Thank you for pointing these things out to us. Now I know that I've been setting my machine for way too long. 5 minutes or so would make the cleaning process much faster, rather than 20-30 minutes like I have been doing. All the other points you've made are excellent too, and I have made note of all of them. Thanks very much 👍 👍 👍

Afternoon Paul👋🏻always enjoy these technical vids to help us understand and take care of our vinyl better...thanks- Lis

For me it's the best analysis I've seen so far, thank you

Interesting and informative. Well done, Paul.

Outstanding video. Thank you!

Science class is in session again! I wasn't sure you would still recommend ultrasonics after that intro 😉 These videos are really unique and deeply informative, thanks Paul!

First I like your H2O model. You made this topic quite interesting. I don’t know a ton about ultrasonic but you made it very easy to understand especially for us slow people. Glad the fifth tip circled back around to the first myth. Very interesting Paul. Steve

Paul, first, thanks for this concise but expository overview of ultrasonics when it comes to cleaning records. I’ve been a huge fan of this method, and though I don’t use it at the moment (I use vacuum cleaning [VPI] with manual pre-cleaning), I’ve been researching various Usonic models over the past year, and this video is just confirmation that I need to pull the trigger on a unit sometime this year. Second, now you’re costing me MORE $$$ ;-) See you soon brother. - TONE

I'll definitely be lowering my cleaning times going forward, great info here paul

Brilliantly explained, and very thoughtful and useful myth busting.

Thanks for clear presentation.

Well I finally have to hand it to the KZfaq algorithm for steering me to a really helpful and informative video. Fascinating. I see by looking at your previous videos that I have a lot of deep diving to do. I was particularly interested in your presentation because I am on the verge of buying the Kirmuss ultrasonic machine (I am in US - East Coast), mainly due to it's attractive pricing. Will take a closer look at your video collection to help me decide. Thanks for the great vid. As they say, "hit subscribe." I did.

Very helpful. Thank you!

Well done video I have been considering but have reservations. Your video is very insightful thanks. Great job ...

Thank you for pointing these things out to us.

Very interesting, Paul! Pre-cleaning for the win!

Excellent - someone who thinks and applies scientific understanding. refreshing.

Thank You for this video. I am a huge believer in wet cleaning a vinyl LP. I have been piqued by Ultrasonic Cleaners. I wonder if they are the greatest cleaning method. After watching this video, I have concluded that there is both a benefit and a detriment to using an ultrasonic device. I have decided to stay with my tried and true record cleaning style, warm water and a few drops of dish soap. And then a bath in the Spin Clean using distilled water. I get very clean LPs with minimal surface noise. In truth, I suspected than an ultrasonic cleaner would leave the vinyl with some pitting issues from the cavitation.

That was wonderful and informative, Paul! I'll have to watch it again to wrap my head around the science parts. Thank you for doing this! Cheers, Tom

Very interesting,great job.

Great video, thanks

Great science based approach - thank you! For dirty records I use a SME Loricraft machine. Probably even better for dirty records would be a pre-clean with the Loricraft and final clean with the an ultrasonic such as an Audio Desk machine. $$$$$ My Loricraft is relatively quiet. It takes about 15-20 minutes to clean a record if you carefully follow the directions. I have never seen a Loricraft how-to video on KZfaq that accurately shows the proper use of the machine. Fremmer has a video on the Loricraft but he rushes the process and misses important steps. Fremmer does mention using the Loricraft and following up with the Audio Desk. Thanks again for your research based video and excellent presentation.

I'm thankful for this video! I've been using a VPI 16.5 for about 10 years. I've always wanted to step up to ultrasonic, but the machines were out of my price range. I'm just starting to seriously research since new ultrasonic machines are far lower in price. So any (real) information I can get on the process as a whole is VERY helpful. Thanks again!

Very useful information.

Thanks for this clear explanation. I'm going to make my own US cleaner. However I think I also need 2 Knosti's to pre-clean and rinse the most dirty records. In other words a lot of work. But when it works, I sit with a smile enjoying my 'repaired' records.

