Covert Narcs are the most deadly… because they ARE both malicious and broken. Because a truly caring person sees the brokenness and dismisses the malice. And it’s literal poison of the most cruel kind.

Indeed. Hanging around a women’s group where we could talk freely, we began to realize the BPD diagnosis was looking too close to ye old hysteria. And now I’m watching actual narcissists apply the label and wear it well. This arena needs the clouds parted and some light to bring clarity.

Another Bait and Switch is asking to be more emotionally available and vulnerable and then use it against you.

I’ve lived with a narcissist for 44 years and he tried to make me believe that I have borderline personality disorder and I bought into it. I believe I have Complex post traumatic stress disorder!

Victim state is so prominent. I was in a codependency group. I realized I needed to move on, almost every member was stuck, comfortable and needing to exist permanently in a victim role. Sadly, no one wanted to even try to recover and grow. Best wishes for a healthy life. Peace

I was diagnosed BPD in my early twenties after my mother pushed it HARD so me saying “that’s what makes you like you are”. In reality I now think that I have CPTSD from being emotionally dismissed and neglected and gaslighted through my ENTIRE childhood and that my mother is at least mildly narcissistic herself.

I agree with what you are saying here. And I agree that “emotionally disregulated” is a great way to define it. I feel all the “personality disorders” are all just results of being traumatized. Deal with the trauma, you heal. Don’t deal with the trauma, it turns into narcissism. That’s my theory.

I just escaped a psycho BPD abusive husband after 42 years of hell, womens aid have put me in a lovely country hotel till they find me accommodation, first time in decades I feel safe and happy, Richard Grannon you set me free, thanks so much.

Yeah, a lot of women are misdiagnosed BPD, I nearly was when I clearly had PTSD from a known traumatic event. Some doctors just want a zebra instead of the standard donkey 🤷‍♀️

Years ago, being (mis)treated for depression, I was also diagnosed with BPD, but subsequent professionals have claimed I don't have BPD. More recently, I personally identify more closely with CPTSD and Developmental Trauma Disorder (DTD), and I undestand that often people with Complex PTSD are misdiagnosed with BPD. I really found your perspetive compelling wrt trauma, so thanks for offering it. I just finished the book "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk, and found it amazingly insightful, where you are both offering fresh new insights into trauma, and past misdiagnoses.

I call my 'fragile narcissist' an 'insecure, vindictive narcissist' and even that doesn't go close to describing their toxic ways. Their insecurities drive them to attack their victims in the most viscous way they will ever experience. Pure evil! They destroy families, businesses and social groups.

I now agree after listening to sam vaknin there is a lap over with passive agressive and fragile narcissam, As a fellow in recovery I can see my own fragile narcissam kicking in as I am going through my own recovery. I feel its compensatory and part of recovery, Loved this . Great content

Thank you! I’m the ptsd one and it hurt me to think it was all my own head. No, it was because I was being abused. And all I knew how to do was lash out hoping something would give because leaving this situation made me fear for my safety. And of course he’s super charming so I couldn’t get help without looking like I’m shitstarting. Seriously I feel like borderline is a term abusers created to make their victims look crazy. Classic “lock up the emotionally fragile wife” from ages past.

“...look like th’ innocent flower, but be the serpent under’t." MacBeth. Thank you for this video. A lot of good info and it's validating to what I have long thought. 👍👍👍

The fragile narcissism concept you outline here solves every riddle I've puzzled over trying to reconcile a year of deep diving BPD with the person who motivated my study. THANK YOU.

