The Debate We All Want on Spiritual Gifts, John MacArthur vs Dr. Michael Brown, Part 2

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The Debate We All Want on Spiritual Gifts, John MacArthur vs Dr. Michael Brown, Part 2

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Пікірлер: 304

@Hifil07 3 жыл бұрын

In Africa, being exposed to so many manifestations of witchcraft can only do one thing to you: seek the power of God. We understood that only having a solid theology doesn't protect you, your family and change situations. (I've heard and witnessed some weird stuff)

@darkincognito3826 3 жыл бұрын

Preach it man.

@leborapulana9813 3 жыл бұрын

I'm an African and I agree...Its almost impossible to alienate yourself from the beautiful and liberating Gifts of the Spirit because of the dire need we have as Africans.

@kingpauljoel6827 3 жыл бұрын

In africa even the atheist know that is difficult to deny the existence of witchcraft.

@leborapulana9813 3 жыл бұрын

That's so true..

@kevinjohnson3521 3 жыл бұрын

@@kingpauljoel6827 well said.

@laurenbailey4145 3 жыл бұрын

One thing that confuses me about cessationism is that when you look at the gifts of the Spirit they are all super practical for carrying out ministry. Just look in Acts and you see the Spirit helping them know who to talk to, who not to talk to, where to go, where not to go, helping heal and set free, encourage and rebuke. All of these things are super powerful in helping advance the kingdom of God and to direct ministries in practical ways. To assume that God doesn't want to still do that today is very shallow thinking in my mind. Especially when we see the enemy doing supernatural things and pushing evil forward, why would God not want us to be supernaturally empowered to push back darkness?

@travis6694 3 жыл бұрын

Lauren, I agree with you. The main thing I see or have heard from others is the emphasis and central focus of the spiritual gifts per say. That a lot do it for themselves and not to serve the kingdom of God with gifts. And I think the “feeling” emphasis causes a lot of issues. This is where a lot of the negative view comes from I believe. Btw I go to a charismatic church because people love Jesus there and it’s a great place to fellowship.

@awesomenessindaface 3 жыл бұрын

This! Yes! 🙌

@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 3 жыл бұрын

Amen

@Ryan-qh7ed 2 жыл бұрын

@Reformed Church of Christ Roman's 12:21 | Ephesians 6:10-18 | 2 Corinthians 10:4-6

@travisrosenthal398 2 жыл бұрын

@Reformed Church of Christ with all due respect, you should reread the gospels and the rest of the New Testament. It is literally full of verses that show our authority over satan and demons through Christ.

@shabach3120 3 жыл бұрын

.."Baptists in Africa cast out demons..."well said. For many of us Africans the question is often not whether one has spiritual gifts, but rather the source of those gifts. Yeah, we know all about the excesses of some charismatics but you don't throw away baby with the bath water.

@drewwilson6639 3 жыл бұрын

Amen couldn't agree more!

@madcow9421 3 жыл бұрын

Phil Johnson “we must throw the baby out with bath water”.

@kevinjohnson3521 3 жыл бұрын

I say Charismatics are NOT Pentecostals because they allow the influence of the Vatican. Your initial statement is a GREAT POINT! McArthur is committing Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost to me. He cannot be saved by the Comforter cause John rejects the way the Holy Ghost comes.

@J_a_s_o_n Жыл бұрын

@@kevinjohnson3521 LIAR! Charismatics have nothing to do with the Vatican unless you are speaking about the Catholic Charismatics. That's how God breaks down cults. I know afew who left Catholicism after seeing charisma- power of God in play.

@kevinjohnson3521 Жыл бұрын

@@J_a_s_o_n you have no clue what you are talking about, hence why they are not called Pentecostals… lack of knowledge?!?!

@grandmoffporkins 3 жыл бұрын

What a thoughtful, even-tempered and respectful response. Dang. More of that please.

@STEVENOFNORTH 3 жыл бұрын

If cessationism were true, I wouldn't be a Christian today. I am a former atheist, but 11 years ago, a group of believers laid their hands on me and prayed in the name of Jesus. I immediately experienced deliverance, supernatural healing, and baptism in the Holy Spirit (all in a manner consistent with the New Testament writings). In the years since, I have witnessed the same happen for several others after I prayed for them in the name of Jesus. In light of this my take on the debate is that to deny contemporary 'acts' (for there is a multitude apart from my experiences) renders all accounts demonic or natural. The issue with this is doing so runs contrary to both the volume and nature of the evidence. While a person with no experience would be justified in applying a degree of skepticism to such claims, it doesn't stand to reason to blatantly deny them outright, given that so many Christians testify to their legitimacy. And thats without mentioning the fact that no scriptural exegesis can actually unequivolcally support the claim that the new testament indicates gifts have 'ceased'.

@KathleenJade 3 жыл бұрын

@Sovereign Grace Runner Yes, i am pretty sure he knows that. He is just stating his testimony.

@KathleenJade 3 жыл бұрын

AMEN! Happy Jesus set you free and that the people praying for you, were obedient to leading of the Holy Spirit.

