THE 18 BEST BAREFOOT SHOES (and Boots)
Рет қаралды 25,634
Күн бұрынBarefoot shoes I actually use after years and LOTS of free pairs. Links below 🙏
0:00 Intro
1:26 Casuals
1. Birchbury: bag.gg/Birchbury
2. Lem's Primal Zen: bag.gg/Lems
3. Flux Trainer: bag.gg/FluxShoes
** pakt travel backpack: bag.gg/PaktTravBackpack
4. BeLenka Champ: bag.gg/BeLenka
5. Magical Shoes Loafer: bag.gg/MagicalShoes
6. Wildling Tanuki: bag.gg/WildlingShoes
7. Within (Amazon): amzn.to/47ziSMN
6:29 Workout / Running
8. Tolos: bag.gg/TolosShoes
9. Xero Forza Runner: bag.gg/XeroShoes
10. Flux Runner: bag.gg/FluxShoes
11. Altra: bag.gg/AltraSuperior
9:21 Boots & More
12. Lems Chelsea: bag.gg/Lems
13. Lems Boulder Boot: bag.gg/Lems
14. Bedrock Mountain Clog: bag.gg/BedrockSandal
15. Lems Outlander: bag.gg/Lems
16. Lems Primal Pursuit: bag.gg/Lems
17. Xero Boot: bag.gg/XeroShoes
18. Powersocks: bag.gg/PowerSocks
12:38 Final Picks:
- Lems Primal Zen: bag.gg/Lems
- Flux Trainer: bag.gg/FluxShoes
- Belenka Champ: bag.gg/BeLenka
- Birchbury: bag.gg/Birchbury
- Tolos: bag.gg/TolosShoes
- Lems Boulder: bag.gg/Lems
- Flux Runner: bag.gg/FluxShoes
MY PATREON 🙏: / chasereeves
Chase Lynks:
**************
- win free gear: matterful.co/free-stuff
- the podcast: chasereeves.co/podcast
- patreon: / chasereeves
- gear I use: matterful.co/kit
- video music resource: bag.gg/Epidemic
~
/ chasewreeves
/ chasewreeves
open.spotify.com/user/chasereeves
matterful.co
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@Atlas_B170 14 күн бұрын
Jim Green has a barefoot version of their venerable African Ranger boot. Definitely recommend checking that out
@snilloconator 3 ай бұрын
Great videocoming from another barefoot shoe lover. I have a collection but my go-to's are Xero HFS, Birchbury Bramford for casual, Birchbury Brenston for business dress, and Tadeevo Bliss for travel. I have plenty more but those are my EDCs and so you kow you helped me with moving to minimalist shoes years ago.
@fridalopez738 2 ай бұрын
Chase's barefoot shoe videos are my favorite!
@slavasss2189 5 ай бұрын
Thanksfor the video, would love to see your full shoes collection 😊😅
@lewisham 7 ай бұрын
You’re reading my mind here with these videos Chase. First bum bags, now barefoot shoes.
@lisam5576 4 ай бұрын
I know you made this video awhile ago, but I wanted to thank you nonetheless. I've wanted to try barefoot shoes due to some foot issues I have and this was really helpful. I just got my first pair this weekend even though I know there will be an adjustment period, I love them already. Thank you!
@junun007 7 ай бұрын
Just picked up the new Lems Boulder Boot Grips and they are amazing. Super comfortable and they are waterproof which great for the northeast weather
@LuisKnight 7 ай бұрын
I got some vivo's and the amazon withings for work, and vibrams for everyday use. I made the switch to barefoot almost 2 years ago and i haven't looked back. I dont think ive twisted my ankle since. I used to twist my ankles a lot with normal shoes. Also my toes look so much better and i have more control over them know. It was a painful transition but i cant go back to normal shoes.
@Seanonyoutube 7 ай бұрын
Primal Zens are god tier in comfort. I’m a runner and find them to be the best recovery shoe, I even do some recovery runs in them. Absolutely love them.
@Stan6053 3 ай бұрын
Are they good in 45 F degree weather?
@Seanonyoutube 3 ай бұрын
@@Stan6053 nope! Get the boulder boot summit waterproof for that.
@Fiddleback 5 ай бұрын
Need a comprehensive video about the barefoot dress/work shoes from various manufacturers. Otherwise, this was a good overview. Thanks!
