Robb betrothed to Daenerys that would be interesting

Sansa marrying Valerion makes no sense since he's the second son. What makes better sense is Rhaenys marrying Robb to appease the North, Valerion marrying Arianne to appease the Dornish and Aegon marrying Margaery since they need the crops and livestock for the coming winter and the Reach supported Rhaegar from the start of the rebellion.

What if Ned has successfully deposed Cersei and Joffrey after Robert's death?

The rebellion formally started when Jon Arryn called his bannermen rather than hand over Ned and Robert. It was called Robert’s Rebellion he sat on the Iron Throne. Ned wasn’t interested in it. And the Tully’s were in with the Starks. It’s more of a Northern Rebellion than Stormer own.

I disagree about Elia. She would see Jon as a serious threat to her children. Remember the Blackfyres anyone Plus Jon is a visible reminder of how Rhaegar humiliated her in front of all of Westeros. I doubt she would be a mother figure for him. Jon would also be surrounded by intrigue and viewed with suspicion by many so I doubt he would be happier growing up in the Red Keep then he was in Winterfell. Also would Ned really betroth Sansa to a bastard?

What if Viserys only have daughters with Alicent? What if Jace & Helaena married? What if Viserys had Aegon married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death?

I love how Dorne are more open minded with all the succession and bastards thing

One problem with the initial argument for the change in the timeline; the North, Vale, and Riverland forces arrived shortly after Robert lands the killing blow. If Rhygar takes his time to win, then the North hell bent on vengeance will arrive the the Vale and Riverland troops before Robert could be killed. Not to mention the if Rhygar does kill Robert as you say his men are in disarray and would be unable to stop the fresh troops from sweeping them from the field. Rhygar is almost certain to die if he engages with Robert. For Rhygar to win he has to hold back and when the North, Vale, and Riverlands arrive fall back and fight a series of running battles to keep the Rebel army after him and blind to it's terrain until Rhygar can get a field advantage to counter the larger force of the rebels. We can't forget Robert was too badly injured to continue the war and Ned Stark became leader of Robert's Rebellion. Therefore the rebellion's name would change. If Robert died as the war was the insult to the Stark family foremost. Lyanna was taken, Rickard and Brandon Stark killed by the king. The Starks and the North have the most reason for war. Not Robert. Robert was the loudest voice over the insult of Lyanna's taking. The result of this change would be a name change and a great council to choose a new king. Tywin would be afraid to deliver kings landing like he did if Robert was dead because Ned was married to Catlynn and Ned was know to be a quite and kind individual. Tywin wouldn't be able to marry Cersie off to Ned nor would he risk Ned's unknown reaction to the underhanded tactics we have in the books

in the show, Rhaegar didn't even put a dent into Bobby Baratheon. In the books, Rhaegar wounded Baratheon. So lets get the facts straight here.