@KathleenJade 3 жыл бұрын

@Sovereign Grace Runner Jesus gets the glory. the fact that he is saved and experienced delivered. :) the Lord glories in salvation. Yes in Christ alone. It's not good to assume, that he is denying that. Lol 🤣 He may not of worded it just like you did. But from his comment, you can discern the heart and spirit behind it. Be blessed

@KathleenJade 3 жыл бұрын

@Sovereign Grace Runner yes.... i am quite aware. have a good day :)

@andrewmontague1339 3 жыл бұрын

@Sovereign Grace Runner He said people laid hands on him in the name of Jesus and he was delivered. He acknowledged that it was in Jesus name ( authority ) that he received salvation. The way in which he was saved doesn't diminish Christ but it exalts Christ. So, yes, it's in Christ alone he was saved.

@crazyvoice12 3 жыл бұрын

That's my main thing with John MacArthur. He won't actually connect with those he disagrees with. When the apostle Paul took issue with someones theology, he confronted them whether through letter or in person. This should be the model

@gabegringo4155 Жыл бұрын

If a first Century Christian could see and hear the beliefs that are espoused in churches today, he or she would be shocked! "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power." 1 COR 2:3-5. Miracles, signs, and wonders were the norm. The idea that they ceased after the last disciple died is a theological idea added over 1500 years later. Send the fire!

@brianwhitacre4558 5 ай бұрын

Sure we're all apostle's and have the same power? No, they demonstrated that Christ was actually the Messiah, I believe and God confirmed that with miracles, signs, and wonders. Specific times, specific people, 1 Lord. Gods stamp is approval on His 1 and only son. The church birthed and empowered. Many incredible things happened. Do you see ppl walking around today healing other people with rags. Raining down fire 🔥 I haven't, not saying it isn't possible, but 1 Corinthians 13 v 8 makes a good case that tongues WILL cease and in the later books of Ephesians and Romans where spiritual gifts are extensively spoken about tongues is nowhere to be found and that's an older era in the church. Wonder why not? What happened to tomorrow in the midst prevalent spiritual gifts speaking books on the Bible. Cessation makes a good case their JS

@StEpHeNno22 3 ай бұрын

@@brianwhitacre4558Ok, there’s a lot here so let’s just start with your first remark “sure we’re all apostles and have the same power?” In Acts 6:5, where it mentions Stephen and Philip, were these men apostles, yes or no? And did they perform signs as apostles did (seems to say so in Acts 6:8, and Acts 8:6)?

@suzannemartin6817 3 ай бұрын

@@brianwhitacre4558but God gave, by the Holy Spirit, gifts to men. You are suggesting that God took some back back. Yes tongues will cease but they haven’t ceased yet. The gifts haven’t gone away. Why would God take away a gift He had given to ThecChurch.? May I recommend Daniel Kolenda’s podcast on tongues. It is here on KZfaq

@djhu306 3 жыл бұрын

Keep doing what you do bro... I don't always agree but your content is provocative and well presented.

@bobs8005 3 жыл бұрын

That’s the respect that is often lacking on KZfaq

@dylanmilks 3 жыл бұрын

It pains me greatly to hear guys like Chris Rosebrough says that charismatics worship a different God. It's just sad. Certainly, the charismatic movement is guilty of a lot of sins, excess and overindulgence, which should be rightly called out, but oftentimes the cessationists behave like Pharasees.

@sierrairick1704 3 жыл бұрын

💯

@Adanwanyi 3 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@edwinalvarez1619 3 жыл бұрын

Your right,. I enjoy Chris's sermons, he is very knowledgeable but he is very one sided on certain issues.

@bidzam 3 жыл бұрын

Well the fact that we have denominations is the biggest problem to begin with. I'm starting to question the notion that God is behind denominationalism but I think it's the error of men. Should we dismiss healing, prophecy or speaking in tongues the answer is NO, whoever should we discern the Spirit behind all this YES. Even we need to evaluate the teachings cessationalists even on their teachings as they tend to be mainly focused on that. However we have to also put importance on the fundamentals of the Gospel first as justification and sanctification is driven by the Word of God. You can get healed today but still you're going to go through a mortal death.

@eskews__me 3 жыл бұрын

Some of them do...it’s definitely still orthodox to believe in the miraculous gifts, but many charismatic leaders seem to throw the Bible away in favor of experience and when you throw the Bible out, you leave the God of the Bible as well. For instance, the God of the Bible always tells the truth and speaks inerrantly. But to some people, god speaks fallibly today and therefore that must be a different god.

