Composite DID exist and was in use in the aircraft industry. Aluminum honeycomb fiberglass has been around since the 50's. As for Magnesium the fire attendants would have tried but found out that water on a magnesium fire intensifies it! Chances are it wasn't to bad fire wise until they added water to the mix then BOOM, it adds oxygen and the chemical process releases a lot of heat. Fire retardant for magnesium was available back then but for a truck full would have been 100K back then! The French are not spending that money are they let alone thinking about it? John Surtees was no dummy and would have known this hence the refusal, remember he had no problem riding magnesium built motorcycles. As for the flammability of Chunks of magnesium it has a lot to do with the surface oxidation and heat present in the metal. Magnesium is also cast so you would think it would just go up in flames during the casting process but it doesn't. It is the surface oxidation that prevents the combustion. When cast we used to smother the patterns with R12 until the cast temp was down low enough that external heat was required to commence combustion. We also machined magnesium wheels on CNC lathes mostly Group A during my time (DJR, WR, Nissan/Gibson and many others) and they were also dangerous to machine as you are producing magnesium ribbon if not finer during the process. A normal Aluminum wheel would use a single 1/4" coolant outlet to promote tool life and finish. On a Mag lathe we used 3 wash pumps pumping coolant at 70 psi through 1" outlets. The coolant was also Glycol based. This kept the temp low enough and prevented exposure to air during the process when there was heat around as it was basically submerged. A sub contractor did still loose a lathe to fire though during my time and because the release of R12 became illegal to save the Ozone they didn't have a magnesium fire extinguisher and their sand bin had got wet.

@@dazaspc good old fibreglass. Used on gliders but not really seen on an f1 car until a bit later after this.

@@AidanMillward F4 phantom glides pretty quickly🤣

@@dazaspc all planes are gliders if the engines pack in 🤔

Phenolic composite has been around since the 1920s.

Not being around at the time, I guess those at the time understood as we do now that motor racing is dangerous... just their measure of acceptable risk was different. It was what it was. I'd assume that everyone understood plenty well that the 150+ liters of fuel they started the race with was flammable and that concern was ignored. Also, the flammability of the Elektron wasn't exactly the problematic part of the 1955 disaster.

Happened again in 1970. Alejandro de Tomaso has built a magnesium chassis F1 car that Frank Williams entered for Piers Courage to drive. Courage had a good year in 1969 driving a Brabham for Williams, but Frank wanted his own bespoke car to enter. Courage crashed at Zandvoort and the result was another intense magnesium fire that was immune to being extinguished. The "good" news is that Courage may have been killed by a tire before the fire started.

To be fair, through the 60s and 70s there were many, many cars were fielded that had Magnesium alloy parts, such as the Porsche 917.

I wasn't aware of magnesium being a problem in 1955 LeMan accident. I thought the biggest problem was the car going through the crowd?

@@jamesharrison3537 The Merc chassis was made of Magnesium, when it caught fire water was used to try and put it out, which made the fire even bigger. After the initial crash a lot of the casualties were smoke inhalation and burns.

I learned that from researching the development of the SR-71!

not if you know how to weld ti....awkward to weld, not difficult

@@paulnutter1713 I mean with the equipment of the time

@@WynnofThule fair comment.... and the knowledge, the ruskis knew more about welding ti than the west at that period

@@paulnutter1713 I thought they had to use nickel steel skin for the Foxbat because they didn't have the titanium welding knowledge that the Americans soon did with the F-15

And Senna was leading And that ended up being the only Race of that Season that McLaren didnt win as well as the first time Ferrari won in Italy after Enzo Ferrari's death

He is an all time legend for taking out Senna. Ferrari scored a 1,2 the week of Enzos death. Plus if you lookat it, it doesnt look totally schlessers fault

@@JohnSmith-rw8uh I agree that Senna could have done more to prevent the accident, what I hated JSL for was him trying to gloat about it afterwards, even going as far as claiming he "made McLaren" because "He kept them hungry" No, you crashed into them and that's the only reason people remember you.

It was said that he went and apologised to Senna and McLaren. I've heard that said in a few different documentaries and other videos on KZfaq. Senna wasn't angry or anything like that after the race either, so I would say that is what happened.

Aidan did a great video on Group B before KZfaq struck. Don't know if he's still got it listed. If so, it's a very interesting watch. Sad, though.

I thought a dodgy roll cage and unsafe exposed fuel tanks caused the problem, but the composites burnt away rather than leaving a metal coffin

That car was also something that should have never raced, it was very flimsy in some areas (gas pedal went thru the floor and got stuck there, front end chassis bars were very fragile etc). Add to that the fuel tanks under the seats on the bottom of the cars, and using fuels that caused drivers to feel dizzy and have eye irritation. It was essentially 700 horsepower 4WD crematorium. Audi was the only one having safe car, as the car was build around mass-produced vehicle using its steel chassis with composite used only on the panels, and the fuel tank at the back.

