There is a big difference between git gud and beat the tutorial.

Food reviewers are food experts, book reviewers have a good understanding of literature, game reviewers should be expected to finish a bloody tutorial.

No, the debate should be "SHOULD GAMING JOURNALISTS BE ABLE TO FINISH THE TUTORIAL?"

All these years later. The argument of "a games journalist should be able to understand and play any game they review" still holds up as the correct statement. Imagine for a moment that an automobile journalist couldn't drive a car. They would be fired. The same rule should apply here.

Guys, seriously, here's the dealio: Being good at writing is the most basic qualification to do any kind of journalism whatsoever. If you decide to specifically do GAMING journalism you need to have an additional skillset, otherwise there'd be no point in specialization at all. I don't think anyone can honestly call this opinion unreasonable.

I think matpat is correct, since we never asked for the reviewers to be pro, just that they could at least be able to understand simple mechanics

15:10 At that point, Matpat should have won. I don’t care if this is deadlock, that should have been the final damage to set his debate hp to 0!

Matt clearly won this. You don't have to ace the game to give a solid review, just play enough of the game to give an accurate portrayal of it.

Nobody said a game reviewer has to be a pro at games, but you have to at least be able to make it past the tutorial. And as a journalist, writing should be your main requirement. But as a GAME journalist, one should have BOTH gaming and writing skills.

“GIT GUD” isn’t the right term for a “gamer” that can’t even pass the tutorial, more like GIT BRAIN

As "genre" based these reports are, it's not that hard to press two buttons in quick succession. The dash is not that flipping hard

Ah yes, my favourite book. *Five at Freddy's: The Eyes* 4:59

This literally isn't a debate. A guy that reviews games for a living should be able to complete a tutorial quicker than a 5 year old period

At the very least, we can all agree that a gaming journalist should be decent enough to get through the tutorial in a reasonable time.

Mat is absolutely right here! As a gamer and consumer, I care more about seeing the playthroughs of actual gamers and actual people than reading a review of a writer who may or may not have even played the game to begin with. As a result, game journalists barely even get any time out of me, but KZfaq and Twich get hours of my time each week not to mention follows and subs.

As a trained writer, I'm with Matt every time.

Nobody said he had to be pro level he just had to be competent

I’m both a writer and a gamer and proficient in RPGs, Shooters, Platformers, and most games in general. I do not claim that I can beat every game, nor most games, but I agree with MatPat. Game journalists need to be proficient in a multitude of genres, just like can be and should be profienced in a multitude of different writing styles as a writer.

8:35 Dean said himself that he'd been playing platformers for basically the entirety of his game journalism career (21 years at the time he wrote about cuphead)

Asking if game journalists should know how to play games well, is the same as asking if firefighters should know how to extinguish a fire

Basically, you don't have to be the very best like no one ever was, but you should be able to defeat A LEVEL 5 MAGIKARP, GODDAMMIT!

MatPat wins. If a reviewer doesn't know how to play a game, they won't be able to properly inform the reader about the content

Who else watching this after KZfaq polls got removed so can't see the results

“All publicity is good publicity.” Mass broadcast review site: “This game sucks.” Yeah. Not all publicity is good publicity. Also, if you can’t beat a tutorial when the instructions are right on the screen, you don’t deserve your cushy job. If your job requires you to give a good look of the content to the viewers, you should be able to get to the goddamn content in the first place.

I don't know that the reviewers have to become experts in every genre, but they definitely need to "git average". Image if there was a narcoleptic film critic that fell asleep after 15 minutes of every movie they watched? No matter how good their writing, they're simply not going to be qualified when it comes to reviewing and scoring that film. This is essentially where some of these game journalists are. Their lack of skills is limiting their ability to be exposed to the thing that they are writing about. Sure, there are time constraints to writing. but if a reviewer who puts 16 hours into a game before writing about it isn't where the average player is 16 hours in, they are simply insufficiently informed about the content of the thing about which they are writing to provide an adequate level of review.

