The Church Needs to Sue AP for libel. I’m super willing to see our tithing dollars fight back against the slime in the media.

So good to have you three back together again.

I’m an active member. I’m aware of another abuse situation exactly like the Bisby one. My belief is that the help line did not understand the Arizona law and was giving incorrect information to bishops here and creating terrible situations. A very good member of my stake who is a lawyer sued the church for practicing law without an Arizona license. He lost the law suit. He is still in a calling requiring great trust. I hope this has been corrected. I don’t think there was evil intent by the helpline but they are responsible for the situation of which I am aware.

Down here in Pensacola, I had no idea what you guys were talking about. It's not in any news cycle here. It would be great if all these types of things could completely stop but they come up now and then in every church or school or in any situation where there is opportunity for somebody who shouldn't be in a position like that. The only thing that we can do is prosecute and then see if there is a way to change processes to protect better in the future. It's sad that these things can happen.

Yay to the Church and Yay to the MM's for bringing it into more light.

I'm glad the church realized that when a news source lies and defames you, you need to stand up and correct the record. People will believe the lies if you don't respond. Too often we let lies circulate without response and don't defend the church - which is partly why so many people get misled.

YES!! This is what we need. We finally have seen the Church take a STRONG stance against our oppressors. We won't tolerate it anymore. I love it.

I just noticed this article about an hour ago. I'm so glad the Church isn't just taking this on the chin. I wish you guys would respond to John Dehlin's shows on this topic. The AP Article was like Christmas for him.

I love your show it offers the public especially a Latter-day Saint on fire a place to get info on such topics as you speak of today. I agree animals have no place in humanity especially those who harm children as was discussed today. But we must remember that redemption is for all, even those who were at one time the Laminates who then buried their weapons of war. Even though we must use extreme consequences on those who violate humanity, but we often forget that our mortal existence is as small of a moment in the scale of eternity as if it never existed at compared, but to us as mortal being, it is our entire existence, because we have nothing to compare it to outside of the reality in the which we exist.

Listen to yourselves. Oh it's not as bad as they say guys. Absolutely incredible.

Yes . The author of the ap article also uncovered what was going on in the Catholic Church. Brad. Buddy. The reason it seems like it's a "wildly different situation" is because this time it's about your religion instead of someone else's. It could be that you are too close to the situation to see this from an unbiased point of view. This is a church you've spent many, many hours defending so I would imagine there could be just as much evidence as there was in the Catholic Church but you won't ever be able to see it. Abuse is happening in the mormon church. I've seen it happen to people I love. The church has to own up to it and it has to do better.

The exmo community has an axe to grinde against the church they used to belong to and that they conveniently claim to have “abused” them for having standards. If they say anything, 99% of the time it’s a lie or so nuanced that it is inaccurate and only shows their bias. I always know that when an exmo or angry soon to exit jonbaker, or JH or MS type member speaks, it’s usually not true. I hate that this happened, I feel bad for all involved. The abuser will be held to account, the abused will probably suffer the rest of her/his mortal life due to the abuse, and those who were involved will always question how things could be handled better in the future. I’m glad that the “most honest news company on Earth” got taken to task for being liars.

Thanks!

16:13 "and where's their helpline" Um we start with the local police department or 911 if necessary. How is that for a helpline to start out with?

These 3 guys are theater guys, which is appropriate for what Mormonism is.

Agree with Brad. We don't know what the Bishop knew. Something doesn't add up here.

I’m halfway through this podcast and I still have no idea what is being discussed. Is there some kind of link to the story?

Man this sucks…

There are 2500 lds Boy Scouts that have filed suit. The hotline isn’t transparent. We do not know how many calls, how many lawsuits, how many settlements.

I love The Church of Jesus Christ and stand forward and defend her; but the helpline exists only to protect the corporate assets of the corporation.

I would love to see you post all of your content on Rumble.

People do shitty things. Large organizations have beaucratic failures.

12:43 So the hotshot lawyers on the hotline were “confused “ about Arizona law??? WOW! It all makes perfect sense !!! 🤮

Hey dad, what does what-about-is-mean? Here son, check out this KZfaq video:

It's a system that fails too often and needs to be restructured.

