5v5 killed OW. it had a chance to be revived and they decided to monetize OW2 with a 5v5 ponzi scheme

To be fair, the game is not dead... it maybe bad for many people, but the player base is huuuge

It also didn’t slowly become a money grab, they did it instantly with ow2 release

it went from my favourite game to my biggest gaming dissapointment

@@K.a.t.-it1ps From what I have seen over the years it's probably a cesspool like League of Legends. On top of it supporting modern Blizzard in any way is dumb. There are tons of great games out there. Why kill your braincells and feed greedy company.

agree, i loved the game at launch. Sadly each new character made it less enjoyable for me.

Holy shit Mark, crazy seeing you here! Not only do I love your work, but it's also incredible that we share that same gaming experience of that first era of Overwatch.. I'll always remember those memories from the months and first year playing Overwatch, as a freshman in high school (and I'm about to graduate college this spring)... it just made it all the more sad to see the falloff.

I recommend trying out more games

it really was....

I strongly disagree. I was left disappointed when i tried the game. Glad it's dead now tbh.

That happened in Hearthstone too. Activision is soulless.

I don't remember that happening in the OWL.The Free Hong Kong guy was an Hearthstone player.

That was the beginning of the end. Everything started unraveling after that shitshow.

not blizz's fault for their bad opinions

That was the precursor to what was to come with that lawsuit

shit was dead before it even started they where no where near League numbers or dota 2 numbers lol....

@@HazardReapercool nerd

​@@HazardReaperbruh were u there in 2016? overwatch was everywhere

​​@@pluff624It was everywhere, but it cannot do it like League, Dota 2, and CS. Those three just refuse to die despite their handicaps

I got skeptical back then when they said that OW were gonna follow the franchising model same to NBA or NFL and thought it's going to fail because I always thought they were overhyping it and expecting big, indeed it failed, notdirectly because of high expectations, because they clearly can deliver if they're just patient enough and consistent enough, but because of greed and mismanagement, Then, few years later, games like LoL, Valorant, and even globally lesser known game called Mobile Legends started adapting the model and create a successful leagues, so OWL still had a legacy and influence across esports

it made sense to go free to play, but it should have happened way sooner, and they should have given the og players who paid full price something else, like lots of credits and unique skins. overwatch2 was a mistake altogether

One thing I distinctly remember from the original release was that they promised all functional content would be free forever. They kind of needed to. It was just another shooter but with a handful of characters, less than a dozen maps, etc. A question people familiar with shooters had was, "Why would I spend money on this tiny game with no content and lootboxes when I could just go back to tf2 / play dirty bomb for free / play gunz 2 for free / play paladins for free / get battleborn instead since it's from developers with a long track record of making shooters / [this list gets much larger if you include games that were playable AFTER overwatch]" and actiblizz's answer was "well you'll get all future functional content free." But that kind of prevents them from charging an astronomical amount of money for a single pve map, doesn't it! So as a loophole to their promise/selling point, they *technically* just terminated the game and launched a different one which made no such promises instead. But you don't need to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots and realize they were just trying to go back on their promise/selling point.

Yeah, I wish I could still play the game that I paid 40 dollars for. Live Service video games are fraud.

​@@mariapaz6379They should have allowed people to still play Overwatch 1

Agreed, they were blowing way too much money on these grand events but it didn't make anywhere close to recouping the cost. They hoped they hype train was enough to attract advertisers, but that's a coked up pipedream with a big dose of greed. If they had just let the esports scene develop naturally based on sustainable income, they would still have made a huge amount of money. But the decline in good management manifests itself in many ways, and this is just one of them. Taking huge risks on longshots is the "in" thing for techbros nowadays.

Pretty much. Having been around watching the starcraft pro scene, I knew overwatch was going to fall on its face

​@kitolz Based on what was going on in Blizzard, it was probably a mix of coke and neurosyphilis.

just follow the CS method... simple qualifiers in local regions... pretty simple.

I hate this because Call of Duty followed up with CDL (which is essentially this) and it sucks. Hell, ANZ doesnt have any players in the league, and EU doesnt have any city and barely some players

you mean casters?

