I'm sure they did, eventually, it was a very chaotic time.

I want to say " hindsight is 20/20" 🤷‍♂️ lol 👍 😊 ❤️

It could be that they did, but the conversation wasn't interesting enough to make it into the stories.

I think Dr Tabor really was there in a past life ❤️ I really want to believe that Dr Tabor.😊😊

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 whole reason why this event is so amazing/unbelievable 🤷‍♀️ ❤️

​@@lindabishop1402yes ! Our resident mortician confirms it was a miracle !!!😂

Imagine one comes back and the family demands refund

Few scholars believe any of the Gospels were written 120-130 years after Jesus, so I dont know where you got that from. Most scholars date Mark to the 60s or early 70s, so even if you take that dating that's 30-40 years after. Personally I think there is no reason why Mark could not have been written in the 50s. Even John, which many think was the last one to be written, was likely written in the 80s or 90s at the latest, that's 50-60 years later. Very few scholars think any of the Gospels were written in the 2nd century, particularly as we have 2nd century church fathers referring to the Gospel writings, such as Papias. You should read Richard Bauckham's book 'Jesus and the Eyewitnesses'. He's not a typical evangelical Christian writer, some would view him as 'liberal', but he is adamant the Gospels were written based on eyewitness testimony. Id recommend the 2nd ed.

The gospel of John written by the apostle John is certainly an eye witness account.

The most recent scholarship dates John around 120 CE

@@iCupTV247 not that Im aware of.

@@PC-vg8vn Now you are aware

Joseph of Arimathea wouldn't have had time. He had to get permission from (read bribe) Pilate to bury the body temporarily, organize transportation that wouldn't draw any attention, going at night from Talpiot (Arimathea?) and back. And he could have left a young man to inform the mourners of what he was doing--which message and follow on could well have been edited. Pilate would have insisted it be done at night so as not to make it appear that the body of a crucified traitor was being honored. And since Pilate was in on it, it makes the story about the sleeping Roman guards to be the fiction it probably was, being only told in Matthew.

@@mahlonmarr856 Doesn't explain why the burial party left the bloody burial shroud behind in the original tomb.

First Mark started his gospel with Mk 16:1-8 pageflip, then you would read Mk 1:1 Thus you would already observe the mirror parallels, and the three women were not latecomers to the story, but overshadow the story. So Mark uses the tomb as advertisement on page 1 of his quier of 5 folios and 20 pages. And the story answers the question what the women were afraid about (Mark drives Isis cultists into panick mode here). Of course in hindsight you would flop page 20 again a read in a circular fashion (galilee = circle, 12 instances in Mark). So there is a clash between the straight way and the circular way. Mark does idolize vanity which was just the flavour of the day. He does so by Nazareth too (it sits on a co-latitude of exactly 1 radians = universal ambition/hell). He also aludes to the Odysee which is another idolized vanity. Mark the deconvert is telling you his vanity adventure. You can decode all the reasons to his deconversion, as his story portrays more the conflicts of the church than Jesus. So what did Mark believe? Mark turned naturalist cynic. He gives one good example about what crossed his desk: Archimedes calculation of the number pi. It is encoded in the riddle of the one loaf using large and small baskets. The solutions are 22 and 7. Mark keeps his beliefs to himself but has one single outcoming when he adresses the scribes and copyists in the parable of the sower. And you can more than read his anti-authoritarian mindset, which creates Jesus in opposition to him as scribe. Yet Mark still does not advocate general literacy, which lets Mark run into his great paradox: the genius composer who depends on slave copyists yet appeals to an anti-authoritarian life. Concerning the resurrection Mark is an agnosticist.

@@mahlonmarr856 and with a little bit more imagination you could probably describe what he ate for lunch the day before, or what he gave as a gift at the birthday party he was invited to the following week. Your whole story-line breaks at the seams in more than one place, but the part about Pilate insisting the body be moved at night is particularly troubling because an unexplained empty tomb story would be counterproductive to the Jewish order that had him crucified. Since Pilate's interests would have been more centered on keeping the pesky Jewish unrest under control, purposefully orchestrating a narrative that made it look like Jesus rose from the dead when he was really being reburied elsewhere seems far fetched to say the least. And then I suppose your going to suggest that Joseph of A. secretly buried all the other people there without them knowing about it too?

