music is haram

😂​@@user-zg2bx4oz2p

Music is haram

Yes music is HARAM

Can verify music is indeed haram

@@scaffus no idea. Regardless of my taste in music, the music was stealing the show from what I would describe as a very important message that lots of engineers have to hear way more often.

I’m going to steal your `sshtty` bit 👌

nice😂 ssh tty now has one more meaning

@@knowledgedose1956 I was messing with my ssh keys at the time of writing the op so it came naturally to me. Glad u noticed. Have a nice day

hot fixing? no one talks like that. learn to be human.

😭😂🤣. Bro paid you for saving his ears

When are you donating us poor souls?

😆😆

Exactly. I’m really looking for a way to reduce our company’s AWS bill but this just wont cut it

Well, if you have 1 devops then your cost is already six figures. And cloud doesn't fix it, as most developers are too bad with cloud stuff so you'll still need to hire someone with an expertise or suffer the consequences.

​​@@cloudboogie"most devs are bad with cloud stuff" hmmm... What? I see people developing/certifying themselves on it every single day man, and taking into account how many jobs there are available on that field... Just makes no sense unless you're thinking about the 40yo+ devs that have a beard, yellow glasses, "I'm on arch btw" and still think WSL is a desecration of the Linux Kernel or something.

@@Jossarianz move to another provider - running your containers under VMs i.e. Linode, Equinix Metal, Digital Ocean, Vultur

for real. Have any of you been through a process-related audit (e.g. SOX, NIST, PCI, HIPAA)? Every single process in your enterprise will be reviewed, with varying degrees of thoroughness, depending on your industry. Your "it runs faster if I host it from the PC under my desk!" attitudes represent real risk to the company you work for. _Everything_ has to be logged, everything has to be auditable, and (at this point) nothing does that as well as public cloud.

Well, you are still going to use the cloud, but it will be Linode or Digital Ocean, which are way cheaper than AWS.

The music mafia got to him

He's an aussie, Bezos has no power over him.

@@AUniqueHandleName444 I don't think the music is from Amazon tho

Did he get trapped inside one of his own Docker containers?

The AWS death squadron is coming for you

Exactly. Getting something to ”work“ and maintaining something are completely different things.

Everything is In your word trust. You trust until one day you notice issues in your data, then you open a ticket, the answer is yes we lost your data. You field a claim, the answer is in the contract your responsible for your data saving... Then you wonder why the cloud at the first point 😂

Most companies grossly underestimate the costs Also.. imagine trusting aws

@@user-vb9vc1es3o me when backups do not exist

@@user-vb9vc1es3o "notice issues in your data". A competent software engineer would be able to discover the origin of these data issues and address them appropriately. The scenario you laid out assumes that the data/software engineer is not qualified for the role and needs to be let go.

Bro really. Make a tutorial replicate this one using Kamal I can help you with the configuration

what was it like before?

That's still a lot. Can you rewrite it into an efficient language with efficient algorithms to where a single node is sufficient?

​@@vcoolif a startup is able to logically expense the cost of a full rewrite to save $1k/year they either don't have a product or won't have any staff soon.

@@vcoolrewriting a product can take 100’s of 1000’s of $, and can potentially fail.

I'm also looking at something like Hetzner Cloud with k3s. I kind of still want to outsource DB to something like Neon or CoachroachDB, but cloud compute is too expensive, especially if your app is mostly I/O bound. Most of our line of business apps are literally sitting at sub 1% CPU on the smallest AWS Fargate instances

Agreed. You probably already know but ECS isn't just docker like mentioned in the vid, it'll automate provisioning servers to scale to your traffic in a rubber-banding effect (hence elastic). When mentioned in the video that it's 'preferred to have the site crash and then provision more servers' makes me cringe because while that's fine for a random person's website that can be detrimental to a business whose infrastructure failed just as they may have finally gained the traffic they worked hard to get, and once user's see hiccups in your service then that's a lasting impression that you aren't trustworthy. There's ways of using cloud without being locked down to a provider.

