You see Tyrion kind of forgot that he wanted to kill Littlefinger.

I think the big problem is Tyrion isn’t as pragmatic and as smart as we all think he is. He is very very clever, but he is extremely selfish and spiteful, and that gets in the way. He says multiple times to himself he can’t trust Varys, but Varys makes it easier for him to see and be with Shae(selfish). He says multiple times he needs to get around to getting rid of littlefinger, but he is far more focused on spoiling Cersi’s plans and getting the upper hand(spiteful). So I think that is the issue, not necessarily a plot hole.

Dealing with Janos Slynt before trying to take down Littlefinger is a very logical order of events. Tyrion was trying to avoid the exact same situation Ned ended up in, where he had all the "right" reasons for an arrest, but it didn't matter, because he didn't have control of the goldcloaks. Tyrion didn't have enough control of the gruntwork forces at King's Landing to do something so bold. He could maybe rely on the Lannister forces and his authority as Hand (which, knowing the relationship between Tywin and Tyrion, was probably a trap so that Tywin could disown Tyrion if he made any mistake), but then there's Cersei who would love to jump at any opportunity to undermine his authority and had a tighter grip on those forces as the Queen. He could go the assassination route, but then he would have to rely on someone like Pycelle or Varys, the former being clearly not an option, and the latter being about as unknowable and untrustworthy as Littlefinger, someone you definitely don't want to owe any favours to unless you absolutely must. Basically the only people he had there who could deal with Littlefinger were the mountain clans, and using those to openly kill a member of the small council would be a terrible blow to Tyrion's image. Tyrion was playing a long game, he needed to solidify his position in King's Landing before he could move against his foes. He was playing the game of thrones, and being way more aware of the board situation than most other PoV characters.

Honestly, if I was in King's Landing, staying in the Targaryen's old castle, incest would always be in the back of my mind.

The sheer size of that plothole allowed me and my loyal goldcloaks to completly disapear not just from the Nights Watch but also from the entire story.

Tyrion is also an alcoholic, and that condition clouds his thinking and actions at MANY points in the story.

I disagree with this being a plot hole. He acknowledges that Littlefinger is too useful to be replaced like Janos. But I also think that the Myrcella plot was specifically to try to catch Baelish red handed. Also the reason he feels comfortable taking action against Janos Slynt is because he’s not of noble birth and can more easily be replaced by a loyalist. We constantly see people of noble birth are treated more favorably, whereas people like Davos and Janos aren’t “true” nobles.

Isn't the answer that he only saw Littlefinger as his sisters puppet, so that's why he's one of the candidates for his test with the marriages? The incident with the knife just makes it look like Littlefinger was covering up for Cersei and Jamie by silencing Bran, and instructing Littlefinger to pin it on him wouldn't be beyond cersei. I don't necessarily know if Tyrion would see Littlefinger as the one who started the war at that point, we only know that with hindsight.

That's not a plot hole. Tyrion exacts revenge when he can. He never had a clear opportunity to get revenge against Littlefinger while Littlefinger was still in the capital. After the Blackwater, all Tyrion's energy was focused on figuring out who sent Mandon Moore to kill him and then to keep Shae safe, then to figure out who framed him for the murder of Joffrey, then to escape, then to... etc.

Cersei: "My brother would have killed him", Ned: "Your brother....OR YOUR LOVER?". Cersei: "What? No that's weird. My lover is Tygwick the Blonde, a Lannister guard here at the castle. Why would you think it was Jaime?" Ned: "...I just assumed...Wait, but you did kill Jon Aryn and send that Catspaw to kill Bran, right?" Cersei: "No, that's insane! Why would you jump to that conclusion? You're a pretty shit detective, aren't you Eddard?" Ned "...I'm going back to Winterfell."

Tywin wouldn't leave Tyrion in charge of casterly rock that would imply he was the heir

Honestly I think Little finger was nudging Ned in the incest direction as much as he could and incident with Jaime outside the brothel made it believable he would jump to that conclusion even if it was false which it very well could have been until he confronted Cersei and she confirmed it.