@JAnth93 5 ай бұрын
Agreed. Can't seem to find good videos on barefoot dress shoes.
@7531monkey 5 ай бұрын
Ew
@Stinkyassfoot 3 ай бұрын
I have the birchbury ones theyre amazing fits like a glove and theyre flexable
@senripardawt 5 ай бұрын
Any ideas on a women’s dress shoe worth exploring? Love your videos!
@LdawgFaraoni 7 ай бұрын
xero shoes looking like AI shoes is the most accurate hilarious way to describe them. I love Vivobarefoot because of the looks and comfort. I have about 10 or more pair of Vivobarefoot
@jacobbaty5193 6 ай бұрын
100% agree about the Xero Shoes comment! Brilliant!!
@LdawgFaraoni 5 ай бұрын
since this comment I have discovered Flux and I love them
@patrickavondale8653 22 күн бұрын
Such a good review, liked and subbed! What kind of pants are those?
@philipbeadle6446 7 ай бұрын
My lems primal zens and primal pursuits are my everyday work shoes working in healthcare. The comfort is great, and they're easy to clean, which is super important because my job is kind of gross 😅. They also dry out super quickly after getting wet. Super useful.
@suzannebrindley2019 7 ай бұрын
Love my Altra Superior 5’s
@robbany9449 7 ай бұрын
Vivo and Lems are the only shoes/boots I own (10+) and couldn't agree more with the Primal Zen and Boulder Boot is unsurpassed in comfort. Highly recommend Vivo's Addis for a casual option that is super comfy and build quality is top notch. Love the vid Chase!
@vvtv4565 7 ай бұрын
Wildlings are my absolute favorite! I find then to be the most attractive and innovative of barefoot shoes. The Tanuki's are my favorite summer shoe. The Chestnuts with the wool liner and soft material outers have been a champ for running around in the cold winter months in Flagstaff. I also love the Lems Primal 2's. They have a slightly more flexible sole and less stack height than the Primal Zen's although the Zen's are more attractive. I recommend Primal 2's as a barefoot starter shoe. The Lem's Chelsea boot is fantastic for working around my property. They are so easy to slip on and they have a flexible sole.
@gurpreetkhamba5399 6 ай бұрын
Highly dont recommend wildlings tanuki. It's not durable. Due to design.
@TheDillaMonster 7 ай бұрын
I looked up "Chase Reeves barefoot shoes" and rewatched your previous editions yesterday!
@Britbec 6 ай бұрын
Casting my vote for Peerko boots. Both the Go and Frost. Walked 5 miles in mine this morning before it got above freezing and my feet stay warm and comfortable.
@jonsprekelmeyer7625 5 ай бұрын
I like the Flux and Origo for casual wear. For my workout (FIIT training with alot of lateral movements) barefoot shoes tend not to have much lateral support for me, but the Xero 360's actually hit the spot there.
@jamesclawson9243 5 ай бұрын
These mass shoe reviews are some of the best on the Internet. Thanks for making these. Currently have 2 pairs of Joomra's (another Amazon brand with identical sole as Whitin). One is more sporty and another is more vans/levis style. Looking for a leather sneaker for fall and winter thats more weather proof and also something a bit more dressy. Considering Be Lenka white shoes you recommended here or the barebarics Nike AF1 look-alikes, or maybe the brown Origos. I like the looks of Birchbury, but I've heard mixed reviews, specifically about not doing well with water which is a deal breaker if true
@colew9966 Ай бұрын
Primarily wearing Vivos, Gobis for work. Earthrunners, Xero HFS for workouts, Lems Primal Zens and Rhizals for casual, Lems Boulder for weather. Just got some birchbury Bramdords but they tore my heels to shreds.
@zacharymargolis2490 2 ай бұрын
Chase! I wonder what sandals are working for the neuroma you mentioned a few years back. I'm dealing with one and feel great in primal Zens and am finding sandals to be tricky!
@helenagaspar7289 5 ай бұрын
I love and live in wildlings in summer and just bought my boots for winter! I have some vivo (and love them) and some groundies! ❤❤
@melodieschellenberg906 4 ай бұрын
I really love my Vivobarefoot shoes, I have a pair for the gym and hiking boots. I really like altras as well for a bit more cushion or as a transition shoe. And Luna sandals have been really great, once you get them tightened to your foot.