What?! Fake news reports fake news and enemies of the Church use it to get gain! I’m shocked!! Also, I said this on the live stream video but I am going to say it again just to hammer it home: We need y’all to have on these peeps: -Shad Brooks from Shadiversity and Knight’s Watch -Micheal B Rush who wrote A Remnant Shall Return -Meghan Farner from The Latter-day Disciple Podcast -Greg Matsen from Cwic Media -And always more Jacob Hansen!

The Church has a Spine?? 😂 That’s awesome, lately it’s felt like they were turning woke.

The policy should be protect the victims no matter the consequences report every time? Is it not true that for every state if the child is in danger you can report? It should be law the you have to report! It should be law that you can’t be sued for reporting! So it does seem that by telling them not to report your trying to protect the bishop the church and indirectly the predators while the child continues to suffer, screw that! What am I missing? I always want to defend this church, which I love. Help me out here!

Love how you can’t spend more than 5 minutes talking about your own church before shifting blame to exmormons and John Dehlin. Never forget, Joseph Smith married a 14 year old and multiple under aged women.

It isn't fake news, though. The AP article pointed out that as a result of the use of this help line, a child's abuse went unreported, continued, and was repeated on another child, when it didn't have to be. That's factually true. The church detailing the timeline doesn't expose any conflict with what AP reported: Adams made a confession, Herrod was advised not to report, Herrod continued to meet with Adams and involved his wife without success, and at any point after the confession Herrod was legally free to report the abuse to authorities and didn't. Adams' excommunication doesn't change or impact that, nor does the frequency of his attendance. There's no implication at all in the AP article that Herrod knew anything he couldn't have back in 2011. Is there genuinely something about these details or this timeline that you feel recontextualizes the premise that Herrod, with a confession of abuse in 2011, was advised not to report it to authorities despite there being no legal reason he could not, and that this was bad? All that's actually "called out" in this statement is info that doesn't pertain to the problem. Even in the court proceedings the church asserted that its defense is not based on Herrod being legally prohibited from reporting, but rather that he was not legally *obligated* to. Speaking to Brad's suggestion near the beginning (4:22) that Herrod wouldn't have withheld a report if he knew the extent of the abuse, he knew *a lot*. Leizza Adams' sentencing hearing has the interviewing agent's testimony that Herrod told him that Adams admitted to both the nature and frequency of the abuse in this "limited confession". This seems like such a weird approach. Cardon's on there saying more than once, "Yeah, someone dropped the ball here." Even mentions later that it's heinous to rely on getting an abuser to self confess. Yes, that's right, because the AP article is a real, accurate story, and not fake. The families (the article mentions 3 cases in different states) claims that this system can be misused in a way that keeps abuse reports from reaching the proper authorities is borne out as accurate. Brad's pointing out how this is coming from the same person who helped expose abuse in the Catholic church; is it safe to assume you felt that was accurate and/or necessary reporting? But now it's highlighting a problem in the LDS church, and we need to view it with caution? We do agree that if bishops are being advised not to report abuse, that's a problem right? Especially when no law prohibits them, as was the case here? But really, even if doing so came with the risk of a lawsuit, it should simply be policy to report. We should be grateful this problem, this vulnerability, has been exposed so that it can be fixed, not praising the church offices for having enough "spine" to fight back against, ultimately, victims of abuse whose suffering was made worse by this problem, in a statement that probably ought to have been made along with acknowledgement of a substantive change instead of ending with a "Let's be better."

How did what the church did PROTECT THE VICTIM from danger??? “Seek counseling “ Really ?? some kid is getting raped and you tell the rapist to “seek counseling “

I am sure in some cases the hotline helps however in other cases, like this one, it doesn't go far enough. The main question is why is the LDS church doing the minimum reporting possible? Should they not be using their massive power and wealth to seek to protect victims as much as possible? Why not lobby to get a state and federal laws to protect reporters of child sexual abuse and require reporting?