I agree.. it’s a trauma spectrum, .. from DID to CPTSD..and it is an outdated diagnosis…it is a dysfunctional response to early complex trauma. my close friend has a diagnosis of cptsd, mine is ptsd and BPD.. yet our symptoms are so similar. I get extremely stigmatised, amd she has a completely different experience with professionals. I’m 50 now, and I am so tired of being written off as attention seeking, and refused help with my complex trauma. My BPD traits have changed dramatically as I got older… eg self harm, interpersonal turbulence, suicidal ideation.drugs, alcohol. Etc, .. what is left is still an inability to deal with stress, and internalising it, but mostly feeling harrowed and haunted by my traumas. What’s awful in the UK now is that BPD services are being dismantled.. I’ve been part of a day community for 5 years, it was meant to be lifelong membership. It polished up my interpersonal skills so much, amd gave me a sense of security and community. But it is currently being dismantled, as are all of the, throughout the UK. The strange thing was that the ethos was that they didn’t deal with trauma at all.. even though all of us are chronically wounded and traumatised. Trauma was the elephant in the room. the healing came from the member interactions, not necessarily the workers.some were really helpful,.. some were fragile narcissistic…but the community was so therapeutic. This change in system is going to push us all back into isolation,..Once you are labelled with BPD, it’s like being blacklisted for the rest of your life… BPD is such an outdated diagnosis, reminiscent of ‘hysteria’ diagnosing of women in the past. I don’t like the new term either, emotionally unstable personality disorder either, as they might as well rename it hysterical woman syndrome. I’m particularly sensitive to being stigmatised because this diagnosis almost killed me 10 years ago.. my bowel perforated but because I had been in hospital with ods in the past, they misconstrued my medical crisis as attention seeking, and refused to scan me, and tried to discharge me.. I got so I’ll they finally realised 5 days later and I ended up in a coma fighting for my life with septic shock..and resulted in life changing physical injuries and more layers of PTSD.. all because of stigma and misconceptions of BPD label… it sucks to be tarred with the same brush of being emotionally dangerous, manipulating ,attention seeking,pathological liars.

Synchronicity! Perfectly on time. I always had questions around borderline in men. Just wondered for about a month if a friend actually had covert narcissism instead of borderline or C-PTSD. Only 5 days closer: two blow-ups on chat and a lot of confusion plus typical bait and switch. My God... only 5 days and I ran.... quietly. My 2 year deep dive into cluster B personality disorders saved me a lot of problems! Thx for your contribution to that!

Thank you so very much for this video. Upon realizing my mother was borderline, I started seeing her as a victim, even if she traumatized me as a child... She is a covert narcissist... I can now go low contact in peace... Thank you so so so very much.

I work in showbiz. Lots of folks like that in my industry. Your vids help me get my head around some of the situations I constantly find myself in with many of my somewhat unstabler colleagues.

Richard, big fan of yours, love your work. I subscribe to the Kernbergian model of BPOS (Borderline Personality Organisational Structure) which is the foundation for both NPD and BPD: They both have a BPOS and an "empty schizoid core", but in Grandiose NPD they constellate more of a personality on one side of the split. I also want to refer you to a presentation by Robert Britton in 2004 entitled "Narcissistic disorders in clinical practice": He believes that Borderlines are "thin-skinned" narcissists, and Grandiose NPD are "thick-skinned" narcissists. Kernberg said in 1971 that "Vulnerable Narcissism" would be co-morbid with BPD. In my opinion 80% of "Vulnerable Narcissists" will have BPD (that means not all BPD's are vulnerable narcissists). This is exactly what you're saying, and I agree. :D

Well, at least now I know the "Why." Part of my healing I know that I will also need to receive the "Closure" piece. (Which, is a huge struggle!) Just as much of a struggle as learning about the "Why" me? Now, the PTSD has returned. The heartache on top of having to deal with some sort of " Smear Campaign" that he has launched against me (unbeknownst to me as to why) this is all very baffling to me. Drowning now myself in a pool of total confusion- I find myself fighting for a way back to my once old life of normalcy. The emotional & financial battle scars that I wear - I hope and pray that I can one day soon forget!

I was diagnosed with both BPD and fibromyalgia. I left knowing 100% they had no idea what was wrong with me but threw some words at me. Year's later i have lupus and battered woman's syndrome and PTSD. I always had those things just had shit insurance and crappy doctors!

So now we definitely need a video on fragile narcissists please 🤯🥶 they’re so fucking draining and you can’t possibly get rid of them