I really like this video! There's just one thing I think is almost definitely incorrect: Elia's opinion on the matter would probably have no bearing on the potential annulment/plural marriage situation, and it could potentially be considered legally valid. It might be considered dubious for other reasons, but not because of her stance on it. Should it? Yes. But in a legal sense, her assent isn't required. The marriage laws of Westeros are largely religious, so most likely it would just require a high enough religious leader. It's also likely that there's an established process for this (Renly expected Robert to set Cersei aside for Margery, implying there is a procedure), and it would probably require the High Septon to be involved. It would likely require proving some defect in or transgression by one of the parties, since it's unlikely that no fault divorces exist in Westeros, to whatever their version of an ecclesiastical tribunal/court is. That only requires one party to get involved. Also, public announcement may not be a requirement and may have been held off on because of how fractious everything was at the time. But if there were paperwork and documents showing that the High Septon had agreed Rhaegar could set Elia aside prior to him marrying Lyanna there likely wouldn't be legal grounds for anyone to object, including Elia. I don't actually think that Rhaegar married Lyanna in the books, my personal theory is that she didn't want to marry and he (as part of his ongoing effort to groom a literal child, wtf Rhaegar) agreed that she could become something like an official lover/favorite and any of their children would be made legitimate either by his father or by him once he became king. But let's say he did. There are a couple options for how things went down: Illegal/unrecognized ceremony: Rhaegar basically pulled a Maegor and went "let's do a Valyrian ceremony," which no part of the country lawfully recognizes. Basically everyone would consider them not to be married and Elia to be his only wife. Elia's opinion would be moot. They got married in front of a heart tree with no other preperation: first men culture does historically allow for plural marriages, as does Valyrian culture. Unless there are specific non-ecclesiastical laws specifying that you may have only one spouse, passed by a Targaryen monarch, this would arguably be a valid marriage (also, GRRM has made statements implying such laws do not explicitly exist). It would also probably piss off the entire Faith and they would declare it invalid, at which point it becomes a question of how much support Rhaegar has and how willing he is to lead the country into another civil war over all this. (Interestingly, you could also make the argument that Lyanna was the equivelent of a "salt wife," which gives fewer rights than being a "rock wife" but does mean her children wouldn't be bastards. To the Iron Born, anyway, although I doubt the Faith would agree with that either). In this sort of case, Elia's opinion would still be relatively unimportant, since there's no indication that any of the relevant cultures require the assent of a wife to her husband taking other wives. They were married with the consent of/by the High Septon under the doctrine of Targaryen exceptionalism: this would make it a fully legally valid plural marriage, although some elements of the Faith would still raise a stink about it. Lyanna would be considered Rhaegar's fully legal wife, and it's less likely there would be a civil war. Elia's opinion would likely not be consulted, and it's likely she would not be informed until afterward if at all. Rhaegar set Elia aside, AH edition: Rhaegar in the longstanding tradition of "I have power and money so I'll do what I want" put pressure on the High Septon to agree to set Elia aside because he really wanted to marry someone else. This would probably be closer to a divorce than an annulment- this would mean he was no longer married to her, but his children were still his legitimate heirs. Elia possibly should have been informed, but Rhaegar was throwing his weight around so she wasn't. It is unlikely her not knowing beforehand would be sufficent to overturn the seperation, although it might if there are protection laws in place for wives or if she could prove that the accusation levied against her was baseless. Of course, she would either be proving this to the High Septon who agreed to it or to the king, so she may not have much luck, but she might have some legal recourse. Rhaegar annuled his marriage to Elia: this is AH version 2, electric boogaloo. Since annulling a marriage is functionally undoing it altogether, Rhaegar would basically need to prove the marriage was never valid to begin with. This would make his children illegitimate, outrage a great many people, and be unlikely to work at all. Elia's opinion on this would be largely irrelevant, since it's proving the marriage never really happened properly (since she's given him children, it's unlikely that it would be voidable). "Was the marriage legally constructed?" is an objective test, and her views wouldn't be relevant to it. Nor would she necessarily need to be informed, since such a pronouncement is less "you are now divorced" and more "our bad, you were never married" which wouldn't necessarily require notification. The only remotely sensible option- Rhaegar set Elia aside for cause: Renly expecting Robert to do this to Cersei implies that it is a procedure which can occur (if likely a highly involved, expensive one that is only available to the very rich/powerful). We don't know what grounds exist for it, but the most likely ones are: infertility, failure to perform marital duties, adultery, and possibly certain types of crime (like treason) as well. Elia gave Rhaegar children, and we have no reason to believe she cheated or commited treason, but she is likely failing to perform her marital duties. It's stated that more children would be impossible/kill her, making it unlikely they're being intimate and possibly going back to the infertility angle. In this case, Elia might need to be called upon to be asked if she is actually no longer able to have children/denying her husband his 'rights,' but statements from other trusted members of the community (like the Grand Maester) would probably be sufficent. If the High Septon were convinced this was the case, he might agree to annul the marriage. She might have needed to be notified in this case, but there probably wouldn't be a requirement for a public announcement and things would have been kept qquiet because of the rebellion. I also feel like it's worth noting that if Elia's options were "certainly die (probably in childbirth)" or "let your husband marry someone else," she would probably choose the latter. A husband does have rights to his wife in Westerosi culture, and Rhaegar could have pushed the matter on the hope his third child would survive even if she didn't. So even if her assent/notification was required (which is unlikely) she probably couldn't do much to fight it anyway. ETA: some of the Fire and Blood stuff apparently implies it's a king's perogative to set a wife aside? In which case it would have to be either Aerys or one of his many Hands. Which is entirely possible, given that one of those Hands was Jon Connington. But in that case, Elia's opinion would be even less of a factor since it'd basically just be based on the will of the king rather than an established legal or ecclesiastical custom.

The Nights Watch deserter maybe doesn't get beheaded because Rhaegar has told Ned about the threat from the North.

Daenerys mother would probably still die giving birth to her and Cersei has a profecy that she will be a queen until replaced so she could be a likely third wife to Rhegar.

make a what if Aegon V didn't die in The Tragedy of summerhall, and had managed to hatch dragon eggs, let's say 3 dragon eggs to make it interesting, how would that change history from that point o,n with no one dying in summerhall and dragons returning to the world?

Why do people take Dorne's chill nature as incompetence. Their Society basically hinges on "we are all people but we all have our places". Oberyn and Ellaria where in love had four kids and could not get married bc she was a bastard. Dorian loves his nieces and adores his daughter's friends but I doubt they got the same level of treatment she got in captivity and it's seen in their individual punishments which were more severe than Arianne's. Also how's Martell is a prideful house there is no way that you're not going to feel slighted by the birth of Jon passion or not his birth brought a war that could have killed their princess and her children and did kill one of their princes. They will never let Rhaeger make a Deal that incentive the North or elevate them over Dorne

When you said the last parts of this video, I remembered what Viserys said. “The belief that we control the dragons is an illusion.” So yes, the dragons might not be useful. If ever, they might only make things worse with the night king’s undead on this timeline.

