Prince Vogel supremely offended that Shannon would even /imply/ that he wouldn’t remember the Ewok movies 🤣❤️

What makes or breaks a show for me is the message, character arcs, and the finale. This show failed in all three areas for me. I guess we are supposed to be happy that two killers ended up together? Sol made a mistake out of ignorance and impulsivity, killing Aniseya because she turned into a smoke monster and started turning Mae into smoke. Sol remained tormented by guilt. Osha chose to deliberately and slowly force choke Sol to death, Mae stalked and killed Indara and Torbin. Neither Twin shows remorse. Indara did not do anything wrong. She and Kelnacca were there to remove Sol and torbin, and when the witches violated Kelnacca's mind, Indara freed him which accidentally killed the witches. Mae and Osha do not seem concerned about the complexity of the situation, or the witches role in it, or even the fact that they are one being split in two. They are very unlikable characters. I actually liked Yord and Jecki, Sol and Qimir were intriguing.

Damn, Rocha made a superb point that swapping the actresses for Vernestra and Indara might've definitely been far more effective in hindsight. Key word being hindsight.

When Mae knocked osha out took her clothes and left to either be killed Darth silver fang, or wild animals! after telling quimir I quit my sisters alive this changes everything , but now in episode 8 u want us to believe they love each other!?😂😂😂 And another thing if they are the same person why can't they sense the other is still alive? No answers just go with it!!😂😂😂

Someone in the live chat mentioned how Sol was training younglings at the temple on Coruscant when Indara dies so how do you pin that on him. Then my addition to that is there are witnesses to Mae killing Indara which we see in... episode 1? So we have witnesses and records of Sol not being anywhere near Indara when she dies /and/ we have witnesses who saw Mae do it so...

There is cool stuff in the show for sure. I think you nailed it. If you described the story, it's actually really interesting and cool. But I just simply lost interest in the central story, as the twins are just switching back and forth on the fly in a matter of hours?

When last we saw Mae, she was running from something. When last we saw Osha, she was waking up severely out of breath. *Every episode

Mae’s mind was wiped in order to keep the Jedi from finding out about Osha and Qimir. They explained that in the episode….Is it a cop out? Yes lol

I just don’t give a shit about the twins

This is how plagueis is in the book. Creepy guy in a cave. “Open a book”

I wonder if Qimir wasn't aware that Plagueis was there on the planet. He was secretly checking out what his apprentice has been up to.

We still have no explanation why Anasea started turning into space dust in the flashback.

I agree that the twins had very little personality as individual and it was no reasons & backstory. Looks like Sol nod his head for Osha to kill him.

I would have liked to have seen the actresses and/or characters flip in Ahsoka and Acolyte. Put Shin Hati as the Acolyte, and Mae or Osha as Baylan Skoll's apprentice in Ahsoka.

They can't even decide what Basil is. Green bald lady says to the team "use the "tracker""... like he's a sniffing dog or an object... but both Yord and Mog treated Basil as a fellow team member. Yord learned his language and communicated with him. And Mog also showed to be familiar with him, saying: "Basil! You're alright, what a relief.". So either green bald lady is a disrespectful jackass towards other species, ... or Basil is not more than a "dog" and Yord actually learned to... "talk dog" at the Jedi Academy.

Trying to remember if I've ever heard Shannon curse as much as he did in this episode... Overall, I'm with you guys on Acolyte: lots of interesting ideas that weren't explored/executed properly. Very disappointing because I loved Russian Doll.

John wants a 10 min exposition piece with Sol and Osha in the middle of this serious tense moment.

Bazel (??) works for the Jedi. Sol pulls up a targeting computer to shoot Mae down. Bazel knows this is against Jedi teachings (and that Sol seems a little out of control) so he rips wires to stop anything horrible happening. Not that any of this is clear, hence so many people getting confused (don't blame them). One of (many) gripes, but the one that sticks out at the moment - Osha and Mae reunite. They talk. They _fight_ - and not 5 minutes later they're back to being twin sisters and working together. How'd that happen? They were at each other's throats, and then they were escaping together. So much of this show just feels disconnected. I care not about the gender of writers, directors, actors - what I care about is skill and talent. That's why I struggled with this one. I just want you to tell me a story - that makes sense...

