If I was to hazard a guess as to where one of them would end up coming into frame again, it would be in The New World. Any theory of your own Suikey?

@@WyrmLimion it would be hard to tell since we have seen the effects of Tempered minions either under effects of mental and physical torpor (Ga Bu) or extreme EXTREME fanaticism after their god was destroyed (any other tempered minion really). we could end up with a "what more is there to do when Lord Zodiark is gone, but Eitherys is as the same as ever just like we had before" and we "untemper" them and they live as "modern" Ancients and live their lives as the post sundering Ancients. this is my extreme day dreaming of course. In a most practical theoretical view, they would simply follow Elidibus' footsteps and just offer themselves to the aetherial sea and be reborn again, now that their charge is gone and the new age of mankind is now in full force. then again, they might be related to the Island Sanctuary. Altima was a "crafter" convocation member, as she was an advocate of the arts. Halmarut is a plant and fungus specialist. Pashtarot is the "security" as he was the Preserver of discipline and order; while we have no idea on what Deudalphon's duty is, he seems to be on the "public affairs" side. They could have made a little space in the source where the pied their specific roles, to make a "little Amaurot" where our Azem could visit and help them.

@@youiri65 Thats a very good point and one I have been thinking about for awhile. With Zodiark gone and their people having passed on, maybe they would found a little Amaurot as you put it to continue the Ancients legacy so that they would be remembered. With regards to tempering im not sure any of the Overlords are tempered since they were sundered and their souls were reincarnated on the source and reflections. Aether instability would have been resolved at that point, which is something I never mentioned in the video but would have been one of the factors that changed Emet-Selch's demeanour when we saw him in Ultima Thule.

@@WyrmLimion oh come to think of it, you're right. the Unsundered were the only ones tempered. the overlords were just...indoctrinated? after being raised into position. I guess that's why Fandaniel seems to be "detached" on the original goal of Rejoining the remaining 13 shards, and more on annihilation of everything. or how Artemis and Gaia seemed to still have time to be in a relationship despite being Mitron and Loghrif.

@@youiri65 Memory is a key part of the identity along with the soul itself. It’s kind of why souls get cleansed in the Aetherial Sea to be reborn as new people. The crystals likely impart the memory of the old Convocation to keep members loyal. Sort of making their persona lean towards to their old self. Not always the same, but so long as they’re loyal to the cause, the Unsundered keep them under control. Fandaniel is the exception, but he did inherit the old memories despite keeping his persona.

Tataru Taru and her crime partner, Jar Jar Binks. The sources of dark and evil of the two worlds intertwined.

Random hot take opinion. Fandaniel could have killed all the other Ascians with the intent of fostering his 'End the World' plans.

@@errorabortretry3694 Maybe the unsundered were more powerful than rejoined Overlords? I remember Fandaniel being happy when he learned all of the unsundered had died

@@errorabortretry3694 I personally don't believe this. The inferment in the post-Endwalker release interview with Yoshi where he mentioned Venat's gamble which spared Emet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus from being sundered, was that the remaining Ascians ARE around, but whether they will continue the work of Rejoining or not, when Zodiark (and his fragments in the reflections) are gone, or if they will turn their focuses to their own united or personal goals, is something that sadly we will have to wait and see on, potentially never learning. I leave with three points from the Q&A following the 68th PLL in Feb 2022: "Q: Will we have a chance to learn the identities of the full Convocation of Fourteen members? A: So yes we have already decided the true names and identities of every Convocation member. Whether we will tell you or not however will depend on how the plot develops Sorry to tease you however." "Q: Are there Sundered Ascians other than Fandaniel or black masked Ascians of lower rank running around? I’d also like to know which Ascians those 2 red masks that Gaius carries around belong to? A: Wow that’s really meticulous of you, you all are really paying close attention to this game. That was really a good question. Yes I do think there are still some of the Sundered, black masks wearing Ascians running around. But those sundered Ascians however many of them there are, we can’t really say whether they are in the Source or in one of the Reflections. As for the masks that Gaius carries around, they belong to Altima and Deudalaphon. However just because he has the mask doesn’t necessarily mean that he vanquished them. So you have to come out with your own theories as to what is going on there. We have a lot in the story so far about what it takes to truly defeat an Ascian so maybe try to think back on those things when you’re making your own theories." "Q: Were Zodiark and Hydaelyn completely destroyed? Or there are still Sundered parts of them on other Reflections? A: To be really frank on this one and to give you a very straight answer here, Hydaelyn was completely destroyed. Similarly, Fandaniel crushed Zodiark’s heart which is his core and that completely destroys Zodiark. There were of course parts of Zodiark in the other Reflections when he was sealed and split across all of them but at the same time of his main body was destroyed, they all would have also faded into oblivion. "