I always thought Jon’s name in the book would be Rhaegar the second

You should lean into the scenario with multiple part. Show how Rhaegar could use his sister and brother to secure more alliances and the 16 year prep to the long night.

* What if Jace Velaryon lived? * What if Ned Stark accepted the Iron Throne, instead of Robert?

It was more than Arthur Dayne & Gerold Hightower at the Tower of Joy. That’s just what they depicted in the show. Another Kingsguard, Oswell Whent was there in the books.

I disagree about Ned's reaction... he actually was never angry or mistrustful of Rhaegar. Robert and Brandon Stark (Ned's brother, the one who strangled to death while watching their father get burned alive) were the hotheaded ones. Ned also knew Rhaegar, at least a little (enough to ponder to himself in the books that Rhaegar wasn't the type to frequent brothels), and if he knew Rhaegar well enough to know that, then he knew Rhaegar well enough to know that he wasn't mad like Aerys. I imagine that Ned's feelings when Lyanna was supposedly "abducted" by Rhaegar, were feelings of confusion. The anger only came when his father and brother were tortured to death for a completely imagined "treason." But Ned never held that against Rhaegar, or Lyanna. He loved Lyanna... and he knew perfectly well that she was never in love with Robert. Nor was Robert truly in love with her... he was in love with the _idea_ of her, but Robert imagined Lyanna as some sort of beautiful angel, when she was actually... a lot like Arya. That's how she's described in the books... Arya's compared to Lyanna a _lot._ Not even remotely what Robert believed her to be. Anyway... Ned's war was always against Aerys, not Rhaegar. Aerys is the one who slaughtered his brother and father. Upon learning that Rhaegar had a plan to remove Aerys, Ned would be all in. I do like that you touched on the plan Rhaegar had to remove his father, btw. Though I wish you went into more detail about what you think that plan may have originally entailed.

It seems weird to me that Rhaegar was hiding with Lyanna in Dorne, in a tower near the main road, and managed to snuggle a person (most likely related to Hightowers somehow) to marry them but Elia’s family or even Elia herself (who knew about Rhaegar’s obsession with the prophecy) didn’t know about that abd even allowed it.

Ooooh this needs a part 2 and 3!!! :D So many things would change!!!

If Rhaegar killed Robert I think Ned and Jon Arryn would retreat back to the North and the Vale. Both kingdoms are pretty much invasion proof unless Rhaegar gets a dragon or three. So I agree Rhaegar would use Lyanna to negotiate an end of hostilities with Ned. Rhaegar wants to be king of 7 kingdoms not 5 so he’d have to negotiate to get a United Kingdom to face the Long Night.

Here another take: Rhaegar realizes he didnt get his visenya but a second son instead. Confuzed how the prophecy doesnt fullfil itself rhaegar thinks through the whole thing and realizes that the conquering trio had the same parents. So he names jon orys -after aegons half brother- does not acceot him as his true born son and decides to try and sire a third child with elia despite the warnings of the maester. When this fails he starts to assume a conspirocy against his family, after all hoe else could the prophecy fail? In the end he becomes similar paranoid like his father and a second mad king is born. Ned in this scenario will take orys with him to the north, neither helping nor rebelling against rhaegar, while dorne will do nothing because aegon is still rhaegars heir

I wrote an entire fanfiction about this. Basically, it opens with Rhaegar rebuilding Summerhall. The main characters are Tyrion, who in this timeline is an innovitive genius. Dany, who gets held hostage by the North, and Rhaegar's kids who end up developing Rhoynar water magic from their Martell side. Ned and the Starks begin as the "bad guys" but end up doing so to try to spurn the realm into battling the rising White Walkers. It's a good read, ngl. Rhaegar actually does get killed by Robert, but gets brought back to life. Rises like a zombie and stabs Robert from the back. I don't think the war would have ended right there. Which means Lyanna probably dies before any of that Ned plot you have gets done.

The only note I really have is the army’s reaction after the death of Robert. In the og timeline the rebels were outnumbered by about 5K, I assume that because of Robert’s death and the rebels being routed at least in one flank or the center, their losses are at about 3-6K which means after the battle they have about 329K or at best 32K, compared to the Targ forces who I’d argue still suffered more losses because of how the rebels had managed paced themselves in the river, so they had 40K to start with and are now at around 32K I’d say (losing 7-8K) but as mentioned with the arrival of Walder Frey and his additional 4K to the Targs. The numbers after the immediate aftermath of the battle are roughly 30K rebels vs 36K Loyalists, sort of similar to the number difference before the battle, however now the Stormland lords are the biggest issue, the ones who had sided against Robert will most likely flee to their Holdings or seek pardons, the Die hard lords should most likely try and lift the wife of storms end to save Stannis and Renly. Which means the rebels are like going to lose anywhere between 4-9K men do to the Stormlnaders panicking, keep in mind these numbers made sense since Ned only came down with a little over or slightly under 10K men, since as we see with Robb in the main story it takes long for the north to mobilize, Jon Arryn likely has the largest contingent, probably around 12K after the battle of the trident, and Hoster Tully famously did not have the entire Roverlands with him during this rebellion so he probably has the lowest numbers out of all the lords, especially since many riverlands Lirds will also most likely be seeking pardons by this point. So in short yes the army is crumbling and smaller than it was, but I don’t see any possible way the remaining lords don’t fight to the death, otherwise they’d all be dealt with by Aerys and that’s a fate worse than death.

