They are better off than before. Cardassia Prime is devastated, along with the Septimus and Chintoka systems. But 99% of the War was fought outside Cardie borders. Treaty of Bajor stipulated no occupation, no territory lost. The Cardies inherited all that Dominion tech and a huge industrial base. Once they get over the shock and rebuild they are technologically and economically caught up with the other powers.

My massive misunderstanding about the name and premise of The Kardashians will always be one of the saddest moments of my life.

@@johnghudjars3496 Apart from the devastation of Cardassia Prime, the other big issue we see the Cardassians dealing with, at least according to STO, is a civil war between the Cardassian Republic and the "True Way", a splinter group who wish to reestablish the old authoritarian regime.

One of my favorite pieces of writing in a Star Trek novel is when Garak reveals what pushed him to run for leadership of cardassia on a pro-Federation ticket. He essentially says he was invited to a meeting in the basement of a ruined home where they began plotting to restore cardassia to its former glory through conquest and war. Garak couldn't believe they were literally sitting in the ruins of cardassia prime planning the next big war, seemingly ignorant of the fact that their plans is what destroyed Cardassia in the first place.

@@VestedUTuber sounds like any country in earth, doesn't stop the politics

That's the plan! - Jack

I hear Borg Busters is the best one 😉

Oh, one thing: Whilst you probably know, the original design size of the Galor seems to have been 1580 to 1587 feet (or 481 to 483.7 m) in TNG, at least. For DS9 they apparently scaled it down. But still often showed it, as larger (including compared to the Defiant)@@TrekCentral

They were just fine for what they were: Galor Type 2 is a destroyer, a Galor Type 3 a medium cruiser. Perfectly fine against ships in their own roles and operate in packs against newer, more powerful ships like the Nebula or Galaxy. But, the Federation only has 24 Galaxys and maybe 100 Nebulas. The Cardassians have like 2000 Galors, and 400 Keldons. It more than evens out if fighting on a single front.

It totally does, tho. Good eye, I can't unsee it.

A rays body with an earwig's tail pincers!

Yeah, I never really though it looked like a wang.

Well said. I enjoyed reading this. During the video here I was thinking to myself, "I would love to hear Adam just roll right into the True Way conflict and the resulting during- and post-conflict ships". I'm so glad you were here. Cheers!

@@ArtistryBranson I love what STO's story does, at times it feels like a better continuation of Star Trek's story then the New Trek material. I HATE DIscovery, but really like how it's implemented into STO.

>These 3 ships also focused more on versatility and tech advancement over stronger weapons or sheer numbers, being a Science Dreadnought, Escort, and Carrier Except they are also all intel spec ships, and that means surgical strike: the biggest of Pew Pew attacks and encouraging you to just put the biggest guns possible on the ships

Wasn't that on an episode of Top Gear?

@@ThePathStrider He Knows!!! XD I salute a fellow top gear fan :)

One of the first times we see them, 2 or 3 of them get taken out by a Nebula class fairly easily. Had the Federation really considered them a threat and committed the same level of border forces as they had with the Klingons and Romulans, those early raids wouldn't have happened. They were only really a threat due to their tactics and willingness to engage in acts that even the Klingons would consider brutal and dishonorable.

@@dirtpirate36 The type of warship destroyed by the Phoenix was never revealed. And even if it was a Galor Type II, I would think that a heavy cruiser should be able to defeat a single destroyer rather easily. Remember, there is no single "Galor," they are a different variants that use a common space-frame ranging from destroyers to heavy cruisers, to the Keldon. A Galor Type II could take on an Excelsior with pretty good odds. Two Galor Type IIIs were a threat to the Enterprise D. One shouldn't evaluate an entire fleet based on one ship's performance when it was vastly overmatched. Moreover, one cannot properly assess a ship, or a fleet, without understanding its doctrine. There is a reason Starfleet didn't easily win the Border Wars: Whereas a Nebula Class Heavy Cruiser, or Galaxy Class battleship far outclasses a Galor Type II Destroyer, or even a Galor Type III medium cruiser, the numbers of Nebulas and Galaxys is exceedingly small compared to the number of 23rd Century legacy ships. When a Galor Type II can fight 90% of your ships on even terms, or the numerous Galor Type IIIs overmatch 90% of your fleet, it isn't favorable at all.