@Fusajiro I don't think she can just because she was a member. Because her memory was very vague in general even as Logriff. And the only way Hades and Hythlodeus knew WoL was Azem because they have the rare talent of seeing the color of souls. Not anyone can do this. That's what made them legible as being Emet-Selch.

@@lunausagi8495 Yep, they were more powerful then the other Ancients in that aspect. Hythlo almost became Emet with just his sensitivity, before he recommend the current one. So I can't see any of the other being able to tell.

Yup! She decided to move on. Thats why she says to Metron its possible they will meet again once he is born again.

The endwalker was only the end of Hydelyn and Zodark story. They never say anything more leaving it open.

@@lindaking9064 without Zodiark any plans of rejoinings is moot: it leads nowhere. the source consumed some shards already, but it cannot succeed anymore and any hope of ressurrections of those lost at the final days of aumarot is gone.

We likely will meet an NPC who is an Ascian by name only. Far removed from their practices.

*Dawntrail intensifies*

Let us enjoy some chill adventuring again Square, please. Dawntrail: Say less, buddy.

To be fair I dont think they expected the Final Days to come back if they had reformed Zodiark. Sure it would be foolish and short sighted but I think that was the main point of Zodiark to begin with- live in blissful ignorance for as long as they can.

@@Hurley708 the final days wouldn't come back with a reformation of Zodiark, but would with his death - hence why us killing him let the final days happened

@@umbriumbrella3491 I feel like even if he was fully reformed Meteion would overpower him in the distant future when she has more dead worlds in her belt. That's if the people of Etheirys don't off themselves the same way the last species in the dead ends dungeon did.

@@Hurley708 wasnt that the whole reason why Venat sundered eitherys though? Even if they did end up making zodiarc whole again theyd still be defeated by Meteon in the end since most of them if not all just wants to go back to “paradise” “bliss” And I feel like if we never had met her when we went back in-time in Elpis shed be like everyone else. She had to sunder the world so that man could learn to live with suffering and pain but still find the world beautiful since its not all just that. She didn’t barred us from paradise but instead we had to work for it hence “man has to walk” Writing this it makes me remember that the whole xpac is just that, from the mantra of the Palaka people to the short scene in Garlemald with Julius accepting that the world is cruel but its still filled with beauty and its the little things that all makes it better.

@@unloyal4847 Also because the lesser aether density made the people less vulnerable to dynamis and able to utilize it themselves.

Thanks Ryan, hope this one was to your liking!

Honestly I think at least one of the remaining Ascians could end up being an ally in the future. Since we know so little about a pretty notable chunk of them, there is easily room to give some of them additional story to address that they were never truly onboard with Rejoinings and such, but had no chance to refuse.

@@FinnOtaku before Endwalker came out i was so sure one or two of the sundered Ascians would remain faithful to their plan and help us hunt down Fandaniel

Many people are expecting to see a younger Lahabrea at some point in Pandaemonium given his son is there and his connection to this place. I hope we get to see them again, even as antagonists but I personally hope for a storyline where we are on friendly terms.

I pay more attention to using the right music these days and I am glad this one turned out well. Cant go wrong with most of the music we have access to in FF.

I think he meant Venat as the last of the ancients, just like what Elidibus in his last words, left the mantle of the last of them to her.

@Nekromanta however, by this particular point in time, Venat is also dead. Emet-Selch can't be speaking of her, because she's currently in the same boat as him and Hythlodeus: dead.

​@Wait What Was I Saying? It was somewhat implied during the final ShB role quests that Unukalhai is either a reflection of Nyelbert or Taynor which would mean he isn't a reflection of us as Ardbert is our reflection in the first. Chances are unlikely that we've met our reflection in the 13th.

@@DeathIsLethal Patch 6.2 Spoilers! There may be a couple of potential suspects as of 6.2...Zero and/or Golbez come to mind.