So basically, Rhaegar would have LOTS of cleaning up to do, and mistakes to amend for. Yeah, Rhaegar winning would've led to quite something 😅 I still feel the whole Rhaegar/Lyanna BS really was handled extremely poorly from every angle. In what universe did they think this would've worked wonders without a hitch? Absolute morons

(Reads title) ah, one of my fav Crusader Kings’ A Game of Thrones timelines

Ok I like Jaharys for Jon, but Valerion? Best name I’ve heard so far. Well done 👏🏻

I really enjoyed this one!

19:30 There is a theory(I think it was In Deep Geek) that the reason Rhaegar spent the first part of the Rebellion in Dorne was to negotiate with Doran for an annulment to Elia so he could marry Lyanna. Doran agrees as long as both of his grandchildren have primacy over Rhaegar's child with Lyanna

If Rhaegar would have defeated Robert a cool nickname for him would be Rhaegar Demon slayer.

Robb & Daenerys, Aegon & Sansa, Valerion/Jon & Margaery Tyrel, Rhaenys & Jamie, Viserys & one of Oberyn's legitimized daughters. Rhaegar remarries Ellia. Name Oberyn as the Gold Cloak Commander. This strengthens the ties to the North, reinforces the ties to Dorne, provides influence & favor in the Reach, Westerlands, Dorne, and North for Targaryen families. Need to figure out a way to bring Stannis and the Vale back into the fold. Name Jon Arryn Warden of the East, Tywin - West, Ned - North, Mace Tyrell - South. Name Stannis Lord Paramount of Storm's End and Master of Laws on the small council.

I'd also wonder whom Rhaegar would pick for Aegon and Rhaenys, since they are alive, and he really needs to stabilize the realm. Or Viserys, since he'd reach marrying age sooner than them.

I have one question WHO married Cersei in this time line I think that Is interesting I personaly think the best marridge posibility in Tywins eyes Is Stannis and that Is, oh god ,somethik very interesting Please comment

Man can’t wait for what if Ned lived or what if Robert lived Or even better what if Jon Arryn lived

Rhaegar did not "seemingly" kidnap Lyanna. A kidnapping charge does not evaporate if the underage child voluntarily gets in the van! Lyanna was 16 when she died, and the war between the rebels and royals lasted for a year, with considerable time passing between Lyanna being taken by Rhaegar, and the outbreak of the fighting. First Lyanna disappeared. Then Brandon found out she was taken by Rhaegar, so he rode from the Riverlands to Kingslanding, where he was imprisoned and his father summoned to court. Rickard made the long journey from Winterfell, and was murdered along with Brandon, Aerys sent word to the Eyrie demanding the murder of Robert and Ned, and Jon refused, and rebelled, summoning his vassals and troops to fight, which began with Gulltown, where the lord in charge refused Jon's summons and sided with the crown. There would have been talks and negotiations, attempting to get him back on side, before they assaulted the city. And then, there is a year of fighting, culminating in the sack of Kings Landing and the murder of the royal family, after which Ned rode south to Storm's End (and as we see in aCoK), moving an army that distance takes some time, and Ned is specifically contrasted with people who rush headlong into action. After Storm's End was relieved, he then rode to Dorne, almost certainly stopping at Starfall, to learn where Lyanna was being held (Jon was nursed by a retainer of House Dayne, and Arthur Dayne's siblings would be the most likely to know where in the mountains of Dorne he was hiding out with a pregnant woman). Only after all this had transpired, did Lyanna die with Ned at her side, at age 16. The long and short is, Lyanna was WELL below the age of consent when she went with Rhaegar. Rhaegar DID kidnap Lyanna, regardless of how willing she was.

If Lyanna was kidnapped by Rhaegar then she has my full sympathies, but if she went with Rhaegar willingly then she is a fucking hypocrite for judging Robert for having bastards then she turns around and runs away with another womans man and has a bastard of her own. PS: Rhaegar can not have two wives the targeryans are not allowed, they can marry siblings but not have two wives, so jon would still be a bastard.

A group of my friends are running a GURPs RPG in an Alternate GOT Universes where this happens. We have a full write up on how things would of changed. The idea of this is interesting.

What if Jace and Luke were born girls and married Aegon and Aemond?