When it comes to Neds jump in logic to believe it’s incest. I always thought that there were rumors about Jaime and Cersei that Tywin would put down so it was that much easier for Ned to come to the conclusion. I mean they’ve been having sex since puberty I’m sure they were caught by a servant once or twice and They had to shut them up or fire them but there would still be rumors.

Killing a master of coin with an apparently good reputation might give the Crown's creditors reason to pause...maybe that stopped Tyrion, can't have the Iron Bank calling in the middle of a war.

The thought of Janos Slynt being nearly as dangerous as Littlefinger to take out, is tbf preposterous to me. He's a muscle, not a player in the Game. He has swords, not strings and connections. I mean what's he gonna do to retaliate against Tyrion, try to take down the Lannister regime? come on. Edit: As a matter of fact, you could totally see getting rid of Slynt to precisely be a move against Littlefinger, even if Tyrion doesn't verbalize it specifically in his chapters. Not saying this is what I believe, just crossed my mind just now.

"Tyrion is the most moral man in Westeros." - D&D

Tyrion would want Janos dead for many reasons. Including the simple reason that he is the easiest and less problematic person to take out his anger on. It makes sense for him to wait until he gets a good measure of Petyr Baelish. Tyrion is smart enough to know that you don’t just make a rash attempt on someone like Little finger. Other events came up, to distract him from focusing on little finger. Tyrion is not yet like Tywin at this point. He becomes more like Tywin as the story continued. Yes Tywin would have chopped off the heads of every council member . That is the Tywin way, that was not Tyrion. Tyrion knew his limitations even as hand of the King. He had to know who was working with little finger, it is not as simple as just killing him. The man made himself very useful to a lot of people, that is how to stay alive in a capital- being cautious.

Cup of coffee and Preston Jacobs to start my work day...

Tyrion getting offered a freebie from the prostitute, and rejecting it, was one of my first big "what a load of shit" moments in the show, especially having read the books and knowing he's arguably at his worst at that point.

I think, as a leader and smart man, Ned made an educated guess…then he confronted…then got confirmation from Cersei…so to me that’s not a plot hole at all. It’s equivalent to an “Ah-Ha” moment IMO

My understanding, although not stated in Tyrion's mind, was that they expected Petyr to bring Lysa on their side, and Tywin tries it later... As a hand of the King, Tyrion had all the support he needed and didn't feel a need to rush, didn't expect that the tings will unfold that way.

I got the feeling that Tyrion was hesitant to act against Littlefinger because he knew how much of a massive debt the crown was running, and that Littlefinger was the only one who could maybe manage it

in the show baelish even mocks cersei for being incestous in her face before cersei put a dagger on her throat. this is very stupid of him and didnt make any sense. cersei is extremely powerful, wtf is he thinking mocking her like that

Allar Deem is the key to the entire series! Tyrion knew if he stayed in Kings Landing he would destroy Tyrion right away. An even more dangerous man than Sir Ten Goodmen

I always got the feeling that Tyrion didn't spend that much time at court. But he spent ENOUGH time to know who these people are. And Tywin didn't just tell him to get rid of Petyr. He basically told him to kill Pycell, Petyr and Varys.

Tyrion has a special reason for hating infanticide. It nearly happened to him. He has every reason to dispose Janos Slynt. He also probably knew the mother VERY closely.

Tyrion just kind of forgot about Littlefinger.

When it comes to Ned's jump in logic from adultery to incest, I think the lynchpin is that both Cersei and Jamie were unaccounted for the day Bran fell out of the tower. Because of the additional attempt on Bran's life, Ned assumes Bran saw something. Because everyone else was out hunting, it must have been something with Cersei and Jamie. I suppose Bran could have overheard Cersei telling Jamie about her adultery with someone else, but that probably wouldn't warrant the 2 death attempts (the second attempt was not by Cersei and Jamie, but Ned doesn't know that).