​@@coreycollins8554 Yeah it's never preferable to have the site crash, this guy has almost certainly never worked in a proper tech company if he recommends this. The bare minimum for an app with business customers is multi AZ and 4 nines - they likely wouldn't sign a contract for an app that does less. Docker swarm isn't a solution as stated in the video, since a powercut still kills all of your machines at once. No replication of customer data is a liability issue. No node autoscaling, and it's not really feasible to automate that at home. No CDN, so the frontend will load horrifically slow from a different country. There's many reasons we use PaaS.

"I've never seen anyone actually use multi regions on the cloud for their services" ok yeah that's the nail in the coffin for this video

​@@coreycollins8554 In this context it, ECS is a term of abstraction. Docker is just an core component of that abstraction. SLA is up to client to choose. If you implement "ECS" in house you pick and choose the requirements. That includes hardware(owned/rented) and location(s).

And get shoved down the throat a 10k bill at the end of the month because you have no idea what you’re doing

Software updates for the most part are supposed to be automated or otherwise skippable.

@@vcool How would you automate software updates? You need to check if the application is still running after an update and be ready to revert the update if it fails. Plus you also need to check your homegrown solution if it is still compatible with the newer versions of the software it relies on. There's a reason why business spend so much on Amazon, because they would spend much more if they would do it themselves.

​@@youtubevideos415tools like Jenkins are great for testing before deployment. All the automation software has processes to check for updates at build which generally happens at use, so the flow could be fully automated. While I believe Amazon is obviously more stable, you'll still need experts to understand, setup, monitor and grow. I guess for me I'd rather have the autonomy to fix things to work for me, and not essentially allow my company to be owned and operated by Amazon. Also AWS really just makes hardware easily accessible. Everything going on in the background needs someone to get paid to monitor it.

thank you, finally a voice of reason. also, what happens if the power goes out at your office? or your internet provider goes down? or the CTO spills coffee on the server? or the disk fails? are your users going to wait around while you drive to Best Buy? like I get the hate for the AWS alphabet soup services, but there's a middle ground between that and a box under your desk like it's the 90s. look at Digital Ocean, Hetzner Cloud, Linode, etc.

The cloud isn't gonna maintain itself either. You got shared responsibility. Or you end up paying another MSP for doing that.

For 10+ less money bruh

and 10+ more skills and know-how which you usually dont have at the beggining since you are newbie :)

You still have to configure all these tools in AWS, and if you doing it properly, using IaC. The best middle ground IMO is something like Hetzner Cloud with k3s, and still outsourcing DB

@@kabal911 you are reading my mind thats the perfect balanced solution

@@kabal911 kubernetes + LBs on hetzner and DBs on aws

It really did just sweep the industry by storm and people haven’t looked back at all 😢

@@Macheako Self hosting can be a major pain or outright impossible in some situations. You have to have a stable IP and you're ISP has to be ok with you hosting. If neither are true, then you simply can't self host. You could move, but that's quite the major life change just to avoid using someone else's computer.

@@Beakerbite That's what colocation datacenters are for. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colocation_centre

@@Beakerbite Or maybe its about time to force ISPs to give all customers static IP leases without expiration on demand at no charge. I don't believe that there is any reasonable explanation that can excuse this failure.

@@Moe_Posting_Chad Won't work unless we all switch to ipv6

Okay, so we run RDS with backups. Cool. Where do you want to host your compute? Your compute needs to be hosted close to the database or else the database hops are going to end up costing you a lot of latency, not to mention the traffic costs at the edge for the connection into AWS coming from public internet. (additionally there's security concerns here now because your database is exposed publicly rather than living in the confines of an AWS VPC. Okay, the security issue here can be solved with properly configured security groups to limit connections in, but the requirements are stacking up here, and this is an easy step to miss for a team that's not savvy on security) Then there's the question of routing into your compute. Amazon makes this insanely easy with ELBs (Elastic Load Balancer). With your home internet provider, you'll either have a dynamic IP, or be straight up natted and you'll have a very difficult time routing to your system. The dynamic IP can be worked around with tools that will monitor your public IP address and update DNS records accordingly, but this is another piece of infrastructure to manage, and there's no way to do it with zero downtime. To get reliable static IPs you're talking about creating a datacenter, and a datacenter specifically close to AWS datacenters where they've already bought up the best land in the area for that purpose. It's also a giant upfront cost in terms of money and time for a startup that needs to be quick to market. Self hosting is a LOT more than running a couple of containers on a machine.