What you said pretty much is what I have been doing. Except that I still use Triton X100, but I probably will stop. I do a Spin Clean rinse after the ultrasonic to get the clinging dirt off. Thanks for the video.

I LOVE this video!

Hi Paul. Once again a very interesting subject and answers. I really enjoy my hobby of record collecting, playing and even cleaning. I just received a Degritter and can’t wait to give it a go. I remember you had one and wondered if you still use it. And if so so you use any cleaning agent or surfactants in yours. I have several new records I will clean first and I’m leaning toward not using anything but distilled water. Thanks again for all your videos. I really enjoy them all.

thanks for the video!

Hey Paul, great video. Enjoyed it. Jeff

Excellent!

appreciate for advice, Sir !

brilliant! Thanks

Really interesting vid Paul... I don’t know about the science of cleaning records but I know there is always a pay off between mechanical cleaning and solvent based cleaning. A problem with using non ionic surfactantants in solution is that it needs to be “cleared” after being on the surface as a “secondary treatment”. As you said vinyl is not completely water repellant and the grooves will potentially trap both pollutants and surfactant residue. I imagine most stronger solvent solutions (eg Isopropyl alcohol with deionised water) would evaporate better at higher temperatures but are likely to soften the structural integrity of the record. I think that ultrasonic cleaning is the least invasive method, followed by deionised water which is dried at ambient temperature. Cleaning with poultices should also minimise abrasion but removing the residue is problematic.

Hi I would like to say that I have watched quite a few thing on you tube about Vinyl records cleaning , care , ect and found you .....this is a guy I can trust ....thank you so much for your time ....the only other comment is what sort of temperature would you use ....??

Thanks for the info!

Paul a highly informative video - thank you. Is there a particular brand of ultrasonic cleaner you prefer?

Great and very insightful video. Thank you for doing this. So If ultrasonic is damaging the records (based on the study you cited), what is the most effective yet safe way to clean your records?

Hello Paul, thanks for the insightful information. I’m debating myself with a Degritter since I’m kinda lazy about record cleaning :). Trying to get to a conclusion from your perspective, best way to clean a NM, VG+ or even VG record would be a the Degritter, high frequency, short cleaning time and using alcohol?

sensible and scientific, very good

Thanks a really interesting video. When I started with ultra sonic cleaning I did not believed in those scrubbing bubbles. The thing is that i do not see anything in the bath/water. But after a interesting test with aluminium foil in the ultrasonic bath I saw the foil get destroyed with holes in 30 to 60 sec. So something was happening. It is a good test to perform now and then to ensure the effectiveness and to confirm that all the ultrasonic transducers works as they should. Another TEST is if you use very much isopropanol then the surface tension or ~25% lower density than water. In that situation we will more likely see the formation of all the bubbles implode. Yes I suspected that ultrasonic erode the vinyl. Another observation is that really noisy (clicks and pops) records when they are clean I mean actually really clean and still noisy. Even IF you try "I will keep trying clean out those not normal higher levels of noise. By make prolong the ultrasonic cleaning time to it get to normal level of clicks and pops!" That do not work even if you clean the record for 30 min (!) the clicks and pops will NOT get removed so it is not revirginize the record and ultrasonic cleaning will not perform miracles. The clicks and pops is IN the vinyl of that record nothing we can do about it for that record that is we have better and worse compounds like super vinyl and so on.. (maybe get another pressing that were done at a different record pressing plant that likely used a other mix or formula that is probably less nosy). Anyway just my own experiences and keep up the good job! :-D

Interesting video

Hey Paul - first one here! Great informative video - I am still using the Project VC2 cleaner - but I have been considering the ultrasonic route though - which model do you suggest or is it ok to take the DIY route? Or have I missed a video when you talk about this elsewhere on your channel?

Great video. A watt recommendation would be fine. How much do you need to be effective - and how much is too much?

Goed advies.