I don't think it is ever stated where Tyrion actually lived before AGOT. I always assumed it was Casterly Rock, and that he would often visit King's Landing. He seems to know ABOUT the Small Council members as someone who would visit alot.

My theory on this plothole is that GRRM, while writing the second book, realized how valuable Littlefinger really was as a character and potentially having him cut off would've completely wasted his potential. Because when you think about it, Littlefinger being confronted about the dagger at this point in the story could've forced him to leave the story altogether in the second book (i.e. get killed, go to trial and get killed, run away and never return). Thus to prevent his departure, he tried to have us focus on other aspects such as Janos Slynt and the 3 Wedding Proposals so that he could keep him in and continue to influence the plot and deepen the storytelling even more.

Couldn’t the reason Tyrion didn’t act against Littlefinger is because Littlefinger had just “proven” his loyalty before Tyrion’s arrival by betraying Ned and handing him over to the Lannisters thus Tyrion lost a bit of political capital to move against him because of Littlefinger ingratiating himself to the Lannisters especially after negotiating the Tyrell alliance. Littlefinger is so damn useful and Lannisters pay their debts.

Tyrion removed Janos because it was one of the things Tywin told Tyrion to do while he was Hand.😊

I think George in generally tries to have his cake and eat it too when it comes to Littlefinger. One the one hand LF is supposed to be „everybody's friend“ and „no threat to anyone“ but on the other hand he‘s a known liar and has wormed his way into becoming Lord Protector of the friggin Vale. I get that it's supposed to be about how he's not a great fighter and doesn't have any armies but especially someone like Tyrion should know that control of the King's coffers, plus a huge spie network are way more important than armies when it comes to playing the game of thrones.

Character missing opportunities or acting unwisely do not equate to plot holes. People in fiction, as in reality, make mistakes, underestimate their opponents and fail. Perhaps Tyrion was genuinely concerned for the good of the realm and the financial state of his house without the accounting wizardry.

The biggest plothole is how the fuck did the Ironborn take Moat Cailin, despite the fact that Robb left a garisson there?

Tyrion was probably at court so he could be as far away from his father as possible.

Here quoting the books about what tyrion though after confronting littlefinger about that dagger : "But do I dare touch him? Tyrion wondered. Even if he is a traitor? He was not at all certain he could, least of all now, while the war raged. Given time, he could replace Littlefinger’s men with his own in key positions, but . . ." I think plot wise Tyrion got that his imprisonment was so Starks declared war on Lannisters, so it was not directed against him. Plus littlefinger was more prompt on giving him useful informations than Varys whom keeps those aren't useful to his plan Littlefinger proved useful later luring Cat into freeing Jaime and rallying the Tyrells. As hand of the king you'd rather have him as an ally than having him killed Besides regarding that dagger if I remember correctly, after the first assassin got killed and Tyrion got no Intel from Cat who wanted to believe bran's assault was the lannister work so all he had was a lie, not enough to make one of the most useful man executed somehow

I’ll take it a step further. Nothing involving the dagger makes sense. The fact Joffrey hired the catspaw, arming the guy with a dagger from the armory, none of it makes much sense really.

Littlefinger "the dagger belonged to Slynt". There, plothole fixed with some dirt and a shovel

I don't agree with critics that say Tyrion couldn't act Ty: Hey Shagga, kill that guy with the rat beard LF: Ouch, oh no my throat is open. How can I still talk? (dies) Cersei: Why did you do that? Ty: He told Ned you were fucking Jamie. Janos Slynt: (Doesn't give a fuck, goes to Harrenhal)

I think getting rid of Janis Slynt came down more to how he betrayed them for money. Meaning his loyalty to the Lannisters wasn't genuine. Littlefinger might have proved himself untrustworthy in general, but with what went down in Kingslanding (and with how he's so incompatible with Stannis's ethics) he had firmly placed himself on the Lannisters's side.

The biggest plot hole in the series is people backing Renly when Stannis would next in succession. They're so concerned with the legalities of succession, but they support a sexual deviant for the throne over the rightful heir who is a highly competent commander because he's kind of abrasive??? Ridiculous!