@ClauGutierrezY 3 жыл бұрын

Ruslan brother, I said it before but I will say it again. Your content is evolving so much and the interviews are so on point. I'm happy for you keep it up mate. Cheers! 🇨🇱🇬🇧

@dorianromero6293 3 жыл бұрын

Dude this was so helpful man , his demeanor , and tone , the way he carried himself was just wow , something I wouldn’t expect from pastor John M . I know he has some sound teaching and loves the Lord and desire the Lost to be saved but his body language comes off really proud and better and knowing all things . But I was raise in a legalistic church and have been finding myself in the middle ground more but I’m noticing things like how there’s no biblical scripture that says that tongues have ended. And if we do pray over someone to be healed at the end of the day it’s God’s power not mine through the spirit all these things happen ! May God continue to bless your channel Ruslan it really is helping

@dorianromero6293 3 жыл бұрын

There are a lot of bad experiences out there though

@brianwhitacre4558 5 ай бұрын

1st Corinthians 13 v 8 , tongues will cease, when🤷 that's the debate

@suzannemartin6817 3 ай бұрын

@@brianwhitacre4558”in the mouths of two or three witnesses shall all things be established” it is unwise to try to build a doctrine around half of one verse.

@josemolina8230 9 күн бұрын

@@suzannemartin6817Pentecostals do the same, in the same chapter they make a whole doctrine of angelic tongues just off one verse

@lonnieridgeway3722 3 жыл бұрын

I was stopped dead in thought when he said, “if people were left in a room alone with a Bible and were fluent in speaking Greek and Hebrew, they would walk away understanding the gifts are continued and for today!” I think about the times when I’ve wavered or questioned what I believe about the gifts and it’s always when a communicator I admire tells me that the gifts of the Spirit aren’t for today. But then I read scripture and take an honest look at my own experiences and those of people who mentor me and I trust and have years of proven longevity of being a faithful follower of Christ that I shake off and keep what that communicator says that’s biblical while allowing the unbiblical teachings to fall away. Good interview!

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

EXACTLY!!!

@geraldpchuagmail 3 жыл бұрын

Same reaction man. I haven't thought of that experiment.

@brandonpemberton5707 7 ай бұрын

@@RuslanKDno. Get out of yourself and experience and into the Word. It denotes in plain language what and who the signs were for. Start seeing the completed scriptures as Divinely inspired AND preserved. IT IS more than sufficient for the faith and building up of His members. The gifts are not Peter Pan food than only appears if you believe in it enough. And they don't drop dead like fairies when someone claims not to believe. The Spirit bestowed them upon saints as he saw fit. There's no such thing as certain gifts only manifesting among groups who believe in them🙏🏽

@lukebishop104 3 жыл бұрын

The Bible teaches that signs, miracles, and wonders were to testify that Jesus was who He said He was. For the apostles it testified that their testimony was true. Authority is known by its power. How can one know if Christ has absolute authority if there is no demonstration of power? Mark 2:10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins...” Often times it is the miraculous signs that the Holy Spirit performs through weak men that will allow for the heart of a man to be willing to hear the gospel that faith might come. There are so many testimonies of people who would have never been willing to hear the gospel if it weren’t for a miracle. My question is that if these men of old, if Jesus Himself even needed miracles to testify of the message of the cross, why not us? Have we outgrown the need for the manifestation of God’s power? With this said let our focus be on the giver of the gifts and not the gifts themselves. They are mere tools used for the advancement of the Kingdom of God on earth. God bless.

@austinlehman2524 3 жыл бұрын

Well said.

@rajaduraisharoan1790 2 ай бұрын

Spot on!!! Today many ministers try to use the gifts as advertisement to themselves when god gives them gifts and fails miserablely in fruits of spirt... That is why so many frown upon gifts of spirit... Gifts are just tool that work in sidelines to prove the gospel and not the main picture itself... As to the question why we don't see mighty prophets like Elijah is because god is still looking for a person who can commit to him the way Elijah did... But sadly we all fall short on that journey... We should pray to god to raise Elijahs, billy Grahams, Reinhard bonnkes and smith wigglesworths today!!!

@preacher-man3591 3 жыл бұрын

Just commenting to support the channel man.

@jarheartfaith4341 3 жыл бұрын

God bless all who read this in the mighty powerful name of Jesus Christ amen

@eduxyr Жыл бұрын

I can 100% assure you as somebody who lives in baptist church in africa it is common seeing demons being casted out and tongues being spoken

@josephdoctor6423 3 жыл бұрын

I believe miracles exists so does John MacArthur, many hyper charismatic fake miracles and many Cessationists neglect the holy spirit, I think there needs to be a balance and that is where I fully agree with Mike Winger and Allan Parr teachings

@doug_peterson 3 жыл бұрын

agreed

@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 3 жыл бұрын

Amen.

@suzannemartin6817 3 ай бұрын

Hmmm balance can be a scary word when it comes to the supernatural. It seems we will ether make room for it o we won’t or we will be “okay” with it as long as we can control it.

@josephdoctor6423 3 ай бұрын

@@suzannemartin6817 we make room for it

@PrinceDarius777 3 жыл бұрын

You link up with literally all the people I watch. Love the unity Ruslan!

@Eka5304 3 жыл бұрын

Dr Brown spoke with so much grace. Whether we agree on not with him which I do but he was so gracious n non confrontational 🙏🏿

@sandyzalecki1145 3 жыл бұрын

I used to work with the man who was the number one distributor of John MacArthur bibles in the world. I loved him. He did a great prison ministries, but he didn't believe that anything was a miracle. I thought that was strange until I learned about the beliefs of John MacArthur. John MacArthur is a good theologian but he is wrong on a few things.