25:30 also rickard stark married his first cousin lyarra

I need this prequel TV show now w vid ✊🏿✊🏿✊🏿

with rhaegar being king I don't think he would be a great king like daeron II, I see him being an above average king, and i think ned should be the hand to reduce tension between the north and the throne, i think this is one of the best what if´s that you made

People center too much on Robert's wrath. But what about Ned's wrath? The king and his court killed his father and older brother. Rhaegar, an adult kidnapped his 15 yo sister and impregnated her. Don't underestimate his wrath. There is no reality in which Ned wouldn't take the place of Robert if Robert died on the Trident. The only difference is that Ned would be a better king.

I can’t help but hear “Aeg! Aeg! Mother is looking for you!” (😢 I adored Maester Aemon Targaryen)

The only way that the Targaryens could have won the rebellion would be to create chaos within the rebel ranks. It is really astounding that there isn't any single Northern house that remained loyal to the Targaryens, so in a way the only house that I can think that would be a suitable ruler of the North for the Targaryens would be House Bolton. For the Riverlands, it would be a tossup between the Whents and Freys, and it's this kind of rebellion where a Red Wedding like scenario would happen that will not look like treachery. Another thing too in this case can be what I'd call a boldest pro-gamer move, would be for Tywin to engineer a match between Cersei and Roose Bolton, if the latter hasn't married already. Having a pro-Targaryen Northern house with marital ties to the Westerlands would be enormously beneficial to the Crown

When is part 2 with the bronze dragon Maegor.

Westeros without dragons means one thing, the Wall won't be destroyed that easily, and the Battle of the Wall would be a great scene...

I'd love to see what if Jon Aryn or Ned Stark had successfully exposed Cerci and Jamie's incest.

Part 2 we need it

What if Dany and Jon still fall in love in this timeline? I mean they've grown up together. Would Rhaegar let them marry?

In the original story Ned goes from the trident to kings landing and then with a small delay in kings landing to the tower of joy. How could Ned go from the trident all the way north to at least moat cailin, most likely all the way to winterfell and then BACK down to the tower of joy in dorne in the same time.

I think that Rhaegars ofer to marridge Is that Aegon married Sanca and if Sanca married Jon I think that Aegon married Ariana Martel or Margery Tyrel or maybe some one from Dayne dynasty

Ned found 3 kingsguard knights guarding his sister, you forgot Oswell Whent who was in the series, while Gerold Hightower was left out

So your doing other what if scenarios besides hotd, then in that case could you make a what if video if i had a son with my first wife Ceryse Hightower after our wedding night.

ASoIaF is a world of magic and destiny. I agree with much of your coda, Lyanna's son wedding Sansa, etc. However, like bad pennies, R'hllor is going to make those dragons show up somehow.

Also, the dragons actually have a REALLY high chance of still hatching. Illyrio gave those eggs to Dany as a wedding gift...not Viserys. This was planned well in advance, as he had to aquire them. And...he was already part of a group trying to get Targaryen rule back in Westeros. So he was already a supporter, and has little reason not to. He more than likely would still attend whatever wedding Dany has and still give her the eggs, somehow accidently hatching them, if not purposely if he stumbles on info.

Sorry about the multiples... this is on a totally separate note. Regarding Elia... there's actually a widespread and very credible fan theory that Elia _did_ give her consent to Rhaegar having a legitimate child by Lyanna, and was totally ok with it. Polygamy is not foreign to either the Targaryens or the Martells... and Rhaegar was obsessed with having three children, but Elia couldn't have any more children. And her own children (both of them) would still have primary succession according to the rules of both the Rhoynish and Targaryen dynasties, so the third baby wasn't a threat to them.

I wholly disagree that the Rebellion would have died with Robert. Jon Arryn rallied the banners after Aerys demanded Ned and Robert's heads, and they were fighting to avenge Rickard and Brandon Stark and rescue Lyanna. If anything it would have been called Jon Arryn's Rebellion and Jon would probably reluctantly have to take the Throne with Ned as his Hand. I do really appreciate how you explain how Viserys (probably) wouldn't have ended up (as) crazy if his life was different

How about what if Ned never went to the tower ? What if Ned protected and watched over dany and vis ? And mybe Jon and dany also vis grew up together mybe in the north as well .

One thing that always trips me out was that once things were spinning out of control why didn't Lyanna go back and set things straight but i assume Raghar didn't let her leave

Jon(valerion) would be trained by Arthur dayne that would be interesting to see. Also Robb and Daeny would be a better match, I think, but Jon and sansa makes sense to help appease Ned

Dragon eggs get given to Faegon (the blackyre) young Griff. He coomes to Westaros with 3 dragons and the golden company. Cleans their clock!

Now I want to see this what if?… scenario in an animated series

I feel like marrying his daughter to Robb, or Dany to Robb would make more sense, and finally complete that promise Jace made in 130ac 😅 If Rhaegar had put Viserys in the faith so he didn't have a rival to deal with, and he legitimized Jon/Viserion... Then rebuilt Summerhall..and say granted it to him so he'd have land to inherit, then yeah also marrying Jon/Viserion to Sansa would then make more sense instead of to a landless youngest son.