@@dirtpirate36 I mean, the Federation had problems with the Talarians and they were at a tech level lower than Archer's Enterprise, I think.

There isn't a single Galor. There are three sub-types using a common space frame: 1) Galor Type 2 is a destroyer, 2) Galor Type 3 is a medium cruiser, 3) Galor Type 4 is a improved version of Type 3 built during the Dominion War. Galor Type 2 is equal to an Excelsior, the Type 3 near to an Ambassador. Two Type 3s could take out a Nebula easily. IN any event, Cardassians are around 30 years behind, not 100. They are able to design super advanced systems, but with their economy they could not mass produce them. Example: The Dreadnaught missile. The Dominion fixed that and their entire Fleet was upgraded to high lethality.

Did you dispatch it to bring back his body.

Especially in the Dominion War. One-shot killing even Akira Class ships.

@@johnghudjars3496 that was a real dramatic / hard secene !

Many galor type. Common frame. Galor 1, 2,3. Galor 2 equal to Excelsior. Galor 3 twice as strong like Ambassador class.

OImportant factor is positioning. If Galor go for front atack, it is realy strong and Excelsior lose. But if you are out of range of main weapon Galor became only about 1/3 dangerous

@@tomaskops7119 True, and the main weapons are front and back with only medium SWDs everywhere else. Formations cover these weak spots. Although, they do have moderate 360 weapons coverage.

True to an extent. The Galor space-frame itself is demonstrative of this. A common, rugged and robust frame that can be filled with new tech every ten years. As a consequence, the Galors could be built for different roles. Moreover, from an economic POV, it is an excellent idea. They built 1000s of Galors and they were easy to repair and refit. Like a T-34 or a Sherman tank.

Also, the Dominion's biggest contribution was introducing their highly advanced replicator technology to the Cardassians. This, in one fell swoop, along with teaching them advanced construction techniques, solved the Cardassians economic problems. The space of the Cardassian Union went from being only able to support a fleet built in numbers, but unable to support a uniformly advanced designs, to supporting the largest space fleet ever seen in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants of the highest technological types. The Cardassians are not stupid people. They are able to design advanced weapons and systems on par with the Federation, but couldn't mass produce it. Not unlike Russia today: The designed an outstanding Gen 5 fighter in the Su-57, and a great modern MBT in the T-14 Armata, but are too poor to build them in anywhere near the numbers to be competitive with the West. But then, here comes the Dominion who solves those problems for Cardassia and within a few months the Cardassian Fleet is vastly improved. The Galor II and III go from moderately good at their roles to utterly lethal to enemy ships of the same role. They produce cutting-edge systems like the Orbital Weapons Platforms and the Hutet.

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 Amazing analogy.

💯💯💯

This is the analysis the video should have been!!!

Should have been the Keldon.

A great Starship Captain once said: “Cardassians are like timber wolves, predators. Bold in large numbers, cautious by themselves, and with an instinctive need to establish a dominant position in any social gathering”

@@worfwednesday They love the high ground.

Galor Type IIs operate in packs as most destroyers do.

That was how the strategy game Birth of the Federation presented them. Unfortunately, it didn't stop the Cardassians from being consistently the weakest faction.

"Quantity has a quality all its own."-Stalin

I believe they showed the bridge in the first or second episode, when Kira was moving the station to the location of the wormhole.

More detail would of been nice rather than what could be seen past the cardassian talking head.@@nunya3163

Since mentioned herein, I think it's a no-brainer. Ya must!

one thing about the keldon class: it was only ever seen three, both times it was an illegal ship of the obsidian order. i never saw them outside of that context, so it really doesnt exist as a ship class.

@@matthewbarabas3052 But they do exist. And they are referred to.

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 nope. the only mentions of a keldon class ships, and the only appearances are the obsidian order Keldons. theres no instance of it anywhere else, or in any other context. it exists only as a specially modified subclass used illegally.