As a child of a BPD type and granddaughter of a Narcissist, my hope is for the MH community at large to understand the subtlety of these types better. It’s so difficult to deal with when you’re up close and it’s so painful to have a mother/close family member struggling with these traits. It never goes away. There’s so much pain and denial. It’s just as damaging, but maybe not as acutely dangerous, as living with an alcoholic. And we’re often left without having a name for it, which is so invalidating and confusing. So while I hope for a better understanding/more nuanced diagnosis, being able to at least say “BPD type” has saved my sanity a little. It took me 30 years to be able to see the patterns fully and start to extract myself from trying to help when no amount of helping is going to be effective. And now I feel like I don’t have a mom or never did because there is such a lack of sense of self in that person and that is so painful to sit in. It always comes down to a cry about her own mother, while simultaneously saying she isn’t still affected by her childhood -_- I have tried non-engagement and validation, but there is an endless ability/need for my mother to be able to instigate a mini breakdown and endless speeches about how everyone hates her/no she hates herself/no, she’s strong and wonderful it just the world that gets her down/no, she understands there’s something wrong with her/no, it isn’t that it’s this.... on and on and on no matter what you say or agree with or validate or offer help for. The need to have these moments of expression is so great. It’s an emotional rollercoaster that takes the place of healthy dialogue. Emotions come out one way or another! Dragging them out of the water metaphor resonates so hard. My mother tells me “you’re so amazing you have so much insight I love talking with you,” and then she’s hyperventilating telling me she doesn’t know what’s up or down or who she is or why everyone thinks she’s crazy. It’s gotten so bad she’s called me evil. She takes terms like gaslighting and applies them to me trying to make sense of how to help her/how to co-exist with her mixed messages and remain in my own integrity. Honestly the bait and switch is something I should have caught on to a long time ago it’s caused me so much grief and distraction from my own life. She’s used me as emotional fodder since I was young and she definitely knows that which causes her more denial and pain. Lately she has been owning up to some of her actions but that triggers periods of even stronger denial. The last few years have been so rough, its getting worse with age. I think the pressure of the fantasy that if things changed/if she had a better husband etc, she would be happy, gets disillusioned as time goes on and she’s not handling that well. Having just admitted to needing therapy, my hope is that she can find someone who understands CPTSD and trauma. I want a mom, a healthy content mom. Seems like an impossibility.

My now retired doctor says that it’s diagnosed when the therapist dn truly understand the patient. He said it’s a garbage dump diagnoses.

Actually studying psychology and I already feel so discouraged by the thick layer of bullshit and strong focus on pretending to be science..

What a wonderful pod cast! So real, something to ponder and investigate! Love your realness,as always enlightening on the Nuances! You’ve been through such an challenging time, and I know from my small experience how challenging the boundaries can at times be so soul destroying and how people feed or take so much, but there are people out there that value your truth, and want to explore what makes us who we are, and the growth that needs to happen. I hope you keep doing it even though it is I know costing yourself and your energy! Happiness today on the beach in Norfolk with my two beautiful cockers chasing ball and other dogs joining in the joy de vie! After 30 years and healing still from my NPd ex, (not just me but two therapist) the amazing JOY and fun in this moment is more intoxicating than him and his career and money! Thank you, very funny and intelligent man!

Absolutely Billiant!! One of your best youtube posts ever!!! I'm extremely thankful....dealing w/bait & switch person and I couldn't pin point why conversations were so perplexing. I truly appreciate your insight immensely!! Thank you,thank you,thank you!!!🙏

Your long videos have kept me entertained since 2016 - the longer the better! I garden, drive, cook, edit and chuckle along with you at your silliness and you cracking yourself up with your own jokes

BRILLIANT! Probably your best video. Looking forward to be continued… THANK You Richard 👍

“Thank you” doesn’t even begin to communicate the gratitude and appreciation. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Dude! This is the best thing you've come out with in a good while and it makes so much sense. Since beginning to learn about personality disorders and CPTSD, re-thinking about the various people I've encountered, and also myself, this ties it all together extremely well.

When someone is lost and they don’t want to be found - don’t waste your time, be brave and walk away 💃

Hey Richard. Thank you for being you. Thank you for you're desire to work on yourself and then go on to help others. You're awesome. So glad I found you....CPTSD here. Hello from Tasmania.

Omg, you just explained an ex friend I had. I struggled to fit her in to the more obvious narcissistic behaviours I could easily identify (after many years of being blind to it). I had actually wondered if she might be bpd as there was always a victim mentality, and emotional manipulation. So you totally nailed the description of this manifestation.

Wow, Richard. You describe these types so well. Thank you for this clarification. I agree 100% with your take on the subject, due to personal experience. 👌🏽

This is a great reminder Richard... love you 💕 I was given this diagnosis years ago .. I hear you Richard and I think you are more than correct xxx

Excellent, excellent content. As the child of a woman who was diagnosed with BPD by more than one psychologist, this reframing makes so much sense and seems a far more robust approach to understanding (and sometimes treating) the disorder. Thank you so much!

Salute to you sir!!!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it any better!!! Thank you for standing and stepping forward to SAY IT!!

There was a difference I’ve been attuned to, and you put it your finger on it. Thanks as it was tremendously relieving as I easily introspect and can self gaslight. That’s not good for healing as I think it’s only carrying my ex relationship in my head with me. Good, I can let that go. Peace ☮️ people.