They weren’t just good announcers. They were passionate.

@@millionelectricvolts6117 yah. Words are hard

Montecristo and DoA were/are some of the best caster duos in the industry.

That aged well a week after new ow esports announcement they laid off the casters from old owl

When they realized that their big easy money would stop, so their super-easy comfortable life course they cried. lol

@@artmanrom you think they just cast? sad and ignorant

Well i bet lots of Blizzard employees felt a bit better when OW failed, knowing how they were shafted again and again and again.

Wow, so heartbreaking these people couldn't make celebrity livings playing an uninteresting videogame. Maybe dedicating your life to a shooting game wasn't the best idea to begin with? It's just not interesting to watch.

@@michaelrapaport4494 the game was actually good, but after goats devs just didn't/couldn't balance it properly to make it more interesting to watch and play. Also, I was mainly talking about workers. Dedicate life to a shooting game? It's a product, working on a product to make a profit is not dedicating the life to it, but expectations were built and experiences lived.

Damn who shit in your cereal this morning @@michaelrapaport4494

Damn, I wish you luck when you experience real struggles.....

also the people that bought the first game, cant play it anymore and i paid for the game, horrible company

Warcraft and Starcraft fans are suffering with you... fuck modern Blizzard

Yeah. I actually have a physical copy of OW (2016), but I don’t see the point in owning it anymore since Blizzard put it down like an animal.

Shame, I never get a chance to play it have not blizzard put it down

Welcome to Activision. They destroy everything they touch, and they know their rabid fanbase will never learn

you forget the shop update

@@billcipher1756 leave it to Activision/Blizzard to make loot boxes a BETTER option

This makes me so sad. I think esports in general are so fascinating and exciting and it was incredible to see a company actually give a shit and make the effort to support a proper league for it. Id do just about anything to be apart of that industry but it seems like the only game where its really thriving is CS.

That would actually be awesome

That would be awesome. How that would not be struck down by Blizzard idk but then again tf2classic exists so maybe they can do it.

You know what happened in 2018? Brigitte happened, that's about when everyone stopped playing

​@@zingy1811 fucking goats comp... such cancer in ladder.

Ong I remember I didn't even care for the game but I was rooting for that success 😮‍💨 maybe in another timeline

Yeah, I thought the same thing. You reckon the movie writers had this in mind?

@@stickiedmin6508 The writers thought of shitty (tech) megacorpos in general

Right? I kept hearing people refer to it as being like an esports version of The NFL - just imagine what would happen if The NFL announced one day that football was being discontinued in favour of Football2? The sheer arrogance of the executives and the managers, to imagine that they could dictate huge, sweeping, unpopular changes to the game and the league, and that the fans, the players, and everyone else involved would just shut up, do what they were told, keep on playing and keep on generating money? It's utterly absurd. How could any of them have deluded themselves into thinking that it was a good idea? With *_any_* other sport, the backlash, the anger and the eventual failure would be forgone conclusions. Just try and imagine: "New Golf(™️)" "Baseball II(™️)" "Football Turbo(™️)" The fans would riot the moment it was announced. Total insanity.

Nah it was more like cutting out one striker from a football (soccer) team

Paints a wrong picture, it isn't a dumb decision, skillcap is higher now, new projectile changes are making the game fresh again.

@@Scorpio789123 You mean how you guys are tossing around boulders?🤣 The projectiles are huge now, the skill floor went up, skill ceiling went down. Sad but true, I stuck around for a while hoping for better changes, but heroes being behind a paywall is unacceptable. I’ll wait for 6v6, if they don’t bring it back i’ll gladly leave this game buried. The mindless newcomers can have some fun with it, i’ll play some Spelunky with my buds B)

@@Scorpio789123 na i have played it and it feels so much worse than before, its actually boring not even frustrating but straight up boring to play

Problem is that blizzard is so bad at balance. Its quite impressive

​@@alltidtratt3564they weren't in the past...