Well, Tyrion does in a way attempt to kill littlefinger. He sends him in a diplomatic mission to Highgarden. His rationale, if I remember correctly, was that in the worst case scenario it would be a suicide mission for littlefinger (which of course he is ok with) and, in the best case scenario, it would result in a much needed Lannister-Tyrell alliance (which is what ends up happening). In a way he did try to dispose of him. Also, I think it is mentioned that littlefinger is more useful alive than dead, although I don't know if it was Tyrion who said it or someone else. Since littlefinger is not highborne, nobody thinks he's that much of a threat, including Tyrion, but they do all think he is very useful.

18:50 About this whole discussion. It always bothered me that the white washing of Tyrion in the show had a knock on affect for all the characters. It makes anybody who dislikes him in the show just come across worse because there is no possible way that anyone who talks him wouldn't become fond of him unless they are just evil. It makes more sense in the book how he could rub people the wrong way. It affected Cersei the most, I find Cersei much more interesting in the books because on one hand she is kind of even more evil and spiteful, but you can also understand more why she hates Tyrion and how she sees him. Book Cersei genuinely believes Tyrion killed Joffrey and would be willing or even eager to hurt her and her other children, she actually fears him. In the show it just comes across that she hates him because she hates him and doesn't care whether he is a threat or whether he is guilty of anything.

Didn't Tyrion live in Casterly Rock before becoming Hand? I don't recall the books mentioning he was at court before the start of the series

Interesting point, although sadly lacking that extra tad of tinfoil. I've always chalked that one up to gradual irrelevance. At that point the driving narrative and motivation of the war has changed from a retaliation against a rival house to the defense of the Loyal Kingdoms against the Northern aggressor. One could see it as a plot hole or just another one of the moments where Tyrion overestimates his own abilities and underestimates the players involved. There is enough room for readers to fill in the gaps on their own or point out the gap as presented. As always, a fun discussion, keep up the quality work Preston.

I think it would have been really amazing to have Tyrion and Littlefinger in a cold war of plots and have them exchange moves with Littlefinger positioning himself in such a way that he can't be gotten rid of until after the wedding and then frames Tyrion just before he can be killed. This would have made the death of the king have an even greater pay off for the reader, especially since Littlefinger literally steals Tyrion's wife.

You seem very confident that Tyrion had been living at King's Landing before the events of the books, but I'm not sure if that's true. Where is this stated to be the case?

Oh, Preston. I agree with you a lot of the time but on the whole dagger thing you’ve fell into the same trap that and made the same mistake Ned did in GoT…Youve presumed Little-finger was weak. Tyrion needed to eliminate the hold Slynt and (therefore Petyr’s) control over the goldcloaks in order to ‘make a move’ against Baelish. Otherwise he would have ended up in the dungeons and executed for crimes against the crown just as Ned was. I don’t dispute that Tryion should have tried to execute a plan more in line with working against Petyr, but Tryion had no allies walking into KL in Clash. He needed to gauge his options and build a foundation of support before attempting to take on LittleFinger.

I never thought about Ned's jump in logic, how just because Joffrey and Cersei's other children are blonde, that doesn't mean they are born from an incestuous relationship with Jaime. Sure, she is having an affair but it doesn't mean it's with Jaime, which is what a logical person would think. Maybe Eddard's hatred of Jaime is why he thinks it's Jamie's children, since he has no honour is makes sense for him to do it or something

10:30 "Maybe Tyrion was out of it because he was [engaging with ladies of the night]" - In the books, he specifically states that he hadn't had intercourse for years. The whoring is only added in the books. Resonably, Tyrion was deliberately kept out of politics due to the most powerful members of his family (i.e. his father and sister) hated him. It stands to reason he was mostly a tutor for his niece and nephews and spending most of his time in the libraries to read. Littlefinger was above his paygrade and books were always more interesting to Booktryion.