Hi Paul, very interesting video. What ultrasound frequency do you use/recommend for cleaning vinyl? Presumably this method cannot be used for the solid 78 Shellac records?

A very good and informative video. I'm using the iSonic CS 6.1-PRO for my 78 rpm records, which are made from shellac and not vinyl. I usually clean ten at a time for 12 minutes in 25 Celsius water. Would you, for shellac which contains a certain amount of organic material, recommend a shorter cleaning time or any other adjustments?

Thanks a lot. I clean at 26-28 celcius arround 6 minutes. Motor spin 2,5 round Per minute. No filter yet. Activated charcoal? Techni 8:56 al artificial citron wool? What do you use in The filter, please?

This guy is a genius.👌!

Hey Paul, thanks for the information! Just ordered a Humminguru, any experience?

Thank you for this great video and lots of important information. But I have a question. So you say to keep the cleaning time down to five minutes or so. But each time you clean the record you’re compounding that to five, 10, 15, 20… Isn’t that essentially doing the same thing over time as cleaning the record for 30 minutes? I look forward to your response. Thanx

I thought so, that an ultrasonic machine would erode the record's surface just as water erodes rocks. Why would it be any different with soft PVC? I intend to use compressed air to dry the records, I have a little compressor motor for tires, although I'm hesitating about that, if it would be too aggressive for the vinyl too.

Greetings Paul, Great video and very interesting info on possible vinyl degradation with ultrasonic cleaning. My home built vacuum system, info below, seems to get whatever grime/dirt which can be removed, out. I have been looking at less expensive ultrasonic cleaners and found one for ~$250 and it will do up to 6 disk at a time; the unit is made by Vevor. No purchased yet. This will sound crazy but I plan to use the vacuum system and then check on a turntable for noise etc. second step will be ultrasonic cleaning for 5 minutes and a final cleaning with my vacuum system. this will be to clean any possible grunge from the ultrasonic system water. One huge advantage to me is you vacuum off the residual water and contaminates on a vacuum system which is NOT done on an Ultrasonic system and my thinking about a 3 step cleaning process. Most of the time, 1 or, sometimes 2 passes with my vacuum system is all that is needed. However, once in a while, the results are not as good as I would like. Adding the ultrasonic step may make a difference occasionally. Hoping !!! This sounds like nuts but most vinyl fans, self included, are a little out there..LOL I lived through the era of, "vinyl is dead and CD's are the answer." I even bought several high end CD players which were very good but the vinyl with it's flaws always seemed more musical to me. The important part of a vacuum system is good wet/dry vacuum cleaner and a vacuum wand. I bought an old platter on ebay for $10 and used a microwave rotisserie motor, free from a scrapped microwave oven. Using my table saw, I built a box to house the platter and wand and I believe it works better than anything you can buy, primarly because of the vacuum unit I bought called the BEAST. I bough mine when they were selling for ~$75 and now, new on Amazon they are ~$100. I suspect you can find a good one on epay for less. All and all I have about $120 in my vacuum unit. Others have put up videos on DIY record cleaners on YT. Here is the wet/dry vacuum I bought and it dose the job very well. www.amazon.com/dp/B074BR5RV9/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=1a6701f89da36a5e6b11d0b801279370&hsa_cr_id=5675002680101&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=d1b0c7e7-c749-432b-a501-cb2bfabc8199&pd_rd_w=OM2t3&pd_rd_wg=pOKGl&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_1_img And you can spend a fortune on the various digital formats, DAC's, transports, cables bla bla bla or put on some good vinyl jazz, classical etc and life is good. Best regards, Glenn USA

terrific. thanks for the science. i built a DIY cleaner with vacuum and tergitols, and now have a VEVOR US bath to try. the rotation seems a bit fast, maybe 4 or 5 rpm, do you think it matters?

it looks like, the degritter is more expensive than cheaper ones as it runs at 120 kHz, cheaper ones (including converting a desktop one used to clean jewelry run at 40kHz. Which may cause damage - still to be determined with records. Looking for similar ultra sonic cleaners, there is a clear jump in price with higher frequencies. From a 100 bucks to about 1000 bucks I've considering just getting one of the cheap ones and converting it to hold lps (other people do) and now I'm wondering if that is not the right path.