​@@onioncultistlordoftheonion8315 Patch 6.2 spoilers for anyone else seeing this: True. Zero and Golbez do seem like potential candidates. Assuming an Azem shard counts as a particularly powerful soul then our reflection would have become a powerful voidsent like Golbez. On the other hand, Fandanial chose to use Zero as Zenos' avatar when he probably could have used a more powerful voidsent, but if Zero was an Azem shard then it'd add a touch more poetry to our battle against Zenos. If it's true, I wonder how our aether would "taste" to her.

Id say they will let us be us for awhile, have our adventures then when the time is right start sewing up those loose ends.

I’m not so certain. Pandæmonium seems to be focused specifically on Lahabrea seeing as it’s his responsibility, and that the other Convocation members are unaware of the situation. That’s why Themis is there at all and why Azem said to wait for someone to help with his investigation.

@@acgearsandarms1343 Azem knowing that we would be coming to help Themis makes me think Azem is us but in a distant future where we essentially retire into the past. Regardless of that theory, Pandaemonium will probably delve into why Elidibus chose to withdraw from Zodiark rather than enforce its power to overcome Hydaelyn. Something tells me he somewhat agrees with Venat's project in "let's see if they can do what we can't" to save Etheirys

@@Hurley708 That could be, but based on his fragmented memories, his primary motive seemed to be his people and friends, IMO. For the stable time loop to be stable, I think he needs to forget us, either after Pandæmonium or during the Final Days. He can’t tell anyone about us or know anything beyond us being Azem’s familiar. There’s a few ways to explore the memory gap, but there’s a few outcomes it can go.

@@acgearsandarms1343 Kairos is pretty powerful as it can manipulate even the minds of Ancients. The sundering should leave some notable trace of it left within the source and the shards but maybe it was also used in the process of Sundering itself and is the cause of everyone forgetting?

Well, we are fighting in his asylum right now, with the help of his son. So we may find out more about him. And from what we know about him, just from the first circle, I am kinda glad he went out like that. But who knows were that story is going?

thats whats asphodelos for

There are many questions about this scene. Current knowledge we have states Venat had a group that together they summoned Hydaelyn to oppose Zodiark. It has people speculating that they were the group sacrificed to summon Hydaelyn, or was she already Hydaelyn in Venats form. Your theory is interesting and could be interpreted that way but also as them being mediums for the shard worlds that would take form. We have seen there are many called the Warrior of Light and not all would have been Azems reincarnated soul so this is very possible.

Everyone on the planet got split except for the Unsundered and her. The number of people there isn't relevant. They've already established that anyone who can recovers sufficient amounts of their old memories gains a fraction of the Echo. There is no "dormant Warrior of Light". Just people gaining some of their power from the time they were not sundered.

@Wait What Was I Saying? Hydaelin summoning would't be possible with Venats aether alone

@Wait What Was I Saying? I don't think that the scene in 6.0 should be considered an actual recording of what happened at the sundering nor at the summoning of Hydaelyn, and more a narrative tool to show the point Venat fully committed to bring forth Hydaelyn.

@Wait What Was I Saying? The 6.0 scene seems like a telling of the story, rather than actual events. The scene has Venat walking through the city and seeing several events and she only reacts to them in emotion but not in action plus others don't even seem able to see her. In actual events, she would have never ignored an blasphemy appearing and killing an ascian, she would have at the very least attempted to save them. And Emet nor Hythlodaeus would have ignored Venat being there. And yet all that happened. Thus, it's not an accurate depiction of events, rather a dramatic retelling. This does not invalidate what we learned about Venat and her compatriots in 5.x stories.

I could also see possible amon also having a stronger personality than Hermes had. I mean, from what we get to see from Amon as Fandaniel, he is a very strongwilled, outgoing and opiniated personality who is rather set in on what he wants. Hermes on the other hand seemed much more meager, easily influenced and weak willed. He immediately breaks upon Meteion filing her report.

Maybe even some friendly interactions with them, its one thing I really hope for! Imagine arriving in the New World and one of them is running a business or decided to become a baker and settle down with a family.

Closure of what. This ff14. Meaning many things. 14 Ascian. 14 ff’s main games. But there are 15 and soon 16. Maybe 14 beginnings and ending. We are at 8 now. 6 more To go.