@@matthewbarabas3052 Yes. Yes it does. This isn't a matter of debate. Dukat refers to the Obsidians as a superior variant to an already existing class. "Those are faster than any Keldon I've seen." -"Defiant." He didn't say "I have never seen that type of ship before." Moreover, the Keldon Class was a configuration Starfleet databanks were already familiar with as in the Maquis crew identified them on sensor information alone as a recognized class. Second, Keldons are also referred to as battlecruisers as opposed to the Galor Type II (Destroyers), and the Galor Type III (Medium Cruiser). In the episode "Valiant," the crew of the Valiant recall a battle with a "Cardassian Battlecruiser," that left them completely disabled. There are no other canon warships in that description except the Keldon as a heavier vessel than the Galor.

I'm sure no offence will be taken. I naturally write with Adam's voice and idiosyncrasies in mind 😂

Game play balance, otherwise the Federation would eventually dominate with tech. Plus, there aren't many fleshed out alien species in Trek to make into a playable species/empire.

Not at all. You cannot measure the enemy based on the performance of their destroyers against your battleships or heavy cruisers. You have to measure them by class. So in a fleet where 90% of the ships are legacy 23rd Century that is evenly matched by a Galor Type II, or outclassed by the numerous Galor Type III, all of a sudden it isn't such a cake walk. To draw blood, the Cardassians don't need to even bother engaging the sparse numbers of Nebulas, Galaxys or Ambassadors: They only need to target the smaller and older ships to inflict damage. In a democracy any losses, even if they're just cannon fodder Mirandas or Constellations, is keenly felt.

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 No, you don't measure them by the performance of a handful of ships. You measure them by the fact that the supposedly "devastating" war they fought with the Federation was so small scale by Federation standards that much of the Federation didn't even seem to know there _was_ a war and Starfleet saw it as nothing more than a border skirmish. They were never a serious military threat until the Dominion got involved, and even then the Jem'Hadar (and later Breen) were the ones everyone feared.

@@vegeta002 It doesn't matter if it is small-scale to the Federation. It doesn't mean it wasn't costly. The Vietnam War was small scale in terms of total commitment by the US, but it was still devastating. Both sides considered it devastating according to dialogue, moreover, just because it wasn't mentioned all the time does not mean it wasn't costly. Moreover, the treaty itself attests to the lack of a favorable outcome for the Federation insofar as it was a Border Skirmish that lasted 15 years and resulted in the Federation ceding territory. The US fought a war in the Middle East for 20 years and there was zero impact on the home-front save those personally effected. It was far from being devastating for the average US citizen, but it was, in fact, devastating and that was only an insurgency. A conflict between a near-peer and a superpower even on a limited front would result in losses in the millions and economic damage. I could go into an entire essay about how people completely mischaracterize how the War went and how it was fought. Most people haven't served in the military. Most people are not policy analysts or historians. I am all three and I can tell you that a war between the Federation and Cardassians would be a lot more costly than the casual fan would think. People have little idea what the true cost of war is: a great example being the impact of the Russo-Ukrainian War of today. "They were never a serious military threat until the Dominion got involved, and even then the Jem'Hadar (and later Breen) were the ones everyone feared." Your implication is that Starfleet had its way based on the performance of the Galor Class variants in general. I.e., they aren't a threat to Starfleet. That is categorically incorrect. The Federation clearly thought enough of the Cardassians as a threat to not want another conflict, and to cede territory. The Cardassians had no problems with 90% of the vessels in Starfleet that were older legacy ships and that is a major tactical issue that becomes a strategic one. it's like saying, "well Russian tanks can only destroy our M60s. 90% of the tank fleet is M60s, but the 10% that aren't will sort things out." It doesn't work that way. To your second point, the Cardassians were plenty feared during the Dominion War and their fleets and OWPs gave plenty of trouble to the Alliance. The upgraded Cardassian Fleet was more than a match for the Klingons or Starfleet. The Galor Types II and III, and the new build IVs, were often superior in offensive capability to Alliance peers in the same role, and more than effective against even capital ships when engaged in squadrons. Galor Class destroyers and cruisers are repeatedly seen delivering single catastrophic beam attacks that destroyed Birds of Prey (B'Rel), Jem Hadar attack ships, Breen Frigates, and even medium and heavy Federation cruisers (Excelsiors, Steamrunners, Akiras). The heavy Federation losses in "Sacrifice of Angels," along with "Tears of the Prophets" clearly demonstrate that. Again, it comes down to doctrine and tactics. The Dominion Fleet features large capital ships and attack ships with nothing in between. The Cardassians provided 100% of the heavy cruiser, cruiser, destroyer and strike cruiser roles for the Dominion. Without them they could not engage in combined role combat. Moreover, during the first half of the War when the Dominion had its most success, the Cardassians were extremely effective and plenty feared.