The LDS church did a great job here and I’ve got to give them mad props. As a Catholic, what the bad priests and bishops in the Catholic Church has done with many of the abuses is just heinous. I just want to add a few things to the seal of confession real quick. Confession was laid out biblically in John 20:21-23. There are 4 requirements for a valid confession: contrition, confession, penance, and a resolve to never do it again. In other words, in order for a confession to be valid the person must be sorry for their sins not just because they dread the loss of heaven an the pains of hell, but most of all because they love God and have separated themselves from God (contrition). Next they must confess their sins to a priest who has the jurisdiction from his bishop to give confession in their diocese, which includes confessing what happened and as many details surrounding the situation as they can give to get the point across (confession). Then the priest gives them a penance to do after making a confession, which can vary depending on the type of sin committed. For really public scandals like murder and others, a public confession is required for validity, and many times that means going to the authorities and turning yourself in. For less serious things, penance of prayers are usually given. Finally there must be a resolution to never do it again. This doesn’t mean it won’t happen again, but it does mean you must avoid any near occasion of it happening again to the extent of it being possible because you’re a fallen creature with the temptations to do it again. If any of these 4 are lacking, then a valid confession is not present and the one will not enter heaven with a mortal sin still staining their soul.

I live in Arizona....the mormon bishops are mandatory to report any kind of abuse by law....I bet CPS of Arizona dropped the ball in this case....and maybe some of the cops did too...

Arizona Laws 12-2233. Clergyman or priest and penitent In Arizona, the law is that a clergyman cannot be compelled to testify what was confessed to him in a courtroom setting unless the privilege is waived by the penitent. IT IS A TESTIMONIAL PRIVILEGE ONLY. Read it, it's referenced above. This means that there was absolutely no legal prohibition on a bishop from reporting to authorities in Arizona. In Arizona, clergy are also not required reporters (a recent bill in Arizona that would have required clergy to be mandatory reporters failed, no doubt because of, at least in part, lobbying by the church). So when the bishops found out about the abuse they had the choice to either report or not. It's Kirton McConkie job (the "hotline") to know these laws inside and out, for every state. No doubt Kirton McConkie knew the bishops could report without any legal consequence, and they advice to the bishops not to report. Why? It seems to be a matter of policy, concocted by the church and it's lawyers, that when bishops don't have to report, the standard advice by the church's attorney's is not to report. This begs the question, from a policy and procedures perspective (meaning the actual actions taken by the church, not just the words condemning child abuse, which is the most obvious thing in the world to condemn) does the church prioritize it's own interests above the victims? A reasonable mind could conclude it does!

Holy crap...I had no idea who Tom Kimball was before this podcast. Based on this show I've looked into him. Here's what I've discovered based on the experience of the victim herself. She was abused at the age of 7 by her teenage uncle (the aforementioned Tom Kimball). She reported this abuse to her bishop (who was also the local SHERIFF!! 😠) about 6 or 7 years later as she attempted a return to church activity. What did this bishop do? Did he arrest this man? Did he get this poor girl's parents involved? Nope...he gave her the Miracle of Forgiveness and encouraged her to repent. 🙁 Another 5 or so years later she reported the abuse to her family. What did they do? Shunned her. Go ahead and judge the exmo community, I don't know enough to say if the judgement is unfair or not. But I do know another bunch of victims could've been avoided if the church had just done something when abuse was reported to them. Go listen to Dayna Kimball's story and judge for yourself. All of this just makes me sick...

I am a active member and aware of a bishop did not do the right thing and let the molester go free.

The reporter tried to make the church look as bad a possible but didn't bother to go after the mother who knew this was happening.

The helpline is to cover Liability. Shred. The Bishop was told he'd be sued. The Bishop knew, because of the confession, that the man's abuse with his minor daughter AND Infant was recorded and online.

Cardon going full send at 31:00

But I mean… the hotline clearly puts liability first…

Is it true that Joseph and hyrum smith publicly taught that polygamy was a practice of the devil.. and those who practiced it would go to hell.. can you find this public talk for us to read for ourselves.. and do you think there is a connection to that evil practice and the evil practice of abuse

The church’s published policy on its official website, titled “Protecting members and reporting abuse,” instructs bishops, branch presidents, and stake presidents that “the first responsibility of the church in abuse cases is to help those who have been abused and to protect those who may be vulnerable to future abuse.” But that's not really true, because it's also the Church's policy that confession of abuse LDS clergy is confidential where allowed by state law.

Yes 🙌 it’s good to hear the church talking with some of that pioneer fire 🔥

What is the AP doing about the abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention?