Knowing what we know now, I'm still surprised Lahabrea was done in so easily.

@@WyrmLimion I see him coming back, especially since we really didn’t get confirmation he has been completely vanquished, and us going to the void makes it extremely high he might pop out the ways again He and Emet Are to meaningfully to be discharged like that

That is a popular theory with many. Realising they could not return the world to the paradise it once way and they themselves being sundered, they elect to travel to one of the reflections to begin anew. An Amaurot in the modern era.

They mentioned agents of the ascians a few times also, likely minor ascians but none even get screen time. I like to this they are out there still.

she calls everyone her children though.

It was already explicitly explained on why she didn't 'return to the star' as it were. She mentioned something along the lines of for as long as mankind needed help, she couldn't leave them on their own. Which was why telling her at our final meeting with her "we will find our way, venat" has a more profound effect on her because it meant that we finally have the strength to move forward and she can finally pass on. Also, she referred to the sundered mankind as her 'children' considering she did kind of 'remade' the world into a sundered version of itself...so really, we're all her kids

That's an interesting theory. It would account for why we haven't seen any Ascians after his death and could serve as a reason why they allowed him to stay sealed in the moon, outside of them awaiting him to be fully formed before they did unseal him.

Technically only Emet as we l;earn he can look at color of the soul.

@@chungwong1010 That's my understanding too.

Techńically there is no proof that Zodiark and especially Hydaelyn ever tempered anyone. It's even especially mentioned by Yshtola that the primal summoning ritual taught by ascians was intentionally faulty to include the tempering effect. After all they were able to change it so the primals summoned to fuel the Ragnarok did not temper anyone. Thus there's no reason to believe the first primals Zodiark and Hydaelyn ever were capable of unintentionally tempering souls. I'd say, all of the ascians were untempered. Now sure there were wandering ancient souls on the moon who sure acted like they were tempered but more than likely they were just driven by their desire to save their world just like the ascians were.

My personal bet, is one of them is in The New World or one of the reflections building a version of the Civilization they lost but in the modern time. The thought of a modern day version of them is amazing :)

I think now the reincarnated sundered Ascians are now just people. They have the souls of those members sure but without the crystals they are just people like Gaia.

I agree 100%, they must have had far more minor ascians under their wings but we never see any otherside of these few mentions of them.

But they were particularly strong in that aspect of their powers compared to the other ancients though. They were going to Give Hythlo a seat just based on his sensitivity, before he recommend Emet, as he was just as sensitive, but also, much more powerful.

@@hesharu Hythlo exceeded Emet in Aetherical sensitivity, actually. Not that it makes much difference.

That's an interesting thought, please elaborate :)

You are the only one that can travel between rifts. The other 3 are dead. Their souls are in the crystal tower, gone or in the life stream. You are unsundered.

@@lindaking9064 No everybody on the source is sundered, we are 8 or maybe 9 fragments of the original being that was sundered into 14 fragments. The original fragment left on the source, plus other fragments, one for each shard returned to the source. Depending on if the fragment that was returned during the 7th calamity was merged into us or is waiting in the lifestream, its not said but I believe it was merged. Ardbert was the first's part of us, when we took his "Axe" he was returning to us, that is what that was about. That is why when Seto looked at us with his eyes shut at the end he could feel him. The three unsundered literally dodged Hydaelyn's final strike against Zodiark that sundered the world. Everybody else was sundered, or a soul on the moon trapped with Zodiark.

​@@WarGiver Not everybody on the source or shards are sundered, only people who have the echo/potential to awaken the echo are reincarnated ancient souls. Hence why the scions, despite seeing a star shower courtesy of Elidibus on the first, didn't gain the echo. Also we are confirmed seven times rejoined following the 7th calamity, it is explicitly stated by Emet-Selch. "Vaunted hero of the source, seven times rejoined." As for the travelling between shards, Ascians can travel the rift but they cannot take a body with them which is why Emet-Selch was so interested in the Exarch and how we travelled to the first with our body intact, as it was something they aren't capable of. So it isn't surprising that the other sundered Ascians would also travel the rift this way. Whilst we don't know exactly how sundered are raised to their seats besides that they use the convocation crystals, it is implied they 'shed their flesh', much like Meteion encouraged Hermes to do and why the unsundered do not have their original physical bodies. This is also why full mastery of the echo allows for immortality for the Ascians. It is heavily implied in his dialogue with us, but also Emet even mentions the colour of our soul before even meeting him in the cutscene where he sits atop the castle in Lakeland. He is fully aware of who we are but also rejects the notion that we are Azem, we are just a broken husk of his friend to him. G'raha Tia also covers the subject of us being similar to Azem when he states that souls must have a personality they are predisposed to, which is why Fandaniel as Amon is a nihilist and why we are prone to wanderlust.