Yes, ditch the BPD. Extreme trauma / PTSD is really the acute issue. And the box checking crap is not great. It causes the doc's to play tic tac toe with the boxes. Misdiagnosis is deadly. I almost died from their crap.

I'm dealing with one of these fragile psychopathic narcissists in court soon, who is my ex. She told blatant lies and used pity play in the last hearing. Do you think the legal system is switched on to these fragile narcissists? I think it should be mandatory for the legal system to be fully aware of these cluster B types

THANK YOU for addressing this terminology!

It must definitely is fake! Thank you for your endless fight to open our eyes to the quackery of psychiatry! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

You are Brilliant, Richard Grannon ! I get it ! Thank you for sharing & thank you for caring. God bless you, Dear Man. ➕ ♥

Hoping to read your new book tonight. Was scrolling through your videos and came across this one. Wow did you describe my ex perfectly. Dangerous and always waiting to zing me when I least expected it. Kept me off kilter for years. Was diagnosed BPD. He is in love with his victimhood. You helped me at the Tampa seminar in 2017 and I walked away after that but at times kept getting drawn back in. This video is more specific and easier to mentally process. Thank you for continuing to offer insight that is so helpful to those of us who have been so confused by these behaviors.

Very insightful as always. Thank you. I certainly do want Freedom from abuse. And you have helped me immensely. 🙏💖

Drowning person is best analogy for covert narcs, they actually hate you for trying to save them and they want so badly to drag you under too instead.

This is very helpful and very comprehensible and much recognizable video you've made. I'm 43 and since 24 I'm recovering and reprogramming and deprogramming from covert narcissistic abuse by my father I have only ome faint memory of my mother cause of she passed right before tree years of age, first from my forter mother from age two to six which is also covert narcissist. And know I'm regularly searching for some helpful for my disorderness, I know now for sure that I have or I'm a 'aspd-covert bpd' I've finally have name for what I am or what I have, while I've watched prof. Sam Vaknin yesterday. But only had use my fist once as a child and only few time in a physical confrontation in my teenage. I remember in my childhood when been angered I've learned not to react but let my anger explode in me when it happens I remembered my ears suddenly rings and simultaneously dizzy,I don't want to go into details on this comment section. When I want to truly know somethings I couldn't help myself go deeply into researching tell completely comprehend for what I want to know. I've been watching some of your videos, prof. Sam's videos, and a lot of dr. Les Carter's videos, and Doctor Ramani's videos which all of you are greatly helpful for my emotionally and mentally 'self healing' process. I've been go through many times treatments and therapies. I've normally don't commenting for what I've had watched. Thank you for your much comprehensive videos.

Just over a year ago, I permanently 'vanished' from my last remaining family, a brother and sister. I moved 2500 miles away without a trace. I always saw the crystal-clear patterns of narcissism in both (not sure and don't care which type in brother, he has traits of all types). My sister has distinctive fragile narcissism traits, and is unbelievably abusive and off the rails. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, and I 100% agree with your assessment that she's just a fragile narcissist. Manipulative, abusive, twisted crazy-making, most impressive VICTIM in the world, always left me confused, exhausted and bewildered with every encounter (before I embraced 'gray-rock', and later 'disappearance' method). Extreme anger and wildly emotional, attempted hoovering, always bragging about how her life is the most horrible on earth, but getting angry with any solutions or suggestions. Physically abusive, slandering, no regards to anyone elses comfort or wellbeing. I've washed my hands of it all, and have actually forgotten most of the trauma, so therefore don't need to analyze them any further (part of my own healing). But with what I do remember about them, you are 100% spot on. I feel I am very much healed from the lifelong situation, and just happened to stumble upon your video (subscriber, but I've basically distanced myself from the 'N' topic). Feel so much more free now! You're right on, my friend!

Macbeth, Act 1 Scene 5, Lady Macbeth to Macbeth. "Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it."