None of the Gospels support Dr. Tabor's theory. Part of the problem is that the Gospels have been corrupted, and it leaves the door wide open to all sorts of speculation. Instead of counting the number of donkey's written into a forged Gospel, scholarship would be better spent if it at least tried to separate truth from fiction IMO.

Wow 👏 👌 that's really interesting

YES, That corpse of the person imaged on the Shroud HAVING GONE UP/RESURRECTED is described in the TORAH, Genesis 49:8-10 as that of God's Son, YOU ARE GONE UP", to whom shall the gathering of the people be. Genesis 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: FROM THE PREY MY SON, YOU ART GONE UP: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up? 10 The SEPTER shall not depart from Judah, nor A LAWGIVER from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. HE FULFILLS Zechariah 6:12-13, as the "counsel of peace" who bears the glory of the ruler and priest on the throne.

Nowhere near as fantastic as those invented to get people to believe--4000 years and counting. God supposedly parted the Red Sea, and then 3 weeks later they were worshipping a golden calf in the very presence of God in the pillar of cloud and fire that had saved them.

Joseph of Arimathea was exceedingly wealthy and was on the Sanhedrin, and most likely bribed Pilate, who would have insisted that Joseph move the body undercover of night. Joseph could even have been a Roman citizen, either by purchase, or by Herodian birthright, like Paul.

@@mahlonmarr856 Thanks 👍 _!_

Absolutely not true😂😂😂 they didn't care about them and had mass graves. Paul also has no empty tomb and no blood and flesh resurrection

@@leom6343 provide evidence that Jews crucified by the Romans during the 30s (ie peacetime) were either left to rot on their cross or were buried in mass graves, even where the family or Jewish authorities requested the body for burial.

Source?

@@elainafaust3717 he is just making stuff up.🤣

@@elainafaust3717 search Craig Evans Jewish Burial Traditions

Israel was conquered by the Greeks. Greek culture and mythology influenced Jewish religion and culture as a result. This influence continued under Roman rule at the time of Christ

And why would the apostles be willing to die for what they knew to be a lie?

@@Gleeb1776why Muslims are willing to die for their faith!!!

Did they spread the words that he is risen or they were scared and talked to anybody.

The application of "unguents" was delayed by the Sabbath. The women's return was at first light after the Sabbath and less than 40 hours after the burial. FYI, because the Sabbath began at sunset on Friday, the no one had time to complete the burial process.

see: Sudarium of Oviedo

It's like you weren't quite able to follow the content of the video.

As a historian, you have to have plausible scenarios. A body resurrecting is not one of them.

The ultimate tomb in Talpiot, read Arimathea, was Joseph's, and was new, but the one nearby to the crucifixion wasn't necessarily Joseph of Arimathea's.

@@derekallen4568 that is based on the assumption that either God doesnt exist, or if he does he is unable to raise the dead or chooses never to do so. It is also based on the assumption that Jesus is just another human being, like you and me (Im assuming youre not AI!)

@@PC-vg8vn if you doing engineering or medicine you can't assume the supernatural. If you design a building you don't assume a supernatural being is going to keep it up. The same with medicine or history. If the tomb is empty you can't presuppose it was a resurrection. That's the last assumption you make.

Dead for 3 days in a sealed tomb guarded by Roman centurion. Then seen alive but able to pass through walls... seen rising into the clouds, had to pass through the firmament ... A resurrected or 'glorified' body, though still physical, vibrates at a different frequency.

The Shroud was likely removed when they cleansed & anointed His body before burial, as the women planned to do on Sunday morning. Do we have contemporaneous writing that gives the location where the Shroud was found? It could have been removed at the second burial site, and kept because of its unusual image.

@@silvermoontearoom7123 Why would the remove the shroud and move the body just to then rewrap him again for the final preparation?