@@jerina3105 Ignore the lore and explanation that everybody and everything was sundered, which Emet Selch specifically stated, in the quest cut scene you can view in the Unending Journey "Return to Eulmore". That is what you are saying right? As to your comment in "the Oracle of Light" cutscene, it did not refer to color "with a soul such as that" but more to personality "mayhap there is another way. One which does not require bloodshed." In "In good faith" he recognizes Y'shtola's soul's color. So he does still have that ability. In "The Burden of Knowledge" Emet Selch states "Until one calamitous day when the world was divided across ten and three reflections, sundering the land and all who dwelled upon it. ". He stated his goal was for his world his people "For our world, for our people, for all creation to be made whole again" This is repeated in the quest line, not a cutscene, Return to in Eulmore Player Choice: Three of you escaped the sundering. But what of those who didn't...? Emet-Selch: Why, their very beings were divided into fourteen, of course. Yet by our power, we unsundered Ascians may raise up one of their fragments to their original office. (this refers to the other Ascians, like Fandaniel who when he was elevated had at minimum three fragments. It was never stated/implied/denied their other parts were readded later. Just that they were sundered) Emet-selch refers to us as incomplete in _ and that IF we survive the remaining calamities we will BECOME complete In "Hope is a flower" Hythlodaeus says that the color of our soul is almost identical to Azem's. Its close enough that Emet-Selch refers to it as *their* splitting image. This confirms that WE ARE sundered, it is stated multiple times that there are only three who are unsundered Elidibus, Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. The only real question I have is does Emet-Selch have a blind spot now preventing him from making the connection, or does he know we were Azem, or did he somehow forget the color of Azem's soul? In "Echoes of a Fallen Star" people have the Echo awakened by seeing the star shower then hear Hydaelyn. In "Travelers at the Crossroads" Venat identifies that Our Character has her enchantment "Traveller's ward" (This is the protection from the Primals) as this blessing happens after awakening the Echo, it is separate, however as there are no events of someone waking the echo and not getting the blessing...) While I can not give quotes or places to look as I recall there were points where we are told that the Echo is but a part of what we lost, and that it is awakened by a star shower (which is a memory etched on our soul.) Given that the people of the first can awaken as well it shows that even these (as Emet-Selch calls them) "Half-men" (saying they are merely 1/14th of the whole) still retain the memory... the stain... We know that there was a Star Shower over Amaurot, we see it in game, it might be that the memory is related to the people that were there when it happened, or in other similar places. Regardless what the Echo is or what it isn't, my point entirely is that we are a sundered shard of Azem, one that past Emet identifies on sight (though deeming us a familiar, and trouble by default as we relate to Azem) As to the Ascians not having their bodies, I cannot account for the unsundered, but the sundered had their bodies destroyed long ago, we know that some were awoken early on, one such was responsible for the 13th. but their world and there by body was long since destroyed, and I agree with you as it was stated that the crystals that they made to revive the sundered members of the 14. Emet Selch did make the 14th crystal behind the other's back, as he likely planned to awaken us, though he did not tell the others as he hid the crystal. This was mentioned in the very cutscene you are referring to "Etched in the Stars" So to sum up, WE are Sundered, we are an incomplete image of Azem, and Emet-Selch should know this in the present like he does in the past. But at no point does he confront us. The closest is when we first merge with Ardbert he gets a brief glimpse of it, a moment of seeing Azem as we stand before him, before he brushes it off as "a trick of the light." He cannot for some reason add together WHO we are, but he should.