I guess I have no idea what this case is, cuz I’m totally lost here. Will someone please explain.

24:39 what the heck is a “limited confession “ sounds like legal weasel words to me!😧 If the guy confessed to “abusing his kid” in any way any decent human being would have reported this to the cops FULL STOP! This squirming legal “limited confession “ nonsense won’t cut it!

Kwaku’s certainly yucking it up taking it very seriously 😐

@6:46 What experience do you have in this matter? Do you have friends or family who have gone to a leader about abuse and it was handled differently? Because I have both friends and family who have gone through it and all of their experiences were that the church put protecting their name, above protecting the victim. If children are being put at risk, if protecting them is not the priority, then it is a giant and needs to change. It is what they are making it out to be. Stop making excuses and instead push for change.

I'm a year late to the party but why in the world are you wearing a $cientology necklace Kwaku?? 😅

You brought up that Radio Free Mormon claims he doesn't owe people anything and is not his brother's keeper. He is claiming to not have a law over himself. I wonder if that is what the Lord is getting at when he describes people going to a different place than the Celestial Kingdom. The Lord describes those going to one of the other places as, "who died without law."

You did nothing wrong but you're striving to do better

Hi my new favorite podcast, I know this was 9 months ago, but in future videos, if you’re discussing an event, please explain upfront what happened for those who don’t know. Or at least put it in the description. I had to stop the video to find the news story you were talking about. Thanks! Keep rockin’ on

Got to hand it to you guys, you got how to make absolute statements from a low base of understanding.

Let go one step further. Lets eliminate the pretense the LDS Bishops have discernment or the ability to determine when Jesus Christ has or has not forgiven someone. Eliminate the need for confession.

I'm from the South, a millstone ain't good enough...

Why don’t they tell the Bishops to call the police immediately!

Hot damn! Yeah, I mean, child abuse of any kind is a hot button issue for me too. But damn, the church definitely got this one right!

Pulling out the muskets. Oops, not supposed to say that cause it's triggering.

Interesting

The church did wrong and now they have to figure out a way to dig themselves out of the trouble they're in.

Either way you wanna slice it this shows that the church's top priority is protecting its name and protecting against lawsuits

If you look at the twitter comments many come out and say "ive worked in the help line." They make stuff up to be a witness.

You're making it sound like the helpline is available for members to call. Even if that's not what you think that's how you're coming across. The helpline is is only available to the leaders

Great work, guys.

This girl's family failed her. Her mother and father. For years. The limited confession didn't allow for reporting by the LDS bishop. The LDS bishops follow the law. AZ law is what it is. The bishop needed the victim's family to self-report. They didn't.

The problem with listening to a one sided argument like happens with anti mormon dissenters is like hearing a one partners reason for having a divorce...

Its clear by comments here and even some statements made in the podcast that the law isn't clearly understood by many. So here are some points to consider. Firstly abuse against children is egregious, but the law doesn't get to be thrown aside because we don't like the crime committed. And the law has always been about protecting the rights of individuals, criminal and otherwise. The law has allowed that when it comes to individuals dealing with religious institutions/churches, there is an allowance for confidentiality between worshippers and the clergy. Meaning that confessions that involve admission of crimes cannot be given to law enforcement to be enacted upon because the confessor has an accepted right of confidentiality with the church. This is one of those aspects of separation of church and state. The church, meaning a bishop who is told disturbing information, cannot act as an authority of the state. In Utah at least, I know there is an exception in the law that if a clergy believes that abuse or a crime is continuing and that not reporting will endanger more people, then they can inform authorities. Not sure if this is the same in Arizona or even what the deeper nuances of this case are. The point is, for a church organization to exist, it must operate within the bounds of the law. It cannot be the law unto itself no matter the crime. Remember our Father in Heaven is in control. The worth of every soul is great in the eyes of God. The healing power of Christ is complete and eternal. His kingdom come, HIs will be done.

Thanks for your videos guys! Do you guys have a podcast? I couldn't find it.

