Stoicism repackaged as american self help nonsense. You nailed it with this vid

Stoics are not indifferent to life. They are indifferent to their circumstances, and will not let them stand in their way.

man what is this channel? hidden gem. undersubbed

THANK YOU!! I have thought this for years and can’t believe someone finally agrees with me

No, you are the one who doesn't understand stoicism. You are portraying stoics as passive people who just accept everything that happens to them without trying to change it. Incorrect. They draw a line, they only apply 'passiveness' or indifference to things that are outside of their control (like death, disease, the weather etc.), they actively fight against things which they don't like that are in their control. The root of stoicism is the understanding of which things are outside of our control, those things we shouldn't try to fight, be upset about or change. But things that are in control (our thoughts and actions) we should fight and change in the way that benefits us or society. Also 'Will you stand up and show us what you're made of'' isn't unstoic at all, in fact that is exactly what the stoics are trying to do (bear whatever life throws at them with dignity and grace). Stoics aren't passive cowards that accept all of their life circumstances, they accept only the ones that they can't change.

Think you’ve misunderstood stoic philosophy. Like the “Alpha Males” have on Instagram and TikTok only you’ve gone the other way, where you think that to be stoic you must role over and accept whatever happens to you. Which is not true, the core concept of stoicism is simply to understand what you CAN and CAN’T control - and how to deal with each situation.

It amazes me that this video has not more views and comments. Thanks for challenging. Keep up this important work.

Whatever Ryan is selling it has worked very well for me.

We so needed this

thank you for saying it.

Thank you! This new version of Stoicism, or Broicism, has irritated and interested me for a long time and I could never understand why. Now I understand, its the Existentialism that gets added in that makes it compelling for me.

Having watched some of his vids, I always wondered how some of his stuff mapped to what little I knew of stoicism. Thanks for the analysis.

Great take, very well thought out!

I think that I’d take an even harder stance against Holiday. Stoicism for him is a means is making money. He’s fundamentally a sophist who shills philosophy without living it. However, to your point about “amor fati” I think Epictetus defends Holiday’s position. “what do you think Heracles would have amounted to if there’d been no great lion, no hydra, stag, and boar, and none of the evil and brutal men he drove off and cleared away? What would he have done if there’d been nothing like that in the world? The answer’s obvious, isn’t it? He’d have wrapped himself up and gone to sleep. In the first place, then, he wouldn’t have become Heracles if he’d dozed his life away in this kind of peaceful comfort. And even if he had, what good would it have done him? What use would he have made of his arms and his strength in general? What would have been the point of his fortitude and nobility if there’d been no difficulties such as he faced, no materials to stir him to action and train him?” We are not called to be passive but to accept our role (which may be the role of “challenger”) and to live in accordance with nature (to justly act). Maybe stoicism is existentialist in that within our confines (time, place, gravity, “the ruling principle,” or the will of the gods) we are challenged to be fundamentally free and “obligated” to act justly and not succumb to injustice (or hurdles that look like fate but are within our control and are “preferred indifferences.”) Thanks for making great content! Sorry for the wall of text.

It seems as if you are conflating stoicism and fatalism. Stoicism teaches to accept the circumstances and move forward towards your duty to be virtuous, not to submit to circumstances and resign.

I’ve looked into Stoicism for 15+ years, both through personal study and academically, and so I was initially happy that it became popularized by those like Ryan Holiday …but lately I’ve seen how it has been rebranded. There are still great teachers like Massimo Pigliucci who present Stoicism authentically. Others have skimmed over the parts that they think makes Stoicism look “soft” because it won’t work for the hustle culture message or other ulterior agendas. Of course one cant deny that discipline is a significant part of Stoicism but it is also a virtue based school of philosophy which can positively affect your social relationships. Amazing channel btw. Just subscribed! 💁🏾‍♀️

I always felt that this guy was off in a way but I could never articulate it myself. Thanks for this video. Yours and Academy of Ideas are my favorite philosophy channels on YT.

Spot on!

Ryan Holiday got me into philosophy, but once I started reading the text, I got less and less into what he was selling. Stoicism to me turned out to be very passive and not like what he preaches. He is very self-helpy, and I think he uses his marketing skills, throwing the word "Stocicim" on it as his little edge. Not that he isn't out there motivating and helping people, but again, after reading Meditations and Discourses, they're just not quite the same as what he talks about. Still, I am glad he got me into philosophy, and now that I know classic Stoicism isn't for me, I am looking into what to read next.

This was brilliant. Flat out right!