WEC ?

It’s very telling when Lancia still fielded the 037 for the Safari Rally instead of the Delta S4.

Someone in another comment has confirmed the bit about shoving the plane off the deck before it melts it. The F18 has magnesium landing gear components.

@@AidanMillward A couple of points regarding the bit on the Blackbird. The original "Blackbird" was the Lockheed A-12. This is the aircraft built for the CIA (not the US Air Force) and it entered service before the SR-71. It was actually lighter and faster than the later SR-71. They look very similar but there are some differences if you know where to look. Titanium is a real pain in the ass to fabricate, mill, drill and weld. When Rockwell approached Lockheed about building the Space Shuttle from titanium, Lockheed told them to forget it as it was just too difficult. The Shuttle was made from traditional aluminium as a result. Finally, Lockheed-Martin did not come into exuistence until 1995. At the time the Blackbirds were being designed and built, Lockkheed and Martin were two stand-alone (and competing) manufacturers.

@@EricIrl Not on expert on this but on the titanium part what little I've read and seen also points to this. On that Skunk Works book, they mention how different batches of titanium behaved differently and they didn't know why, I won't spoil it but it was quite a random part of the manufacturing process that was causing issues. I also recall seeing a video from the V10 era about how they had an engineer over at BMW-Williams that would take the complex titanium exhausts and he would manually, gingerly hammer them into the right shape, it seemed incredibly tedious but IIRC that was the only way to do it at the time otherwise the part would get damaged and fail.

@@zeroelus Lockheed had to use special diamond tipped milling machines and cutters to work the titanium. Also, they couldn't mark the compnents with marker ink (as is common practice when cutting metal) because the chemicals in the ink would start corroding the titanium. It is a very, very difficult metal to work.

@@EricIrl Not to mention the toolkit needed to maintain the plane. None of the tools could contain nickel, as that would trigger galvanic corrosion on the Ti.

That is what the orcs are firing into Ukraine.

Yeah, must have got stupid hot or it burned a top layer or something cos it's amazing how that actually happened.

@@AidanMillward From the vidoes available it seems like brake caliper got stuck - disc glowing yellow before the fire starts...

""According to Davison, the brakes heated up until they inevitably combusted, exploding the front tire. The car was still smoking while it was being lifted onto a flatbed truck, but only after it put on a light show with vibrant green and orange flames. This was, understandably, the end of the 2020 Indy 500 for car 51 and Davison, which is a real disappointment considering this happened so early in the race. In an interview after the ordeal, Davison summed up the bizarre incident with a line most of us could take to heart, "It's still 2020.""

@@mikelevitt7365 That requires a deeper look. It would be catastrophic stoopidity if that wheel was actually made of something that could burn. Green and orange flames from what? Thats not an mg fire.

So that was easy. The master cylinder blew up and in order to successfully ignite brake fluid thats about 700 degrees or more leaving no chance it doesnt go off but thats a far cry from what it would take to light the wheel up so no wheel fire.

Likely dead before the fire. Just wrecking these things ended people.

@@pazsion You'd certainly hope so.

That was in 1960, yes.

Not specific to the Hornet, but I do recall seeing many cautionary videos of firefighters unknowingly dumping water on a metal part that's caught fire (I think I saw one for a car that had a magnesium transmission and they came in with the hose) and yes it basically explodes, similar to how you don't want to throw water to an oil pan that's caught fire in the kitchen, but even more dramatic.

@@zeroelus I agree, throwing fire at burning pans is usually a bad ideia.

@@joaopaulo-ms5it Yeah not recommended haha, fixed that typo

I think seeing magnesium burn in science class showed that well enough.

Burning magnesium in water will dissociate the water and use the oxygen to keep on burning, releasing lots of very flammable hydrogen in the process.

That may have happened at Indianapolis in 1970?

I remember IndyCar drivers on fire and couldn't see it. Very frightening

Unsprung weight is no joke!

President Soichiro Honda may have been "shocked", but didn't they try to enter the same death-trap 302 in the following, Italian, Grand Prix? Once again Surtees demurred and in the event I don't think they raced it. I've studied and worked in Japan many years, and have always been impressed at what an incredibly stubborn people they are, often irrationally so. Hard-headedness is admired and interpreted as strength.

TRUTH!

@@robbiddlecombe8392 Yes, immediately afterwards and for some years afterwards, but certainly not now or the last 25-30 years. It’s a shadow of the event it used to be and the roots of that decline were planted around 1964. It was short term gain and long term doom.