I love Geoff but Matpat is right. Nobody benefits from rushed deadlines and inexperienced reviewers. The man took a minute and a half to properly perform a 2 button sequence. A PUZZLE game requires more from the player than that.

4:13 "are they there to see you S rank all of the bosses , or are they drawn in by your winning personality?" if that was me i'd say it's obviously the first one, because my personality in described in 1 word: none

The Actual Interview to be a video game Journalist: “Have You ever touched a video game before?” Interviewee: “No” Journalist: “Perfect welcome aboard”

I don't even think the Cuphead tutorial is a test of skill, it's a test of common sense. My Mom is 63 and she got it in about 20 seconds. (Of course I'm conveniently leaving out the part where she and I used to play Contra 2-player and beat it multiple times without the 30 lives code, oops)

Your job is literally playing videogames and telling people if they are good. Im not saying you've gotta be amazing, but my God, if you're as bad as that dude at the tutorial, you are probably in the wrong industry.

So basically "insted of representing some games right they will misrepresent nearly all games.

walks into a wall for a minute straight Geoff: yes. good.

I agree with Matt. I mean, no, they don't need to be perfect.... But at least don't be an absolute potato at such a simply controlled game!

A reviewer should not have to MASTER a game to write a casual article about it, but if they know a game so little that they can't even get through the tutorial then they just need to spend more time playing the game. A reviewer should understand what it would take for an average player to become skilled at the game, regardless weather he/she/they are actually good at it themselves. A reviewer who writes an article on a game they don't completely understand from a gamer's point of view is like an athlete competing in a bike race on foot.

They don’t have to be good, just able to understand BASIC video game mechanics.

I agree with Mat in this situation, because I have seen too many game journalists rate Cuphead a 3/10 because the can't beat Root Pack on their first try.

Two years later and still a relevent topic.

MatPat's comments are the exact reason I stopped paying for Game Informer and gave up on reading Game Reviews entirely. Any game I care about, I'll play it or watch a Let's Play and decide for myself. Can't be bothered with people who are paid to give a certain opinion.

All we ask of game journalists is to have A) basic reading skills B) problem solving abilities C) understand video game mechanics

I’d love to see a book called “The Freddys:The Eyes”

I think a GAME journalist should be able play and understand enough of the game to write a honest review ABOUT the ACTUAL GAME.

My vote was Git Good, but I think it would be more accurate to say "Get relatively decent". No, I don't think a game journalist should be a master at all games, but I am sure the Master Street Fighter Player could still relatively decently play Cuphead. Don't git good, just git adequate.

Geoff: Focusing on the corperate aspects of the job. Looking at it with the check in mind and nothing else. He is saying that as long as you can write something that is about a game, weather its actually informative to the players or true doesnt matter. I get the feeling hes okay with journalists taking money from game companies to write favorable reviews. Cause techniacally its a review of a game. Matt: If you're going to be a gaming journalist that is true to the craft then you need to meet two requirements. The first being you like video games and playing them is a passion to you. 2. Afrer completing the game you are able to write and/or make a video where you give your honest opinions and feelings on the content you just experienced. I agree wholeheartedly with Matt. Gamers are really not into reviewers who are only in it for the money and don't actually have a passion for gaming. As soon as you are found out to be a fraud you will be shunned by the gaming community and probably wont last much longer. Besides, even if you arent caught red handed (like not being able to play cupheads tutorial or repeatedly praising games that clearly dont deserve it...things like that) and all you do is write mediocre/passable content, gamers arent going to be interested in your reviews anyway. Why dont you try your hand in politics? Pleanty of room to write for conservatives or liberals and its much less complicated.

I'm not so sure if the completion of a simple tutorial is a requirement of being a journalist, but rather a requirement of *anyone who can understand simple instructions and push a button.*

HE COULDN'T DO A DASH-JUMP

Yes, they absolutely need to git gud. I don't expect all games journalists to be god-like pros, but struggling to finish a tutorial is pathetic and atrocious. It's analogous to, say, a pre-pubescent child "reviewing" sex. Any opinions or accounts simply cannot be trustworthy as the party in question lacks the tools, experience, and vocabulary to be reputable. There is a bare minimum of proficiency required for a source to be trusted

"if you can see this, i'm impressed" Alright Closed Captions.