A very interesting perspective which I found helpful. I’m not schooled in all the traditional aspects of philosophy so don’t feel qualified to comment on them. Is this guy being used by others in an effort to steer the masses? Is he adapting the work of others to suit his message? Is he making a good living from this ? Hell yeah but hey we all gotta eat and clothe are kids. Having said all that I find what he is saying to be very useful in my daily life whatever it’s called. It helps me get my head in order and work out how to tackle difficulty when I face it. He comes across as a genuine character who walks the walk and talks the talk in his life. I think that’s all I want to say.

Turt with the bangers.

Camus isn’t an existentialist. Stop calling someone who’s most famous book is cover to cover “I HATE EXISTENTIALISTs AND AM NOT ONE OF THEM.” It’s unfair to their work

Yes, Holiday's philosophy is popular because it maps so closely onto modern Americanism.

I wish you would have expanded on this somewhat more.

Awesome as always! My prediction: 100k subs within 1 year!

In your argument, I can't help but think what does it mean to be free? What does it mean to be natural? If both are different but can so easily be interrupted as the same, then what makes them different? With what I know now that difference is confidence. If I am confident then I am free to do as I wish. If I am not confident I feel natural to do as I wish. This is like choosing a sport to play versus a sport choosing to play me. Where do my feelings rest?

This was well done.

De Rerum Natura also halps to explain tis confusion. I find a lot of contemporary Stoic thought is more like Epicurus than Epictetus.

Ryan Holiday tosses around the phrase "anti-vaxxer", without ever defining it. I find it hard to take him seriously, which is a shame because he's usually a deep thinker.

Alright. Propbs to you there buddy!

Ryan lost me when he entertained one of the Koch brothers and his son, in yet another attempt by them to rebrand, while never once addressing the elephant in the room.

While I agree that Holiday's marketing of Stoicism is very self-help-ish, this video portrays Stoicism as far too passive. 'Amor fati' is a reminder that we all have only one end, and that we have a duty to live our lives out before we reach that end. Just because we are bound to the ultimate fate of death, it does not mean embracing indifference in the meantime.

a couple of things you said seem to present a contradiction. you say that stoicism says to bring your mentality in line with nature, accepting your destiny. later you say that Holliday is mistaken for saying feel great about what happened feeling great about what happened seems very much like accepting or embracing your destiny. so why the criticism

It’s a decent intro to stoicism but with any new skill or belief I have found it beneficial to learn from the people who started it or made it so successful. One can argue the self-help spin is positive because it would open the philosophy to more people. It goes with the times. Seneca thought it was fitting to have your core beliefs come from your own code of ethics and moral standards, and then align it with the majority of people or society’s typical standards.

"How to Win Friends and Stoic Them"

The cool thing about philosophy is that it morphs and changes to suit the times and the needs of it's current practitioners, we learn new lessons from the same teachers over time

How do you give a video 2 thumbs up? 👍🏻👍🏻

I think you have a point. Definitely. Ryan Holiday is first and foremost an business guy selling a simplified pill labelled "modern stoicism". I have spent a lot of time at uni studying philosophy and have later in life read quite a lot stoicism and I always find Ryan's reasoning dissonant without really understanding why (without mentioning his final sales pitches which just is modern era media I think...). You gave it words even though I think you are pushing it a little to hard. I think actually the point of "memento mori" is to make the best out of it and not just embracing your faith mindlessly.

Aristotle, Socrates, Plato would say to rise above this and live a virtuous life. That is the answer to regret and pain. And do not be ashamed to be a man of virtue. In fact, be proud that you are a man of virtue.

i suggest you to reread the meditations by marcus aurelius (if you ever read it). Your understanding of stoicism is just wrong. Read also Seneca

when you read the original works of stoicism you quickly realize it has a large religious mystical side. Accepting ones fate was in fact accepting Zeus (or the Nous). Reason was a daimon, (or a part of the universal Nous/intelligence at other times), and to reason was to be under the inspiration of a what is in modern english would be called a demi-god, Much more merged into intuition or a specific guardian spirit that accompanies one through events of ones life.Eudaimmonia, the goal of Stoicism was to be possessed by the daimon of well being A lot of experts in the field say you can't extract these principles from the texts and end up with the same thing. Doesn't mean bad, just something else.

I have to say I like your video but I desagree with it. While it might be true that Holiday does not live as a stoic (who really cares if he does) it is also true that his capacity to expose stoicism is outstanding. I loved his books since they compile practical examples of the stoics principles. Ego is the enemy set a before and after in my life. He is not an academic philosopher, he is a man very skillful to make money but in my opinion thanks to his great marketing talent many of us have known this beutiful philosophy. In regards to one of your point in the video, I think non of us can say we are stoics in all aspects of life. As you may know, that was one the highest frustrations Epictetus had to deal with. Cheers my friend. I have to get to know your work better.