Asking much of the company that through over-focusing on esports killed SC2 and nearly the whole RTS genre

There are Custom games for wall ride and parkour stuff. Aside from that, yeah, we already had Apex Tournaments which would have been BIG if Blizzard didnt kill it

wouldn't really have changed anything, the infrastructure was a great idea and it's honestly absolutely necessary for the next level whether or not the esport scene grew naturally, it doesn't change all the shit decisions blizzard has done, they would've done them with or without the esport scene

Thats what I was thinking, glad someone said it. Kind of like how soccer leagues do it. There's the local leagues/schedule/championship, then international/worldwide ones. Probably would've allowed them to slowly build over time.

NFL does it just for a couple games a year. NHL and NBA, MLB all of canadian teams that played in regular season. In the NFL if your team gets assigned to play a game in Europe the next week you are on an bye week.

Exactly why the direction corrupt institutions like UEFA and FIFA want to take football in is a disaster waiting to happen

plus they place a freakton of emphasis on the Cisco connection thing like that's how you know Riot is backing up their ambition with actual big moves for the better.

@@tcbobb1613NHL plays in europe and australia now

Same thing with smash ultimate. Had potential

​@@YunaCrawfordsmash ultimate is still an extremely fun game even without DLC one of my friends has well over 700 hours put into the game its a blast to play against him.

@@youtubestuff683 oh I meant tournament scene as a whole.

@@YunaCrawford ah

Yeah, the game is one of the more notorious examples of having an e-sports scene forced upon it and not letting one evolve naturally.

@@planescaped Making a game around esports isn't really a problem IMHO. BUT they need to also balance the game around esports and listen to feedback to make changes constantly. Its a problem a ton of esports games have. The problem with not creating it around esports is look at the The Finals. The Devs even came out and said they weren't trying to make it an esport right away it was meant for fun. The game is fun and they are making amazing changes to fix issues. Problem is without the esports scene to boost player counts and viewers it is now slowly dying out. Its barely even relevant at the moment on twitch.

Yeah from the admittedly limited knowledge I have it seems that they tried to make it more and more competitive throughout the game's lifespan and in doing so made it boring and bland

THIS

In the last few seasons I’d poke my head into whatever owl was up to and just see teams full of people I didn’t even recognize so I didn’t care about the matches.

Utter nonsense. Competitive games were thriving long before streamers were even a thing. Just look at Counter-Strike, WoW Arena, DOTA, and countless others.

but these guys have been in for the fun and the audience, not for the money and the competition the hardcore e-sport players are usually no memesters with the time to hang out online with their fanbase

​@@jaybeam1466sure, but the issue is how the genesis of the OWL happened

Same. I only played here and there as my dad got it for my younger brother. It does leave a sad feeling.

It was never meant to be. ESports should have been organically grown, rather than try to go big too quickly through OWL.

@@triadwarfare Agreed OW was great but OWL was dead on arrival imho. You just can't force an Esport like that. Blizzard should have known that, since the success from Starcraft was more of an "happy accident" than everything.

pls dont play the feeling of greatness that slowly gets abandoned is real blizzard dont care to OW other than money its NEVER been their golden child its WOW and they couldnt care everything else

​@3takoyakis Overwatch and Diablo make way more money every year than WoW did at its peak. The cash grab worked my dude. OWL might be dead, but Overwatch the game is everything but. And the player base keeps growing. What's probably going to happen is that the vocal OW1 fan base is probably slowly going to die out, and the new player base that never even knew how it used to be will start to rise up. And my guess is, this is what blizzard is slowly waiting for before announcing a new league with a probably better approach. But time will tell.

At what point does a company become a corporation, definition-wise?

@@eeyorehaferbock7870 Usually when they get funding from people who earn a living from other people's work.

@@RicardoSantos-oz3ujexactly what i was saying. Venture capital is a boon that inevitably becomes a cancer

@@eeyorehaferbock7870 They become a corporation when they register as one. Lol.

@@treehann what even is venture capital? Seriously, the term “venture capitalist” has been funny to me because it sounds like “adventure capitalist”, which was the term that the villain from Atlantis: The Lost Empire used to refer to himself as a nicer-sounding alternative to “mercenary”. Probably because I originally saw it being used to refer to people like Jeffery Sachs who are outright scumbags on the level of that character.