@psyclonus 3 жыл бұрын

REAL WRONG

@decunningham410 3 жыл бұрын

I've never heard him say he doesn't believe in miracles

@raphaelfeneje486 Жыл бұрын

@@decunningham410 He said he doesn't

@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630 Жыл бұрын

@@raphaelfeneje486 No he didn't.

@raphaelfeneje486 Жыл бұрын

@@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630 what are you saying??😕

@Thicknchunky 3 жыл бұрын

Sola scriptura gives you the following beliefs: - Cessationism vs. continuationism - Baptismal regeneration vs. reformed baptismal theology - Infant baptism vs. credo baptism vs. baptism isn’t necessary - Real presence in the Eucharist to a symbolic (it’s just grape juice and crackers) view of the Eucharist - Free will vs. predestination - Assurance of salvation to being able to throw away or refuse the salvation being offered to you. - Bishops/priests vs. Pastors/elders - Veneration of the Theotokos vs. non-veneration - New perspective vs. old perspective on Paul. I could keep going. What’s even more confusing is when someone says that they have their preferred pastors or preachers because of the truth that they preach. It comes off like the story of Goldilocks, trying different things out until it’s just right. Some pick John MacArthur because of whatever reason, others pick Joel Osteen because of whatever reason. Aren’t they all reading the same Bible? I hear all the time to let the Bible interpret itself yet here we are: Doctrinal plurality everywhere. I don’t think that what Jesus meant when he prayed that we would be one Church.

@partlysimpson5154 4 ай бұрын

thats not even what truth is, it is a religion

@Watchmanonthewall77 3 ай бұрын

No, we are not all reading the same bible. That's one of the biggest problems.

@TheRealTrumanShow 9 ай бұрын

Technically not a debate if the other person isn’t present.

@beniblakelock6933 Жыл бұрын

McArthur will not debate. If he does he will lose all his follower. That’s why you teach people to follow Christ not you (because you have the only truth) humility is the key ❤

@johornbuckle5272 3 ай бұрын

Even though i am not reformed nor will i be, Macarthur is solid

@Fablelord1 3 жыл бұрын

I've started this conversation with a couple of my high school students about spiritual gifts. If the God we believe in is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, why would spiritual gifts stop being a thing? The only clear answer to that it would be for God's glory, but equally so for spiritual gifts to continue to be used today. I think of 1 Corinthians 12-14, that spiritual gifts manifest when we are glorifying God from a place of love and loving those around us. If there is no love, then why would a spiritual gift or miracle manifest?

@codyross9660 3 жыл бұрын

So God has always given people spiritual gifts throughout all of human history?

@Fablelord1 3 жыл бұрын

@@codyross9660 I probably sit on a different side of this then most people, but yes. It may not be in the same way, or maybe even the same gifts, but yeah. The obvious answer is the prophets. They would not be who they were if God didn't specifically call them and gifted them to preach and prophesy. I think it's super cool how that happens. More specifically, there's a scene in Exodus when God says he has specifically gifted craftsmen to build the tent of meeting. Joseph was gifted with visions and the ability to interpret them in Genesis. There are probably more old testament figures that have received spiritual gifts, but these are the ones that come to immediate mind.

@HvV_FilmRoom 2 жыл бұрын

Cessationism does not claim that spiritual gifts have ceased. It claims that the **sign gifts** have ceased.

@rajaduraisharoan1790 2 ай бұрын

In countries like mine (india), you can't evangelise without the power of holy spirit... If cessation theory is true, india would have 0 Christians today!!!

@ofeliaclaudio6379 Жыл бұрын

Praise God for Dr. Brown!!!! I've been praying for JMAC to be baptized in the Holy Spirit!!!! John Osteen, the father of Joel Osteen, a dyed-in-the-wool BAPTIST, got baptized in the Spirit, spoke in tongues (he was so hungry for God, he said) and got kicked out of his denomination! Let's all pray for ALL pastors to experience the BAPTISM IN THE SPIRIT!!! John the Baptist said , "But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Jesus is the ONE Who will baptize them with FIRE!!!!

@rosethao6004 Жыл бұрын

McArthur makes people uncomfortable because they know they are sinners. It’s not his job to make you feel good it’s to tell you the truth. And the truth is we are all born wicked and need Jesus

@nanabonandtatasfamilyadven486 3 жыл бұрын

I attend a apostolic/Pentecostal Church. We believe in the gifts of the Spirit. We believe in Mark 16:17. We who are charismatic can fall short at times. We need to make sure that before we speak a word, that is not coming from our flesh but of the spirit. Some are guilty of making false prophecies. I always say we shall know them by the fruit that they produce. There are many other brothers in Christ from different backgrounds and religions that God uses mightly. I think everyone needs to be careful on judging different types of backgrounds. God can use anyone.We cannot put God in a box! ❤️

@RabbiMurray 6 ай бұрын

Spoken like a true charismatic. Box box box so silly

@terrybarge9090 Жыл бұрын

To understand the gulf between Charismatic Christians & modern day Cessationists, it’s a good idea to look at the gulf between Jesus’ teachings and his ministry with the beliefs and behaviours of the Pharisees & Sadducees- it’s an almost identical dynamic. Who would you have embraced and followed?