The thing is, that if Tyrion meant to move against Littlefinger, Littlefinger would've known and would've done something, the control that Peter has of the goldcloaks maybe gave Tyrion pause to move against him, and also the war got in the way, and Ser Mandon Moore did try to kill Tyrion, so Littlefinger did want to get rid of Tyrion, it's just that Tyrion got so much in his hands he didn't got around to plot a way to get at Littlefinger.

With Ned jumping to the twincest, there was always a rumor about Jaime and Cersi being lovers. So it’s very possible that was in the back of his mind and that he was the only blonde guy he could think of that she was close to.

It was also because Tyrion didn't do anything to save Tysha, he partook of her rape. He has such self loathing about it.

What is the textual evidence that Tyrion lived in kings landing before the war? I can’t remember where this is mentioned.

Wasn't Tyrion in charge of Casterly Rock's sewers or something like that? That would explain why he doesn't know the people in King's Landing very well

I waited for my morning commute to listen. Got my coffee bring on the Preston gold ☕☕👍👍

And again, another great meeting of the minds!

There are rumours about the incest throughout the novel leading up to Ned figuring it out....and the thing is Ned takes rumours very seriously when it comes to Robert's marriage because he notices how unhappy his friend is and how dysfunctional Cersei and him are. Jamie and Cersei do not hide their relationship well because they believe themselves superior. If we consider how attached at the hip they are and how Ned is already assessing Joffrey to marry Sansa we can figure that Jamie and Cersei were the parents. the problem is introduced later when Jamie finds out that Cersei sleeps around with many people, so many that he cannot figure that she has a type even. That would have been Ned's main problem. If she is known to sleep around with everyone then Jamie's proximity to her could have been a clue along with Joffrey's insanity...Littlefinger nudges him with info as well

If you haven't noticed, becoming Hand seems to increase naivety 10-fold and decrease IQ by a good 20 points. It explains Tyrion's blunders, it explains Ned's blunders, it's almost like a running joke to be honest. That being said, I believe Tyrion was planning Littlefinger's execution, the excuse was he was waiting to find someone suitable to replace him as Master of Coin since, to be fair, LF is great at his job.

From Wiki: Upon arriving at King's Landing to serve as Hand of the King while Lord Tywin Lannister is in the field, Tyrion Lannister realizes Petyr is more dangerous than he had previously known.[8] Tyrion learns about Petyr's past, learning how Petyr came to be on the small council, naming Petyr a "master juggler" when referring to his skill at finances, and noting on the fact that Petyr, due to his low birth and the way he presents himself, is not seen as a threat by anyone.[9] Realizing Petyr has many of his own men placed into multiple positions, Tyrion decides not to make a move against Petyr concerning the lie he told about Tyrion's involvement in the attack on Bran Stark's life, until he can find a way to replace those men with his own.[9]

I fully agree with most of your points but Tyrion wanting to get rid of Slynt makes complete sense. Considering he's in command of the biggest armed force in the city, the fact that he willingly executed Ned proves beyond a point he is _not_ a man Tyrion can trust if you understand how Tyrion operates. He wants people he can buy, who are loyal to him because they always know they can get a better deal from him, like he basically told Bronn "If someone tries to buy you, come to me first, you know I'll pay double". Slynt executing Ned without consulting with Cersei first shows that either a) he's too stupid to understand to political consequences of his actions or b) he's so deep in someone else's pocket he won't come to Tyrion before doing something. Either of those make him useless and even dangerous to Tyrion in that position, so he has to go.

Neds logic jump was especially egregious when you realize Jon Arryn never discovered it either he was just researching some other thing in that book and his search for the illegitimate children was totally unrelated to that. Just one big coincidence.

Yeah I fully agree. I noticed this as well. The catspaw's Valyrian steel dagger (and the fact that someone is clearly playing a sick game behind-the-scenes using it) should constantly be on Tyrion's mind and it's rather unbelievable Tyrion just 'forgets' about it later instead of trying to fully get to the bottom of it, especially given everything that has happened (someone managed to put the blaim for the attempt on Bran's life on him [while he did have nothing to do with that and is appalled by it] due to which he _almost died_ (!), and all hell broke loose because of it), since this totally does not fit to his character (his intelligence, his investigative nature, and his 'hunger for revenge' when someone harmed/wronged him).