"i wouldn't say tirade...i would say passionate plea" 45:30 🤣

I'd rather they did a "season 2" via a comic, honestly. Some of the ideas and themes are solid, but the execution has been ok to awful. A comic would allow for the fluctuating pacing and allow them to be as dialogue & action heavy as they wanna be

Why is the story not about plagueis and yoda? Like did they really think people would rather watch this show over that?

I dont believe Sol is wrong for killing the mother, unpopular opinion, I felt that he was trying to protect , if he did not act, folks would say he was foolish for not being quick to act, dont think he was selfish

Were there any 2 character relationships that we fully understood and believed in from start to finish? I'm struggling to think of any

Honestly the opening scene of fallout had more emotional heft than this entire series.

Can Lucasfilm just hire professional writers and editors... and let them do their job? Please! As someone who works on high budget entertainment "products", i can say that this stinks of "Cool ideas thrown on a white board and stitched together by committee".

It sucks because in episode 1-2 I was impressed with Amandla. The writing got worse, and trying to get high emption out of anyone in this show is brutal. Any screams or yells are not believable.

I actually liked the scene with the senator raincourt and vernestra and this plot line. The problem is this came far to late in the season (with just 20 minutes to go!) It should have been something that happened in episode 6, so help us understand more the pressure vernestra was under etc. There was a line in episode 5 about a possible sentate hearing, but this should have been in episode 1 to establish this plotline earlier.

The only good thing was Sol deserve what was coming. Vermestra putting the “blame” on Sol is not wrong - as a wise Jedi once said “from a certain point of view “ For me some inconsistencies & unnecessary plots were : 1) The Sith has the rule of only 2. So if Qimir took on Mae and later Osha , wouldn’t Darth Plagueis have eliminated Qimir first ? 2) the 2 girls were suppose have a strong connection and bond through the series . At the end both at a blink of an eye agree to “separate “without any thought. 3)how does Vernestra know her past appreciate was involve ? 4) Brazil in the past episode appear to “know” Mae was disguising as Osha . So why did he sabotage Sol to capture her ? The biggest unnecessary click bait is Darth Plaguies . Totally unnecessary and does not add any value to the series. Yoda end credit is also unnecessary

If the show was Sol vs Qimir it would've been better show

Andor didn’t “raise the bar”. It MET the standard for “Star Wars”. Every Star Wars show should look as good and have as good as writing as Andor did.

Sol v kymer was DOPE though

Osha and Mae are the two worst characters in Star Wars history point blank.. 🤦

The choreography in this episode (and series) and some of the moments (like the kyber crystal being bled) were cool. But damn was this series was just a miss for me.

Darth Teeth helmet? I prefer to call it The Gimp helmet. All you need is Butch, Marcellus and Zed and we have Pulp Fiction in Star Wars.

