can’t forget Holland

Personally I don't like Friends at all, never can understand why other Beach Boys fans like it. But yeah, Wild Honey, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland are all good stuff! So Tough is enjoyable too, just not as good as those other 5 to me, but still much better than Friends.

@@TonyM132 Friends is 100% my favorite besides Pet Sounds and the Smile sessions, it’s just so damn cute and charming, makes me feel all warm inside. Go back and re-listen to Busy Doin’ Nothin’ or Wake The World I don’t see how any BB fan could dislike those tracks.

@@nolanbennett5167 I am definitely a big Beach Boys fan, but I must have been born without some gene you other fans have that can make you like Friends. It sounds quite different from the rest of their catalog, and in a decidedly bad way to my ears. Just for you (and because I'm tired of hearing similar things from other fans), I just listened to Friends again, first time in several years I guess. If I have to, I can best tolerate the title track and Be Here in the Mornin'. The two tracks you mentioned probably come next if I were to rank them. But I'd still much rather listen to literally 20+ other Beach Boys albums. Hey, at least you get to be in the majority! Not to pour fuel on the fire, but the other album I like far less than most fans is Surfer Girl, though I still like it better than Friends. On the flip side, two albums I tend to like substantially more than the overall fanbase are The Beach Boys 1985 and 20/20. In testing the theory that they might oppose Friends, how much would you say you like those two compared to the average fan?

@@TonyM132 Everyone’s different and can like different aspects and qualities of The Beach Boys so I totally respect your opinion on Friends, I just love that album and never thought of it as one people might not jive with so much. As for the albums you mentioned I absolutely adore 20/20, I Went To Sleep and Time To Get Along are some of Brian’s finest of all time, however 1985 has never inspired that same Beach Boys magic feeling for me for some reason, maybe one day I’ll get it. What are your thoughts on Love You?

Repeating my earlier comment (above): Anyone curious about how Vail became such a positive influence on the band (and their concert producer), read p. 291 of James Murphy's excellent new book, "Becoming the Beach Boys, 1961-1963." They couldn't have found a better and nicer man than Fred Vail.

Thx Bill - I'll try and follow that up. Loving the Fred Vail's passion here. I am now becoming a major league fan of the BBs and have just purchased two books one by Mike Love and one by Brian Wilson. Some interesting reading ahead! I don't know their early - mid 70s music at all so I really appreciate all the recommendations from other posters. I did like that tune Sumahama from, I think, 1981. It got played a bit on Australian radio in an era when local acts dominated as they were so good. The big later breakthrough hit here was of course Kokomo. For big BB fans they play here in Hobart Tasmania next WED 8 FEB as part of the Surf n Soul tour along with the Temptations. Amazingly, as Hobart is a small town/city of only 150 000 people. Apparently the BBs played here in the Town Hall in about 1964 - their last visit I'm told!

I love this guy!

I agree, I also thing that if Smile had been released, they would probably been "hip" for a longer time, I still can't understand why Mike Love and the others were so opposed to the album, I mean they were and are smart people, you would think they could see the writing on the wall with the Beatles music.

2000Betelgeuse You know, they put out Smiley Smile... Smiley Smile!! They weren't opposed to the Smile album, they would have loved to have put it out. Capitol sure wanted to put it out. Brian did not want to finish it.

Vincecouk with the exception of dennis and carl, the band hated smile. brian himself said that the reason that he didn't finish smile was because mik elove hated it. there's actual video of brian saying that in the "beautiful dreamer" documentary. when brian put out his own version of smile in 2004, mike love sued him for it. mike love is a bag of dicks, basically.

***** Yeah I saw the doc and I know Brian had some feedback about it from Mike. Based on interviews and what I've read from the others inc Al and Bruce, all the others liked it. Mike has even since said he liked the musical aspects of it, just not the words. And the label just wanted it out and had ads printed and covers months before. My point was, and it's just my opinion is that Brian shelved it because he didn't want to finish it, not because a person(s) told him not to. From everything I've read, for every one criticism Brian had on the project, he had a whole gang of friends around him, including his brothers that were supportive.

don't rely on what the beach boys say now. they've long realized that they are on the wrong side of history when it comes to smile. the truth is that dennis was brian's only true supporter in the beach boys when they were making smile. carl was a mediator between the two groups and bruce and mike hated it. don't underestimate how much power mike held in the group in those days either. he was like a mccartney to them - and to brian. again, brian said that he didn't do the project because mike didn't like it. just like brian hardly produced or wrote anything for anyone after smile, because mike and bruce were anxious that he was "giving away the good stuff" and "keeping the avant-garde shit for us". it's easy for those guys to say that they've always loved it now, the war's over. brian took the hit, and they came out fine.