Can you make a long night/undead battle sequel for this video? Whether it be with or without dragons. I’m sure many of us would like to know what you write. Thank you

27:10 and even with all of that dangerous mentioned he was good to her when they were younger

I think Jon’s real name would be viserys

Not even going to mention what that scumbag Rhagar said to Ser Jamie right before he left for the trident??? He clearly had big plans...plus you're wrong about Khal Raget turning out to be a good lad, he was a Joffrey the 1st long before the rebellion...Barry the bold Ser Jamie and others seen that boy wasn't right and definitely was his father's son. It's actually the main reason why Ser Barry hid his identity at first when he joined up with team dany. He wanted to be damn sure she wasn't her father's daughter and didn't show the same glaring signs that varys did

Oh boo, I love you. But you need to look at Dorn with a bit more openness. Dorn is not traditional, they may not have an issue with R taking a second wife. And Ellia may have be totally fine with it. Loving someone is NOT holding them down. ❤ I recommend reviewing In Deep Geeks reviews of this.

If it was rhaegars rebellion Lord Tywin see an opportunity to make her daughter a Queen. He joined with Aerys and tyrell army supported him. A marriage pact was occured between Cersie and Viserys. Rebellion will continue.

Pretty cool what if if I could make a few changes it would probably be that after the battle Robert dies and the Lords Eddard Stark, Jon Arryn, Hoster Tully are captured and maybe pardoned by Rhaeghar taking hostages like Edmure, Harry the heir and Benjen Stark as their all heirs to each prospective kingdom to Kingslanding Tywin Lannister and Walder Frey would throw in with Rhaeghar but I doubt he'll be received well since they did nothing the whole time... Rhaeghar marches back to Kingslanding with hostages and Robert's body to present to Aerys little did they know it's a pretext to instigate a coup taking Aerys into custody and maybe killing Varys and other Aerys supporters Stannis is slain after the news of Roberts death as Stannis is not the type of guy to kneel to anyone even if he didn’t like Robert just like in the of series he’ll fight till his last breath so I’m guessing he’ll either be killed by his men or taken into custody by Mace Tyrell… If Stannis is to survive I’m guessing house Baratheon would be punished and get removed as lords of the storm lands for trying to usurp the crown and he’ll have to hand over Renly as he would be Stannis’s heir at the time and sent to Kingslanding by Mace Tyrell. Rhaella dies in childbirth after giving birth to Daenerys on dragonstone I'm not sure if Lyanna is going to live or die if she lives she'll be an additional hostage to keep Eddard in line or try to bridge the peace between the North and the Crown if she dies Jon would be sent to live in court with his siblings at Kingslanding or Dragonstone with his uncle Viserys and aunt Daenerys Rhaeghar would be crowned king with his wife with Ellia as queen Baby Aegon will be named prince of Dragonstone and either betroved to Dany or Rhaenys Viserys would be betroved to Arianna Martell as apology and reward to the Dornish Rhaenys or Dany would be betroved to Willas Tyrell Mace Tyrells heir as a reward and a way to keep them close Rhaeghar's Small council Doran Martell may be named hand of the king if he's gout acts up Oberyn could fill in for him or Mace Tyrell Jon Connington would be master of laws or coin and named lord of the Stormlands with Renly as ward who might still be bethroved to Margery Tyrell Randall Tarly might be master of laws Lord redwine master of ships Gerold Hightower would be lord commander if he dies Rhaeghar could name Barriston Selma or his best friend Arthur Dayne I doubt Tywin would be welcomed at court he might try to betrove Cersie to Jon Connington but Jamie is definitely staying in the kingsgaurd 1 Jamie might refuse to be removed like he did in the main timeline or Rhaeghar denies Tywin as it would set a precedent for future Kingsgaurds which would be a disaster Speaking of Kingsgaurd Oberyn might join to replace his uncle William Darry might also replace his kin as well assuming they both still die in the battle of the Trident If the is a Baelons rebellion I could see Theon being raised in the north or Kingslanding or even with Jon Connington Potential conflicts that might arise Dany might hatch her cradle egg and be named heir over Aegon Or a love triangle between Dany Jon and Aegon.... Jon with the support from the North and Aegon with the support from the South Or Varys kidnaps Viserys and tries to invade Westoros through him with the golden company Or Tywin, Hoster Tully and Jon Arryn try to rebel against the crown after being snubbed from court and losing a lot of their power But I think Rhaeghar on the throne the realm would be in a much stabler position for the coming of the others and Dany and Viserys get what they've always wanted a family

Turns out very interesting

What if the First Blackfyre Rebellion succeeded? What if the assassination plot against Aegon the Conqueror and Visenya by the Dornish succeeded? What if Daeron the Young Dragon succeeded in his conquest of Dorne?