I just bought a Degritter record cleaning machine but I haven't opened it yet. Should I just return it?

Hello Paul, if I just use distilled water and alcohol for ultrasonic process, do you think it is necessary to rinse it just with water after the process ?

I have observed a strange phenomenon with regards to cleaning records with this method. It appears that they have demonstrated cleaning only new and already clean vinyls! None has ever played any dirty record before and after cleaning with this method!

Could the weight loss from the disc after ultrasonic cleaning be the dirt etc. and not vinyl ?

You may think I'm crazy, but I use Totally Awesome Orange cleaner from Dollar Tree. One tablespoon with 8 oz of distilled water (16/1 ratio), a couple of drops of Dollar Tree dish detergent, and one tablespoon of 99% Isopropyl alcohol. The records look and sound great after cleaning with my VPI HP17 record cleaner.

How to clean moldy old records ? Please recommend. Thanks

and now: brace yourself for some highly educational content. nice one.

when starting to work ,the material used on bacterial culture i used to clean it in a ultrasonic bathtub but high temperature water and ultrasound ,the first seems not good to records and the second one couldn´t be in the same room or would get crazy with the sound coming from the machine, so this ones to clean records don´t seem to make noise ,is it really a ultrasonic machine?

Since you are using the Degritter with no surfactant, how long do you have the drying time set to for a medium wash ?

Hi, does anyone know if Humminguru is safe to use? Also would I be better off with vacuum machine because I do not want to degrade the record? It seems ultrasonic can degrade the vinyl. Thanks for your comments!

Hi X junkie NL, excellent video. Thank you. Do you have any views / thoughts on ultrasonically cleaning records regarding the following; 1) Location of the Transducers i.e. bottom mounting Transducers (like the typical commercial ultrasonic cleaning baths for normally cleaning jewelry, metal objects etc. suspended in a hanging basket that are also being used for cleaning records with a record spinner) or side mounting Transducers (like the Degritter Huminguru & KLaudio LP200T dedicated ultrasonic record cleaning machines) ? 2) The ultrasonic frequency used (ranging from 40kHz up to over 200+ kHz) for record cleaning ? 3) The actual power of the ultrasonics cleaning the record (with the volume of water inside the Ultrasonic Cleaning Machine playing an important part i.e. typical commercial ultrasonic cleaning baths having a large volume of water in comparison to the Degritter, Huminguru and KLaudio LP200T dedicated URCMs which have relatively small volumes of water for the actual cleaning of the record (i.e. not the volume of the water tank that feed these URCMs)) ? Reason I ask these important questions above, is I am considering going down the Ultrasonic Cleaning route for my records even though I currently thoroughly clean my records (and have been the last 10+ years) with my trusty original Keith Monks Classic Vacuum Record Cleaning Machine (which the BBC Archive Dept used to have and use) where I give my records a full pre-wash & main wash regime with the recommended Keith Monks Discovery Cleaning Fluid and the latest technology Keith Monks record cleaning brushes and then a final rinse on the Keith Monks RCM with pure distilled water vacuuming the fluid off between each of these cleaning (pre-wash, main wash & rinse) stages. And yet even after this thorough cleaning regime of my records on my Keith Monks RCM, I can still hear clicks and pops on a lot of my records (I am a critical listener i.e. I listen to most of my records on my TOTL Headphone System - a Hifiman EF1000 Amp with Hifiman Susvara Headphones linked to my CH Precision P1 & X1 Phono Stage linked to my Kuzma XL DC Turntable with Kuzma 4Point 11" Tonearm & MSL Eminent Ex cartridge) even new records that have never been played before. Therefore to remove these clicks and pops wondering and hoping that ultrasonic cleaning will remove them. Your thoughts on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Would love to have your ideas on record vacuum cleaners. Just asking’

I once cleaned sunglasses in an ultrason. For 10 minutes and they came out damaged. Like they were sandblasted. So I’m hesitant to use it for cleaning softer vinyl.