Vail is a little long-winded here but you can surely tell his adoration for the group - he's nearly in tears at the end. What a heartbreak it must have been for him to come back home & have to break the news to the group, who had so much faith in him. Also would have been a bit of a shock to the guys at their new label.

..and hipsters are A-holes (no offense)

very true...

its one of my favourites !!

cool cool water?

How about Dennis' wonderful rocker which starts the LP off - "Slip On Through" ? How about Brian's unsung gem, "This Whole World" ? For me, the only three lesser songs on the entire album are "It's About Time," "Tears in the Morning" and "At My Window." THIS IS the group's most "together" album EVER. One guy called it the GROUP'S "Pet Sounds" because of the overall stellar quality of writing, singing, producing, and Stephen Desper's cutting-edge recording techniques (that's an entire "science" in itself -- look for info on that elsewhere on the internet if you are a recording geekster.)

Maybe they'll play God Only Knows.

I completely agree

forerunner of chillwave music

It would be a hit on a college radio station today

way ahead of its time

All I wanna do had to be the first single of "Sunflower" followed by "Our Sweet Love" And Then "Forever" :)

Sunflower was ALL.about Dennis, without him the lp is weak.

@adams85 No one else in the Beach Boys can project their personality the way Dennis does in Got To Know The Woman and later solo tracks like Under The Moonlight and Time For Bed. It could have worked out so differently for him.

@@kookadams85 Any lp with Cool Cool Water, All I Wanna Do , and Our Sweet Love cannot be described as weak as far as I am concerned; I like the Dennis tracks too but c'mon he could not possibly have written the bridge to "Forever" or arranged the vocals. Had to be Brian, it modulates to C# , one of his fave keys. Not to your taste maybe, but brilliant in 2022 . When I play Sunflower for people in all walks of life these days, 52 years later, jaws still hit the floor. Again YMMV just my opinion.

@@Chromexus it's a great album but Bruce's songs & @ my window should've been breakaway,cottonfields & susiecincinnati .

@@kookadams85 no question the addition of those songs, particularly Breakaway and the elimination of bruce's songs would have made it even stronger. I used to use the fast forward a lot for Bruce's songs.

Sunflower is probably The Beach Boys; 2nd best overall album. If Jay Cook had taken the time to listen to it, he would have heard much music which would have fit onto WFIL's playlist.

I totally agree. I was in middle school at the time and tried to tell my classmates how great they still were but to no avail. Gladly they started their comeback with the Surfs Up album massive touring helped a lot. 🌞

damn straight. Every major rock band from The Who to the Flaming Lips list the beach boys as one of their top favorites and influences well into the the 70's. In fact, there early 70's albums were in some ways better than the 60's stuff and they remained one of the best live bands through the 90's. Only those who really know music know the beach boys were always hip.

I say, you like what you regardless of what anyone has to say about being hip or not!!!! I am a huge 4 Seasons and Beach Boys fan and have always had to deal with people telling me or making wisecracks, when are you going to listen to something of substance or with real meaning. Who the F are these people or anyone to tell anybody what they should be listening to let alone what has substance or meaning.

Haha the beach boys were hip? Only a beach boys fan could think that. Being 'cool' was never a beach boys thing. The 90s beach boys was *not* 'good music'..

@@matteframe Do decidedly unhip subjects interest you? Hip is relative man, but the Beach Boys are EPIC. If you don't get it, I feel sorry for you.

Be True To Your School is a great song. I much prefer the version on Little Deuce Coupe over the later stupid versions with the cheerleaders mixed in.

that's cool..but what do you mean odd though?

Odd as in John Coleman's teaching that the Beatles were a government operation perhaps... I just don't believe in the received text of supposed rock history. The CIA promoted modern art, it's just been admitted. I think Dave McGowan's work on Laurel Canyon seems very plausible. I also was in Hollywood in 1966... just think we were all duped to one degree or another. The LSD that was pushed, the media, etc.

