Vaush needs to have more leftist channels like this on. It will help those channels grow as well and further extend the left’s outreach. One of the reasons that the right grew it’s presence on KZfaq as much as it did, was all of them appearing on each other’s channels and gaming the algorithm. It’s time we use a similar strategy of cross pollination and increase leftist unity.

Remember, Pete Buttigieg's middle name is Paul, making him PPButt.

Nobody: Trans girls except Blaire White: *☭*

As someone who is generally wary of anarchism, and who isn’t quite sure what they believe, this conversation was fascinating to listen to.

Zoe Baker is a criminally underrated breadtuber.

Anarchist viewer here I absolutely loved this convo and learned so much. U should def have her on again.

Damn she's really smart

Vaush please have her on again shes one of the most intelligent online leftists and deserves a lot more attention! She has a wealth of political and historical knowledge to draw on!

We need strategy. We need strategy. We need strategy.

"I'm also a PC gamer the most oppressed class" funniest shit I've heard all week.

Zoe is based af. I hope you have her the stream more, Vaush.

Zoe about the discussion: "My review of the discussion with Vaush: I think I did a good job explaining the anarchist critique of state socialism but could have done much better at explaining the anarchist alternative of winning reforms via direct action. Was difficult to remember everything whilst extremely anxious. There were a number of things Vaush said that I massively disagreed with but given the time constraints I was trying to pick my battles and only focus on certain points. I plan to make a video responding to some of his arguments in more detail."

Destiny was destroyed in this debate

as a Twoman with a very deep voice, hearing her speak has made me feel so much better about my voice and I love her already Edit: By which I mean she reminded me that I can have a deep voice and still sound feminine. Something my dysphoria tells me the opposite of every day

I think I finally get what she is saying. She saying that if you want a classless and stateless society, you can't rely on electoral politics because what you want puts the people you elect out of business. A stateless classless society HAS to be built on the back of direct action, because in the end that is how it will be run. You can't build a stateless society if your society requires a state in order to function.

pls have her on more often!

Hope everyone found the conversation thought provoking, even if you disagree with my arguments. If you want to learn more about anarchism subscribe to my youtube channel and read my article Means and Ends: The Anarchist Critique of Seizing State Power. Its available on the anarchist library.

i wish all lefties want to discuss their disagreement in good faith like this, i feel like left unity will be so much easier to reach. i could see the thoughts behind the "direct action" side more clearly after this thought provoking talk.

vaush more collabs pls we know u don’t like them but left unity is bueno

I have to admit, she raised points that I never thought about. I feel like this discussion really helped me further my understanding on what can be done to push for leftist policy

anarchopac is the og, beadtube before breadtube

Steven "Destiny" Bonnell II did not participate in this debate.

Protesting and Unions went by the way side as soon as States implemented Right to Work. Companies literally have training videos on why not to join unions, why you don’t really need to join one, and ultimately... we can just fire you regardless. Oh and don’t let me forget the good ol “Let us know if someone tries to get you to join a Union.” Once people had to choose between what they deserved and being able to live period, they chose living. Get rid of Right to Work and you’d see a whole lot change within the workplace

hey vaush, would you mind linking her channel in the description or in a pinned comment?

I have wanted to have this conversation with vaush for like a year at this point but im glad someone more qualified got to do it lol. I love Zoe and have been watching her for years, super excited that she will be introduced to this huge community. I know all of the anarchist vaush fans have been wanting her on for a while.

Really good convo here both sides having good arguments with proper reasoning behind them. Loved it would like to have the two talk again. Tho a critique on vaush: I think that he was acting in a very i don't know how to describe it...direct(?) Manner which lead to Zoe becoming quite nervous from what it looks and I hope that if they speak again vaush is gonna hold back a little so that she is gonna be less nervous. Now it could obviously also be since she usually makes scripted videos with a smaller audience and if that's the case I deeply apologise for my critique

Vaush, I would reccomend you read some of Malatesta's work. A lot of short, succint, easily read anarchist theory

I feel like Zoe checks Vaush's takes in a really healthy way, I want to hear from her more

Please have her on more if she’s down!