Would you trust a person who hasn't played the game about how to beat a boss or someone who actually beat it

No one is asking for journalists to be able to speedrun games on their first try. What we want is for a minimum skill level. Not perfect, but not mediocre for christ sake.

nobody wants a pro player, but we DEMAND someone who can master the MOST BASIC skills to progress in the game. I dont care if you can 100% the game, but you'd better be able to complete the main plot at least once, or else you ARE NOT QUALIFIED to write a review on the subject

Bro if a food critic can’t make scrambled eggs without burning them severely, would you argue in their favor because they’re good at writing?

Mat wins because if a game writer doesn't enjoy that genre, they might give it a bad review and make millions of people not buy a game they were exited for and create a loss for everybody except the journalist's company.

They don't need to be experts, just to be game literate and understand what you're playing

I swear, if another person says "The Dark Souls of _______" I'll dreamnail your mind out.

Kinda wished they continued with this series

I might just become a game journalist out of spite.

Anyone defending takahashi should atleast know that, he gave mass effect a bad review because, he didnt "know" he could level up, and he wrote that "the bosses are impossible to beat, bad game" it isnt that game journalists are only bad at games, it is that some, seem to not understand the basics of games, and of an specific game genre, and this is just basic research, just freaking google: "basic mechanics of..." and the problem is gone.

I think that if you're going to be a game reviewer, you need to be a jack of all trades to do your job well. You can be better at some games then others, but if your job requires you to cover multiple genres or styles of games you need to at least be able to grasp the basics.

Can we please bring back Deadlock?

If you still read these guys, do another deadlock. These are fun and fresh.

If you can't even finish a tutorial then why did you even apply for a job that your task is to play games.

Why is this a question? Yes journalists should have enough skill to be able to play games well enough to get through them

We haven't had any of these for THREE YEARS

Not being able to play a game properly and then writing about them is like being a book reviewer and at the same being illiterate.

"All publicity is good publicity" I think PewDiePie would disagree

You don't need to be a pro, but at least be able to beat the tutorial. Again that 5 year old did that jump in 7 seconds.

I know I am late but it's actually very informative for someone to write about a game in a genre they are new to as we get a new player perspective which is great for those that are new to the genre.

My five year is obsessed with cuphead and does an amazing job playing it. He's still learning multitasking with shooting AND dodging, but he figured out some of the controls faster than I did, even. That guy taking that long to do a dash jump when it literally spells out what to do on the screen is just embarrassing. I truly believe game journalists need to be at LEAST above average in their play and knowledge of the game.

I don't expect reviewers to be amazing at games, I expect them to at least be competent.

Am I the only one that kinda misses the old format of deadlock? When it had the gaming avatars on the bottom attacking the opponent's avatar?

I'm gonna have to go with Mat on this one. Of course writing is important and getting reviews out for multiple products. That's extremely important. However, a lot of games only get interesting after going farther into it. They dont need to cover the whole game sure, but seeing only one part of it could likely diminish the credibility of the review. Especially if it's hard for the reviewer to finish a tutorial. Having more things to compare a game to and having knowledge of it makes it more reliable. A lot of games take some time before you really begin to get a feel for what's going on. Like Duck Season. It has a bunch of different things to do, but it takes a while before you actually get to the interesting part of the game. Same for Doki Doki Literature club. It takes a while for things to get interesting.

Honestly the journalist not being able to beat the tutorial created a lot of memes and got the game really popular! He also showed a little funny haha glitch of NOCLIPPING congrats journalist you have created the biggest meme of cuphead

That is why I go to KZfaq for my reviews. So the reviewer reviews genres they LIKE instead of whatever is thrown out, it just makes it more reliable

Would you review a book if you haven't fully read it?If you can't at least complete the game once how even can you review it?