Actually it was 3 Kingsguard. Gerold Hightower, Arthur Dwayne, and Oswell Whent.

Isn't "Robert's Rebellion" a retronym? Why wouldn't Rheagar marry any of his other children to the Starks instead of the one child that is cousin to them? It would make more sense to bond Starks and Martells by marrying one of Elia's children instead. That way you can write Jon x Arya's bond as a secret Balerion x Arya "forbidden romance" instead and maybe have it echo R+L. Plus it just makes more sense to marry Sansa to the heir apparent or Robb into royalty if what you fear is that the North might try to separate.

Hard to predict the young Ned. He was much more of a hothead but was also under the tutelage of John Arryn. Also in this scenario I wonder what brother Benjin ends up doing.

Even if he hadn't annulled his prior marriage it could have been legitimate by the precedent set earlier by Aegon the conquerer having two wives.

Don’t the second sons get summerhall? Probably rebuild it if they do, can’t remember

Oddly enough i have a friend and his name is Rodney. His younger brother's name is Rodney. Both named after their father. And they are only like 2 year apart so idk what their mom was thinking. Same middle names too if i remember correctly.

Oh okay, this is a show version...of what if. I was about to say, there is a lot of information and controversy missing here lol.

Lets go finally covering beyond HoTD

stannis would not stop rebeling, killing his older brother would honorbound him to avenge his brother the head of the house. thise are older inate laws, just like how he followed robert even though he never loved him.

I do not think Rhaegar would kill Robert if roles were reversed in text.

What if Rhaynera died to infection from her wound on Driftmark

The only way for Rhaegar to win the Rebellion is that the Rebellion was his rebellion agaisnt Aerys II, and it would require him leaving Robert and Lyanna betrothal alone.

Jaime being released from his Kingsguard vows, by a king or prince regent, who also tried to set aside his marriage vows and name his bastard his heir, would utterly destroy public trust in the institutions of Westeros. He'd go down in history as Rhaegar the Oath Breaker, or The Foresworn. If Rhaegar is just going to do away with every oath, every permanent bond he finds inconvenient, how can anyone trust he will uphold the things they rely on and trust to be lasting? And Jaime would not find the City Watch an acceptable job. It's where you foist off younger sons and brothers and bastards. As in OTL, Tywin would give that job to a Lannister loyalist, but not his eldest son & heir. That's a position for Gerion, or Stafford or one of the Marbrand cousins. If he keeps Jaime at court, it's going to be on the Small Council. Much more likely is that Jaime is sent back to Casterly Rock to govern the West. The idea that ANY of Aerys Kingsguard are true and noble knights is a joke, and completely at odds with the message and themes of the story, which is that a family, title or skill at arms are the not true measure of a knight's honor, but how he keeps his vows. Arthur Dayne suppressed commoners who resisted the Targaryen tyranny, and he faithfully guarded a madman, doing nothing to intervene when Aerys tortured nobles to death, killed people without trials, proclaimed men guilty in absentia for the crimes of their families, and sexually assaulted and abused his wife. He did nothing when Aerys murdered servants and retainers for imagined crimes, and he cooperated with Rhaegar taking a 14 or 15 year old girl away from her family, locking her in a hidden tower and having sex with her until she got pregnant, and he kept that girl imprisoned in her tower, resisting to the death letting her brother come to her. Arthur Daye, Gerold Hightower Jon Darry, Lewyn Martell and Oswell Whent are pieces of shit who fail to match even the minimum moral standards of Jaime "Sister-Fucker" Lannister. He chucks children from tower windows and is STILL possessed of a stronger conscience than his brothers of the Kingsguard.

Yes the citadel had documents to prove the marriage happened. It was in the show.

robert's love for lyanna is great in show, the way he speaks of her. but in the books, he had at least one bastard in that time, so so he love her so much that slept with other woman and fathered a child. so my theory is she found out about that, got offended and chose rhaegar.

I love how the answer is just “hide in the north” so you’re taking a vale, northern, and river land army into the north? Btw it’s summer but you gonna feed that army? The north had already been stripped of men to fight? Also I love how that means Jon Arryn is just chill with letting go of the erie? The tullys letting go of river run? Even temporarily that would have never happened these are ancient houses! The frays just give up there bridge and what live in a temporary castle in the north? Unrealistic that’s all I mean.