What I think about Darth Plagueis, is that as long as Lesley and this team of writers are still incharge. I don't want a season 2. just let this show die, leaving thing unresolved. But if they get a show runner in that knows what they are doing, writers that know Star Wars, and can stay consistent within the Lore of Disney Star Wars, then I MIGHT give season 2 a chance, but if not. Leave Plagueis alone. If you can't get me to care about the main characters of season one, then I have no faith that they will do Plagueis justice. Senator Rayencourt had maybe 2 minutes of screen time and I loved to hate his character. so in essence I loved his character. just 2 damn minutes and I was bought in on him, and even Venestra was decent across from him. the only thing she failed to do when he pointed out that if a Jedi went rogue who would be there to stop them was to say. "The Jedi have always protected the Republic from all its enemies, and we will always be there to defend the Republic, just as we did against the Sith." that lil bit of dialogue to me would of cut off the momentum that Senator Rayencourt had built in that scene. Also that scene should of been the very first scene of the show, to establish stakes for the Jedi. I feel like the reveal of Sol killing their mother to Osha, I think they were trying to go with a Vader vs Luke at Bespin. moment, but it fell utter flat. If you know in the script the man playing vader, says to Luke. "No Obi-Wan killed your father." But the director pulled Mark Hamill aside and said, this is what he is going to say, but what is actualy going to be in the film is "No, I am your Father." I want you to react to that. but because the relationship between them was so muddled, and each of their own motivations are murky at best. It just falls flat in my opinion. I should of been called a Force Nexus, not vergence.(This right here is where I debunk Micheal Vogel saying Lesley knows her shit. I'm sorry but using a Force Nexus would of done 2 things. It would of fufilled the purpose she needed from the Vergence, and it wouldn't of pissed off us hardcore fans. But no, she used the vergence because she wants to leave her own stamp on thing, because she thinks she knows better. Then we see in an interview she has to step it back and be like No no the vergence is on the planet, not the girls. Ummm too late b*tch ya done f**k up.) I am a nerd, of Pre Disney Star Wars. And before disney I remember the Ruusan Reformation, where before it the Jedi were much more involved in the daily life fo the Republic. The Jedi held military ranks, they had armadas, armies, and personal Ships. The Jedi even had their own people as Senators within the Senate. but after the Ruusan Reformation, they gave that all up to establish trust with the people of the Republic, whom feared that the Jedi might turn into Sith themselves. So the Jedi gave up their military ranks, armadas, armors, ships, and armor. They left the Senate, and put on Robes to go from being soldiers, to keepers of the peace. So all I see the over side as, is just the Republic holding their piece of candy, seeing the Jedi have one, and wanting that one as well. No no no no. Yoda elects NOT to tell the Senate that they have lost their ability use the Force effectively. They key Maul a secret for a time, because they are investigating. I can not remember one time that Yoda lied to anyone in the Senate about the Sith. Not if you want to argue about whether Omitting info is as bad as covering up. I'll have that debate, but I'm not going to sit back and let you say that Yoda covered shit up when really what he did was Omit certain truths.

The actress playing Mai/Osia (however you spell them) had the same expression for all her emotions 🤦

I think we need movies and show to go FORWARD in time. Hundreds of years after Skywalker saga, in the in-world legend Rey or whoever reestablished the Jedi as a more humane order. In the first movie we get to follow a person who stumbles upon a Sith Holocron (Revan?) who then learns about the Sith of old and we get to follow that person fall deeper into the dark side and culimnates in him/her establishing the beginnings of a new Sith Empire. Then we'd have somewhat of a blank slate with some world building done already. With very little baggage of what's been done before. But this would also mean that they need to find their own Kevin Feige for SW. Someone who can have creative oversight and whose main focus is to create GREAT and compelling stories.

1:07:35 I agree with Roca on this!. At this point, I dont have any faith that Disney would do a good job with Yoda and Plagueis, should this show somehow get a 2nd season! Especially given their recent history with the likes of Luke, Boba Fett, Obi Wan, Thron etc.

What is sad about the streaming era is that it used to be fairly normal for a series to have a weak first season and still get a chance to hit their stride in the next, but now everything gets axed.

Why did Torbin kill himself? Why did Kelnacca exile himself. Nothing makes sense.

Were we supposed to hate Sol? He was a little creepy and he killed Aniseya but I still don't hate him. The way Aniseya died felt like an accident not intentional. Vernestra was so unlikable and the actress was terrible. Qimir was interesting at the beginning then he just turned into the guy with the exposed arms. 😂

I liked the Acolyte story. I wish Disney/ Lucas/Marvel would get away from the sub 30 minute episodes and only 8 at that. If they gave this show 40+ minutes per episode or gave us 12-16 episodes they could have fleshed out some of the characters and their relationships. It felt rushed towards the end especially

All great thoughts, and I wanted to say something on every point you made. Kudos for making people feel like they wish they were right there with you to chat. Buddies indeed. 💚 But I ll just say: (a) hands down, the best light saber duels, sure, but also top 5 action choreographies across Disney+. (b) just disappointing really. Because of the clear potential. Should have gone muchhh darker (which I also hope they do with the tv Harry Potter) (c) a thought I didn’t hear you make: so, Osha went from not being able to use the Force to being soooo much stronger than Sol, and immediately upon hearing a throw away one line confession? What? It’s just so unbelievable. Even Goku in Dragon Ball gets hammered a million times before upgrading, and everyone believes it, no matter how ridiculously high the upgrade is…build up matters. (d) a show not understanding how time works and not developing stories and archs bases thereon also bothers me sooooooo much, Rocha. It also pissed me off in The Bear S2, which I still absolutely love. One week internships, not matter the restaurant, does not support that much of a personality and skill change in people, definitely not Richie, especially considering what he was doing in his first few days. Just say it was one month, give the characters the time. You can still just say whatever additional time that means they have to open the restaurant is tight and show the chaos and intensity leading up to it. It bothers me so much because they are such easy fixes, which sadly was also the reason I was disappointed with this show. Easy fixes. Unexplainable misses. Anyway. (e) 🩷 y’all!

