, she started the privatisation of the nhs , her poll tax which was her ultimate downfall , presiding over a shoot to kill policy and probaly her greatest fuck up miss handling the hunger strikes and prolonging the bloody conflict and while condemning the ira she had behind closed doors meetings with them. I am sure there is plenty more to say about the woman but very little would be praise for her.
@junacebedo888
@junacebedo888 Жыл бұрын
M.T. wanted the hunger strikers to eat but they don't want to, hence they became malnourished and died
@Needus815
@Needus815 3 жыл бұрын
Devoid of all the facts.
@michaelplank8966
@michaelplank8966 Жыл бұрын
Not for the poor another millionaire
@apersonusinggoogle3674
@apersonusinggoogle3674 4 жыл бұрын
Can someone tell me what the bell means?
@lukegillespie242
@lukegillespie242 4 жыл бұрын
It tells the speaker that their time is coming to an end and that they should begin to make their closing points.
@apersonusinggoogle3674
@apersonusinggoogle3674 4 жыл бұрын
@@lukegillespie242 thank you!
@tonymccann1978
@tonymccann1978 6 ай бұрын
Cheap points with zero points made. Terrible rebbutal
@edwardmirza
@edwardmirza 3 жыл бұрын
...also I believe that I may help to destroy the callous complacency with which the majority of those at home regard the contrivance of agonies which they do not, and which they have not sufficient imagination to realise' - Sassoon
@PhysicsA1
@PhysicsA1 7 жыл бұрын
The country is still in decline....Thatcher only slowed down the inevitable with her short-term band-aid. This country sold out all of its industry and manufacturing in favour of services, the City and self-consumption fueled by debt. Thatcher the person was fine, of course.
@samuelsaravanamuttu8981
@samuelsaravanamuttu8981 5 жыл бұрын
We're better off today than in the 20th century. Absolute BS about decline. Services have got us so much more success globally. Our manufacturing was nowhere near that of the Germans and wouldve taken us ages to even get anywhere near.
@kordellswoffer1520
@kordellswoffer1520 3 жыл бұрын
@@samuelsaravanamuttu8981 many nations in the west are in decline britain is one of them. Its not BS to point out things going on in our society.
@bloodwargaming3662
@bloodwargaming3662 Жыл бұрын
​@@samuelsaravanamuttu8981 yeah the manufacturing declined due to Thatcher
@jimmygeorge161
@jimmygeorge161 4 жыл бұрын
Who call these a wholes lord
@alphabetaxenonzzzcat
@alphabetaxenonzzzcat 7 жыл бұрын
Spitting Image always had as the Invisible Man when he was Employment Secretary.
@edwardwhittaker5728
@edwardwhittaker5728 3 жыл бұрын
Stirling account of how 'they' defeated Scargill (11.46)....but he should have added...'Then we closed the pits'.
@MrHeesbeen
@MrHeesbeen 5 жыл бұрын
She was good for the intelligentia and the disgustingly rich, but for the average working man and the unions, she was a destructive force.
@SadamYT
@SadamYT 4 жыл бұрын
You're seriously putting "average working man" and "the unions" in one sentence? Wow.
@kordellswoffer1520
@kordellswoffer1520 3 жыл бұрын
Of course the unions where garbage and she helped the middle and working class.
@CommunistPartyTV
@CommunistPartyTV 10 жыл бұрын
he is, like her, an anti-worker Capitalist who believes in maximising profits from worker's labour. just cos he is entertaining doesn't play down the disastrous policies that have destroyed umpteen British cities - all of whom had whole communities decimated through neo-liberal politics. and it was hilarious to hear him talk about Fascists dictators in Argentina, considering Fascist Chilean dictator Pinochet was her best pal (and who she kept from facing trial in the International Criminal Court)
@peacefrog1916
@peacefrog1916 10 жыл бұрын
'Thatcher was good for me' the title should be.
@mengelmoesNL
@mengelmoesNL 9 жыл бұрын
Hey look communists. You guys still take yourself serieus?
@joshproductions4283
@joshproductions4283 8 жыл бұрын
Capitalism be upon you
@crimson177
@crimson177 8 жыл бұрын
+Communist Party Want to hear a joke? Commies
@SuperPotacio
@SuperPotacio 7 жыл бұрын
Communist Party dont talk about pinochet, he made possible the economic miracle in chile, its no joke, he turn a shitty country like cuba or venezuela into a free and prosper country, and then he gave back the country to the democracy (thing that a communist would never do, ask fidel castro or nicolas maduro)
@sacrilegeDVD
@sacrilegeDVD 5 жыл бұрын
Was very good to elitist families and of course the bankers ....hoora !
@forsytherob
@forsytherob 3 жыл бұрын
Ding dong the witch is still dead
@michaelwalker4022
@michaelwalker4022 2 жыл бұрын
How Disrespectful disgraceful comment shameful her name will be etched in the history books for great achievement for our country and nation unlike yours!
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