@@WarGiver I think emet-selch knows who we are. But given the actions of the final days, he has a petty reaction to Azem leaving the convocation when the world is at its end. He probably despises Azem and thinks Azem abandoned their chance at salvation which "goes against azem's charge" I think it can be inferences by his interest in us in shadowbringers. He sees this shard of azem trying their best to save the denizens of the world and is curious as to just how much are we actually Azem. I would infer than we are the shard of azem that have done the most out of all other shards out there, which is why emet-selch takes an interest to us in ShB. Also why he seems to want to help us at certain points. Also of note, Hythlodaeus can also the color of our soul, and in our first meeting with him in amaourot, he calls us his new old friend.

An Ascian twirling their mustache was certainly an interesting mental image for me lol I agree with you, I hope they return in some form, or at the least we meet some of their incarnations with no Ascian memories.

the rift is different from the life stream. Ascians can come and go from the rift at will it's their main source of travel

You can call all Ascian back. Because you are azem( unsundered)

In many ways it is. It was the conclusion of the storylines started by the current teams predecessors in 1.0. Now they can truly embrace their own creativity.

I love both of these ideas! Makes me wonder if the Heart survived the fall of the Praetorium. I hope we see more of Gaius in EW as he has many of the answers we need.

While Gaius DOES wield a gunblade, he wields a GARLEAN gunblade. The aetheric cartridges are specific to a gunbreaker's blade. Radovan mentions early in the job quests the differences, and that a garlean gunblade is little more than a sword with a gun on it, or vice-versa. The auracite thing might hold some possibilities, but consider for a moment that he's garlean, and therefore unable to actually make it. It's not impossible for him to have access to it, but slaying an ascian requires aether channeled into the auracite as well, something Gaius, as a Garlean is not capable of.

​@@JShort89 We have seen him fight. In both Praetorium and the burn, his move set exceeds that of a basic gun blade a regular soldier wields. So I am assuming that he does have access to the aether enhanced version. While pure blood Garleans cannot manipulate aether themselves, they do have allies and technologies that could. Gaius travels with 2 spell casters who handle the aetherial end of things. Though again, I am not saying that he did with any kind of certainty, just that the possibility exists.

My guess some of them have settled on the reflection worlds. We know many of them had their own little side projects going on, but another likely option is The New World. Maybe one of them focused on building a modern day version of their long lost civilization, comprised on average people from this era.

I can see it now. Halmarut with a huge garden on another reflection, indulging in his old passion for plants and fungus. Or Pashtarot being major of a small city.

I am sure this was stated explicitly quite a while back (maybe even as far back as Heavensward before the lore was fully explained?) that the sundered Ascians require one of the unsundered to bring them back (not from basic body death but from a reflection). I can't remember the exact wording.

@@chrisanderson7820 Ah, so maybe it isn't a theory, I'm just remembering. ;) Either way, I think it'd be bad for the story if they keep coming back, but I think they could do something interesting with the ones who haven't "died" again who now no longer have a purpose (assuming ES sort of released them from their duty at the end of EW). Meeting one that wanted to atone for all the absolutely horrible sh!t they've been doing for millennia could have some promise.

The memory crystals of the Convocation are no longer in their possession. I believe that’s how they raise members to office with the previous memories of old they had when Unsundered. Emet-Selch tells you himself if you talk to him in the Tower that the Ascians would die out if they could no longer raise members to office. The thing with Mitron and Gaia is an exception that can’t be replicated to restore memories.

Was thinking the same thing^^ There's still shards left, and who knows if they have an impending calamity that we will help stop or not. (I guess the Final Days are separate from a Calamity to make a rejoining so I have no idea what the difference is)

The Sundered Ascians are just so unpredictable. From what we know about them, they are reincarnated souls on either the source of their reflection, then they are gifted the memories of their first incarnation, but the essence and memory of the people they were still exists. Fandaniel/Amon is the perfect example of such, with Amon's personality and memory becoming the dominant. It could well be these Ascians were brought into the fold from the reflection worlds, and when all was said and done, they wished only to return there.

not to mention the white haired elf was also still there. Cy something

@@siyrean Yeah, iirc the 13th prior to being overrun by Darkness had multiple Warriors of Light but they were all distant from one another and couldn't/wouldn't work together.

Indeed! More than any other job storyline, theirs touches upon the Ascians and also their machinations of the past.

I agree with you. It would be nice to have a solid answer on their fate but I have the feeling they kept that answer blank for now for future use.

travanchet?

You are Azem the last unsundered ascan. You are alive.

Emet said you are the last of us.