@@vegeta002 Again, I have to disagree with you. One does not trade territory for peace if one does not at least respect the enemy. The Cardassians are a militaristic society and even though their territory is smaller than oh, the Romulans for example, they control as many systems in half the space. Given their military proclivities, that makes them a rather dense military power on an outlying border of the Federation. The US is far more powerful than the North Koreans, it doesn't mean the North Koreans couldn't inflict a lot of damage on the US and its allies. The Cardassians are more like the British or French are vis-a-vis the United States or USSR during the Cold War. They have a strong relatively modern, though not cutting edge, military. No, they don't have the overall power of the US or USSR for global power projection, but on a single front in their own garden? Yes, they are dangerous and can defend themselves. Also, contrary to your assertion, in several episodes of TNG Starfleet personnel refer to the Border Wars as quite horrific and costly. That it isn't mentioned all the time is not indicative of much. There appear to be random conflicts that are barely mentioned. Such as the Tzenketh War and the Tholian Conflict.

he absolutely made scrap out of everything he met with the phoenix

a nebula class is a strike cruiser. a galaxy class is a command cruiser. they serve completely different functions. a better opponent for a group of nebulas would be a group of keldons. a single keldon is at a disadvantage against a single debula, as per cardassian design philosophy.

Galor Class Type 2 is a destroyer. Of course a Nebula destroyed it. Nebula is a heavy cruiser. A Galor 2 is equal to an Excelsior but fight in packs of 3-4. A Galor 3 is twice as powerful as Excelsiors. Problem is in the Fed-Cardie War, Nebulas and Galaxys make up like 5% of Starfleet. 85-90% are like Excelsiors, Mirandas, Constellations etc. Galor 2s are equal and Galor 3s superior. On the balance the Cardassians have tons of Galors all of which are at worst equal to 90% of Starfleets old ships, and many time with the Galor 3 superior. To really inflict damage on Starfleet all the Cardies have to do is run from the odd Galaxy and Nebula and then single out old ships which they can take. Since the War was fought on Cardassia's front-door they could choose their battles. That is how the War got bloody.

@@sabin97 Someone gets it. A pre-war Keldon was just shy of a Nebula in power. The Obsidian Order Keldons were about equal. Dominion War Keldons were superior to the non Tactical-Pod Nebulas. A TNG Galor Type III was weaker than a Nebula, but two Type 3s could probably take a Nebula. In 'Waltz,' Three Galor Type 2 destroyers destroyed the Nebula Class USS Honshu.

@@johnghudjars3496 yeah, cardassian ship design was more oriented on formations. that's why their ships could fire accurately from all angles.

Your comment is really under-appreciated. Moreover, as you note, because the Cardassians are particular about the ship type due to being resource poor, they designed a robust space-frame to be used by several different classes. This makes both construction and repair exceedingly easy. Like the Sherman tank or T-34 in WWII because of commonality of parts. The Cardassians could rapidly build Galors and they were modular. They could simply build the frame, and then put in the modules for the Type 2 or Type 3. Or put a backpack on it and build a Keldon. This allowed them to build 1000s upon 1000s during the Dominion War. Repairing them was also easy. Plenty of spare parts, every shipyard in the Union can handle them. This is how they so rapidly refit them after joining the Dominion. And it is a strong frame. Dukat's unshielded Galor Type 3 took 38 hits from three Birds of Prey and was still intact. And that was only the hits we saw, because it had also been fighting the Vorcha that cloaked to ambush the Defiant. Theoretically, the Cardie could just keep putting new components into the same frame for decades to come.