This video is fire

Didn't tradition stoicism still teach the dichotomy of control? And didn't Marcus Aurelius say the obstacle is the way? I interpret "fate" as the result of things out of your control

Stoics weren't identical in their philosphy. I think this video misrepresents Stoic philosphy. It's more about understanding what is under your control and what isn't. Certainly it wasn't blind acceptemce, but focussing action on what you can do. So, ues, Ryan is different from classical Stoicism amd I feel he had made his own interpretation of it, for a modern world. That's probably why he's popular, cos some parts of Stoicism are esoteric and don't ring well in an era of modern science. I think most appreciate that Ryan doesn't present classical Stoicism, and that he's presenting his version of Stoicism, based on his logical analysis, and for me, that's fine. He also refers us to other Stoics so we can be broader in our understanding of Stoicism. Anyway, Ryan is pretty good, and leads people to greater understanding.

I'm not a Ryan Holiday fan, as making money off Stoicism is the least Stoic thing I can think of. I would argue though that you over-simplify existentialism. For Kierkegaard, it was the struggle against the angst and absurdity of existence which results in faith, and acceptance. In this way, I think Kierkegaard was more Stoic than Ryan Holiday. Dwelling on the themes of the Platonic "being and becoming" is fundamentally existential.

Before every Ryan Holiday video is a self promotion spiel about how many books he has wrote and corporations he has been invited to lecture. Way too much "Look at Me"

Should have included him throwing a fit about Trump while he preaches stoicism 😂

I think you’re missing the point here. Embracing reality is not inconsistent with trying as hard as you can to overcome a challenge, provided that you accept whatever happens after you make the attempt was never up to you - the only thing you can control is the decision to make the attempt. I don’t think Ryan Holiday has ever endorsed anything akin to the “you can do whatever you put your mind to” American dream idea. Quite the opposite. Your definition of amor fati is more determinism and nihilism than anything - fate is set so never try to effect change. I’m certain that’s not what the phrase was ever intended to mean. I think this analysis is less than thoughtful.

Finally someone said it!

Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator is his earlier work. Not sure at this point if he will jump to another philosophy hype...

His open letters to his father begging him not to vote for Donald Trump really soured me on that guy. I'm politically unattached (i.e. - All politicians are horrible people) and that really turned me off on a guy who portrays himself as having the wisdom and strength of stoicism.

Well, it suffices to say that Ryan Holiday is a professional marketer. He used to write bad marketing self-help books before he came up on the stoicism trend. Frankly, everything he does comes off as disingenuous simply because he's trying way too hard to sell you his product. He repackaged stoicism the way he did because he understands the market and knows there are dummies hungry for diluted 'wisdom'. Neither you, nor I are the 'target market'. I guess his approach to stoicism is something that works well for the general American public, but personally I can't stand looking at the guy.

The philosophy of stoicism vs existentialism.... Nicely noted :)

Aurelius is spinning in his grave.

I don't want to ascent to appearances, but Holiday does seem to dangle the carrot of wealth, power, and self-made, existential, American-dream-ism as motivation. Though it is actually the case that a stoic may harden one's self against aversion by accepting external hardship as a challenge, if the goal is seeking recognition, esteem, importance, reputation, or some rags-to-riches plot line than this person shouldn't really be called a Stoic. Epictetus: "When you have brought yourself to supply the necessities of your body at a small price, don't pique yourself upon it; nor, if you drink water, be saying upon every occasion, "I drink water." But first consider how much more sparing and patient of hardship the poor are than we. But if at any time you would inure yourself by exercise to labor, and bearing hard trials, do it for your own sake, and not for the world; don't grasp statues, but, when you are violently thirsty, take a little cold water in your mouth, and spurt it out and tell nobody (Enchiridion 47)."

Man has presented his case on the basis of evidence. Let's see if I will i agree with him or not after my personal research.

interesting

Yeah i think the trend of "modern stoicism" shares problems with modern cynicism. The ancients had a much different conception of the philosophies, but modern influencers warp and change the already diluted message.

Holliday is a one trick pony. He's basically said all that he's got to say and now just keeps repeating it ad nauseum.

Using his name to attempt to grow your audience and engagement is pretty shallow. I think real value would take you a lot further.