@@7EV1N We don't know how they did the ritual of cleansing the body & anointing it like the women planned to do on Sunday. Because it didn't seem to make sense to do the ritual at night, it could have been done in daylight at the final burial site. Apparently, the only text that mentions the shroud are the gospels. We had an interesting discussion elsewhere in this comment section. The gentleman, @jeffreyerwin, had alot of good, additional information about the shroud, including physical evidence that it was removed by a mysterious, nonmechanical means from the body. We believe the shroud is definite proof of a transformation, and we do not have the technology on this planet to recreate the image. Please find the other area of shroud discussion in these comments. We think you will find it interesting, too...

Not only that, the Shroud has no hint of spices. Thus no reburial.

Tabor ignores the fact that Friday and Saturday were holy days, thus handling dead bodies was not allowed. The women went to the tomb "before dawn" thus no opportunity for reburial. And the women would not have gone to the tomb without someone to remove the stone.

They can't even date it, or show how it was created, with any certainty. But whether it was from Jesus or not, it doesn't change the narrative James Tabor is offering here, and which I think is correct.

It's definitely not a hoax. We don't have the technology to recreate the image. The plant microscopic evidence, what csi calls "hair & fiber" places it in the geographical area. The headpiece is a perfect match that was located elsewhere, Spain?, since the 4th or 5th century. Please go to Dr. Tabor's website & read his writings on the Shroud.

@@mahlonmarr856 I get that but, it needs to follow the critical steps. Like why would the burial party wrap Jesus in the shroud and then unwrap him to take him to the second burial place to once again wrap him in his final state of decay?

@@silvermoontearoom7123 I get you but and I have read tabors breakdown on his discovery of the tomb of the shroud. My issue is trying to figure out why would the burial party wrap Jesus in the shroud, then unwrap him and leave the shroud behind when transporting the body to the final burial tomb. Dr. Tabor has only brefielfy mentioned it, but not a full on detailed look into what really went down. I would especially love to hear what he has to say about the shroud of turin as he is a expert in studying later Christian medieval practices in that period of time.

@@7EV1Nany number of reasons, the easiest being, they just wanted a fresh shroud instead of a gory bloody one. Another could be so they'd be less likely to draw any attention. And they didn't have hearses then, so moving shrouded, bodies around wouldn't have been unusual, unless the shrouds were bloody.

lol. Paul was a mystic, like Yeshu, like Cephas, like the author of the third later of John. If one was a demon possessed they all were. Was Jesus false prophecy any more true than Paul’s.

@@Darisiabgal7573 I didn't say he was demon possessed, I said Paul admitted in his own writings that he was possessed by an Angel of Satan Paul did not teach what Jesus or the apostles taught he caught his own Gospel

I guess you could call it getting them from Satan, but more likely he just made them up himself (same difference I guess), using Mithraism as a model, like for the "Lord's Supper". And I further believe Paul was the Beast of Revelation, he being a wealthy, born Roman citizen as a result of his Herodian heritage. The number of the Beast is not the anachronistic Arabic numerals, 666, but the Hebrew characters for six-hundred, sixty and six, which through Jewish Gematria decodes to Tarsus, a wealthy city at the time and the Roman center for the pagan mystical cult of Mithraism.