The argument for the game reviewers at the end of it is basically omg it’s too hard to be an expert in my field of review while also being an expert in the English language so this is the best we can do.. Basically I understand why they’re subpar now, and why that’s not likely to change for the industry, so I’m just gonna get similar content elsewhere

The concept that "Its okay if the writer is bad because they at least did some work." is probably the dumbest angle I've ever heard. There's no other industry that would even try that sort of take.

They reviewers don't have to be Pro players, but they have to at least be ok. For example some review sights review Destiny's raids and most of them complain about challenge and how mechanics are demanding, but all it takes is time and a little skill and every raid is a piece of cake. Yeah King's fall is brutal but that was on purpose. Bungie said that they wanted the raid to kick you where it hurts the most and if your teams communication wasn't on point then it was time to improve.

2:07 *"OR LIKE THE COMMENTS ON YOUR UNDERTALE VIDEO"* THAT actually made me scream at how good that roast was

Sweet intro dude! this is the first deadlock episode I’ve seen okay?

I know you're busy with the new channel (enjoy food theory), but any plans to do any more Deadlock episodes? (VR vs traditional gaming)

There is literally no excuse that a person writing a review for a game should take that long to do something like that in a tutorial, not when the instructions are literally written on screen. Just... no. Throw out the article, toss it to someone more competent. I am not asking for a pro. Just someone who can understand the very minimum I expect from any 'gamer'.

Quality > Quantity

what i think they should do is have the journalist have a semi game play were if they are having trouble with a section they can have an player with experience so they can see the story and other key things while also seeing the game play that might need lots of skill

I can agree with some of these points. No, a game journalist doesn't need to be an absolute pro, but they should at least be able to complete the main storyline before writing a full review. It's like a book reviewer stopping before they finish the first chapter.

Simple fix: Have a journalist pair up with an experience gamer so that they can experience the game and write about it professionally, sure, the experience will be second-hand but it's better then getting the "it's too hard" review again. And while you can argue that the reviewer can just go online to watch videos instead, I would recommend the duo system as that allows the reviewer and gamer to bounce opinions off of one another to create the most accurate articles

I don't need a game journalist to be an expert. I don't need them to complete a game either, but I do need them to have some basic understanding of the genre of the game that they're playing. I don't want to read a review of an fps by someone that can't stand fps. What's the point in that?

I don’t think anyone has to be an expert at a game to write a review, but I think it’s reasonable to expect someone who is rating a game to be able to complete the tutorial. I don’t think we’re asking for very much here.

I miss this so much

Well I don't think that journalists need to be experts at a game. They just need to be at least competent.

Git adequate.

Can we get a second series of this?

I just rewatched the video and I just realised that a main point for the Git writing side was the time taken to finish a game. You dont have to finish a game to get a sense of it, for example you dont have to finish cup head to understand the quality

Geoff’s argument is basically like saying a new station sending the weatherman to cover a football game. Gaming websites need to have specific writers or teams of writers for certain games just like we have specific talents for different aspects of news

You're moving the goalposts, Geoff. No one expects reviewers to be extremely good at the games they're reviewing, we just need them to be good enough to provide a fair review of a game. How can we trust the word of a reviewer whose gameplay proves that he does not even understand the basics of the genre? That he can't even put two and two together within a reasonable time frame and realise that jumping off of an elevated platform will let you reach otherwise platforms that are otherwise too high? I don't think that's even an issue of gaming skill at that point, it's literally common sense since it's something everyone will encounter in their life; something out of reach? Get a chair to stand on.

How does it take a minute and a half to do one jump when it is literally telling you the controls

Matpat wins this debate. He has a cohesive argument filled with relevant points backed by sound logic. His opponent falls short and simply tries to deflect the question or divert attention away from matpat’s point whenever he can’t do anything

id say at least git "decent"

The point is... They do not need to be expert gamers... But they cannot give a game a score based on difficulty just because they can't play it themselves without actually taking other things in consideration.

this is so intense its like watching live from courtroom

A game journalist should at least be able to pass the tutorial of a game. Especially when the tutorial has the instructions written on the wall. The entire Cuphead tutorial is just a blank background with text telling you how the mechanics work. There's no excuse for ANYONE to have trouble figuring that out.