This guy got kicked out of ByU

Again… exmormon isn’t a religion nor does it claim to have all the answer and speak to god…

Kwaku, “We are upset with the bishop and the State.” The bishop picked up the phone to call a hotline and followed legal counsel that allowed abuse to continue for years. The hotline does not protect victims. The church system failed these two children. Trying to get someone else to report while having a confession from the abuser and sitting on your hands is pathetic. Then the church in its 2nd statement claims this type of response should be sufficient is even more pathetic. If the church does ever report abuse in states that do not require then why in the hell did they not do it in this case? Make you ask the question if the only report if required by law. Feel free to go on your anti-exmormon rants and your false equivalencies on another topic, but it’s time to admit the church needs to address serious problems with abuse and reporting.

No you wouldn't. You would say they're Boomers and that's just what they did in their time, no prophet is perfect. this doesn't hurt my testimony. 11:40

How many details are needed to report or justify reporting? Two bishops knew what happened during the 7 year period of abuse. Both were able to report. They were told not to. The liar is the church. Look at the questions asked when bishops call in to the helpline. Each of you acknowledge the victims. Each of you admi you don't know the details. However, one video points out exactly what the bishops knew by the bishops' own admission. Defending the church will not solve this inappropriate helpline issue. The church is at fault for not reporting and there are several cases that verify this as an ongoing problem. Bishops call the Police when churches are vandalized but not when children are abused.

Latter Day Bad Takes is a more appropriate name for your channel. Interested in how this video will age in a few months.

You guys are arguing the wrong points. I'm not sure if you are lying or the point of the argument is going over your head. No one is concerned if there is a helpline or not. The problem people are having is the leaders are instructed to call the helpline before contacting the police if they contact the police at all.

Great show! Liked how you called out exmos hypocrisy with a timeline ... SAVAGE!

8:30 It's not that people want a bunch of kids to be abused, it's simply very satisfying to see Mormons be wrong and be shown that their leaders aren't wonderfully glorious people who should be put up on pedestals as if they're some kind of angelic ministers. the reason it's satisfying is because of how insufferable many LDS people are about their faith. The LDS church has dozens of books written about why other faiths are wrong or bad and it's fun to watch the members squirm and wail and gnash their teeth when their leaders are caught doing the exact same things. I don't necessarily feel that way but that's what I think they're feeling

The Bishop should have called the police.

I’m convinced ya’ll are the 3 Nephites in present day 😏😏😏

Of course the church’s own literature will say the helpline is for helping the victims…that doesn’t validate that that’s the priority. You guys are quick to criticize the Catholic Church when something like this happens. You believe those victims. Hope there isn’t hypocrisy involved on your part. Exmo helpline:911. Lol, that’s the point many of us are making haha.

It's never a surprise at what the is whitewashed amongst the enemies of the Church and the microscope used on their criticisms

13:20 “ dealt with in good faith to the Nth degree by the church “ You guys should work for Baron Munchausen! 🤣🤣🤣

This video won’t age well

I don't think I can put into words how much I hate this episode...the degree people will go to justify their tribe is gross. Anyone who thinks the helpline to Kirton McKonkie is there to "help victims" is delusional. I'm not familiar with this Kimball guy, I'll look into it. It's fascinating to see you guys suggest his case is "cut and dry" while the LDS church's response to this particular case of abuse is "complicated". I'm fascinated at the personal moral lines in the sand one will draw. You go hog on the evils of the Catholic Church and their scandals but defend the LDS church because they have not "moved a seminary teacher around" 🤔 I've seen zero evidence that the bishop, Kirton McKonkie, or the LDS church cared about the victims in this case beyond perhaps sadly shaking their heads and shrugging their shoulders. In fact the church's lawyer has described this lawsuit by the victim as a "money grab". What a piece of garbage. There are plenty of abuse cases in the LDS church, they are easy to find. They include bishops and seminary teachers and youth leaders. There are plenty of documented cases where victims and abusers where told not to involve the authorities. Your tithing money has no doubt gone to millions of dollars in settlements. These claims of "other people suck too" are ridiculous. Do better.

Brad, if you think the helpline is to help victims then your clearly out of touch. Police help victims we know that for sure. It even falls under the risk management department and forwards to the legal team and not the Presiding Bishop who one would think would be able to confer with god about saving little children.

Earned a subscriber.

Unsubscribed. Endorsing child abuse is not why I subscribed to this channel. So grotesque!!