@@onejohn2.26. The agents of God or Satan all stem from the Divine councils of Canaan and Babylon. The first biblicals deamons were the Beliel in Jewish tradition the wicked, whose names reek of the Palmyran Bel gods, the word literally means the wicked one. The angles of Satan are the fallen ones in Christian literature. But Satan wasn’t a name god, he was the adversary, the interrogator, in the story of Job. The story of Job was just a story, it’s part of the Jewish wisdom LITERATURE you take value away from it and impart different meaning when you consider Satan to be a named god. You can find a list of named gods here on Wikipedia. List of Deities at Canaanite Religion At least two of El’s angels were angels in the Canaanite Pantheon If you examine this list closely you will find several gods of Israel Anat (Beth Anath, Shamgar of Anath - Judges, Anathoth - Isaiah, wife of YHWH - Egypt, originally Mesopotamian), Athirath (Asherah - Luz (Bethel), the 🕎 - Luz, wife of ‘El - the most high, wife of Yahweh in Edom and 9th century BCE Yehudah), Ba’al Hermon (the god of Mt. Hermon), Astarte (Ishtar), Hadad (“Ba’al” - high god in Canaanite pantheon before Mesopotamian conquest, after which El became high god, son of Dagan), Bel (like Ba’al chief god of the Palmyrans), Gad (tribe of Israel and god of the foothills of mt. Hermon), Hauron (Beth Hauran, Israel - the gateway to the underworld, the passage from the coast to the hill, a pair of settlements), Yam (Psalms , the sea god), Mot (many books, death), Qos (many texts, the Edomite name for Yahweh, originally a SW Arabian/Edomite god), Shapash (female version of Shamesh and possibly the original version at Beth Shamesh), Yarikh (Moon god, a powerful god of Jericho before the UR III conquests), Shalim (Dusk, Peace, Underworld - Salem, foundation of Shalim, Urushalim, Jerusalem) and Shahan (Dawn, a lost city in Jordan) [these two gods are the bastard sons of El that were adopted and raised by Asherah. List of Mesopotamian deities If you examine this list closely you will find several gods of Israel Ishtar (Ester, Ester, Astarte), Dumuzid (Tammuz, Ezekiel), Shamesh (Beth Shamesh), Ea (Ia, Yahu, - Judges), An-Enlil (‘El - the most high), Iskur (Hadad “Ba’al”), Dagan (Judges), Anat see above generally considered a Canaanite goddess, originally from Anah, Iraq) Demons and primordial gods - Lilitu (Lilith in the Isaiah, night demons), Wife of Absu (Tiamat - Enuma Elis: Tahom - Genesis 1), Absu (Waters beneath the earth - Genesis), Nammu (The goddess who at the instruction of Ea-Yahu made men from clay - Nammu in the Eridu tradition is considered the first goddess and mother of all the other gods), kullulu (Fish man -euhemerized into Abkallu and Jonah), Lahmu (Lahmi - the guardian of Ea -Yahu, the Apotraic figure for which Beth-Lahmi (Bethlehem) was named), Usumgallu (Glistening one, serpent, garden of Eden) What is to be understood here is that angelology and demonology did not spring into existence. The gods as you understand them begin with Absu (Swamp - Eridu - the oldest temple E-Absu - foundations are 7000 years old) and the associated sea “thm”. Both are found in Genesis. The next layer of gods are the Early sentient gods. We cannot be certain which sentient god came first, I tend to think Nammu, then Enki and Enlil followed by Anu (Erech). Anu’s priest gave celestial authority to the priesthoods of coalition cities and Innana, the mistress of heaven (Uruk) gave authority to kings via Akitu ceremony, a predecessor of Anointment. During the colonization phase Sumer runs into problems at Shuruppak (the city of the great flood, Genesis) and two major stories come forth, parts of both stories are in Genesis. Then is the Early dynastic period and the expansion of the Marian kings. This is followed by the Dynastic period, Akkad, UR III (possibly the origin of the Abrahamic colonization story in Genesis), Isin Larsa, and Babylon (probably the origin of some conquest stories in Joshua). During this period the sages of Enki either split off or were sent westward for spiritual reasons, some legendary seven, the Apkallu, returned. One so named Oannes is a pretext for the story of Jonah (Ioannes). During the Dynastic period the Canaanite gods emerge from the substrate prehistoric religion. The system was initially organized around Ebla, whose high god was Ishara, a goddess of prosperity, at this time Hadad was a god of the North. The Eblaites were the first literate Canaanite peoples, and they kept tabs on the other gods, noting that Enki/Ea was often referred to as Ia (Yah-phonecian alephbeth) in parts of Canaan. Given the correspondence with the sages we can speculate that Beth Lahmi in the middle and late Bronze Age was one of their settlements, though I think they moved to the SSE during the LBAC. During the late Bronze Age many gods just disappeared, their cities destroyed, Israel, an extrajudicial entity during the LBAC became a collective