@FreemanLaFleur 7 ай бұрын
LOVE my Lems Boulder Boot. Bought them five years ago on your suggestion and wear them all the time. Also nabbed the cheap Amazon ones awhile ago and they are totally “meh” - never wear them.
@lern-undkursvideos2512 5 ай бұрын
I bought the Boulder Boots because of your video! In summertime I mostly wear wildlings, but I needed something warmer and the Boulder did it. I also have the Xero Kelsos, they look a bit goofy but I kinda like it because of that :D
@NaturallyNerdy 7 ай бұрын
I love Lem (I have the waterproof boulder, Primal, and chakkas) I also have the feelground courtsides (they look kinda like Nike dunks) and just ordered Feelgrounds Chelsea boot
@violinius 7 ай бұрын
My feet are too wide for many of those brands (I wish I could wear Lems!). I have been wearing Softstar Shoes "Primal" line and recommend them for high volume feet (high instep, 6Ewide, etc). Also, I couldn't remember the name a power socks for the life of me- I am so glad you posted an updated version of your barefoot shoe review. Thank you for posting this useful vid!
@RobOK_BTC 3 ай бұрын
Had not read this and tried a few Lems but they were narrow for me.
@stevenshytle 7 ай бұрын
I like the Vivo leather. Whitin has been excellent for me and them really comfortable. At $40 a pair, they are great value. Closet full of Rockports, Vasque and Merrell are getting dusty.
@transatlant1c 6 ай бұрын
Started my barefoot journey with the primal zen2 and haven’t looked back since. Most comfortable shoes I own period. Highly recommended. Particularly great for travel
@Stan6053 3 ай бұрын
Are they good in 45 F degrees? Looks like cold air can enter the mesh area.
@Jmike66468 7 ай бұрын
The Xero 360 is so comfortable! I love barefoot shoes as well. Lems are my go to, but I have a pair of white leather Whitins that I love! If you wear a 10 or 10.5 I’ll take some of those off your hands , but I think you are a larger size 😂
@FiZ 6 ай бұрын
I've been a huge fan of Lem's for a number of years now
@KeithMorgan 7 ай бұрын
Really enjoy all your barefoot shoe videos - now I wanna check out some Flux. I started wearing Altras back in maybe 2015[ish] and wore them for years. Watched a video of yours about 16/18 months ago and got just hooked on your Wildling Tanuki impressions - got a pair and they've become my goto shoe for almost everything. I've been looking for some boots for winter and I really love the idea behind the new Wildling boot with the new sole - but I swear the color/visual department there [along with MOST barefoot shoe companies] just has NO idea what normal people like/wear. I dont want a bright green boot! Who wears that on a regular basis?? Most of Wildlings catalog looks like the shoe colors were picked by 4 year olds!
@Corn-bob 7 ай бұрын
Do you find yourself walking “softer” on rocky ground? I play a lot of disc golf and I tend to get a rock or two jabbing into my feet. I wear skate shoes mostly so I’m just curious, knowing that a vulcanized skate shoe is pretty similar to a barefoot
@notisac3149 3 ай бұрын
Wildling also has shoes that are much better suited for winter, like ones that are made of wool, at least one that goes up the calf, or others that are water resistant. There are also a few that can pretty much be worn year round unless you live in the snow.
@adamsteineke4661 7 ай бұрын
no Vivobarefoot?? Love them, have three pair.
@daviddaugherty1861 7 ай бұрын
I'm actually a big fan of the Withins shoes, super simple minimalist shoe that can be worn with most things. They don't last very long (mine have some fraying in the heal) but for the price they are solid. I preordered the barefoot Jim Green Ranger Boot and am excited to see if it will replace my Boulder Boots. My biggest gripe about the Boulder boots is the traction in snowy weather which I think the ranger boots should do better. For workouts/hiking I like my Altra Lone Peaks. I usually don't care much about ground-feel in my workout shoes and am more concerned about having a wide toebox with zero drop and the Altras tick that box perfectly. I also agree with your opinion on the Xero shoes, I have that white tennis shoe one you have in the video and it is way to wide in the heal area which makes it look odd, I like their z-trail sandals though.
@chasereeves 7 ай бұрын
Lems just came out with a new boulder boot with deeper treads, btw.