@johnm2567 3 ай бұрын

“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.” ‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭

@MapleBoarder78 3 жыл бұрын

00:44 “Why is this such a polarizing topic?” Let me clarify my position by stating that I do believe in the gifts, tongues, miracles and prophecy today. Now having said that… I’d venture to say the large amount of abuse and the large potential for abuse in the Charismatic sector can lead people to err on the side of caution or avoid it completely. Unfortunately speaking in tongues or claiming the gift of prophecy (when vague enough) can be easily faked. A charismatic church in our area would often have times where members would fall to the ground, roll around and start rambling unintelligibly. There was a girl there who would pretend and fall to the ground copying them as well. Why would someone fake it? Lots of reasons. Fear of being an outcast, fear of being labeled a false Christian, fear of letting friends or family down, wanting attention, wanting to feel important…ect. How many others were just “playing along?” 5%? 50%? 80%? Who knows. How many had convinced themselves it was really happening when in fact it was just psychosomatic? Just to clarify, I’m not saying that’s always the case, but we should be charitable in understanding the reality of what can go on at many Charismatic churches and the reason people may shy away from that environment. At another church it was common practice during prayer for the adult members to wail loudly, cry, and flail around. Many of the children would look around confused wondering what was happening. Other children who were more used to the environment would follow suit. They would look around, see what the grown ups were doing and think, “Hey, this is how the grown ups act when they pray, I’ll do that to.” And so it becomes expected of you to wail and flail during prayer time because “that’s what everyone else does” and I don’t want to be the odd one out. I guess the purpose of my post is that we should be charitable to both sides and be willing to admit there are credible reasons why many people feel the need to avoid Charismatic environments. I believe there are legitimate concerns that should be addressed more often, rather than casually brushing them aside as perhaps “cessationist propaganda”.

@davebonar1 2 жыл бұрын

Benny Hinn worth 75 million , Kenneth Copeland worth over 200 million , I could go on and on about these leaders in these movements. I rest my case.

@rajaduraisharoan1790 2 ай бұрын

Its problem with people... When we ask questions, are we also looking at Reinhard bonnke, sadhu sunder singh, smith wigglesworth, dgs dhinakaran etc... These people also exist... When a ministry grow, it also grows economically and those ministers have to handle the aspects of money and finances also .. it comes down to are they being truthful before god and it is for god to judge them if they failed because they are his servents... Lastly Bible unequivocally states " Never trust a breathing person"... It applies to all... All ministers are to show the life of Jesus in everything instead of themselves

@BlancheNtrOy Күн бұрын

Look up Derek Prince and you’ll find him refreshing. So far from Hinn and Copeland. A true man of God who biblically taught gifts of the spirit

@TrainwithPJ 3 жыл бұрын

Love that you always have different voices on your channel. Much respect brother

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

gotta have you on some day!

@TrainwithPJ 3 жыл бұрын

@@RuslanKD soon brother, ill be back down SD soon.

@amcovered 3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate the love, patience and fluency that Dr. Brown speaks with, you don't get the sense that he's being harsh or disrespectful and I can truly respect that. 💯

@garycasebier7909 3 жыл бұрын

R T Kendall has a great book on this subject as well. He actually released it about the same time Strange Fire was released. Kendall does a great job in fusing Refomed theology with a continuist perspective. The book is called Holy Fire and highly recommend it. I would highly recommend handing it out to continuist skeptics as well.

@quantaviousjenkins7667 2 жыл бұрын

Something that alot of people will not recognize, but is true, our past experiences does indeed shape how we read and interpret the Bible. Majority of cessationists grew up/got saved in a more reformed type of church. Personally, I have yet to read a very Biblically compelling argument for cessationism. Whethe they would outright say it or not, their argument basically comes down to, "these type of churches look so very different, weird and confusing to us, so that must mean they are all faking everything." I will be transparent, and say that when I got saved, it was definitely in a supernatural way. I did speak in tongues in that moment.

@KathleenJade 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dr. Brown. You are a blessing to the body of Christ. Especially you're outreach to the Jewish community. Not alot of people, are able to do that. I am currently reading, "Authentic Fire" and it is awesome. Thank you.

@user-on7on5jm5s 8 ай бұрын

" I have not sent them, appointed them, or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolataries, and the delusions of their own minds." Jeremiah 14:14

@mariembuenaventura1278 3 жыл бұрын

Both extremes should be more open for discussions.

@jekkajo 3 жыл бұрын

I would so pay to watch a debate between these two.

@jessiet7599 Жыл бұрын

What a great interview!! Thank you this answers so many of my questions about the divide among Christians on this topic. Thank you Dr. Brown 🙏

@Levi-rl3fu 3 жыл бұрын

The emphasis on sola scriptura is interesting to me coming from those who don’t think that unregenerate people are capable of believing upon hearing the gospel (without a separate regenerative act of God on their hearts). That Calvinistic thought process seems to demean the power of Scripture rather than elevating it. I love Dr. Brown and agree this debate could be very helpful for many.