Loved your guys' conversation. It wasn't just 60+ mins of screaming "this show sucks" like some people do. You touched on the things you liked but elaborated on what was bad and presented other ideas that could've worked well. For me, I enjoyed it although I admit there were many flaws. Like Vogel said, Star Wars has become like a favorite sports team. Even in their worst years, there was always a player or two I loved watching that kept the season somewhat enjoyable.

I watch all the fett series and managed to get through Asoka but I gave up after falling asleep during the first 2eps and I have been a fan since 1977

I detest the twins and Venestra. And why did basil break the ship? Absolute rubbish show..and i feel they destroy Sol's character.

Whilst I get casting your kids, spouse, family etc is rife in hollywood, you have to make sure the actor gives a damn good performance to combat the inevitable nepptism claims. Whilst we all joke that James Gun always casts his brother. in his movies , Sean always delivers. Im sure James would not be affraid to tell Sean to do a better take if needed. If Lesley was not able to go up to Rachel and say her performance was not good enough or try better , in fear it might cause problems in their home-life, this is clearly a conflict of interest and should have hired someone else. Or as Roca said, have Carie Anne Moss and Rachel swap roles instead.

We needed the Pensieve scene where Osha sees how it's done...

Sol does not need an alibi for space Trinity murder-there was a witness it was one of the twins...

Qimir and Sol should’ve had a dialog fighting over Osha. It would’ve heightened everything.

I enjoyed the finale for what it was, 40+ minutes of SW TV but as a whole the series was bad. I ended up giving the series a 5.5/10, mainly because it felt like it was juggling too many storylines for the short run times of the episodes/season. I could easily see a way of re-writing this season and not having the twins in it really at all. I wish the Senator/Vernestra (even though her character was extremely wooden and flat) storyline interspersed throughout the season, rather than last couple of episodes, there should've only been one flashback episode (episode 7) and have the Brendok Jedi (aside from Sol) all die off screen, and have the main plot of the story be finding Mae. Indara, Torbin and Kelnacca are just redshirt Jedi given names, they don't matter anymore than the nameless Jedi that Qimir kills in episode 5. The show very interesting and intriguing ideas behind it, but the execution was probably the worst of any Disney+ Star Wars show that we have gotten. It does seem like they are planning on a second season, with the cameos and where it left off. And I can already guess what the main two storylines are gonna be: Vernestra/Mae searching for Qimir, while he trains Osha, and Qimir and Ohsa delving deeper into the Sith lore that Qimir and possibly Plaguies (if Plaugies is Qimir's master) are discovering on this unknown planet

To the idea that there's a great scene between Jecki, Osha, and Sol on Brendok, imagine if they actually went somewhere with the Osha/ Jecki relationship, and Osha is the one to kill, or maybe just injure Jecki after killing Sol. Could have added a layer to the sexual overtones of Osha'a choice if there was an equal potential relationship she was walking away from to choose Qimir.

We enjoyed the show and the finale, but we've accepted that there is (because there ALWAYS has been) a level of sloppiness and wobbily verisimilitude to the story-telling and world-building of Star Wars.

What kind of a world do I live in where everyone seems to hate the Book of Boba Fett more than this? What did I miss about hating that show that everyone seemed to pick up on and think it's worse than The Acolyte? I haven't seen writing this horrible on this kind of production. Ever. Just, literally, EVER. I'm not in any way saying the Book of Boba Fett was great or anything (it was okay...ish) but to compare this to that? It's like comparing a piece of burnt feces to a burnt pile of rubble where you can make out some of what used to be there. Here's a better comparison. The Acolyte compared to the Rise of Skywalker. I fell asleep in the theater watching that movie. It was absolutely terrible. And yet? That absolute garbage of a film is 100x better than The Acolyte. One has actual story to follow that makes sense... in some ways. The other is an incomprehensible mishmash of fantasies. That's it. It's a lurid fever dream led on by a drunken night of wanting some, but ending up alone at night. Let's put it this way: I NEVER... NEVER... thought there would be a time in which I would defend the Rise of Skywalker. Yet, here we are. Seriously, the Rise of Skywalker is something I have never, and will never, even pirate (I find it that revolting). And yet somehow, somehow, it's better than The Acolyte. Also, in comparison in my view: the Rise of Skywalker is not fit to lick the bootheel of the Book of Boba Fett.