The 371 doesn't always seem to jive with what is on screen. Still, three or more constitutes "a wing" which was able to destroy a lone Nebula, probably with some skillful approach, Dominion sensors and other enhanced systems. It's interesting that is called a destroyer and a cruiser. Could it be there is a larger, more powerful command cruiser nearly 500m long, and a 371m destroyer that represents the older models?

He was actually on an episode of Discovery Channel's RISA LIFE... What? It was good!

And then in DS9 they one-shotting ships like nothing. And not just small ships either. It is confusing. But, if one really looks at the material, not that surprising. Unfortunately, the video was made by people with only the most casual knowledge on the topic.

Thanks for the sub! - Jack

And don't forget the weird space baseball helmet 😂

Galor Type 2 is a destroyer. They were no match. Galor Type 3 is still only a medium cruiser. But, consider how few Galaxys there are and how many Galors. In a war they ignore the big ships and destroy they smaller, older ones to draw blood.

Depends on the Galor. They are not all the same. Like Shermans and T-34s they were improved steadily over the years, but thanks to the common frame and parts, Galors were mass produced by the 1000s. The Galor Type 2 is a destroyer. The Galor Type 3 a medium cruiser. The Galor Type 2 did the fighting in the Border War. It was a match for the Excelsior Class and superior to the Miranda and Constellation. Problem for the Federation is that the Cardassians had 1000s of Galors that can all destroy 90% of the ships in Starfleet while there were relatively few Galaxy and Nebula class ships, or even Ambassadors. The Cardassians bridged the gap a bit when the Galor Type 3 came out in 2365. It was superior to the Excelsior by a fair margin. One Galor Type 3 was not a match for a Nebula. But two Type 3s had an advantage over the Nebula. And then the Dominion came and helped the Cardassians mass-produce advanced tech and refit their entire fleet. All of a sudden, the Galor Type 3 could one-shot a Bird of Prey, or anything smaller than a cruiser. And then even cruisers. In 'Sacrifice of Angels' a Steamrunner is one-shotted. And an Akira too. Three Galor Type 2 Destroyers destroyed the Nebula Class USS Honshu in 'Waltz.'

The shields were there, they still made the odd mention of them even in battles where they didn't show up. They just didn't seem to want to animate them, especially in large scale battles where hundreds of shields would be constantly flaring up every second.

That's what crewmen are for

@@hanshawks5088 Why insult real service people by stealing a rank you are not entitled to have?

I'm pretty sure any disarmament on the Cardassian part is going to have more to do with how wrecked they were by the war.

Si. Heavily.

Yes they did. New reactors, power-relays, SIFs, better beam emitters. Huge leap in effectiveness. The space of the Cardassian Union went from being only able to support a fleet built in numbers, but unable to support a uniformly advanced designs, to supporting the largest space fleet ever seen in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants of the highest technological types. The Cardassians are not stupid people. They are able to design advanced weapons and systems on par with the Federation, but couldn't mass produce it. Not unlike Russia today: The designed an outstanding Gen 5 fighter in the Su-57, and a great modern MBT in the T-14 Armata, but are too poor to build them in anywhere near the numbers to be competitive with the West. But then, here comes the Dominion who solves those problems for Cardassia and within a few months the Cardassian Fleet is vastly improved. The Galor II and III go from moderately good at their roles to utterly lethal to enemy ships of the same role. They produce cutting-edge systems like the Orbital Weapons Platforms and the Hutet.

I don't remember anything in canon about that, since the Cardassians were just cannon fodder to the Dominion (and going by the Female Changelings words in the final episode, were going to be exterminated after the war anyway). If any upgrades _did_ happen, it was probably in the novels. Which are non-canon.

What year was the war of 1812 ?

What year was the war of 1812 ?