@heat305rc 3 жыл бұрын

on the contrary my brother it reaffirms it

@Levi-rl3fu 3 жыл бұрын

@@heat305rc Can an unregenerate person understand Scripture? Or do they need to be regenerated first?

@robertnieten7259 Жыл бұрын

There are extremes in worshipping all the time but non pentecostals want to focus on those minimal extremes by some believers in the pentecostal churches as the norm which is not true. In Acts ch.2 upon recieving the Holy Spirit some of the believers were thought of, by some in the crowd, as being drunk. That is because that recieving the Spirits' presence in you causes joy. The night that I recieved the Holy Spirit in an apostolic church I entered the church and immediately felt this wonderful presence that I already knew was the presence of the Holy Spirit. The people were nice and kindly greeted me as I entered and then I took a seat. As the preaching began I saw some of these same people jumping, clapping, shouting and running the aisles. I remember thinking that I had just spoken to some of them when I entered the church and they struck me as solid, sane individuals. Then I came to the conclusion that they must be experiencing something so wonderful that they were " beside themselves" in expressing it. Suddenly, I wanted more that anything to experience that too.

@HC-dn1do 2 ай бұрын

Pagan religions do these things as well - they appear drunk, shaking, falling out, laughing hysterically, etc. The Bible tells us how we can tell if someone has the Holy Spirit. We look to see if they have the fruit of the Holy Spirit. One of those fruits is self control.

@robertnieten7259 2 ай бұрын

@HC-dn1do That's true, self control is important , but one must keep in mind that self control is the result of maturity. A believer who has just been born again isn't yet spiritually mature ,which is learned gradually with guidance from mature Christians. When I was first born again, I used to praise the Lord so loud that I would drown everyone else out in the prayer room.

@shepherdhavenhomestead 3 жыл бұрын

I don't think any cessationist, J-Mac included, would deny or disregard an account of biblical tongues; aka an english speaking person speaking mandarin to a mandarin speaking person without training, knowledge, or say google translate. Shouldboughtahyundai or Usedtohaveamitsubishi is NOT biblical tongues. Not in Acts, not in 1 Corinthians. And, for the record, I'm not a cessationist hatin on Dr. Brown and the continuing crowd. The problem with this conversation is Rus and Dr. B were discussin straw men on both sides... I do agree, a conversation with someone like Dr. B and J-Mac would be awesome.

@doug_peterson 3 жыл бұрын

agreed

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

well that J-Mac or whoever should be ok with the smoke. it appears they aren't willing to debate. I stand with Dr. Brown on this. it's fairly clear in scripture.

@shepherdhavenhomestead 3 жыл бұрын

@@RuslanKD Would "unity" allow us to stand with both men? That's where I stand. While they may disagree on some issues (and I probably disagree with both of them at times), perhaps even key issues; like you've said before, in the essentials unity, etc... Maybe a good conversation would be what does "unity" actually mean? Was Jesus "united" with Peter when He told him, "get behind me satan"? Was Paul united with Peter when he called him out by name? Unity is in the Spirit... There is one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith. We may look and sound different, but, it's the same Spirit that indwells us all. J-Mac and Dr. B. Disagreement doesn't mean disunity. While the world may claim that, it's simply false. They need the Truth and we can proclaim it to them.

@madcow9421 3 жыл бұрын

Ok show me say let’s say a dozen times where they have said this is the legitimate version, if you say “of course I do not forbid speaking in tongues” but then forbid every instance of it then all that makes you is a hypocrite, not genuine sincere belief that the gift is legitimate TODAY. So have Phil Johnson confirm several instances where they’ve permitted, endorsed wholehearted agreed with the practice. It will be easy for you as he is obviously no hyprocrite. All I’ve seen is them say “we do not forbid,...” meaning “we strictly forbid ...” just an observation and a genuinely hope you can prove me wrong tbh

@shepherdhavenhomestead 3 жыл бұрын

@@madcow9421 assuming this is directed to me, could you please clarify? I don’t understand the question.

@stephanieblenkhorn5218 3 жыл бұрын

I really get what John says about about worship. I can be distracted by melody. I think it’s our own thought processes while we worship. Also his conviction is ‘Christ Alone’ Good chat 🤍🤍

@solomonnallapu 4 ай бұрын

I’m currently reading the book “Strange Fire” by John MacArthur! It’s been great so far. I like how he addresses, respects, obeys, and worships the third person of the Trinity, which is amazing! ❤ Highly recommended!

@tedrowell659 4 ай бұрын

The video series I on KZfaq. Highly recommend it

@misterrees Жыл бұрын

We need crazy generation... crazy-matics, that pray crazy, worship God crazy, and that go after the devil and witches crazily!!!

@skillfulswordsman9035 2 жыл бұрын

I still don't know why someone would read the Bible and become a cessationists. I feel it is a good way of shuning away from the fear of knowing God's power. Read 1 Corinthians 14 and even Paul teaches us to exercise spiritual gifts when we come for service. How come many ignore that but want to oush the idea that women should remain silent in churches?