She's spittin facts

I was an avid viewer of anarchopac when I was in high school. I was there when she debated Molymeme. Totally nervous when I heard Vaush and her would be debating, but I knew that it would be good considering I always found anarchopac one of the most intelligent youtubers I'd come across.

Subscribed to Zoe right after this convo. Her content is amazing.

This is like really nice to listen to.

Zoe Based Baker

She's awesome she should be a recurring guest on stream

From my personal experience Vaush is totally correct here. A few years ago I was leaning towards anti-woke content, and although I kind of supported the Democrats implicitly I thought both parties were roughly the same in terms of what they were fighting for, which I supported. Hearing Bernie, AOC, Yang, and others talk about these issues and different (admittedly moderate) policy proposals got me consuming more left-wing content, and like 6 years later here I am listening to an anarchist and a socialist discuss radicalization strategies.

Please have her on more.

Such a great conversation, more Zoey

I think conversations like this have difficulty resolving when one of the participants is American and the other isn't. Zoe is clearly based and pog af, but she doesn't quite seem to grasp just how right wing the US really is. We are unironically closer to being an Ancap or fascist dystopia than we are to being even a basically functional European-style social democracy, and I don't think a political movement can effectively compete against American corporate and political power unless it infiltrates the existing political apparatus.

Anarchopac may have been the first leftist KZfaqr I got into, years back. Amazing to see this collab! Hope you have her on again Vaush.

She is so big brain v cool

fun fact: jaguars are the most sadistic of the feline family, preferring to make their kill last longer by targeting the skull and cracking it open like Oberyn Martell.

'I am an expert in dead white men with beards ... and what they thought about various things.' LMAO, I love that!

The chat was absolutely annoying in this. They kept talking about her voice. You do realize she could have Dysphoria about her voice right chat?

This conversation was great. For what its worth, I became an anarchocommunist through Bernie Sanders. I liked Noam Chomsky before, but Bernie gave me hope and got me to start organizing. I think there is value in it.

It took me rewatching this entire video to finally understand what Vaush and Zoe are advocating for, at least I have a general understanding of what it is they advocate for. They both essentially have the similar end goals, however the main issue is how to get there. Vaush is essentially advocating for stage setting for the far future decentralized proletariat uprising in the US. Stage setting as in getting more people on board with leftist ideas, widening the political discourse leftward because the US has only been involved in centrist to right wing political discourse, and creating much more favorable conditions to begin the proleteriat uprising. Zoe is essentially advocating for more direct action and decentralized planning and advocacy to move people leftward so that a sort of chain reaction of decentralized uprisings creates a massive movement for socialism/communism. I think that's the gist of what they're both advocating for. Vaush in this conversation is basically telling Zoe what the situation is here in the US. The US is heavily right wing, electoralism via Bernie opened up a large discussion on leftward topics, and that the US as it is now will not be able to develop the proletariat uprising. Hence, Vaush advocates for stage setting as a prerequisite. A best way to visualize it is that Vaush is on the prerequisite stage of a 10 step plan, Zoe wants us to move to stages 1 or 2. I agree with both of them by the way. I think Vaush is accurate in his assessment on the conditions of the US, how any decentralized advocacy will be unfortunately out done by Bernie types who bring those ideas to the big stage, how if an uprising were to occur now fascism will most definitely take place, and how electoralism is essential to spreading leftist ideas into the current political discourse especially with a country as vast as the US in sheer land mass. However, in the long run I do agree with Zoe. I have no doubt that electoralism will disappoint us even with Bernie types and how trade unions will ultimately squash any militancy and lead the proletariat to complacency and bargaining for their place on the table. I also don't doubt the knowledge she has of history on this topic. Frankly, at least when it comes to the US, Vaush's strategy is fine for the beginning part. I do think Zoe might be underestimating the vastness of the US, either that or she didn't give us her plan on how she would deal with the US and with how big it is.