Hey Carmine (and Preston), in regards to Tyrion's drastic change after the the death of Tywin and Shae, you should watch a video called Why Omitting the Tysha Confession Ruins Tyrion's Character Arc by Macabre Storytelling. It's a fairly well known video in the fandom so you guys might've already seen it, but if your buddy hasn't it you should tell him to watch it, it really does a good job of breaking down exactly how poorly the show starts portraying Tyrion after he leaves King's Landing, and how it makes much more sense (of course) for him to be a bit fucked up like he is in the books.

It bugs me SO BAD that Tyrion only thinks "he can't touch him"... Like..why?.. Smh.

LOVE how they addressed the plot hole by digging it deeper and wider. The dagger is simply sentient and burdened with glorious purpose

‘I have friends at court’. Janos Sylent Friends At Court: Doubtful.

The reason little finger can’t be killed is that he is the only one able to stop the bankruptcy of the crown

Now I really want to read a novella about the King's Landing crew. Jon Arryn, Stannis, Tyrion, Lysa, Renly, Jaime, Cersei, Robert, Littlefinger, Varys.... I can't imagine a dull moment.

glad you guys are discussing A Song of Ice and Fire, even though I know you can discuss whatever you like

Love these Podcast's / Video's. Keep up the good work fellas!

Tyrion does considerr removing Petyr. But he is fazed by the confidense Littlefinger displays when Tyrion indirectly confronts him. On studying LFs background, Tyrion correctly concludes LF to be too strong to act against. Anyone sent against him will not succeed in killing him. LF has too many spies and connections. Also, Tyrion cant openly call for LFs execution, as he is influencial and there is no proof. And LF takes all precautions to have Tyrion killed, including setting Mandon Moore upon him and turning Joffrey against him even more than he already is. We are talking about the guy who talks to Sansa casually about kiling Cersie.

You just blew my mind. I know this, and never thought about it more😮

I was always obsessed with what’s happened to Rhaella Targaryen‘s body. Years ago, I loved the idea of her being Quaithe. She‘s one of those typical lost mothers in epic fantasy / science fiction. Nobody‘s ever surprised that Belladonna Took, Primula Brandybuck, Gilraen, Celebrian and Padme have to be dead or disappeared for the hero to work,

Tyrion knows little finger holds the gold cloaks, he knows little finger has money. Little finger and Slynt can't be compared. Slynts authority comes from his appointment, likely by little finger, not from any personal power. Little finger has spies, pays the gold cloaks, mercenaries and perhaps most obviously, little finger knew tyrion knew, and would be prepared for it. Tyrion's power is not secure at all.

Regarding the point about Janos Slynt, I think it had more to do with the fact Tyrion needed someone he felt he could rely on in charge of the Gold Cloaks and Slynt was easier to dispose of than his other enemies at the moment

Well jeez with a title like that I guess I have to stop watching my other video

I don't recall Tyrion being at court before the first book, he was head of the sewers at his home...

I mean Tyrion acts like he learns a lot about Littlefinger in ACOK because he probably didn't take him very seriously until he tried to get him killed in AGOT.

What had always bothered me to no end is all these royal families that had been in power for a thousand years, yet during the course of the books multiple Houses were extinguished. Also, Roberts Rebellion ends with the death of Arys, yet Robert keeps multiple members of his Small Council and Kingsguard.

Huh. I was kind of under the impression that Tyrion was living at Casterly Rock before the events of the books. I remember that there was a suit of armour specifically made for Tyrion, but it's sitting in Casterly Rock, so Tyrion has to make do with whatever pieces of armour he can find (which, of course, don't fit him very well). You'd think that, if he were living in King's Landing, he'd have that suit of armour brought over at some point.