@MCJSA 3 ай бұрын
I've worn Freets (UK brand made from old water bottles) for a couple of years. Bought two pairs. The most recent were lace ups which I don't like because I have to tie them. A dog at the kennels grabbed my foot and ripped a hole in them, dispatching them early, thank God. Now I'm genuinely barefoot and shopping for another pair of shoes. Not everyone's got 50 pairs of shoes - some of us only got one - or none.
@antonroux6737 3 ай бұрын
Wonder what you think of Altra Olympus (version 6 coming out very soon) which is zero drop, anatomical footshape but maximum cushion?
@justins_toys 6 ай бұрын
If you have a narrower foot as I do you should check out the Merrell barefoot range. They were my first pair like 8 to 9 years ago and they are still going! super comfy and breathable. I accidentally went barefoot full-time because of these. I got them just to wear when it was super hot instead if flip flops and now I have a barefoot shoe for every session! Due to the narrower foot shape I like Lems, Xero, Vivo and Merrell. I feel like a duck even in some vivio's and other wider makes like Be Lanka. In the UK they used to be hard to find but its getting better.. 👍🏻 Thanks for the reviews, shame you can't get about half of them over here
@tess3616 7 ай бұрын
have you ever worn the birchbury's in the rain or winter? they say on their site that they can't get wet at all, which is confusing to me. i've also heard reports that it's not just damage to the leather, but the actual glue they use in the shoes that is damaged by water. i was considering buying them until i learned that i could only wear them in perfectly dry conditions!
@Kidsofthecorn123 6 ай бұрын
sole-los are very good barefoot shoes. pretty stylish super comfortable
@pat2982 Ай бұрын
What do you think about Altra lone peak shoes?
@LdawgFaraoni 7 ай бұрын
no vivobarefoot?? they are my favorite and pretty much all I wear
@eliefeinstein6182 Ай бұрын
I wish I could find something like the Lems Leather Boulder Boot but with a thinner sole. Any recommendations?
@michaelboyer3927 2 ай бұрын
I’ve been wearing splay and am looking to venture in nicer shoes. The splay shoes look nice but tend to fall apart when you wear them for everything like I’ve been doing, but I love there slip on can like ones.
@KeepitcleanOC 25 күн бұрын
Thanks to you I found out about Flux, reviewed them against others, and am excited to add the runners to my shoes that have cured my 6 month bout of plantar fasciitis (PF): vivobarefoot and earthrunners. I started working at costco and for first 2 months on concrete I was fine, adjusted well to concrete with vivo's, but over long term I feel I need the cushion so Flux is perfect, zero drop, very wide toebox, and even has the grounding effect in their shoes like the earthrunners. I'm pumped! Thank you, sir! Great video. May God bless you and yours.
@Scarywoody 7 ай бұрын
Wow, I thought I had a shoe obsession.
@Brandon-0028 7 ай бұрын
Really surprising to not see Vivo Barefoots. I have like 13 pairs of their shoes and love them even over my Lems.
@bramwillemse 7 ай бұрын
Same here. Until now Vivobarefoot is the only brand that can deliver on quality, comfort & style. Really worth a try to test, if you ask me.
@IStillLikeIke 7 ай бұрын
The only barefoot shoes I own are Xero shoes but I love them - I have 3 pairs. Prio, prio neo, and Glenn. The Glen is an elevated look too. I see your issue with the style but I actually love the way the athletic Xero shoes look. I also removed the insole on one pair and go super minimalist now but that's a legit issue with the insole coming out at times. Maybe i'll check out some of your recommendations. I also know vivobarefoot is very popular
@thirdmort 6 ай бұрын
I'm really considering getting some Glenn's when I start going in the office more. How have they held up?
@curanderoverde 7 ай бұрын
Vivobarefoot Primus ii trail fg straight up the best barefoot shoes Ive owned...the outer sole is burley enough for an approach alpine hiking shoe... And they look like indoor soccer shoes
@childcrone Ай бұрын
Real-world takes like this are so helpful for people, thanks for doing it! Hey, I saw you have a pair of Splay sneakers in your never-wear-them pile. If they're 10M/12W, would you like to sell/give them to me? My best and favorite barefoots are my pair of Vivobarefoot Forest ESC boots. I wanted something for woodsy pasture property chores and mountainy hiking that was mud/snow capable. What sold me on them was the luggy sole that's side-stitched on and that they're all leather so I could waterproof them with Sno-Seal. I've used them in every condition I wanted them for, and appreciate them more every time I use them.