@toneysmith4946 3 жыл бұрын

This was dope we need this debate because what do scripture teach we been hearing so much who's false who's real if a john macarthur say something false we wouldn't even know because we trust him so much and his teaching

@davidortega357 Жыл бұрын

These Cesssionalist preachers act like Saul of Tarsus when he went around arresting the early saints preaching Jesus name to all in Jerusalem they of the Jewish clergy demanded to stop preaching in Jesus name we need to pray for the modern Saul's to become Paul of the Apostolic faith and preach tongues and the other gifts of the holy ghost there 9 gifts

@rajaduraisharoan1790 2 ай бұрын

@RellGiles 3 жыл бұрын

Johnny Mac been duckin that smoke 😆 I’d pay to watch that debate.

@travis6694 3 жыл бұрын

He don’t want no smoke 😤

@drewwilson6639 3 жыл бұрын

A fan of both but I'm pretty confident Macarther would get destroyed in a debate with Dr.Brown

@mastermisandelathrope8667 Жыл бұрын

@@drewwilson6639 At least regarding tongues MacArthur could win on this minor sense: the tongues spoken by contemporary Evangelicals are just glossolalia. They've no linguistic structure, they're just gibberish. If angels speak a phonetic language, there'd be a phrasal structure (nouns, verbs, prepositions etc.). That glossolalia can even appear in other religious manifestations when members of such religions are "high on their emotions". On the Cessasionist side regarding miracles, Macarthur for sure would lose on Biblical grounds, but could make a good case in the real world: you don't have any documentation that's not open to question. If you had, for example, a clear documented case of a man that was born without an arm and, after some prayer, his arm had grown, it would be an unquestionable miracle. You have 0 of those. All is open to question (wrong diagnoses, weak witnesses etc.). Pastor Macarthur would lose in general because of what is written in the Bible, however, he could at least make a good case against many of the Charismatic exaggerations and farce. If he studied well Dr. Brown's arguments, he wouldn't get destroyed, that's for sure.

@maggieschmitt7627 3 жыл бұрын

This is so good !! 🔥🔥

@briancornish5857 9 ай бұрын

In order to solve this problem Worldwide GOD HIMSELF SAID that in the Last days HE would pour Out His Spirit upon the WHOLE World..Problem Solved..🕊🔥 🌎 🔥 🕊

@gonzo_-ww4iq Жыл бұрын

Now I'm don't identify as charismatic or pentecostal I'm just a follower of Christ and I just want to know how come people in those moments ignore 1 Corinthians 14 26-27 when speaking in tongues?

@nyshoefly Жыл бұрын

Macarthur is all for constant prayer Dr. Brown.

@wisesolutionministries Жыл бұрын

I was saved 42 years ago by hearing the the gift of tongues with the interpretation of the tongues directed to me. God does have a sense of humor. It was in a Baptist church in Jerusalem. Also I worked with some church planters who love "Charismatic Chaos" which I agreed to give them my rebuttal of all of John McArthur points. Spending a year with them in Lebanon, every single time God performed a miracle these people were not around. Either traveling back to.America for support or doing other things. God doesnt want us to be ignorant of the gifts 1 Cor 12 but if we want to be ignorant then be ignorant 1 Cor 14

@TRACKMAJORS 3 жыл бұрын

Rus you did it again with another fire guest💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾....lets get Voddie on here and you my friend will be the GOAT!!..LOL

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

No doubt. I'm open to having Voddie, I don't chase interviews. I would Chase a debate between a Voddie and a Sho Baraka tho lol.

@Oaksoh 3 жыл бұрын

I know T.D. Jakes is questionable but I remember in one of his interviews (might've been clipped on your channel) he brought up that black churches didn't have that privilege of dividing over so many issues - I feel like that's a thing with cessation and continuation in the western church. In other countries we see churches as a family, all worshipping however they please, where here in the west there's a division between tongues, how others worship, expository preaching vs preaching on a set of scriptures. It's crazy how we see all this when you read the epistles and it talks so much about brotherly love and being one body.

@joshualloyd2915 6 күн бұрын

I think John MacArthur’s views on salvation are significantly more concerning.

@StEpHeNno22 3 ай бұрын

Very telling how twice Michael reached out to try to debate John MacArthur, and with no luck. You would think with him being so strong against the charismatic movement he would’ve gladly exposed whatever he thought was false about Michael’s doctrines about gifts, including answering any rebuttals Michael had to his book, Strange Fire.

@antoniomartin7815 3 жыл бұрын

As a reformed Baptist believer I believe those powers still exist, however reformed history is grounded in plasmaphobia or the fear of the spirit world. The doctrine of cessation is grounded on that. Study the history of reformation and witch hunts and you will be astonished.

@phil3924 3 жыл бұрын

I really like John McArthur but think he is wrong on this one. His preaching is very academic and sort of sterile. Scripture mentions miracles and never said they would cease. There were places Jesus couldn’t do miracles because of a lack of faith. I’m pretty sure that’s why you hear about them happening more in developing countries. Some of the strongest believers I have ever met have been charismatic types.