I use a Kirmuss for my basic cleaning, which does use higher frequencies. If the record is noticeably dirty I first clean it on a VPI. I do use a surfactant with the Kirmuss. The last step is a much smaller reservoir, less expensive ultrasonic machine. It runs at 40kHz which I don't like but I have ultra pure water for the final rinse. I only do one minute of the final rinse. I've found that the cavitation does a good job of removing trace amounts of surfactant. Apparently the cavitation helps. Since it is a very clean record all I'm after is removing the surfactant, which allows me to rinse a number of records reusing the same batch of laboratory grade water.

You hooked me with your H2O molecule 😂

How do we know the weight loss observed in the study was due to loss of Noryl material and not loss of dirt and debris? I would expect a clean record to weigh slightly less than a dirty one.

What is the angle of the bottom of the groove?

Interesting but I think a good basin type cleaning with a vacuum, rinse and vacuum will do as well as US. I think myth #6 is that US is the ultimate record cleaning method. Give me a solution of distilled water, Triton X-100 and Iso alcohol (leave off the alcohol if you want), submerge the record in a basin with goat hair brushes, spin it a few times. For especially dirty records you might want to scrub with a painter's pad first. Take a shop vac and vacuum it dry, put it in a rinse basin with distilled water, spin it a few times and vacuum it dry. If that doesn't remove the noise odds are good that it's vinyl damage not dirt particles that make it sound pop, click or hiss. That's just my opinion.

The Kirmuss machine is about the same prices as the VPI and has been developed to be effective and safe.

Great video, thanks for the insights. Any thoughts on the rotational speed of the records in the bath? My motor on my Isonic cleaner is a fast 5 rpm some say it needs to be slower. With damage possibly being done durning longer wash times, are slow rotational speeds a bad thing by slowing that moving target down?

From 1 Paul to another Yes as always I enjoyed this video like your others. I'm also using a Ultrasonic record cleaning now Along with a 2nd drying rack that spins while 5-6 records are beaning cleaned in the machine 5-6 are spinning & drying then I use my Pro-Ject VC-s machine to remove off any excess liquid off the record.

I use distilled water, a splash of Isopropyl alcohol, 8 minutes on new LPs, 12 minutes on old or very dirty LPs and water at 32 Celsius, anything above that and LPs warp, sure they spring back once cooled but still makes me nervous.

Die spullen om de effecten te visualiseren doen mij altijd denken aan de middelbare school haha Leuk gedaan 😜 Ik ben wel verbaasd dat ultrasoon vinyl zou kunnen beschadigen, maar is de beschadiging ook echt significant na 5 minuten?

Gewoon dreft met tap water werkt prima. Wel snel zijn. Heb alles geprobeerd maar dat is het snelst en de rest krijgt het niet schoner. En er kan ook het minst mis gaan als je een goed systeem hebt.

Great stuff paul would you add alcohol

One comment - only about 1/3 of the record is immersed in the cleaner at any given moment. Running the cleaner for 5 minutes represents cleaning the whole record for only 1.67 minutes. Running it for 30 minutes really mean cleaning the whole record for about 10 minutes.

So how do clean our vinyl in easy method?

Thanks for this Paul! One option is to use the surfactant directly on the record, (rubbed in with a brush) and then removed with distilled water before putting the record in the ultrasonic cleaned. That make sense to you?