And now the dagger shows up in House of the Dragon and it is inscribed with the prophecy of Ice and Fire. Hahaha.

It’d actually be really hard to kill/ fire littlefinger with him basically controlling the money supply of the crown (even worse, nobody knows where he gets it from). Basically by removing him from the council you’d reduce your ability to get your hands on money for the war effort + make enemies with the guy who is implied to have such great contacts within banks etc that he could be a massive pain to deal with if he lived. Killing him would first of all be hard to justify (could lose Tyrion who’s coming in to court as a new Hand quite a bit of esteem and have people be more weary of him than they already are. So breaking that down what would be in it for Tyrion? Wars already ongoing so you can’t go back on that (+money more important than ever), leaving revenge as the only real thing to gain. Tyrions thoughts sum it up perfectly: Littlefinger is well liked and seems harmless, but laying hands on him could be very costly - too costly for Tyrion as a newcomer to court and his new role as hand, especially during wartime.

I remember the point Tyrion said that and I assumed he was still using Littlefinger and gathering all of the evidence. Still doesn’t make sense, but I don’t think it’s the largest plot hole. George makes a point to tell you that Slynt has taken half of the gold cloak’s pay as well. But he is literally the one controlling the cloaks, when Tyrion put his guy over them he controlled them versus LF. Also there is a point made that LF bought the brothels as a front for how he made all of his money. But regardless, LF did serve a purpose and by getting the Tyrell’s it did save King’s Landing. And the reason Tyrion questions Cat is because LF believes his own lie.

I mean it's kinda obvious that Tyrion considers Cersei his main enemy- he's trying to get rid of people that he thinks are more loyal to her than to him- Janos and Pycelle and from his point of view she is much more powerful and dangerous than Littlefinger. He needs to get rid of Janos not because he betrayed Ned but because he needs the gold cloaks led by someone who is on his side rather than on Cersei's. If I only knew what he knows then I would be more afraid of who would take Littlefinger's place if I killed him than of Littlefinger himself. I would see someone who only does things for himself less dangerous than someone who's devoted for Cersei. The mystery that is never really mentioned in the books is how Littlefinger gets the money for the Crown since we know the insane debt... Would Tyrion be able to find someone who can deal with the debt collectors AND get more money while also not being Cersei's puppet? You can't forget that these are times of war and you cant win a war when youre completely out of money. I think Tyrion even thinks to himself something like "I will get rid of Littlefinger once the war is over". So he's not getting rid of people just because they're corrupt but because he needs to fill their place with someone better which is much smarter than to just start killing everyone without a second thought about what's gonna happen afterwards. But still if Tyrion knew how much of a threat Littlefinger actually is... I think it's not a plothole but rather a huge underestimation

I just thought genetics was…..diffferent? In game of thrones. Like Ned understood there was some real reason why those kids having blonde hair would have to mean both their parents had blonde hair. From there he just assumed it was Jaime because he was so handsome.

Can’t believe now how I overlooked that but you guys are right. After enduring everything Tyrion did due to Littlefinger’s lie, the fact that he didn’t kill him is beyond me.

This is a class in making a 2 minute conversation last 20!

If I recall in the show, Catlyn did not state to Tyrion that Littlefinger told her about the Dagger. Maybe George working on the show as a writer decided to clean that detail out. Now Tyrion clearly had no lead to find out who framed him. Worse it happens twice when he's accused of murdering the King.

I remember Tyrion was thinking about replacing all little fingers people over time? Maybe after he did that he would take him out

I love these podcasts they remind me of the crazy theories me and my friends

It's not often mentioned, but it was ridiculous that Robert retained Varys as master of whisperers after his betrayal of Aerys demonstrated his treachery.