Very interesting conversation. Since I'm a boring social democrat, I agree mostly with Vaush, but the guest makes an interesting point about the deradicalizing influence of parliamentary institutions.

I remember chat being so mixed about her while she was on. Some acknowledged she was super smart, and others thought she was a tankie

I really like this woman. I’ve been feeling bad that my only outlets of leftist thought were Vaush, Hasan Piker and the general BreadTube community. I haven’t really dabbled too hard in anarchist thought. Thank you for this video

Based Anarcho-Syndycalist in the miniature 😎 Visca la revolució!

VAUSH PUT THE ARTICLE LINK SHE MENTIONED IN THE DESCRIPTION PLS

Gosh I love Anarchopac so much

I love how everyone got really distracted when she said "praxis" cus we all know that word but don't actually know what it means.

its very refreshing to see someone who i agree with more than vaush on the channel. anarchopac is wildly based, easily one of the most knowledgeable anarchists in the breadtube sphere.

Seriously amazing conversation and taught me a ton.

Electoralism is presently necessary because we have to deal with climate change, and there is no realistic time frame in which an anarchist bloc can be developed in time to achieve that through revolution. They can and probably must be done concurrently through direct action alongside elections, but for the time being climate change has to be addressed immediately. There is potential to use a GND to facilitate the regrowth of organized labor, but the big focus needs to be on restoring public education for any kind of meaningful direct democracy to even have the capacity of developing

Last! If you post a comment after this you're lying!

Virgin Nationalist Spain VS Chad Confederación Nacional del Trabajo & Federación Anarquista Ibérica

Woah, this was like a whole ass college lecture on anarchism. I love it. Does she have like a youtube or is planning to make one?

Not all Unions are created equal: that is true. Creating a Union is a major task and although it's absolutely worth it, corporations will manipulate every single word in a CBA to their advantage. This was awesome btw....

The union heads of the last union I was in would laugh and joke around with my bosses about anyone that came to them with a complaint, some unions in their current state are fucking horrid.

God, I am in love with the comment section All the Queens, Kings, and Royalties that are using the right pronouns you got my heart uwu

As an American, I would like to know how far Americans can be pushed into further poverty before we all come together and put our foot down. We’ve already been screwed out of stimulus money, healthcare, and other things that are considered essential as human rights in other countries, yet we continually roll over and take it. Not saying voting isn’t important, because I do believe it’s very important, just wondering where that final push will need to come from for us to demand radical change.

Barely started this but her voice is so nice to listen to

As someone who doesn't fully "get" or "understand" anarchism, I found this quite fascinating. I'm relatively new to socialism tho!

I have been watching her videos for years now, its really great to see you two have a discussion!

This channel is such a joy. I went from being a huge Yang loving liberal to recognizing the faults in capitalist ideals, and now to considering the best ways to persue anarchism. And I've only been around since the election coverage! I know this will get buried but I just wanted to put out my appreciation for Vaush after listening to this delightful discussion.

She is very poggerpilled but she's a bri'ish person, they like cold beans on soggy bread

Already watched this on her channel but I'll give you the click for the algorithm. These are important discussions to have.

This was great! Bring her on again!

Have her on more!! She’s amazing

I'm going to give the dumbest review of the smartest conversation: That was the good good

It's really shitty of Vaush to not link his guests in the description

I didn’t understand a single point made during this, but Zoey sounded smart so anarchism good?

The comment at the end about climate refugees leading to eco-fascism is something that I don't hear talked about a lot. Another important factor will be Artificial General Intelligence. I'd love to hear how socialist strategy can account for and potentially even integrate these forces into a plan for the future.

Everyone should go watch Zoe’s videos! They’re great if you want to learn more about anarchist theory. She know so much about anarchism and communism.