Or he meant Venat and how she was the last of unsundered and also who set the events in motion that resulted in bringing him back for one last action.

@@Laerei But is Venat unsundered? According to the Watcher, Hydaelyn sundered Zodiark, herself and the star. Elidibus wasn't sundered along with Zodiark because by then he had withdrawn from Zodiark, but there is nothing that tells us Venat somehow did the same.

The story of Azem is one of the last untold tales of the first Final Days. All we know of him his what Emet and Venat mentioned. What we do know is Azem stood opposed to the Convocation when it came to Zodiarks summoning and vacated his seat in protest. Azem also refused to take part or support the summoning of Hydaelyn. Regarding memory restoration the Ascians don't have access to Azems memories cause he never had a crystal created like the other Convocation members. The one Emet-Selch created was based on his own memories of Azem so wouldn't have been suitable for recreating him. Even if they had the means of creating Azem anew, they would be recreating an entity that stood opposed to their goals and such an entity would have presented a danger to the Ascians.

That was my thought as well. Garlean gunblades are surprisingly versatile in terms of what they can fire. And Gaius is an intelligent and resourceful person so id put nothing past hi developing such on his own or taking what he needed. Maybe one day we will get the full story from him.

The voids a tricky subject but we know it does have form of some type due to our visit there in the Crystal Tower raid. You are not alone in thinking that about Pandaemonium, that was one of the primary theories before EW launched.

Even inspired a band :)

Ascians are a cult group with a set agenda. Did you mean the Ancients, which are the race from before the Sundering. Elidibus was an Ancient like all the others until his sacrifice and return, when he as you said before more of a Primal.

You are correct, the shards that remain are the Fourth, Eighth, Ninth and Eleventh. And I have a feeling we will be visiting one of those in the near future.

@@WyrmLimion with void taking center stage I would be against each shard taking an expansion to cover. Then again we have the nation's of hydaelyn to the south, west, east and north.

Reincarnation and Resurrection are topics I discussed recently. We still dont have a solid answer as to how it works. Death was not really a word thrown around by the Ancients, instead it was their souls and memory returning to the Aetherial Sea. The series has taught us and FFXIV to an extent that this sea is enriched by the souls and experiences of those who lived and that energy goes into the birth of new souls. What we do know is that souls reincarnate without their memory. The only reason the Ascians remained active is due to the convocation crystals which held each members experiences and memories. We are a prime example, we embody a significant portion of the soul that was Azem. But we are not Azem. His/Her memories drift in the Aetherial Sea. Regarding the reincarnation of Unsundered, it might now only apply to those 3 that died. Theory is with the sundering, that the Aetherial Sea was also sundered and is shared across the reflections. We know for a fact its expansive as we could access it in Ultima Thule. They would be the only Unsundered ancient souls left in existance. And if they were reborn, they would be children, unless they are reborn on a reflection where time works differently.

You (WOL) the only one unsundered.

@@lindaking9064 No, we're sundered. We had to be in order to combat the pure dynamis. That was Hydaelyn's goal (a balancing act). On one hand we had to be sundered to be able to interact with the dynamis. On the other, we had to be strong enough through the aether to get to that point to fight her. The true WOL (us) doesn't really fulfill a role until just before the 7th Umbral Calamity. I'd like to know more about why we (as unsundered Azem) did not join any of the factions (Zodiark or Hydaelyn). It seems as unsundered Azem we had a percipience of the future. This is highlighted further if you did the intro to Pandemonium. When Minfilia served as the Word, she says "Seven times I have failed." (referring to the calamities). But, in truth they had to happen or the WOL would not have been strong enough to defeat the Ascians or Zodiark (having gotten a sliver of soul back with each rejoining...and then a bonus from Ardbert).

I really hate that line as it makes Emet seem so heartless, even to his fellow ascians.

@@katiepersons6575 well Emet does view any soul that is not whole as "not alive". It makes sense that the sundered Convocation aren't any different. The people he chooses and raises to their seats are given memories of their former lives as Emet remembered them. They aren't even truly reincarnations.

different shard

Ivalice's Altima is a different entity, though the Ascians in FFXIV are an homage to the scions of light from FFXII.

That's an interesting idea, and would be a simple way of resolving the storylines. I personally hope not, cause I wanna see at least one of them in future.