I really couldn't tell you, Marko... Capitol was owned by the Brits, EMI. And I certainly don't trust them!! I just think the fact that the Beatles absolutely took over America literally 77 days after our president was killed is not normal. I think it was a government op of some sort, mind control.

What if it had been 78 days?

All done without Brian who was upstairs in his bedroom shouting down his orders. Drugs had taken over by then sadly.

Michael Boyce they took over much before that :(

Brian couldn't have been upstairs in his bedroom. It was recorded in Holland

Top 20 in the u.k ,don't know how it done in USA

WOW - a real piece of history !! What does the note say?

BTW, anyone curious about how Vail became such a positive influence on the band (and their concert producer), read p. 291 of James Murphy's excellent new book, "Becoming the Beach Boys, 1961-1963." They couldn't have found a better and nicer man than Fred Vail.

Fred Vail here...would love to hear the story how you came about the album and who I had written the message to? Just saw some of these posts for the first time. My Jay Cook meeting still is very emotional to see...and it's been 48 years, believe it or not. There is another version of this same clip but it's been edited too much. This one is 'the real deal.' But, as I said, us BB/BW die-hards always get the last laugh. You can leave a message for me on my Facebook page. Thanks, Fred

Yes, we long-term US fans owe them a LOT.

And the irony is? Alot of British musicians from the 1960s to the 1980s were inspired by the Beach Boys.

@@neonfroot I definitely see the influence on someone like Alan Parsons incorporating vocal harmonies and song delegation to appropriate vocalists in his progressive music

Paulina Angel same

Top 3? Can’t agree. Smile, Pet Sounds, Surf’s Up, Today, Summer Days, at least. Holland. And that’s assuming you dislike the surfing hits.

Agreed. It's Mike's best album.

​@@philliesfan1971 Mike? 😂

Have you heard the 1972 Live at Carnegie Hall section of the Sail On Sailor super deluxe set? It’s fricking awesome. Even preserves a classic Mike Love meltdown rant. But the Boys were absolutely incredible there

Their manager sang it! Can't imagine Peter Grant or Allen Klein doing that.

RE: "BS at the distribution level" - read Tommy James' book, "Me, the Mob, and the Music" sometime to get a clearer picture!

Boy bamds arent all bad within themselves. Especially since they evolved from doo wop. Punk imo is highly overrated and garbage.

ZyxthePest Sir, I disagree completely ! The songs Warners SHOULD have promo'd, were " Slip On Through", " Got To Know The Woman", & " Forever". THOSE 3 were by Dennis, & they were fantastic then--& still are, today. Wolfsky9, 68 y/o

ZyxthePest That's just it, their optimism doesn't matter. Brian had what he wanted to be a single and what he wanted as a B-side. If they don't want to promote it, fine, but it's going to be on Brian's terms. I've always respected him and the group for that. People can say, "Oh they should have promoted x and y instead." No, they shouldn't have. They should have promoted what they wanted to promote, which they did. What happened to them? They're making critically acclaimed albums and selling out shows worldwide. Who cares if people cringe? Sometimes music is meant to do that.

ZyxthePest

ZyxthePest "Forever" or "This Whole World" should had been the first single. Warner dropped the ball here.

If the latter had a SLIGHTLY extended mix, I'd agree. But it's pretty darn short for a single. Forever is another great choice.

Pat M: Typical radio station logic: "We won't play it 'cause there aren't any HITS...and WE aren't willing to take a chance on helping any of those songs BECOME hits." Nationally, AM radio had fallen under the spell of a few powerful programmer "camps" - Bill Drake headed up one. FM "underground" programming began in the Bay area as a protest to this massive control, but after a few years FM-ers as a whole became almost as bad. That period had great music but much of it was left to be "discovered" by college kids on their own. Rolling Stone magazine attempted to dictate to them what was "hip" and what wasn't. Most diehard Beach Boys fans soldiered on without needing to be "told" what to listen to.