Tried and tested in my field of multiple and complex needs. I've seen more light bulb moments and sustained change from sitting with adults and watching your Fortress Mental Heath Protection system than any mainstream mental health input. Bonus is your not on a waiting list and cannot get discharged. Most I meet have had a negative experience of mainstream MH and this often causes a distrust of getting any professionals involved. I also have many conversations with other agency workers about not taking a person's emotional dysregulation outburst personally in order to build back relationships. The more we understand the core of complex Ptsd the better we become at holistically healing those affected by it, and I include myself in that regard. Much respect for your continued insights, they do indeed make a daily difference 👍

OH BOY - You seem to hit the nail on the head once again, Richard. I recognize what you say about abandonment anxiety not necessarily posing a big issue. The people that I believe to be on the spectrum ALL show serious emotional dysregulation due to a hyperactive, harsh and brutal inner critic. They try VERY hard to fend off CLEAR signs of their chronic sense of inferiority. They do this by desperate and appalling attempts to intensely shame and humiliate other people. It is nauseating to witness how these toxic types demean others in an attempt to elevate themselves. Or to cause great harm or pain as a remedy for their sick and corrupt ego. I totally agree with what you say about how they are ADDICTED to inflict pain and trick the people around them. This really is very SICK shit. I'm not so sure about them not being aware of this behaviour, though. The jury is still out on that one. The addictive element is very real. The maladaptive behaviour does seem to have a level of desperation in it. There's a frantic and jittery quality about it. At times, they can 'feel' like someone in need of a fix of heroin or crack.

Wow, this was really potent. I made a human with a BPD (she was in Tx when we met, graduated herself and all hell broke loose) - and I have met people who have this diagnosis and they seem like decent humans, albeit emotionally labile. There really is a difference and I feel like your work over so many years on this arena, has led to a very crucial, and hopefully useful on a widespread basis, distinction. Appreciate your openness about what you "could have been" diagnosed with in your 20's too - it matters that so much of these behaviors are often situational, and stress overwhelm responses (in normal humans). But, SO MANY have C-PTSD in this day and age, and MOST do not feel entitled thereafter to ruin and step on people's lives, cause chaos, drama and pain, just for the sake of it. Basically, if you still have ANY kind of a moral compass and gut knowing of right from wrong/empathy, I don't feel you should qualify for a Cluster B diagnosis. Evil is evil, and "hurt people hurt people" is a shitty catchphrase to medicalize and destigmatize psychopathic behavior. Most hurt people DO NOT choose to later go out and take out their pain, frustration and rage on innocent bystanders.

I think your assessment is quite good. The point you made about ‘Empaths’ is also valid. For one, I just don’t think that people described under the label ‘Empaths’ (or ‘Super Empaths)’ would go around boasting that they are ‘Empaths’ ... most likely these self-anointed individuals are just deeply wounded folks trying to justify their position or make themselves feel good about hating Narcissist but I also do suspect that some of them may very well be the ‘sheep in wolves clothing’ (aka Covert Narcissist) ... no way of telling on the internet - covert narcs love the anonymity, distance and psychological hideouts offered by the internet as well as the opportunity they get to enjoy being the chameleons that they are. Sometimes I really wish I never learnt about their existence. My life was fine without knowing that such Evil people existed around me and my family. They leave a horrible taste in your mouth (figuratively speaking) and you’ll be rinsing your mouth for a long time trying to get that taste out of your mouth.

I have said the same about Bipolar. I think it’s a spectrum of anxiety and bipolar is on the extreme side once sleep is gone. Anyone will get psychotic without sleep. Insomnia is common with anxiety etc. So labels are definitely hmmm when you analyze. People need to sleep and that can be proactively helped so mania or psychosis is not a cycle.

I appreciate this video and think it clarified things so well. Thank you. I’m divorcing a fragile narcissist. Even after identifying this in him, I have found myself wondering if he is a fragile narcissist or a psychopath. Recently I have wondered whether he’s a fragile narcissist or someone with borderline personality disorder. I’ve also wondered about where multiple family members of origin land on the very fuzzy spectrum of fragile narcissism, borderline, and C-PTSD. I’m trying to heal, and have researched this for two years, and was getting flustered by the confusion and overlap. I, too, think terms need updating for simplification and clarity. Thank you for doing this video. I learned that you have a C-PTSD channel (thank you! I look forward to learning from your no-nonsense self), and concur with everything you said on this video. Please don’t feel the need to apologize for the length of your videos. The information you put out is valuable, and worth the time. I find you to be detailed, concise, and funny (much needed in so many traumatized lives). Thank you!

I’m so glad that you are talking about BPD. I find that there is not a lot of information on KZfaq about this disorder, and whatever there is out there , do not get into the subject in depth.

This video just changed my life! Thank you SO much!!!!

The group on Richard's right hand basically describes the group who have caused me the most harm over my lifetime, which includes my mother. As someone who is on the autistic spectrum, I fall for their shenanigans every time, only recognising the abuse when it is too late.