@olleaberg7271 3 ай бұрын
Chase needs to check out The Jim Green African ranger barfoot boot. Its a normal boot company that has come out with a barefoot boot and its really good, I believe its a Lems boulder boot killer.. The upper is just as good as their other boots and the sole has a sick grip.
@Jessica-zi1en Ай бұрын
Get Hykes, I have the Hykes Pinnacle barefoot shoes, they also donate a pair with every purchase.
@lesliegraham8478 7 ай бұрын
I have 3 pairs of Lems and I would never go without owning a pair!
@jeanpaulooopsn5976 5 ай бұрын
what are the wides shoes? I got vivo primal and they are abit narrow
@BenWa19781978 7 ай бұрын
I’ve been using Feel Grounds. They even make a winter boot. They actually look good as well. Which is the most challenging. I have the Birchbury dress shoe. I wear it. It’s zero drop but not barefoot. Too much padding. Love the feel of my vivobarefoot boots but they look horrendous.
@ouishelly 7 ай бұрын
I was curious about the Birchbury, even on their website it doesn't look very wide. Are they comfortable? I also have a pair of Feelgrounds and i love them. I bought their first hightop style, but the sole broke within the first 6 months. They sent me a free replacement pair free of charge, though. Did your have any problems with the sole?
@MCJSA 3 ай бұрын
Dude has more shoes than a centipede. "It feels a little moofy to me".... I'm going with the Coloroda Bro primal scream number.
@patrik1214 7 ай бұрын
The flux look amazing. Unfortunately, they do not ship to Germany...
@Jose-Luis.Garnica-Sanchez 7 ай бұрын
Any recommendations for kids? My baby brother is constantly taking his shoes off since he's on the spectrum
@gonikassif8527 7 ай бұрын
Personal recommendations: Vivos, Mukishoes, Sambas The Bambas, Freet
@gurpreetkhamba5399 6 ай бұрын
How about mukishoes? Issues?
@SirBoDen 7 ай бұрын
Lems fit me, 3 pairs of Primal 2, bolder boot when It’s raining here in Washington state.
@dovidwerde7264 Ай бұрын
Why no Vivos?
@thecitiots 3 ай бұрын
I bought a pair of xeros a 2 years ago and they were very comfortable. They look great but they didn't last very long. The quality just was not there. My merrlis are way out lasting these from 4 years ago.
@everything-bagel 2 ай бұрын
For casual style, I highly recommend the Splay brand. They are very wide and comfortable.
@childcrone Ай бұрын
Same here! I saw he had a pair in a group he tossed aside saying he never wears. I like that they're natural cotton canvas & rubber, well-made, and about as foot-shaped as you can get. They're my everyday erranding and road/trail walking sneaker.
@everything-bagel Ай бұрын
@@childcrone Good points, they are also one of the widest barefoot shoes on the market. For me that makes a big difference in comfort level.
@stretchoxford7835 7 ай бұрын
Experimented with Xeros (too goofy, tread didn’t last), Vivobarefoot (too narrow, too ‘zero’; for looks rather than performance), Have a pair of Altra running shoes (good cushion, but feels too ‘mushy’ most of the time) and have landed fully on Lems. On my second pair of outlander boots, just purchased the summit, and like you I live in my Primal Zens the rest of the time. Costs in UK are insane (£215 which is over $270 for boots, £145/$180 for trainers) but for me they’re by far the best. My only bugbear for all barefoot shoes, is that per pair they are more expensive than ‘standard’ shoes (even guaranteed non-sweatshop ones) AND they don’t last as long. So instead of forking out £100 for shoes which last 2+ years, I’m spending over £200 for pairs which, if I’m lucky, last a single year.
@JoeYatesAlaskanFilms 2 ай бұрын
My feet and knees hurt when I wear regular shoes and my Achilles hurt when I barefoot shoes. What do I need to do to avoid the Achilles pain?
@childcrone Ай бұрын
There are some YT channels ( www.youtube.com/@barefootstrength is a good one) that have how-to-transition videos. I think you probably need gentle stretching and to wear the barefoot shoes for short periods of time at first, gradually increasing the time.