@@patrickrobertshaw7020I would just set up a vpn to my database, something like zerotier, it’s super fast and doesn’t need to know your ip address. You don’t need to open up any ports on your firewall for it to work. For serving you app you can use something like Cloudfront tunnels. Or just buy a cheap 1-5$ vps and set your nginx on it. Although I prefer Traefik.

​@@patrickrobertshaw7020 "or be straight up natted" " already bought up the best land in the area for that purpose." You can write comments normally lol

The more I learn the more I realize the solution is to bullshit other people at work. No matter what industry or what role, just bullshit a sense of competence and results. I remember one company, I lied about literally everything on the application, in the interview, and even when I was "working." The wrong people were pleased and the right people were mad but powerless to inflict on me personally any consequence. The whole world works like this. Everyone should just start doing it as much as possible. Grind the system to a halt.

"the video LITERALLY FUC.. ING showed what I do for a living." Why do people write like this?

Which is paradoxical since it is only by paying upfront for the resources you plan to use that you can get the best pricing, the true spirit of the whole thing what was pitched years ago when the whole thing started.

@@TheS0meguy yes that's true and it is annoying. We offer a SaaS solution on AWS and we are working hard on cost optimization even though we have long term customers. If you can use spot instances then maybe you can have an advantage but for us it is not feasible. But we do benefit in that way that we have batch workloads where you would have to buy a lot of extra capacity if you used classic servers.

I've worked at a company that had their own servers sitting in Rackspace in a Datacenter nearby, the datacenter bill was laughbale compared to what we would've spent in the cloud, and surprisingly, 5 year old servers don't perform too bad. We were running on OpenShift and ArgoCD, including some very tight network firewall rules, meaning we could only log in to the control planes of those nodes from a Remote Desktop within the DC. It was honestly quite intruiging.

@@AstralJaeger if that fits your workload it is the best option. Server rental is always cheaper than cloud. But if you have a workload where you need like 5 servers for 4 hours and 1 for the rest of the day it can be problematic. On the other hand if you need fast disk I/O, servers are nearly always better as on AWS it is either slow AF or costs you an arm and a leg.

@@mudi2000a Oh I fully agree, it was a long term hosted SaaS Product that was hosted in 3 datacenters over 3 european countries. It was honestly impressive how far you can get when your are unwilling to spend money. But I still think you can host on AWS and Azure without getting fully locked in, but then it would be cheaper to just rent a dedicated box on Hetzner for 50$/mo

Likewise lol

Same!

“Although it is significantly simpler than running your own tools.” Wut.

When you need certifications to do something, then it isn't simple. What this video went through is the absolute rock bottom of competence, because the level of understanding required is low, and you can get by mainly following instructions. You can't do this in a day, you shouldn't work as a software engineer.

Using a hybrid Cloud Model with Focus on bare-metal 😉

Leah ?

Lawliet?

Mine allows it

Haven't run into one that blocks that in the last 10+ years

It's often more technical than an allow/disallow policy to the ISP. If your ISP implements a CGNAT network, it's not feasible to host because you're NATTED in some private subnet so incoming packets wouldn't know where to go. Luckily many ISPs are adopting ipv6, which can provide a real IP for every device in your network, so you can get something working. I've also worked around this with a remote hosted reverse proxy tunnel, but that isn't the best long term

@@dv_xl Yeah, the fact that routing is left as an exercise to the reader here, and he spent literally 10 seconds talking about pointing DNS to your website makes this an absolutely insane video. It's just a docker compose demo, which anyone thinking about self hosting is already well versed in

@@patrickrobertshaw7020What is there to say about it? "If you're lucky and not behind a CGNAT by your ISP you can directly point the DNS to your IP, otherwise you'll need to pay for or setup a reverse proxy with a public IPv4"?

Everyone I've ever seen advocating for microservices has been an engineer. Engineers like it because they can start something new all the time without having to maintain ugly code. Don't like service x, let's re-write it as service y. It doesn't make sense from an engineering perspective but spinning up new services sure is fun.