It is also possible to kill an Ascian by forcing them to move from body to body. This apparently is why Lahabrea is much weaker than he should be. If its toll is that great on an unsundered Ascian then it likely be more so on an Overlord. As for the black masked ascians. Elidibus had them all launch suicide attacks when he awakened the people of the first with the power of the Echo to hear Hydaelyn. Thancred and Urainger actually wonder how many of thier "heroics" in the past have actually been Elidibus pulling this trick in the source to create "Heroes"

Yeah we could meet one of our shards again from one of the surviving worlds

The remaining shards are as followed since Endwalker: The First, the Fourth, the Eighth, the Ninth, the Eleventh, and the Void(13). We have those worlds left to explore. And mind you they could be potentially dangerous due to the fact we have no allies in the unknown shards. We had an established foothold in the First thanks to G’raha.

Also, I’m not a fan of the idea of rejoining with our other soul shards because that would mean their deaths and depriving those worlds of their heroes. Also consider that makes our Dynamis interactions weaker the denser our souls become. We’re good as we are.

@@acgearsandarms1343 unless we learn how to equally balance aether and dynamis, maybe there will come a time when neither force is strong enough alone and the only way to win is to find a balance

@@bahumut01 By “balance” I need more clarification. Dynamis is stated to be much weaker than aether by normal standards. So if while it’s within our power to use, we can’t actively control it like we do aether. I don’t know how we can actively use it where as we can easily use it passively.

I have that thought sometimes. The do tend to emulate them in various aspects.

I honestly wouldn't put it past him, but I dont see Gaius accepting help so he would have done it behind the scenes. It was never explained how he managed to kill them.

Did this happen to the tempered members of the Ixal, Sylph's etc.? Even if the Primal no longer has corporeal form, their influence doesn't just "leave" those who have already been tempered. You missed the whole reason why in ARR and XIV, before finding the cure for tempering, that the tempered must be killed. Their continued existence and giving of praise to a primal would eventually see to it being re-summoned.

@@megidolaon384 but those primals were not really "killed" zodark was.

Thats what i'm thinking on these 8 man raid series atm. But things could swing later on the next 2 tiers

I’m still hesitant to say for sure because he’s so bad at magics other than binding magic. By his own admission. Lahabrea on the other hand is a master at creation magic and elemental spells. They wouldn’t put him in the seat if he lacks the requirements. But we will see.

@Fusajiro Louisoix created/became Phoenix - thats in the Binding Coils story

No Emet mean you wol you are Azem the last unsundered ascan. Only you are left.

@@lindaking9064 Except Azem got sundered.

And Venat. You are not sundered either. You left before Venat sundered the Ascian.

You would not accept any sacrifices to create or restore a primal. So you left to explore and become the warrior of light. There are many warriors of light. Not just one. You are now Azem. At one point Ardbert could have been azem.

Yeah was only after I heard it in the cutscene that I realised lol

There was also the thing of Nabriales, one of the overlords, simply was not supposed to be on the source. This leads me to believe that the other overlords are basically still dealing with stuff on their respective shards to work them towards a rejoining event.

I have to wonder what being tempered by Zodiark even means when Zodiark is basically just Elidibus. The primal is nothing but a hollow shell without its heart piloting it if Endwalker is any indication. And Venat appears to be fully intact when controlling Hydaelyn so it doesn't appear as though becoming the heart of a primal changes the individual at heart.

@@katiepersons6575 Its possible that in the case of Zodiark being tempered by him was more of a willing thing, compared to the tribes where it was a forced action performed by the primal thanks to the "add people to faith" clause put into the spell by the ascians. Which given the Ancient people really could not stand suffering when it came knocking on their door them turning to an all powerful creation makes perfect sense. Willfully blinding themselves to the suffering in an effort to get back their "perfect" "utopia" of a world. Which would drive many of them quite mad.

@@katiepersons6575 Actually, we can't be sure they were tempered. As explained when Scions summoned the primals to fuel the Ragnarok, the summoning taught to beast tribes was based on the spells used to summon Zodiark and Hydelyn but purposefully modified so that the primals who are summoned temper the subjects. Hence from that alone you can surmise that neither Zodiark nor Hydelyn temper souls. Hence, Ascians are not tempered by Zodiark, like Scions are not tempered by Hydaelyn.