The funniest thing about this is that Preston thinks Littlefinger wasn't in charge of the Goldcloaks before Janos Slynt and during Bronn's time in charge of them. The only one with as much deeply engrained influence in King's Landing as Littlefinger, that is as widely spread as his influence, is Varys. And Varys and Littlefinger are both able to use this influence to orchestrate plots to completely destroy the kingdom, show the capability of being able to kill the Royal family or the Hand of the King at any time. Also, the reason he wants to get rid of Janos Slynt is that he's easier to remove, and is already bought and paid for. People wouldn't fight back and try to kill or cripple Tyrion if he got rid of Janos Slynt and replaced him with Bronn, as opposed to him trying to find where Littlefinger is at the moment and hunt him down, without managing to tip off any of the people on his payroll.

It has been said before, but Tyrion is kind of a bully, and bullies don't tend to punch up, or even sideways. Littlefinger is at least a peer to Tyrion, at least in his mind, the only fights he tends to takes on are ones he's certain to win, or has no choice but to take. Even in the context of the story where this definitely is an unaddressed plot hole, I don't necessarily think its completely out of character. I mean, he kills plenty of people, but they're all generally powerless to resist. Definitely think he should have killed Littlefinger, but Tyrion isn't the bravest person in our story, and isn't as clever as he thinks he is.

It looked like Tyrion´s plan was to take the small council apart piece by piece; first Slynt than Pycelle. There is no reason to think that he did not plan to take Baelish out at some point, or is there? I also always thought Tyrion too hesitant in his actions towards Baelish.. BUT..there are many things to consider in Tyrions strategy, like timing, his own power and a lack of information - all of which are also somewhat connected. In the beginning his little powerbase is a writ of paper, his wit, some clansmen and his Lannister-heritage: He comes to Kings Landing as the "nominal" Hand of the King and is stepping into a pit of snakes with no allies to speak of. His authority as the Hand is derived from a paper of his Father Tywin. He knows that this is a fragile start and that his survival is somewhat dependent of Cersei´s goodwill/her fear for her Father (and Cersei knows that instinctively as well). He takes actions against the queens wishes and moves on thin ice. Little by little he improves his own position and undermines Cersei´s: he relieves her of the Lannstier soldiers, removes allies in the council (Slynt and Pycelle), raises his own private army ect. Removing Janos Slynt or Pycelle is also something completely different as removing Littlefinger: the first two are no-one´s with little to no connections and (somewhat) dimwitted. The other does not only have many of his men in important positions , he could also be secrectly connected to the queen (Tyrions test just proved that Pycelle is the greater lickspittle with no self-constraint at all). LF is absolutely vital in the war-efforts because of his "talent" of making money - and at this point in ASOIAF the Lannisters fought The North/Riverrun/Dragonstone/Stormsend/Highgarden at the same time). Baelish´s information network is likely only second to Varys´ own and LF´s faked confidence and bold words appear to Tyrion as if LF could have something up his sleeve if he is removed forcefully. The greatest plot hole imo is that in the beginning when Catelyn, Ser Rodric and Maester Luwin though about the attack on Bran, no one wondered why the assassin´s employer so desperately/clumsily gave seemingly strong evidence in the form of that Valyrian dagger.. THAT looked soo much like a murmurs farce from the outside

The whole dagger plotline never made sense to me, and your recent videos just made that clearer to me. If you harken back to your first reading of A Game of Thrones, the dagger plotline is the whole catalyst and setpiece to the war, as well as Jon Arryn's murder. Yet Tyrion doesn't act on Littlefinger. Either GRRM is an idiot or Tyrion is. Seeing how ASOIAF will never have an ending it sounds more and more like meandering pointless intrigued with a vague anti-war message that never pays off. When will we see interaction with the others or the squishers? I'm calling it right now: never. Not by George's hand anyways. Nor will there ever be a satisfying resolution to this massive plothole. Sad.

I think if it was like in the show where (as far as we know) Catelyn doesn’t tell Tyrion that Littlefinger told her about the dagger, that would fix everything

You could see Tyrion removing Janos Slynt as him disarming Littlefinger of power and influence over the goldcloaks through Janos

The reason Ned works out the incest is because of the attack on Bran. Jamie and Cersei were the only ones who stayed behind and they would only try to kill Bran if he saw them. This is super simple stuff that I remember from reading the books years ago.