So articulate, brilliant as always, always enjoy listening to you x

This is fascinating @Richard Grannon - I think it boils down to borderline as a secondary psychopath. I like your theory for sure and can see how you arrived at it. Thanks for your content, good sir!

Oh wow. I LOVE how you explained the inner and outer critic. They are both ran by the same dysfunctional superego motor, which was broken by trauma, it’s a warped sense of morality, one aimed outward at others and the other targets the self. Very great explanation, in summary, not word for word. You’re so smart Richard 🤩

You are so spot on in this video, you couldn't of articulated it better.

I agree. When I dig deeper into any matter that pple come to me with, we come back to the beginning: C-PTSD/R i.e. narc-abuse. Thanks for speaking out and normalizing the Human State.

Very well explained and was there all the way through that, I always wondered about misdiagnoses of BDP as an addict for example can have the traits but a cleaned up one not. Great stuff

I was never convinced by the distinction between NPD and BPD given my experiences of my ex. But 24:04 on, that's her.

Excellent. You are sharper than Sam Vaknin (which I also like). One observation which I have is that a person can gradually move from the CPTSD camp to become a full blown Fragile Narcissist/Psychopath. Great if you could discuss this transition also. From my experience this can absolutely happen. Totally agree that BDP is out of date as a diagnosis. My theory is that has something to do with that it sounds better than Fragile Narcissist/Psychopat diagnosis. Great channel you have!

After dealing with someone who ticks so many boxes, be it BPD, or Fragile Narcissism, and I am sure ticks boxes for more. They had the ability to remain even tempered, always quietly spoken, however needed to remove the word "if" from their vocabulary, "if this didn't happen," "if so and so didn't do that," they could not be wrong, and believed they were of higher IQ than most. One of the most draining person I have ever had to deal with, really made me sick to my stomach, the personification of gas lighting. Thank you Richard for your invaluable insight, information. The best thing I ever done was no contact, anything I want to say, I know matters not to them, and if I am to be completely honest, I no longer care, what does trouble me, is the destruction that lays in their wake.

I feel that society needs to understand that there is a difference between empathic and empathetic. And to challenge the “empaths” to understand that when they claim that they are an empath they are saying that they “KNOW FOR CERTAIN how/what another person feels or thinks. Being empathetic means you “can understand” why a person may feel or think a certain way. The first is narcissistic. The second is compassionate.

Please make a video about the correlation between BPD and secondary psychopathy. I would really appreciate it.

Your voice is so soothing to me i want to thank you for helping me

I've been struggling with my diagnosis of BPD, it just seemed so crazy to me. I kept hearing horror stories about these BPDs that spew outrageous lies, steal, bully and manipulate people and how people go running from them. And then I'd occasionally hear about people like me, creative, abandonment issues, STRONG inner critic, self harming, occasional lose my shit and blow up on someone if I have to much to drink. I kept thinking how can these 2 VERY different types of people be in under the same umbrella. My psychiatrist during my 1st interview with her, asked me if my therapist had diagnosed me BPD as well as CPTSD. I said no, just the BPD and the psychiatrist said she didn't see how that was possible because in her estimation I DEFINITELY have CPTSD. IDK, I'm seeing a new therapist in 2 days and I'm going to bring up the CPTSD, because from my research there is a shot I could get in my spine that will literally reset the fight or flight response, that is basically stuck in overdrive, it's basically on all the time and causing the CPTSD, this shot brings that all back down to neutral. God it would be great if that's all I really need, it a shot, because quite frankly at age 50, I'm sick of talking and talking about all the trauma and bullshit that happened in my life. Personally I'm over it, I've forgiven those that don't even deserve it, I barely think about the things that happen..... but my body and subconscious apparently don't know I'm over it.

Also....can I just say, I so so so appreciate your honesty. Thank you.

I totally agree about resenting help, I helped one and spent the next 2 years being punished for it with baiting, gaslighting, manipulation, lying and do on.

I love this distinction, and I believe it is correct. It has seemed odd to label anyone who has been traumatized, and has an excess of emotion-as a result, as personality disordered (not to confuse them, with those that indeed are). Much of the current research is about somatic release techniques to release people from freeze states, like lancing a boil, and retraining of emotion regulation and becoming more aware of one's own nervous system. It becomes an awful crime, then, to label or be labelled, adding insult to injury, if this is the case. Like, let's just heap some more shame on to traumatized people. Perhaps part of the reason for this, is our collective intolerance of pain, both ours, and others. Being a witness, requires a good amount of expertise, boundaries, and holding a safe space, and it looks like a shift is in the works, to offer a more compassionate view of human suffering, and approach to trauma, from the therapy world. Dr. Aimee at Trauma Healing Accelerated, is one practitioner who is doing amazing work in this area...you may find her work of interest. Many blessings to you and thank you for your gift of transparency.