True

I was shown to overwatch by my cousin, even tho I didn’t have a computer at the time it looked cool

Yeah, as much as it's blizzards fault for the game going in a wrong direction, covid absolutely did kill all momentum OWL had left.

American loud crowds is sleeping for the rest of the world. I literally would donate money for Americans to get to experience a real crowd cause I feel so bad for yall.

​@@zo7034 yeah but then you gotta smell europoors and see their teeth

lol over watch just wasn't good. cuz Dota and league did okay during covid snd survived

@@christophermauro-barias7451 Dota and LoL werent at the time going all in on a league model that fundamentally does not work during a lockdown...

NFL works like this. Most of the teams consist of players who are from very different regions and all went to school in different places. Still one of the most popular things on American TV. So the format could have worked but I think Overwatch by itself was to ambitious. If they made the teams like Miami Esports etc etc then maybe it could have worked. Like Miami Esports and they have a team for CS, LOL, and Overwatch. Maybe that could have worked cause a person could then cheer for the team repping their city much like NFL across multiple platforms. Idk maybe not who knows.

@@mattyeye8176 true, I understand for a sports team, but for games though it feels so weird, it's almost seems fake like why would you even bother to cheer or root for them if their name has nothing to do with your region?

@@Arcademan09 I definitely see your point. Like in CS cheering for C9 when they picked up a mostly EU roster felt weird compared when they had an all NA roster. So I can relate but if its city related they are still representing your city. Remember though its not so much people who already watch esports they were trying to get into watching it was people who arent into it. They wanted to make it easy for people to get behind a team.

Every single team sport in the entire world is like that. It's not an esport issue, that's just the way sports are.

@@TomCruz54321 cool except this isn't a real sport so what's the point? *Again* as soon as I realized that none of the players are actually from the region I immediately stopped caring, what the hell is the point of me cheering a team from California if none of the players are from my home state? Actual sports are one thing but this seemed like a really dumb idea for videogames. I understand but at the same time I don't understand, it's weird

It hurts just to read. I haven't watched since 2019, but it still hurts.

It definitely could have been how large it was touted to be

You mean, how different would Blizzard be* not Activision.

@@ofsoundmind28 I was wondering if there was any difference

Overwatch 2 would never've been a thing, the license was never meant to have a sequel

I don't think Bobby was inherently the problem, I do think he is a problem, but there are other managers involved who made horrible decisions.

5v5 killed the greatest game ever

@@mortystraphouse5077 if you really thing 5v5 killed it then you paid no attention to list of things before it.

@@chpgmr1372 5v5 for me killed the game aswell, its just boring right now and way more fast paced. Tryed on OW2 release for a couple of weeks and quit once and forall.

@@mortystraphouse5077I didn’t know bobby kotick’s name was 5v5

downhill started Ana's release, right then and there you could tell how unqualified the team was at balancing with beyblade+ambulance (quad tank+reaper+ana) meta just because they thought it was a great idea to add hero that heals 14x more than the 2nd highest healer and 4x times more the utility, baffling brain rot

Thats because so many people (me included) saw the store at launch and that it was just overwatch 1 but with more microtransactions, were like "F that, gonna wait a bit" then they were like "oh yea we lied there is going to be no story mode" so a lot more people were like "Yep f Blizzard" its why they wanted to release it onto Steam as well because so many people have quit playing the game. I will never touch Overwatch ever again. Loved the lore and characters, just can't support the company only Blizzard games I play anymore is the Starcraft games, and Diablo 3. Unfortunately their greed has ruined them beyond recovery.

if you checking twitter, you would see tons of paid-content creator defending it. When steam got hit so bad, tons of them defending it. Turns out blizz make a gathering of content creator before steam release to smooth up steam release which they already know would be disastrous

It is such a disappointment, I wish I could get back into the game, but they ruined all the fun heroes, they ruined mccrees abilities, symmetras original abilites, just why.... STOP CHANGING OLD HEROES AND MAKE A COUNTER FOR THEM INSTEAD

blizzard went from the greatest to the worst and most evil gaming company of all time, from top quality games, made with passion and love, that changed gaming forever to a library of predatory gatcha games.