polity during the early Iron Age, At the time it was thoroughly polytheistic with its leaders also polytheistic, its in the Bible itself, the thin veil placed over these legendary figures has been unveiled by archaeological studies from Israel and Mesopotamia and the text has been recontextualized. The mosaic foundational narrative has been shown to be largely myth. There was no Exodus because Egypt occupied Canaan until 1120 BCE when they left. YH was probably a god in Israel during the Early and Middle Iron Age in the territory of Yehudah, still under the auspices of the priesthood of ‘El. During the 9th or 10th century BCE Yahweh, who had been a southwest/west Arabian god made its way into Samaria. Israel Finkelstein speculates that Ahab’s son Nimshi was the first to honor the god. The first inscriptions to YHWH come from Edom and Judah and are late ninth century. They indicate that YHWH is a Samaritan/Edomite/South Arabian god. The period that follows in Yehudah is the pruning of gods until major sages like Isaiah make the proclamation that the other gods are dead to them, for they have done nothing for the people of YHWH. As stated angels of gods existed prior to this, there were two angels of El that were also biblical. By the time of Nehemiah El had been Absorbed into Yahwism, he appears to have destroyed the relics of El and Asherah in the temple, including the Ark of the Covenent. During the reign of Yosiah, the relics to these gods and other gods were destroyed within and outside Yehudah. This however backfired as this was a signal to the surrounding dynasties that Jerusalem was trying to play a different game. Egypt clamped it down under Necho II and Babylon ended it. Now the Yahwist were surrounded, completely immersed in Mesopotamian culture and their gods for a period of about 2 generations. At the end of the period they are sent back to reconcile their god with all these fantastic stories, in particularly those of Enki, that sounded a lot like an older version of their god, Yahu, one they had completely merged into YHWH. And so now they needed to refactor the gods. So instead of having two adopted angels of El, they have many, taking on the powers of certain gods. What to do with all these Bel? Euhemerize them as wicked kings like Nimrod (Nimrud was a capital of Assyria) and other things. They avoid using the Semetic words for sun and moon to avoid confusion with the gods as they rewrite all the stories. The old gods of great kings become the Nephilim, and like the some Mesopotamian gods they are bound to the underworld (Kur) in chains. It literally means they are bound inside the mountain. Instead of the great king surviving the flood and starting a new age of Kish, the old kingdoms are destroyed with their gods . . .but the gods were not killed, they are all over Israel. And so we have a problem, they are the gods of the wicked one, the Beliel . . .the devils. This weak notion in Judaism is strengthened by Egyptian and Greek mythology to create the modern notion of Angels and Demons, both originally of the form Daemones, various tendencies of humans. If you read the book of John, know one thing, it was not written for the orthodoxy. It was a protognostic text that appeared 100 years before protorthodoxy. iraneaus found it in a collection of gnostic texts. It was not meant for everyone to understand, but a select few, its words are metaphors, these are magical notions to the Christian mystics of the first century. It is like a chant in Hinduism or Buddhism. Its sayings are repetitious because it was meant to be repeated in meditation. Its was the Greco-Roman answer to mysticism in Christianity after all hope of the coming kingdom on earth was lost and the Jerusalem sect was scattered to the four winds. The goal of the mystic was to find the temple in the mystical realm. The reality of John is not a historical reality but a spiritual doorway, don’t seek history in the text, you will be disappointed. And the doorway, it’s a pathway to delusion without reflection. Take the advice of Rabbi Akira and avoid heaven diving.

@@onejohn2.26. None the less the teaching by John the Immerser and Jesus was false. They did not need to repent, then end was not nigh, the kingdom of heaven did not come, and it still hasn’t come.

???

Great points, bless you brother

First off, the Shroud of Turin is a medieval forgery. Proven. Not even the style of shrouds really used. And of course those who removed his body removed the bloody temporary shroud and discarded it.

ad-hoc explanations that have never been confirmed. Jesus might as well have been teleported by aliens, and this explanation still fits the evidence and is as unproven as the other supernatural explanations.

​@@rickshannon2044 I kind of find it difficult that any Jew would preserve a blood-stained shroud, as it would likely be ritually unclean. you know, Jews have something against touching blood.

amein ameen

Blahahaha