Only just now I hvave come across your article. Interesting read Thanx. Whoever thought that applying ultrasonic cleaning at any of the accepted frequencies for 30 minutes and 100°F is going to be anything but disastrous. I'd be very worried if my records were subjected to temperatures of 100° even in storage or use. With respect, citing tests on a material "similar" to the constuent materials that make up vinyl is not particularly scientific, its more about assumptions and speculation as materials can react completely differently, even though they seem similar. Whilst I agree vinyl is not entirely hydrophobic, it does display some of those characteristics, I tried removing all static before pouring distilled water on a record and it reacts just the same. It wants to pour away and sits on the surface. In my trial and error tests only tiny amount of ilfotol is required to break water surface tension and my results are far better sonically for using than not. I also don't believe Ultrasonic cleaning is needed much once the record is cleaned properly and stored in good conditions. I don't think ultrasonics are that good at cleaning oily residues from records with just plain distilled water. I now have two Humming Guru machines, one of which I use for the clean whilst the second I use for a rinse dry but I also spritz the surface of the record with distilled water spray before it goes into the final rinse and dry. It's the only way I can keep most of the contaminants if any, picked up from the water bath surface or suspended in the cleaning reservoir away from the cleaned record. I know I could go on and on in this respect, but sonically, I have reached an optimal solution where it takes between 10-15 minutes to obtain great results on my system playback. I use a pretty resolving TT with a line contact Moving Coil cartridge which easily tells me if I have done a good job. Finally I would add I still use a knosti with "Arte du Son" fluid, if I purchase a record second hand that has bad oily contamination, before then spritzing and running through the two stage process mentioned earlier. All my judgements are based on listening, not so much the visuals. Thanks for your article. There was much to agree with, not least, that Ultrasonics have an important role, particularly in the first proper clean and enjoyment of vinyl playback.

How much Ilfotol do you recommend using to clean a record if just destilled water and ultrasonic does not remove a fingerprint?

I got me a Degritter. One lump sum of $2800 and my records clean themselves better than I could manually. The cleaner the record, the cleaner the stylus / brushes / record sleeves. Most importantly, the sound is crisp like a CD unless it's a bad pressing. Not being able to tell for sure drove me nuts before.

what about alcohol isopropanol say 10% in your water? talking about water whats better distilled or deionised? I thought about turning my disco antistat into sonic cleaner not sure what frequency now! I was going to use 40 kHz should I go higher something like 80-100 kHz

A Spin Clean & Tergikleen works best for me.

30 minutes of ultrasonic by 40° Celsius is not what I Would call a cleaning time which is similar the way I clean my records, rather 5 min max room temperature water no solvent so if there is wear and tear in my case it is too small to hear it back and is on par with the wear the stylus does on the groove. thx again informative and entertainment as usual 👊

Other test show that 40kHz ultrasonic cleaner do damage to record after 3-4 cleaning 6 min each. 120+kHz not. So if you wash once or maybe two times you should be ok.

Audio Desk is most safety and best quality than any others.

Could the weight loss be debris that’s no longer there?

Pre-cleaning does seen by far the most reasonable option. If not done, one is at best putting excess of grime into the solution. It might be best thought of that we are not cleaning records but we are removing contaminants of different natures (size, etc.). Therefore, it makes best sense to use the best cleaning method for the nature of the contaminant, hence, pre cleaning. Thanks for another fine presentation!

I stopped using mine on new records after doing some listening tests. I thought I heard some dulling if the sound. I only use it on super dirty records.

Why would we use ultrasonic if there was a possibility of vinyl erosion Is the benefits so great that we’re willing to be very careful and take the chance 🤔

Using PVC/wood glue?

Hello. Great video. I actually have just purchased a degritter less than a week ago. And am super confused about whether or not to add the cleaning solution or just use distilled water. All the records in my collection are purchased new or in NM condition. So would you say the distilled water alone would be enough on the medium cycle? I really appreciate your help or anyone’s advice on here. Thanks so much. Joe

The prices of these devices, ....man! Can you provide us with a cheaper alternative? Tnx! Keep 'm coming.

35°C is the maximum, what a record can stand. They developed compact cassettes, that can stand more, to fit better with car stereo systems.

I only use my ultrasonic cleaner for pre-cleaning . Then the Loricraft is doing the final......