If you want an unfiltered look at the entirety of OWL, watch The Four Horsemen podcast episode on it. It's told by the 3 hosts: MonteCristo -- DoA's (one of the interviewees in this video) long-time casting partner in League of Legends and one of the initial architects of OWL, Richard Lewis -- the best esports journalist who broke multiple scandals about corporate corruption and malpractice including a couple involved with Blizzard/OWL, Thorin -- some old guy who's been with esports forever, and Harsha -- former OWL coach. They paint a far less rosy picture of OWL from conception to demise.

You know the 1st and 2nd point kinda apply to LoL too

It was also very hard to punish a good tracer as well. She just had too much mobility and a get out of trouble card to punish her. Mobility in online games is always very strong but particularly in tracer's case given she had s between her time jumps and rewind. Overwatch has a series of bad design decisions. Genji restoring dash on kill made nano-blade extremely OP in most metas, widowmaker receiving an increasing headshot multiplier as her shot charged made here powerful when she's hitting her shots and removes a lot of counterplayer the other team might otherwise had. That's before considering any of the insanely overpowered new heroes they released starting from brig onwards. Each one of those heroes broke the game to where they balanced literally the entire game around those new heroes instead of balancing the hero to fit into the game.

Pros like everything homogenized, reliable, and consistent. Casual players tend better towards uniqueness, and the wild moments that come from swingy mechanics and gameplay. This was not going to hold.

koreans are S tier humans, they will always be the best gamers

I follow e sports, but mostly fighting games and a bit of StarCraft. I liked OW as a game to play but i think Blizzard understimated how hard is to keep a fanbase. I'll ellaborate. Look, one game i don't watch anymore Is melee, why? Is stale as hell, the scene and players are there but although There's a shake up every 4 or 5 years the truth Is that the game at competitive level Is just a bunch of foxes against other foxes, and sure those guys are amazing players but in basketball if EVERYONE starts to hop 3 point baskets then for sure is a great skill but becomes boring for the fans. At this point you must understand that the changes in a competitive game are NOT for balancing purposes but to make the game More enjoyable for the viewers. Those guys Making 3 pointers over and over will need to practice More for next season when the NBA decides to further the 3 point line 1 meter more later. Now, how this relates to the fans and players? There's a delicate balance here, exciting matches are of course great for the viewers, they will watch every game expecting the unexpected but comes with the price of screwing the players who learn the meta for a long time and base training and strategies on It just to learn new stuff later that wasn't there last week. Blizzard ultimately decided that It was too much of a headache to balance all this and let the game roam with the same stuff (that were viable but stale strategies) and the audience suddenly was watching Tracer handing everyone's ass every game.

"Corporate greed" was not the failure point lol. It was a series of bad business decisions and poor leadership that eventually led to a failed project. We can see that this is the case because significantly more money would've been made had the league actually established itself like it was trying to. After all, blizzard is not a charity and businesses exist to make money. I find it funny that when businesses fail at something, it's attributed to the same cliché "corporate greed" that's also blamed for their success. It would seem that the people are the problem here.

@@deuscoromat742 cope harder these decisions were made with the intention of milking more money

blizzard has ALWAYS done this btw, starcraft, WoW pvp, hearthstone, all had organic organized play scenes, only to be shut down and superseded by the inferior big budget blizzard ones. I blame Bobby, if not personally, than through culture he set.

@@deuscoromat742 It also didn't help that Blizzard was being very slow in addressing balance issues. I.E. it took Blizzard forever to finally nerf the GOATS meta and that did massive damage to the E-Sports scene.