@Squid_nSpace 6 ай бұрын
My groundies have been holding up for the past 3 years
@joshrivas17 7 ай бұрын
What happened to your origos?
@jacobbaty5193 6 ай бұрын
Origos are GREAT!!!!
@YouCanChangeYourWorldToday 6 ай бұрын
My only shoes I own ! Barefoot Sandals Barefoot Dress shoes Barefoot Boots
@vickonstark7365 4 күн бұрын
👍🏼
@joshrivas17 7 ай бұрын
I Get vintage chase videos on this one …
@alexzeek8985 2 ай бұрын
ONLY Vivobarefoot !
@davesolberg 7 ай бұрын
I cant get behind flux. I have a pair, but the toe box is very narrow.
@kashhmooney 4 ай бұрын
Make sure to specific you have the trainers. The runners are extra roomy
@andyanderson5332 5 ай бұрын
Viibram Five Finger shoes for everything except formal occasions…and even those sometimes if you can get away with it. Don’t understand the haters. If they look ugly to you then that means feet look ugly as well.
@potjezout1473 6 ай бұрын
Fleeters is a french barefoot company and minr opinion that they are the best looking barefoot sneaker
@jacobbaty5193 6 ай бұрын
How are they as a shoe, on your feet? How do they perform?
@potjezout1473 6 ай бұрын
@@jacobbaty5193 they are comfortable sneakers with some cushion and have a wide toe box (not the widest though).
@jamesclawson9243 5 ай бұрын
Those do look good. Wish they used real leather though
@potjezout1473 5 ай бұрын
@@jamesclawson9243 yes me too thats a big downside, because it's not as durable as real leather
@sebakrol3433 2 ай бұрын
Wildling are only one that look slick, at least on my foot. Most barefoot shoes look like you stole them from grandma.
@nosaj5874 5 күн бұрын
If your donating any shoes I’ll take them size 10 lol
@user-jl2wd1it8h 16 күн бұрын
My name is Harmony Justice Blessing I'm a trans Californian who struggles with cannabis addiction. I also love barefoot shoes and spread the word. I enjoy wearing mine while sipping sustainable soy based nutrient paste. It helps keep the voices away along with my treatments. Thank you. Thank the Lord.
@curtpopejoy9884 7 ай бұрын
People who invented barefoot shoes are marketing geniuses. We will charge your more for less shoe. Brilliant.
@SirBoDen 7 ай бұрын
I’d say the same thing about the people who brainwashed most people into thinking they need orthopedic shoes to correct problems they don’t have. And the wearing of those shoes actually causes people to need orthopedic shoes.
@DNAtraveling 7 ай бұрын
Nike shoes release different colours of the same shoe and people freak the fuck out ... Yeah nah
@curtpopejoy9884 7 ай бұрын
@@SirBoDen Ok.
@curtpopejoy9884 7 ай бұрын
@@DNAtraveling It's a wacky world.
@billmmckelvie5188 2 ай бұрын
I disagree, this is based upon research gleaned by the Altberg company looking at information from Podiatrists in the U.K. and experience from the Falklands war. .
@billmmckelvie5188 2 ай бұрын
I disagree, half of these I would not class as a barefoot shoe. Surely a true bare foot shoe is a Vibram skin on the bottom of a shoe that is a thin as glove and separates out the toes. You get 2 years out of a shoe and you have battered them. Do you need to go to all these trendy boots where less thickness is supposedly more. No you need to have your foot sized on a Brannock foot sizing guide. Then you look for a decent Gibson or a Chukka boot, your toes will never be cramped. Now back to that 2 years shoe life. With a decent pair of wide fit leather shoes, yes wide fit shoes are available if you now were to look. On a pair of leathers with a replaceable sole. With correct care it will last a lifetime not just 2 years.
@donkeyfly43 5 ай бұрын
you standing on that super flimsy table, watching it bow worryingly under your weight, gave me so much anxiety I had to turn the video off before you made any of your points.
@HEYitsTRAV 5 ай бұрын
Lems is my go-to. I have the Boulder boots in brown and black, I have the canvas chukka, the nine to five dressy kind of shoe, and their Primal 2 sneaker. All great!
@Atlas_B170 14 күн бұрын
Jim Green has a barefoot version of their venerable African Ranger boot. Definitely recommend checking that out
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