None of this made sense to me

Season 2: No thanks.

The best dialogue in this whole series was from the Senator played by the black actor, forgot his name

Senator was wonderful. Vernestra was horrible. Fights were decent. But everything that happens would be better if I cared about these people at all. They want us to like the twins, but they just killed a character I liked. So why would I like them.

I think star wars franchise is very close to being dead. People saying marvel is dead don't know anything. people still care about marvel , they just want consistency. With star wars, its completely dead in the water

Respect for the prequels 😂. How, by bastardizing the origins of Anakin being a vergence in the force. Alluding that Plaguis got the idea from OSHA and Mae and this sect of witches. Headlyne has been on record a few times talking smack against Lucas. She doesn’t know how to play in this sandbox. Similar to Rian Johnson.

Getting mad at "weird things" like bad story telling, horrible writing, and bad acting.

Michael, I love you, but you needed to pay better attention to what happened when the sisters and Qimir were at the tree. Mae chose not to go with the other two, and Qimir used the mind wipe so the Jedi could not find him and Osha by using Mae's memories. It was explained explicitly when they did it. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy this as much as you wanted to. Maybe on a rewatch you will see that some of the things you said were lacking were actually there. Like this example.

The Stranger had the best lines in this shit show.

Great review buddies. Although I see and agree with many of your criticisms, I still enjoyed the show. Its biggest problem was how disjointed the story was. They were going for mysterious, but ended up with confusing. John, I know you love to knock the cowboy hat off Dave, but I put the blame on too many writers (10) that didn't appear to work together.

Introducing Plagueis this way felt gimmicky and further cheapened an already weak show.

I need a episode of this show just talking about the last jedi

If majority of the shows had writing issues

My ending would have just been for Plagueis to outright murder absolutely everyone of them. If you're going to have him in it you may as well make use of him.

There was a LOT to like here, and that's what's frustrating. If each episode was as long as Episode 8, and there were 10 episodes not 8, they could have explained things better, added more character building, and just fleshed things out to tell the story better and more cohesively. I also think that had they made this series, but you remove Mae and Osha, had Qimir be "The Acolyte" who was taken from this Force Cult Coven and later is Vernestra's Padawan before becoming Apprentice Sith Plagueis' Acolyte, it would have worked MUCH better. Much everything else could have remained in some form, but just taking Mae/Osha out, as they and "their story" were the weakest parts of this series, would have improved everything. But that's just IMHO.

I fully agree this show is barely better than Bobba Fett , if they do get another season we need a new showrunner and writers get the Andor or Mando season 1 writers on this please 😂

I'm predicting that Plagueis will end up in a love triangle with Quigmire and Osha. We are going to see Plagueis take off his robe and show his Muun abs, because "he is so hot y'all". Osha will struggle mentally because Quigmire was the first dude she saw nude, but now Plageuis the hung is the second guy she's seen do the helicopter. It has given her a dilemma, and there is a disturbance in the "force-romance".

Lol yes I hate Bazil. Throw Bazil off a cliff. And I've never watched a show in my life with more inconsistent characters making such incomprehensible decisions. Baffling stuff all round. That being said I would watch a season 2. Also it's funny that the people that are the biggest fans of the franchise (Filoni, Headland, JJ) are making the worst stuff whereas the person who is the least passionate about the franchise in Gilroy had made the best Star Wars.

Too many unanswered reason why characters did what they done. I enjoyed concept of bad jedi cops and revenge story but the backstory of why character does things and arrangements of episodes made it hard watch but the fights were great.