Because they wanted to dethrone LOL the biggest esport game

I really hope MS leadership can make OW fun again but my faith in the devs, current leadership other than bobby etc. are at an all time low. I think it may be a lost cause :(

i really hope that this will change things, i doubt we will see changes any time soon, it will probably take some months if not a year, but i really hope something will change and overwatch and all the other blizzard games will shine again

The enshittification is permanent and baked in, I fear

I didn't hate watching goats, for me the expectations that they could sequel jump after two years is insane. Dota 2 may have evolved, but it's still the same title decade later. They should have followed that model, just gradually incrementing.

imo the biggest issue with GOATs was how long it lasted. i enjoyed playing it, i enjoyed watching it. but it became too repetitious

​@@sldarwin5615 But if you watch a balanced team play a balanced team, it's way funner for everyone. It did ruin it. Watching an NBA team of centers just dunk would kill basketball as well.

(Not that watching a bunch of shaq's dunking on each other repeatedly wouldn't be fun to watch)

it woulda been fine if goats only lasted 1-2 months but the fact they ddint adress the main problem brig for that long is what started killing the game an insanely broken hero

This game just sucks

As someone who loved the game when it was in beta, it has fallen a long way down and its reputation is well deserved

​@@fernandocardenas740 tell me you are bad at the game without telling me you are bad at the game

@@vendettyrontell me you’re delusional without telling me you’re delusional

@@trini1711 xd

What's so bad about 5v5?

@@ahhmm5381 Well, fewer players just means less variation in matches, less shenanigans. At least to me that's how I felt. Plus buffing the tank to become a pseudo dps wrecked the whole role-playing dynamic of the game. It was more of a player personality problem than anything, in my opinion. But the devs only probably thought of catering to the minority elite players in stead of realizing that the more people they could convince to play flex, the balance of game queue would just follow from there. I mean their software can track every small stat of every hero. Why not use that to motivate players with disproportionate category picks so that they would eventually enjoy playing flex maybe through some kind of reward system? Dang it I've been rambling. lol

I thought 5v5 was an improvement honestly

Been playing OW since it released. I don't blame you for leaving at 5v5, Tank synergies were one of my favorite parts of the game. Some of my favorite memories are playing Zarya with my Rein main friend, and just going nuts on King's Row attack (Even though I'm a Mercy main). I played my first OW match in 5 months yesterday. The pay to win really felt brutal, not having the two newest healers and the new tank was a little frustrating. While me and my two buddies still had fun, we probably would have had more fun with a different game, we just liked hanging out.

@@ahhmm5381 A lot is bad about 5v5. First is that anyone who liked playing off-tank couldn't anymore. They completed shafted every off-tank player. In addition they had to re-balance the entire game and maps around 5v5, which wasted a ton of time and completely changed the feel of the game. People played overwatch because it's overwatch, 5v5 just feels like another TDM shooter. 5v5 in addition to the other changes just make OW into another generic shooter.

I would recommend checking out The Finals. It reminds me a lot of how fun Overwatch was.

@@sugarfree_ too bad they don't want to pay voice actors and use AI

A toast, to a lost cause...

2016-2018 peak Overwatch

@@yummyapplestroodle Voice actors suck. You just gave The Finals a selling point to me

And rich people who owns it doesn't care I hate them so much

​@@lordmordekaiser3366they don't even seem to care about money they're making. It was stupid

In esports yes... In Gaming, probably. In history? No... You havent heard about the "great leap forward" I guess...

Star Wars.

@@Joyexer he definitely think nothing happened in Tiananmen Square 1989

Before the excessive brainrot

​@@AB-bx5tohuh did you not actually watch him back then he's pretty much always been the same he just wears expensive clothes and jewelry now

​@@AB-bx5to He was originally known as "that Overwatch player that got banned for prolific slur usage." Dude has been brain rotted since day 1. How he became so popular is something I will never understand.

@@AB-bx5to he was worst back then lmfao, he actually grew up alot

@haruhirogrimgar6047 prolific slur usage is nuts bro. Nothing he said was all that bad, people were heavily on his side for how the League dealt with him

Oh my god! Thanks for reminding me of that one. Just rewatched it and I can completely connect with the feelings I had when I saw it live. Fuck the first 2 seasons of OWL were soooo hype! So many streamers turned pro you could root for and everything

Was he a goblin back then too?

Wild

​@@grimoireweiss5203asking real questiin here 😂

@@grimoireweiss5203 yes.

Peaked at 4200 here, I wish I had some of my off tank clips. I loved OW so much.