Amazing video and yes, WHAT a film! Here's an idea for a future vid - could you talk us through different diagnoses - eg the various combinations of issue you talk about here - and demonstrate examples via characters in movies? I think that would really help lay people get a good grasp of what these labels actually look like in human beings, in personalities.. or characters in books? I would LOVE to see a series of vids like this. So many fictional characters come to mind! Anyway, thanks for your work. It's great stuff 🙏🏻

Man, man, man..I would have needed this Video somewhere between 2015 and 2017 and I wouldn´t have fallen for this "fragile disaster"... This kind of basic knowledge is so important. Thank you for the subsequent training, which should ideally have taken place parallel to sex education lessons in the teenage years..👍🏾🎯

As a BPD in recovery for 30 years (semi-recovered), it wou be more than prescient if we could all get in the same page with NPD, BPD, PTSD, CPTSD, etc. It's more than overdue. Thank you, Richard, as always.

Great video, clarified a lot of things for me. I like the term Emotional Dysregulation Disorder. It's easy to understand, and the acronym EDD is a bit like ADD, which is a thing most people are aware of and is not particularly scary.

"Beating people in micro social interactions" . Thank you.

Absolutely love these videos when I can't sleep xx

WOW! Intense & extremely prolific video.....very intense but very much appreciated! Thank you Richard for your insight into multi dimensional mental health. Many nuances aswe move thru life into & out of severe life circumstances. I don't think anyone could've addressed this issue better! Very thankful!🙏

Yes. I agree. Well explained.Also, many are fearful avoidant which is similar to BPD

HAPPY VALENTINES WEEKEND RICH..... KEEP SAFE AND BE AS COOL AS YOU ARE. BIGGEST HUGGS BROTHER 💯💯💯💯

This was so clear and so helpful. Thank you so much! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️

Yes! My ex-husband, who sent me this video BTW, I have always believed was a covert narcissist. He’s self diagnosed as BPD, but he definitely fits into the second category described. CPTSD100%. But he is 100% committed to being the biggest victim in the room every single time. Somehow even when his clients pay him more than his normal rate and ask for reasonable standards in his work he feels he is a victim. He considers me divorcing him evidence of my controlling nature because my decisions affects him. I agree 100% that borderline does not fit as well as covert or fragile narcissist. He feels “righteous indignation “over the fact that I want some kind of accountability when he has custody of our daughter, despite the fact that he has an extensive drug and alcohol abuse history and I do not. His sense of entitlement is epic. His own attorneys have commented on the fact that neither of the judges like him, and yet every time we have a hearing he lords it over me that he is going to get everything he wants in the hearing. Which he never does.

I think people with BPD don't believe their partners love them is because they know they're always changing and hiding their paranoia and intense emotions. They know that their partner fell in love with an "expression" ( Avatar) of who they are or want to be and/ or fell in love with their fluidity( unpredictability) - but not with them. The real them is lonely , scared, and emotionally suffering to the point of physical pain. I think people with BPD don't want someone who would love the real them but also don't want to be alone in their suffering and crave short bouts of intense intimacy. So there's a push/pull that happens in accordance with how they're identifying with an "expression of themselves" ( Avatar) at any given moment. They can push when they sense abandonment coming and then pull just before or after actually happens. They can push when they're trying on an "expression" ( Avatar) of someone who is independent or pull when identifying with an "expression" ( Avatar) of someone who is desirable. Their partner's response to this dynamic creates even more instability inside themselves because they're aware of how much their instability influences them which means things can fall apart at any moment. Their creativity provides both escapism and self connection. I honestly think people with BPD should just date multiple people as long as they're honest about it. This way they can get affection and closeness without the attachment/abandonment issue. If one person drops them they have others. Or just not date at all lol. Not an easy situation. Everyone deserves love but not everyone is fit for a romantic relationship . People with BPD do want help but don't trust anyone to help them. Everything they do stem from trust issues. In a clinical setting in means they believe the practitioner will quit on them before they're healed. Or they don't trust that they understand them. They also know their partner isn't qualified to "save them" so watching them try would be very painful for both parties. They're truly terrified people. It is very unfortunate no matter what the diagnosis is.