This is true! The Galor Type 3 had twice the shields of the Excelsior. The Cardassian weapons became much more powerful after the Dominion helped them design more powerful reactors and emitters.

People also forget that just because a Galor 2 or 3 can't take a Galaxy 1-on-1 doesn't make them weak. They were outclassed. But starfleet is like 90% older ships, not Galaxys and Nebulas. And Galors can take those out fine.

It was cool. But two battleships turning a Galor destroyer into a spit-roast is not as impressive as a Galor Type 3 one-shot destroying a Stearmrunner and Akira Class in that battle.

Absolutely. The upgrade the Cardassians fleet received during the Dominion war was significant. In the final season of DS9 we saw a Galor class warship destroy a fully shielded and undamaged Bird of Prey effortlessly, in one shot. Those primary phase disruptor banks in large Cardassian warships are seriously powerful by the end of the war.

Also why would a highly critical and extremely xenophobic Romulan Tal Shiar even have decided to take on a joint military operation with the obsidian order if they didn’t think they could be of any advantage in that scenario

To be fair, Excelsiors got their fair share of upgrades. The Lakota's upgrades show how Starfleet can continue to make old designs relevant. Except for the Miranda and Oberth classes, whom every adversary had their way with...😅

Firstly: The Galor Class ks the Galor, there are no subtypes. What there WAS however were writers and FX artists who never could stick to consistency. Thats it. Yes you can watch venom geek and co and listen to them prattle one about their own little headcanon all day, does not make it accurate lore. Sometimes cardassians are shit tier, sometimes they are formidable. They are the Bird of prey of opponents.

Noted!

"you'd shoot a man in the back?!"-odo "Well it's the safest way"-Garak

Theoretically possible. They could have got the shield frequencies, and a surprise attack from in the Dominion battle lines.

@gmradio2436 yes or the breen and dominion were forward shields front weaker from behind. I remember the breen asked to be in front , ahead of the jem hadar . . Apparently, at the beginning of the battle, there were 16 thousand dominion vessels. ( including cardassians and breen ) . The federation allies were significantly outnumbered. But it was the combined starfleet. Klingon and romulan fleets ( combined) around 8 or 9 thousand ships . They lost a third of them before the cardassians switched. But once they did , the dominion lost a lot more , it was 24 minutes of carnage. Federation/ klingons pressed the attack. . Then sicko and the romulans. It also had the pre-war fleet sizes and what they were at the end of the war . Almost half of starfleet lost . The klingons lost around 5 thousand ships.

I disagree with this channel's assessment but I am not going to write a novel to explain why. But, to touch on the Dominion War, there are multiple instances that demonstrate that the entire Cardassian fleet was upgraded during the War and were very effective and destroyers and medium cruisers, as well as the Keldon a good heavy cruiser. Cardassian weapons were a big problem and were very powerful. There are six on-screen examples of a Galor one-shotting ships with their main cannon: A BoP, Bug Ship, Breen Frigates, Steamrunner and Akira as well numerous others of them inflicting heavy damage on other Fed ships.

@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 agreed. Upgraded

Federation bureaucrats and Federation complacency i would imagine.

The federation barely cared.

The Galaxy class and nebula class were launched in the 2360s, but the war officially ended in the 2350s. So think what the Cardassians were primarily up against? Mirandas and Excelsior Classes, and maybe some Ambassador classes (which don't have a particularly great reputation either). You might have seen some of the wolf359 galaxy family but they obviously were never in large numbers (but may have contributed to the actual end of the conflict). Remember that Gul Dukat with a beard is just stunned at the capabilities of the Galaxy and Nebula, so the cardassians were not fighting these literal next gen ships during the war.

The Federation apparently didn't take them seriously; Starfleet called the "war" a border skirmish and much of the Federation didn't even seem aware they _were_ at war.

To the Cardassians it was the Federation Cardassian War. An all out fight for the future of Cardassia ,the definitive moment of a generation. To the Federation it was a near meaningless border conflict that they signed a treaty to end because they had other sh!t to do and were too nice to blow Cardassia back to whatever came before the Stone Age. Kind of like the War of 1812.