It'd still be the best shooter IMO if the game was still in that state.

KZfaq existed…

and most cities are from the same country

Overwatch never did that... Just what people who know nothing about the game say.

@@Bievahh lol.. it literally came from their mouth.. 🙄🙄

@@latibro21 whoever said it is flat out wrong. There was OW esports for years before OWL started

​@@Bievahhyou aren't wrong. APEX existed before OWL. However, the talk of OWL or similar format was brought up in 2016 blizzcon not even half year after the game came out, so I don't think many are wrong to say that they already had esports in mind or wanted to grow it out artificially.

​@@Bievahhbro owl was the least organic esports in the history of esports. After valorant now

Modern Blizz and honesty don’t go in the same sentence sadly

Except the ranked system then was the worst I have ever seen

@@MT-so2mk yeah it was bad but the game itself and the people playing it was fun everyone was learning the game and honestly it was more about how well will you deal with all the egos in the team and get a team cohesion than only skills which made the game so much more fun like a team of worst player could win because they played together and the enemy team imploded from too much ego.

The variety at first is what made this game great there was not one hardline meta that had to be run like goats in order to win. The Skill Gap was taken out of the game as a result of it which is why I loved the game in the first place.

I knew from the very start, Overwatch is just a horrible viewer experience at its core.

I would disagree in this sense. if it was a cash grab from the start, the free and easy to earn loot boxes and skins wouldn't have been included from the get-go.

@@fidomaster447 Is this sarcasm? Lootboxes are the most widespread form of psychological manipulation to increase spending. They probably prized low because they were expecting returns from the esport, not the skin/lootbox sales. It all tracks to trying to make an esport from the ground up.

The original Overwatch was a truly amazing game that brought something fresh and innovative to the scene. It's unfortunate that lootboxes made it in the way they did, as they were very damaging in various ways. When they first started with the OWL, it was obvious to me that THAT was really a cash grab. They looked at the huge commercial success of the League of Legends esports, and wanted a piece of that as well. Overwatch may have been made as a competitive game, but esports are a whole different beast entirely, and after Kaplan left the team it was even more obvious that they were entirely unprepared from the start

​@@zeppie_ They didn't develop the game and then it became a cashgrab with the leauge. As shown in this video, they explicitly said that they developed OW with esports in mind. Furthermore, stuff like cheap lootboxes and free skins can be traced down to focusing on it as an esport: they expected to make money as an esport, so they didn't try to squeeze money the usual way. It's the carriage-before-the-horse approach that doomed them from the start. You make a competitive game and an esport scene has to grow organically. If you force it, you get the OW league, where nobody cared about bottom teams because they didn't develop organically, so the scene rots from the bottom up. Not only that, having a constant league limits how often you can balance your game, since patches introduce a lot of instability and a competitive scene requires a stable game state (which is why League makes tournaments a couple of patches behind live servers).

cs2 pro scene is one of the strongest in the world

that's two different things, even if CS2 was released uncomplete, it's still what was promised and an answer to Riot's Valorant OW2 was an uncessecary new game that haven't achieved what promised

​@@hattorihanzo562 same "sequel" different treatment 😂

It was also because blizzard got insanely greedy and killed their own game

@@Centoriun you're absolutely right

I believe something important to the scene is the understendability of the plays done by common people kinda like the ones done in dota2 or LOL, even though R6 but you only see people running around shooting the first thing they see, making it dificult to even cast what´s happening, the same with World of Warcraft it´s boring hearing 2 hours the caster just talking to themselves without a mayor feedback, just watch the soccer transmissions, don´t take me wrong i loved this game for a long time but trying to scalate into a esport team was nonesense.

What's an SMM?

always love your work sox o7

​@@allanturmaine5496 I suppose that is social media manager

ofc you were a SMM, the lgbtqxyz flag gave it away lmao also, they don't tell you this but wokeness also killed OW. imagine if we had inncent diversity like races instead of sexualities and basing the game around sexualities

Cringe

wasn't that in Valorant?

@@pinkloverprey yeah but he has just come out of overwatch