I've been very entertained by Ken Napzog and Joseph Scrimshaw's Acolyte talk. Geek Buddies has been a little ranting, but at least you have Mike. Now Kristian Harloff's reviews are unwatchable: pure rant, since episode 7. There's no fun in ranting. Watch Ken and Joseph. This week was interesting, because we can clearly see that Ken was disappointed and Joseph was not too pleased (because of the cliffhanger), but Jennifer Landa loved The Acolyte... and they were very positive nevertheless. I myself lost interest in The Acolyte at episode 4, but I went on watching. It's a 6/10 to me. But boy, I will watch and rewatch that last fight many times, because it was so cool! 😄

At some point this show definitely was what we all thought it would be, with plagueis and Sol/ Jedi order being a mystery trying to find whose been killing Jedi but I think it’s likely filoni did his usual thing of putting younger characters in the centre and just making it too CW and not the tone akin to Andor. This series had the perfect premise and story for Andor and it’s baffling why they chose to shoehorn silly comedy moments that undercut any tension it had. Whoever they got for visuals and choreography give them a movie because those fights imo beat out all but the fight in EP 3.

What would this story have been like without Mae/Osha? Make modifications, but what would the core story be?

Remember when the worst thing about Disney Star Wars shows was the Technicolor Biker gang in BOBF?

That cartman quote seems so profound now

Whew was this nuance for rebel moon? That’s why I’m not buying the fans are toxic narrative. If you have seen TLJ mando s3, solo, boba fett and rise of skywalker you are justified in getting annoyed and vocal

Headlands confirmed that Bazil messed with the ship, because he was questioning what Sol was doing. He tied Mae up and was not acting normal.

As always, you guys deliver some really insightful thoughts about the show which are well discussed. I really hope those working on it take the time to watch and take note. If the show gets a season two, I think there is a real risk discussions like yours will be pushed aside as just more toxic fandom hating on, what has been undeniably a really troubled, uneven production.

How dare you besmirch "Ani, you're breaking my heart." ;-)

Agree I hope this show doesn’t get a season 2 not just because quality wise I don’t think it deserves one but also just so the entire discourse around this show can end from both the I hate everything side and the I love everything side of Star Wars can go back to their corners and leave the sane middle people alone. I’ve never felt as gaslight about anything in my life as I have with people trying to say how good and well written and acted this show is and that I don’t understand it because I’m a hater or I’m not knowledgeable about Star Wars or I’m some ist or phobe, or I’m just a nitpicker or the shows just not for you even though it’s Star Wars or it’s going over your head etc.

I agree with your thoughts about the prequel Jedi including Yoda. Thing is, there are tons of stupid fans who disagree with you because silly reasons like "Prequels are perfection!". I'm afraid that those morons will have to be catered to in every SW show or they will throw their toys out.

Osha trained with the Jedi for TEN YEARS. She learned plenty about using the force, and it's finally able to do it much better after the journey she's been on. And LEAVE BRITNEY (er, I mean FELONI) ALONE!

Does anyone know if this show had extensive reshoots or just went through editing hell?

This is the worst kind of show , wasted potential. We can all see what this show could have been but just wasn’t . If it was just bad we wouldn’t be that upset by it. Like Willow didn’t upset me as it was just bad but this show could of been so much better

My dudes... Sol had no way to prove there was a vergence when he believed Mae was dead. Now that he could bring the "twins" together, he wanted to finally prove it because he believes it's very important for the Jedi to study and understand the phenomenon.

I was out episode 3 and I don't know how you could see all the episode your Beter then me your or real SW fans

The story here is NOT good. All the characters motivation are all over the map, and it makes absolutely no sense. Why did Anakin's lightsaber not turn red when he killed all the younglings? Dumb. dumb. dumb. This is just bad fan fiction.

Yord was awesome

My Ending the “twins” are both taken by Q to train . We find they can shift into one another to become badass Sith Make something new please

Basil…more annoying than Jar Jar!?!?!!?!🤷🏽‍♂️

Teek > Basil.

The mind wipe os so the Jedi cant find Qmir and Osha

Hopefully were done with the woke garbage, doubt it with KK in charge.

I thought it wasa good finale and that there will be a season two.

Great review as always 😊 !!!

I like watching Geek Buddies reaction show more than watching the actual Acolyte show. No season 2 please Lucasfilm. This show has some of the worst writing and directing of any Star Wars show.

Chekhov’s mind wipe