Microservices are good in the correct context, but that is usually very specific and not applicable once it needs to know too much data. We use micro services for our API interfaces/bridges because they don't need to know anything. Allows us to scale them really fast

Microservices can be abused but when used correctly can be very effective. Each service is supposed to act as though other services may be down and can operate somewhat independently, preventing the classic "1 dev added a new feature that's bugged and now the whole website/system is offline". Services can also be in different tech stacks to fit their needs - some are ML workers and need pytorch, basic backend services are made in Go, performant critical services are made in Rust, etc. Large scale projects can be broken into smaller domains where each subteam or dev can work on their own API / spec without needing to understand the complexities of everything, which also helps with Agile teams who are focused on continuous deliverables especially as the product needs change over time. And with services deployed as pods we can automate horizontally scaling up a service if the traffic is hitting hard at that particular moment while keeping the other services scaled down to their own needs - rather than the monolith as a whole scaling up which may be unnecessary. I'm not a middle manager btw lol.

@@coreycollins8554 But if you run everything on the same computer, you don't have so many things that can go wrong. Many more ways for a network call to fail vs a library function call. Modern computers are so crazy fast, you can get a lot of users on the same machine without putting a bunch of services in the middle. APIs have existed long before people put HTTP calls between them to slow them down. Distributed computed is needed sometimes for some problems, but way less often than what people think.

redis isn't letting them do it any more. I wouldn't doubt if more oss start heading this way.

If you call me a hypocrite for using s3… try beating about $200 last month bill for s3 but $208k of revenue. Yeah I’m not spending one minute of my day to optimize that. But the fun part is on premise I don’t have to optimize anything, ever. 32 gigs of ram per tenant ? Database server + redis + single tenant app per customer? Sure. Done. Easy. AWS is like hundreds of dollars per month for a couple cores and a couple gigs

Would you suggest K8 for a single node server? I 'm deploying customer projects on VMs and trying to dockerize the process. I 've never touched K8 or Swarm, and just stick to compose, but I 'm not confident it's a stable solution.

That’s exactly his point. This thinking that you shouldn’t use Docker alone…

Totes. Just pay your way into submission. Not worth thinking your way to success.

I'm curious too

From my experience having worked at a startup, it is absolutely in the ballpark.

if you factor in loss of engineering time to build and maintain owned data center, would it still cost less?

@@mananshah3248 Yes absolutely. Managing AWS infrastructure is just as expensive as managing your own data center, always. There's a reason why some of the internal Amazon teams are moving off of AWS into internal "self managed" data centers. (note: all data centers are on "aws" because we're all using the same data centers, "aws" is just a tool/ui overlay)

​@@mananshah3248have you factored in engineering time for thikering with API, control panels, sizing, aux services and integrations on AWS?

Just to give an update on this. We purposely change names of tools and mechanisms from industry standard (for example security groups are just firewalls) just to hide the underlying mechanisms because we don't want customers to realize that AWS is literally just a UI wrapper over open source products for the most part. If you're not a real engineer, this is not an issue. But once your business starts to become larger and hit scaling capacity considerations, your engineers will never learn what is the actual bottleneck because our documentation is purposely written just to onboard customers and has very few details about how it actually is working. This has a lot of important issues because your architects will never be able to fully architect an efficient system because they will not know the actual issues until they happen. (this is why we are now offering ProServ to "help" people architect a more effective infra...but we charge a lot for that) So on the cost of management side, I would strongly argue that managing your own infrastructure is by far and away easier than managing cloud infrastructure. It is also by far more secure because you don't even need to open your internal data centers externally; whereas AWS is always available to the public, so you have to manage your own private networks carefully. In fact, a great way to evaluate your engineer's depth of actual software engineering knowledge is how scared they are to build an internal infrastructure as compared to cloud infrastructure. A good engineer should have more confidence when given more self-managed controls. A bad engineers would argue all these nonsense about not knowing how to do things yourself and cloud managed services is a great advantage.

Realistically, how often does your power go out? If the answer is even somewhat often, you might want to find a new office space/landlord.

Thats what UPS and redundant internet lines are for. If it happens consistently its time to get a new ISP/Landlord/Power provider. This is a non-issue as if the internet and power goes out, so does your access to the cloud so your employees still cant work

Nop. Majority of large companies are doing this.

​@@ahp-6785Then those large companies have skill issues 🙃