There's no way the rebels retreat all the way to the North. That would be putting way too much of their source of strength behind enemy lines, and furthermore, remove them further from their new king, Stannis. Robert dying does not shatter the rebel cause, because he has two heirs. This was not about a crown for Robert, it was because the Targaryens had to go. Acclaiming Robert as king, means that when he dies, they switch allegiance to Stannis. Ned had the support of a united North, Hoster was deft enough to keep the Blackwoods and Brackens fighting on the same team for the first time in an open civil war in Westeros. I doubt they are going to let their coalition fall apart just because one guy is dead. And with Stannis as their new king, they have his hand in marriage to offer as a political plum. Tywin is NOT a default Targaryen loyalist. Tywin is, and always was, about himself and his ambitions. He does not suffer slights any longer than he has to, and will look for vicious revenge opportunities years later. The Sack of Kings Landing was completely unnecessary, and unjustified by the rules of war, since the gates had been opened to him (sacking is usually seen as permissible when the city is taken by storm - that was the threat used to induce cities to surrender, that otherwise, a sack was on the table), and looks like it was actually revenge on Tywin's part for their failure to appreciate him when he was Hand. Anyway, he is not going to be thrilled with Aerys. For the longest time, he was holding out for his goal of marrying Cersei to the royal heir and governing the realm through his son--in-law, and/or as regent for his grandson. He's not jumping to Rhaegar without some assurances of support, and Rhaeger is way too arrogant to placate anyone, especially after he is riding high following a military victory. He would not, and could not, make the necessary concession to Tywin to get him on-side right away. But the rebels can offer a marriage to King Stannis, and Tywin can argue for more and better rewards than he got in OTL, if they need his support to rally after a defeat. There is also the question of just how hard the Tyrells are going to fight for a king with a Martell wife. As it was, they didn't exactly rush to the front line in the OTL, being content to hang around partying outside Storm's End, so they could say they were helping. The Reach has always been fractious, being divided in every civil war since the Tyrells took over. Mace probably kept them together by not asking too much of them, and holding feasts for his lords and knights during the siege as much to keep them cooperative as to psychologically attack the defenders. Stannis would not bow out. He would not take the risk of kneeling to a king who murdered a lord and heir without a trial, after he himself had resisted the royal forces for a year. Stannis had every reason to believe his head would be next. Also, the rebels acclaiming Robert and thus making Stannis his heir, puts him in a tough spot, just as Robb was committed to fighting for his crown when he was acclaimed. Refusing it destroys the acclaimed king's political credibility, because he is leaving everyone who stood up for him in the lurch as a traitor. By abandoning the cause of his brother, Stannis is hanging all the men who fought for them, and the allies who marched under Robert, out to dry. And Stannis does not give up on a cause he embraces enough to fight for. If he did not believe in Robert's cause and Robert's right, he would have fought for Aerys. He fought for Robert, because of his loyalties and his belief in the cause, neither of which goes away because Robert was dead. Even if you believe the worst of Stannis, that he is driven by selfish ambition, why would he desert the cause when he is now that cause's rightful king and he has a chance at the crown? It would have made FAR more sense for Stannis to bend the knee after the Blackwater, then after the death of Robert, but he fought on. If Stannis can't stand Robert, well, Robert's death removes the person he dislikes the most. Now the cause is better, because the company is better.

I really have a hard time buying the idea that Lyana was a complete surprise to Elia. They talked about how he needed a third child after she was no longer capable of safely having children. She did not seem surprised or offended at the Tourney of Harrenhall, when she was not crown3d the queen of love and beauty. Dorne is also culturally fine with polyamory. As long as Aegon was still the heir (whom Rhaegar believed to be the prince that was promised, not "Jon"), they would likely have worked something out in advance. I suspect she and Ashara Dayne had a much more active role in the events that transpired.

What if lyanna stark lived

The only way Rhaegar wins is if he takes Arthur Dayne with him to the Trident. Rhaegar lives, Dayne and Robert kill each other in the greatest 1 v 1 in the history of the 7 Kingdoms.

Okay, I’m gonna try this, y’all tell me what you think: Viserys- pledged to Lyssa Tully or Cersei Lannister Daenerys - pledged to Robb Stark or Renly Baratheon (I like the idea of Robb better) Aegon - pledged Margaery Tyrell Rhaenys - pledged to Renly Baratheon Baby V - maybe Sansa Stark Or Aegon could be pledged to Sansa and Jon to Margaery. Not doing anyone younger because there could be more children - like if Viserys and Lyssa had children. Oh could you image those nightmare children.

i think jon's name would be some male variation of the name visenya because rhaegar already had his aegon and rhaenys

So either way my boy John Snow is going to get with a red head

You know another what if I think about is: What if Cersei married Rhaegar instead of Elia

Shoutout to Stannis, he really had his brothers back even if he didnt love him. Chose his brother over the King.

Why would Lyanna ask Ned to come meet Rhaegar? What on earth makes you think that she was still on Team Rhaegar? Why was she being held in a tower under guard if she was still willing to side with the man who took arms against her family, who did nothing against the king who murdered her father & brother? He request to be buried beside them pretty clearly speaks to where Lyanna's loyalties lay. As does the fact that she was a prisoner when Ned found them. Lyanna would be telling Rhaegar "If you want to meet with my brother, go to him, kneel at his feet and beg his pardon for the MURDER of our father and brother! Otherwise, get fucked, I'm not writing your stupid letter."