Yes, that sounds about right. The thing is there weren't ANY topflight vocal bands that began in 1971 were there? [OK, Wiings but they were 4 years off their peak and were struggling to get UK Uni gigs at his point.] It had gone right out of style, being replaced by hard rock, both the blues-based stuff and then the UK glam of Bowie, etc. Then the flower children had gone introspective with the likes of James Taylor, Neil Young, Cat Stevens and America, who along with Carole King & Carly Simon were breakthrough artists on 1971-72. Groups who had their vocal sound as their main thing ala BB and say Mamas & Papas had gone right out of vogue. By 74-75 bands like Wings in the UK and the Eagles in the US brought the 3/4 part vocals back again. Thing is those bands could also 'play' right from the get-go. In AUST we had our version called the Little River Band whose musicianship and songwriting talents were enough to get them some good gigs and a bit of chart success in the US. IN the UK the Hollies perservered and they too managed to keep going. The exception to the vocal group rule is probably CSN&Y, though they had the electric gtr jam thing happening too just to broaden the scope of their appeal, particularly live. The recently released 1974 tour CD and DVD shows where they were at. I think the BBs music may have seemed a little 'light on' in terms of lyric content compared to his more political and personally charged music from writers like Crosby, Stills, Young and the more introspective acoustic acts. In the early 70s everyone was still processing the failure of the hippies left-wing social movement (much like now perhaps) and were beginning the process of discovering and embracing the growing need for environmentalistic causes. It became a time of energy crises and semi-regular airline terrorism as I recall, when the word hijacking entered the popular vocabulary.

For real

coolbean I KNOW!! I've seen him wear it in many interviews about the Beach Boys.

Have you always been an anti-semite?

No not anti anything. Just hates blacks,jews,ricans foreigners etc. But never misses church services. But leaves b4 they pass the collection plate. Sheeeesh.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

It's a very important story, all of it.

Maybe you can't stay on top forever, but the radio programmers were trying to force them completely out, as evidenced by the Vail clip. They made a very successful comeback and it wasn't entirely on the strength of the old 60's hits. A lot of that was Jim Guercio and Carl Wilson.

All I Wanna Do also features Mike on lv, but would have been a far better choice as a single. I could see it being a hit - in the UK, at least.

@@paulcasey6759 Much better song, and I truly love it, but not sure it would have been any better of a "fit" for any Top 40 chart in 1970. Either "Slip On Through" or "This Whole World" would have fared better, IMHO. Dennis' gem "Forever" could also have charted well as a slow song.

It's About Time, Slip on Through and All I Wanna Do all deserved the promo. Add Some Music is a great song, but the lyrics are literally whenthecringeistoostrong.gif: The Song.

I agree with you. Those were the three strongest songs and should have been used for radio promotion. Kind of goes back to the fact that the company didn't know how to market The Beach Boys, and quite frankly The Boys didn't know how to market themselves. There was no agreement among the band as to who the Beach Boys were post Good Vibrations, until at some point they evolved into the ultimate nostalgia band.

The smashing (and surprising) success of the retro-looking album called "Endless Summer" (basically ANOTHER "greatest hits" package)was THE turning point. The Beach Boys had changed labels and had essentially told Crapitol to "stick it." Crapitol responded with one last blast of tracks in their vault ("Endless Summer") which surprised EVERYONE with its sales success -- except maybe Mikey. That's why the direction turned to nostalgia.

You have a point, but I'd argue Brian's mental health had more to do with their direction than simply pointing to Endless Summer. You have to remember that Capitol released Best of the Beach Boys just three months after the release of Pet Sounds, which was a blow to their changing direction, and a blow to Brian personally. But it didn't derail their new artistic bent. They released Good Vibrations and then launched into the Smile project. After Smile was shelved and Brian began to rescind, the Boys lost their leader and resident genius. Nobody was able to fill that role. They definitely worked hard and were attracting large audiences on tour prior to Endless Summer, which helped them bridge to their nostalgic phase. Embracing their earlier catalog has kept the Beach Boys in the public consciousness and has been financially lucrative. Most of the songs on Endless Summer had been included previously on the three Best of packages released by Capitol between 66 - 68. The timing of Endless Summer, their popular live tour, the vibrant cover with contemporary caricatures, the radio airplay, the title of the album, and the quality of the songs made Endless Summer a smash. Love it or hate it, Endless Summer is probably the best thing that could have happened to the band at that point in their career.

IN 1975 when I was 11, my older sister received this double LP from some American friends of my mother's. I can say without reservation, it was one of the best things that ever happened to m! I listened to it over and over and just loved songs like In My Room, Wendy, Be True to Your School and Warmth of the Sun that I had never heard up until that point. As GREAT now as they were then.

not completely true

jennyandrichiezbras YEs, not completely true but in most ways true. But never all.

Brian stopped producing and they STILL came up with four terrific albums: Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & Passions, and Holland.