Richard, I really appreciate the attention you pay to words (like on the level of "words as hobby") You've alluded several times to words - really good words - that "we" (or maybe the DSM) don't use anymore that should be brought back. Megalomania is an excellent one. I'm a serious advocate of reviving "neurotic". As you said in another video (not verbatim) - it just really fits as a descriptor. I describe myself as fairly neurotic and think of it in a Woody Allen kind of way as just being a different way of being. (I'm autistic with developmental trauma, and attempt to put the focus on those things, as opposed to the borderline diagnosis that puts clinicians into their own neurotic/defending mode - personality disorder diagnoses, in my opinion, just tell everyone the way in which a person doesn't fit into society's mold, where "autistic" and "chronically emotionally dysregulated" were labels that actually helped me to solve my problem). Neurotic is more precise than "anxious" and more validating than "worry-warty". Megalomanic would have been much more helpful than "delusional" - especially because I'm not "delusional" on the day-to-day, I just have a high IQ and an ability to see possibilities that other people don't. I once told a psychiatrist in frustration "I'm not psychotic - I'm just smarter than you. Your lack of vision is not my delusion, sorry." Also I just really like the way the word "megalomaniacal" rolls off the tongue. A third word that I'm really glad you analyze is "narcissism" ... I have a pet theory that the world will be able to get over itself a lot quicker once the stigma around self-involvement is smudged out and people are able to see that you don't have to be a monster to look after your own interests. I don't think the epidemics of anxiety and depression we have today are going to be alleviated until people are able to embrace the idea that they live in a society that encourages individualism and in order to be successful in it, they need to be a little (or a lot) selfish about their psychological and cognitive well-being. Thank you so much for ... existing. :) Your messages are really valuable.

my theory is this, at its root is cptsd and anxiety from constant trauma, what then happens is dissociation, then the cross wiring in the brain, then bpd. Cptsd at the root and finding those lost painful memories and refacing them as an adult will take away the trauma responses and anxiety which will stop or cut the dissociation and bpd

I wonder if the future of psychology would be Be better served By ditching the DSM5. In favour of treating people through the identification of trauma experienced, trauma response and coping mechanisms used. From what I’ve seen and experienced all mental illness is Experienced and witnessed on a sliding Spectrum of trauma Experienced and reaction to trauma. The diagnosis and label of Each mental Health disorder seems to create a dead end point in treatment. Somewhat creating a separation between the traumatised person and the Need to develop healthier coping mechanisms. Ie ‘I have bdp so can not change’ rather then ‘ I am traumatised and need to identify the trauma so I am able to change my coping mechanisms.

I would love to hear a convo between you, Richard, and H.G. Tudor. You both have formulated new terms and classifications. It would be fascinating!

BPD was a differential diagnosis that was on the table before I had my autism diagnosis .I figured I had a number of borderline traits but I knew I had trauma ! alot of trauma .There was confusion between emotional dsyregulation and actual meltdowns c( in my eyes) which was obviously not recognised until I was diagnosed . I was accused of narcissm too I can see now it was my lacknof social skills because believe me I do have empathy alotbof empathy. Socially talking about your obsessions and not listening looks narcissistic .

I have cptsd and my husband I recently left I would say is a narcissist but the way you describe this wow is that him even the there will be blood quote he loves that. Understanding is key. And I felt this really opened my eyes. To myself. It's refreshing to hear months, 2 years I could actively work on this and get better. It was also refreshing to understand what have been dealing with. The guilt and pity kill me, constant victimhood.

What a great video! Thanks for sharing your opinions with us. I agree with you

"they are poisoning the well" is a great analogy for the covert Narc type and yes, mine (husband of 20 years) definitely had psychopathic traits. they don't only feel dangerous, they are. My (female) friend on the other side, with a history of child emotional and sexual abuse who was diagnosed with BPD is clearly on the "emotionally disregulated" side. I absolutely agree with your definition here of those two very different BPD-types Richard Grannon, great way to define it and fantastic work for bringing clarity into the BPD issue.

I like the growing analysis. Kris uses some other terminology that is helpful like: BPD with a narcissistic shell and 4 stages of BPD towards malignancy ( enjoying hurting others). Like Ritchie says...These descriptions are models. Great video!

I wish more people doing the diagnosing would watch this video!

The Mental Health industry doesn't want to call it trauma because the parents who messed their children up in the first place are paying the bills. But what a great video! Thanks! More! More!

Wow, it all makes sense. Thank you Richard