Vaush's realism here really depresses me and should scare people. We legit live in a shithole dystopia if a dude is really going "idk if we can have a general strike, lest our gov't kills us".

Ahhh, one view. Three comments. And I see none of them, right on time

Zoe mate, you have a subscriber and an avid fan from now on, keep up the good work. Also Vaush, more content like this please.

Since the start i have watched AnarchoPac and Libertarian Socialist Rants. Its amazing how everything seems to be coming together :) I hope you have Garrett and Cammehyabams and possibly other OG anarchist youtubers on someday, Would be great if we could start consolidating the left into one proper content creation alliance. If we can get everyone working together more effectively, that would be Amazin!

This was such a great segment. I really hope to see more of this kind of stuff in the future! Oh, im obviously checking out zoe's content

I liked this person, her heart is clearly in the right place, she's willing to put the time to research her positions (well, studying political history tends to do that) and she was generally kind and respectful. However, this is one of the easiest illustrations of the phenomenon of someone in a specific field viewing everything through the lens of their field and being largely incapable of examining it through any other lens. A very significant part of her answers to Vaush's points begun with "Well, historically..." - because, duh, this her primary field of expertise, political history, and she clearly has a very keen interest in anarchist / socialist / left-wing revolutionary history. But here's the thing, history is great to study because it gives us the ability to see indications and patterns that can help us make predictions and assessments about the future, but you can't just retroactively use "well, historically..." as an answer to everything. Specially in this case. Direct action is a great point of principle and you'll struggle to find a leftist who doesn't support it. But we cannot delude ourselves, direct action "historically" has been quashed, revolutions have been fought for no reason, strikes have yielded nothing. Direct action on its own does very little, never mind the fact that most of the western world does not currently have the material conditions necessary for large-scale direct action to be a thing at all, never mind meaningfully affect things. So you can't just keep looking back on history in order to get a prescription on what to do next in order to advance the leftist agenda. Books don't have those kinds of answers, if they did we wouldn't have to arguments on Venezuela perpetually with liberals. We must look outside of books and forge a new path, one that's less focused on what people 100 and 200 years ago said or did, because ultimately they failed, liberal capitalism won and we have to make changes within that system, in a realistic manner.

Commenting for the algorithm. Hope to see more convos like this on Vaush's channel, easily the best I've seen to date.

Praxis makes perfect

This has to be one of my favour guests you've ever thought on. Please bring her on again in the future

You can tell this is a good conversation by how much listening is going on compared to other debates he had.

One significant problem with unionizing is the problem of low wages. I worked as a package handler for a while and everyone voted no to unionize because they simply could not afford to deplete their wages any further after the cost of health insurance was taken out

reading the chat makes me sad. They're all complaining about how Zoe's losing them and how "dry" it is, and Vaush needs to bring an idiot on to crush with his debate skills. These are the kinds of people that are the lib version of Shapiro watchers.

Brilliant Video

This was really good More of this please

You should def get her on more often, she is amazing!

This was awesome. I keep coming back around to the idea of the means becoming the ends. It's like the political equivalent of "you are what you eat." My heart believes in the argument laid out by Zoe, but my head agrees with Vaush. Will have to look further into anarchic strategy, because I think I'm just unable to plausibly figure out how that would work, but am absolutely open to it

Appreciate the smart, chilled talk not always right wing loons

This person knows her shit.

This was beautiful to listen to. Thank you, Vaush and Pac.

I honestly wanna see more stuff like this from Vaush.

Based and anarchopilled

I recommend Babylon Berlin to everyone here. It's a drama set in 1920s and 30s radical and extreme Berlin. Think it's available on Netflix, HBO, and others depending on region. The show is German language mainly, as well as Russian, and a little French - I just turn on the subs.

Coming back to this video, after seeing unions bloom in the US, after NO worker reforms were passed, makes Zoe's point even more correct than ever

great conversation! i would love for her to come on more often, anarchist dialogue is really interesting