Hello Chad

All these negative comments! We live in a world where we’re still allowed to have opinions and say what we want regardless what other think! He gives you the information , his opinion, his analyst, it is for you to make the decision to be informed! But we especially in western society attack people because they think different. They have different opinions! I mean you take the good, take the bed and there you have it the facts of life!

Things get adapted to modern times, you just claimed he's not a "traditional stoic." So what? Do you live the way people lived 2k yrs ago? Nah, youre trying to get views by doing a 5 min reach to try and get views off his fame. But I can't control you, do what you want. Lol.

How about we have some new philosophical thoughts rooted in modern time instead?

I have read original stoic writing and Ryan holidays books. I can say you misrepresent stoicism in this video. Ryan holiday has talked about how some of the things he does goes against stoic philosophy.

Yes I agree with you but you need go deep, maybe a series of videos about this topic. People like Holiday are misleading philosophical concepts for people, especially what he use to consider himself, stoic.

I love your channel. But I thoroughly disagree with you on this. There are different tenets of stoicism. Holliday's interpretation is a positive aspect of stoicism in the same vein of Marcus Aurelius. True, he is existentialist to a degree. But the core interpretation of positive stoicism is to focus on the things within your control while accepting the things that aren't.

Absolutely unfair criticism. There are no gatekeepers to Stoicisms. Read and apply. There are no absolute rules but a framework of principles. Read and apply. Stoicism was very intouch with nature and each other. That doesn't mean I'm moving into a commune. In today's world that may mean to help others and give to charity. It is difficult to teach application and but easy to criticize.

Never heard of him...but I've heard his psychobabble. His babble is nothing new--at all.

Ryan Holiday's "Will to publish instagram quotes"

FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY!!!! Thank you for challenging this dude and his horseshit peddling. This guy will eventually be up there with Gary V and all those other self help bros who make a living by selling a whole lot of nothing to people willing to buy it lmfao

You have no idea what you are talking about. Study some more Philosophy. You don't understand it yet.

And why are you so mad? What's wrong with Ryan capitalizing on the topic that he enjoys and has spent half of his life trying to understand? What is wrong with Ryan trying to help others?

Yanni? Laurel? Feels like you're splitting hairs because you have a slightly different take on Stoicism

I find Ryan Holiday is good for people who haven't been exposed to any form of philosophy and would feel intimidated by reading the stoics directly. So as a general easy read primer he is okay, and his use of marketing allows a wider audience to be aquinted with the stoics. I do find that his take on the stoics is perhaps tilting more towards a western version of Buddhism or taoism, which is not really the case. The stoics may have accepted fate (amor fati), but they were by no means docile, infact their works continually extoll us to not shirk from difficulties nor retreat from the world to be hermits. Ryan Holiday also emits that the stoics were also devout people, and believed that god/s bestowed upon humanity reason to work with one another, and that it was our devine duty (thus in accordance with nature) to strive to be our moral best and to do well for ourselves, towards others and the world around us.

I think you're being overly semantic. Though you need hot takes to drive engagement and growth?

Good stuff. I can't stand pop-stoicism! You can "become what you want to be", in the sense of externals (office, health, wealth, etc) fate permitting per traditional Stoicism. BUT these are not "good", merely preferred indifferents. Fate may or may not have these things in mind for you, and not attaining them should not trouble you. It is wiser to focus on the true good, virtue, and become what you truly are by means of what is truly up to you.

no.

Why target someone doing good work? Instead why not use your talent and skills to build your own brand instead of using it to try and tear someone else down? There are real enemies out there to combat and Ryan Holiday ain’t one of them. Is he perfect? No, but he does work for the good side of humanity. Come on man, use your energy and smarts better. It’s one thing to disagree with someone but to put your energy and effort into something like this is beyond lame.

The dude refuses to bring up Christ that’s why I stopped listening to him. Paul washer, David Wilkerson, and Leonard Ravenhill.

Have you even read a stoic book? Becuse this information seems ^retarted^ Sorry

Stoicism is pretty gay tbh

A.) There is NO such thing as “Judeo-Christian.” It’s an oxymoron. B.) Ask John Calvin about “free will?”

What a shame. Another hater. Shame on you.

I'd suggest Holidays philosophy was more akin to an 80s self help author.

Oh no, honey. We don't accept our destiny so willingly. We know God gave us rational qualities to overcome fate and fortune. It looks like submission but it's not. In not following God and Nature you harm yourself. And what we accept is not in order to suffer or because there is no way out, but mostly because it is indifferent. The only evil is not living up to he highest good. And the highest good is something easy to get for all, slave and king alike. It's difficult to act out. Not acting it out is the only true evil.