@@robbiddlecombe8392 It all depends on how you look at it. Looking from 2022, it seems to me that we lost our national top level racing series and traded it for a second-rate wanna-be Formula One. We had something unique and characteristic of our national racing history and traded it for a cheaper version of a European series that isn't even considered the equal (at least in superlicense points) to a trainer series in F2. To me, that is a gigantic loss. Indy is always going to draw a good crowd because of its novelty value and long history, but six months after the race ask anyone who is not a die hard fan of the series who won it, and you'll get no answers. You'd be lucky to get one out of a thousand to say "some Swedish guy". Once Indy 500 winners became household names, like Foyt, Andretti, Parnelli Jones, the Unsers. Once you had all the young drivers in the country, starting at the short tracks, aiming at Indy as their goal. No more. Now they're as shut out of the series as black baseball players were before Jackie Robinson, and NASCAR, as much as a freak side show as that is, is our national racing series. Instead of it being the ultimate goal for drivers, it's a fall back plan for guys who can't buy their way into Formula One. And it all started when they decided to abandon American cars and American drivers for imitation Formula cars, and that began in 1963-64-65. To me, IndyCar died in the early 80's, when we saw Sneva and Johncock win, with it already becoming clear that we'd never see their like again in victory circle at Indy. Nobody figured that if we did, it would be Jeff Gordon & Tony Stewart in a Winston Cup car.

The Indy 500 is still THE PREMIER racing event in the world bar none.

Dad taught Industrial Arts 789th grade--Taught small gas engines-Old mower decks made of magnesium would be broken up for demo purposes. I still have a gallon can full-at 60 year old.--light up for the 4th july--kids love it--just don,t look to much or burn your retinas out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks dad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The thing is if it's very thick, it's also going to be quite heavy.

Can imagine it's like putting water on a chip pan fire

They do it takes longer but burn they do

I've seen a number of times in NASCAR races where wheels caught on fire. Not a common occurrence, but it has happened on occasion. A memorable one was a race in Charlotte where one of Jeff Gordon's wheels caught fire, and it was impressive because it was at night. Usually happens because of a break failure, the breaks catch fire, then the wheel catches fire.

I didn’t say Honda was the first use of magnesium though.

Also mad when you factor in John Surtees surviving motorsport at its deadliest, yet his son died when it was at its safest.

Vw beetle engine blocks were mag , guys would use one new years as a camp fire

Early Porsche 911 crankcases are magnesium as well (with aluminum cylinders and heads).

Precisely..... See my comments above. J.C,

Best comment. Congrats!

It was shown in the Killer Years doc along with Von Tripps’ crash.

I'd say given the near fatal injuries sustained to A.J. Foyt in a more secure stock car at least for a flip given the roll cage at Riverside that Schlesser was almost certainly killed as (a. the embankment Schlesser went up was steeper, (b. Schlesser's head and neck were exposed, (c. Schlesser rolled more times than Foyt, (d Schlesser landed upside down, and (e. Foyt was declared dead and only revived by Parnelli Jones removing a clod of dirt from Foyt's mouth. And there was a lot more things going Foyt's way at Riverside for it to almost kill him.

Might want to check your facts. Brabham has always been registered as a British team and based in Britain just like mclaren.

Brabham also used coopers at the start.

@@OoVECTORMANoO I thought the Repco-Brabham cars raced in the green and gold colours of Australia rather than British Racing Green? I mean I've never heard the Brabham described as being painted in British Racing Green until you mentioned that the cars were entered as British.

Hmmm looks like I might have some homework to do. I won't argue semantics like Australian owner, designer, engines just yet before I do some reading. 😁😉❤️✌️ Oh and thanks for being so respectful in your comments. It's part of the reason I subscribe.

@@TassieLorenzo British racing green isn’t a set colour, really. Aston’s green has blue in it, Jaguar and Bentley have a really dark green and Lotus is the green everyone associates with it.

Chronologically speaking perhaps.

I won't disagree, but in my time as a follower of F1, we lost Jules Bianchi. Maybe not yet as beloved by fans as the drivers you list, but Jules' life-ending collision with the crane in Suzuka resulted in at least 2 major changes in F1: the virtual safety car and the Halo. Since then, we've seen multiple accidents where the Halo unquestionably saved the driver from critical injury or death. Verstappen landing atop Hamilton is one, and certainly Grosjean's miracle survival after going under a fence. It's unknown what effect the VSC has been on safety, but it has surely changed pit strategy!

Is that what we're calling it? Hah! I love it!

Best Motorsport highlight this year by a mile! I'm mostly into BTCC and F1 but NASCAR and XFINITY both been awesome this year

Yeah, boo exotic engines!! hisss!! who follows F1 for ordinary engineering?

Did any teams consider supercharging, rather than turbosupercharging, their existing 1.5L engines?

@@stephenscholes4758 Well, following was what the exotic engines did. They followed the cars with Cosworths.

Because it was cheaper to buy an off the shelf engine. Money no option, a V12 with the same development, will always beat a V8 in every respect

@@stephenscholes4758 Well, there was a test case from 1967 to 1981. The final score was V8 - 11, V/Flat12 - 4.

That was the way things were back then. It was perfectly "normal" at the time.