@cadillacjack3240 3 жыл бұрын

Its pretty audacious of Macarthur to sell a study bible with majority of the bible being his notes. Which leads me to believe Macarthur doesn't want the scriptures to lead you to truth but for the bible to be filtered through MacArthur's theology. I grew up around Macarthur idol worshipers. He even spoke at the church I grew up in. If you dressed conservative, was clean cut, could put on your church smile and have a good Sunday handshake you were one of them. Safety bubble christians.

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

His commentary (when I read decades ago) on 1 Cor 12, 13 and14 are WILD. That’s when I was like... nah I’m good.

@cadillacjack3240 3 жыл бұрын

@Sovereign Grace Runner when there's more MacArthur's words in his study bible than there are the words of the bible, are you are letting the Word of God which is sharper than any two edge sword be your guide to truth or is Macarthur standing between you and the scriptures and saying "no, this is what it really means." Macarthur types would rather have heady and deep conversations about theology before they share testimonies about their help for the poor and needy. Missionaries all over the world funded by Macarthur followers but wouldn't cross the tracks in their own town for fear of what the news says about the poor and needy rather than what the bible says.

@dareemmanuel6079 3 жыл бұрын

@@RuslanKD if you really want the debate to happen, you might want to come off as ‘neutral’. Unfortunately, most people don’t want to debate when they sense the moderator leans to one side. This is of course all irrelevant if you won’t be moderating. God bless you and thanks for this.

@lindaw2418 7 ай бұрын

I don’t see MacArthur as harsh, direct in his beliefs maybe. I pray according to Gods will and God answers. Is this the gift of faith☺️❤️

@incredable6211 2 жыл бұрын

I was raised reformed, I found a serious relationship w Jesus in the charis movement, yup there were eccesses, I'm quite a bit more moderate now. So much of the argument for cessationism is that it doesn't seem "normal" John M's talks are peppered w this theme of what is "normal" or what is historically accepted. I Cor 14:39 don't forbid speaking w tongues, that's pretty clear, if that's not part of your Christianity, ok, I don't think your going to hell, but demonizing those who follow what that Corinthian letter encorages is wrong. My "hearing" God "speak" to me doesn't add to or diminish the cannon as long as it stays w/i what the bible teaches. My favorite old hymn is "I come to the garden along" it's an old hymn I learned from my "reformed" parents, theres the part that goes "and He walks with me and He talks with me and He tells me I am His own'" This speaks to a relationship of love that all of us desire. So stop chucking rocks at each other, let's love one another.

@africanindiaspo2895 3 жыл бұрын

In our church we are walking in the power of the Holy Spirit and seeing people being healed and delivered of demonic oppression. The gifts of the Spirit are what distinguish us between the dead gods of Buddha, Islam and everything else. They are also the bread of the children. 1 corinthians 12 vs 4-11 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

@farmerscott2195 3 жыл бұрын

My first thought: “ You got Dr Brown on! Respect!”

@fcchannel6162 3 жыл бұрын

love gets pulled when you just wanna be right.

@johnwasham9775 3 жыл бұрын

Ruslan I watched the last bit on your livestream with Dr Michael Brown ..great interview...🙏 He's very knowledgeable

@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630 Жыл бұрын

I have a John Macarthur study Bible right by my bed and he's a good teacher in many ways. But McArthur is dead wrong on this subject. God certainly still does miracles, he still talks to people both audibly and inaudibly, and through dreams. He has to me, to my pastor, to people at my church. And to countless others. But people like McArthur have obviously never had things like this happen to him, so he doesn't believe they happen to other people. He's wrong, they do.

@smrkrr 3 жыл бұрын

I've listened to Dr. Brown several times over the years and not once have I ever listened to him where he does not mention his schooling & degrees, as to convince that he is the expert. The first time I heard him on AFR I liked some of his responses so I followed him for awhile until something just started to feel off about him. Just a personal experience. I'm not saying I disagree with everything he is saying but definitely pray for discernment when listening or talking with anyone. John MacArthur, however, is one of the very few standing up in the most biblically sound position. I do not 100% agree with his thoughts (as you won't find anyone that you do) about everything but he often says that he could be wrong when it comes to things that aren't as clear in the Bible, like the tribulation & etc. We need more hard hitters like him. JESUS is love but He is also truth, which isn't always nice. GOD Bless you on your journey.

@RuslanKD 3 жыл бұрын

yeah I think we shouldn't judge someones ministry based on if " feel off about him" because something has felt about off about Dr. MacArthur to me for decades. that doesn't mean God isn't using him. his view on continuitionism and his commentary on 1 Cor 12, 14 in his study bible is pretty trash to me. I rather major in the major's tho. until he starts attacking and talking carelessly about charismatics.

@IreneB2980 3 жыл бұрын

Love your music, your heart, your channel, your content...Fantastic

@MrPistol55 Жыл бұрын

Dr. Brown did debate Phil Johnson, MacArthur’s Timothy and shut Johnson down. It was embarrassing…:(

@kevingp12 3 жыл бұрын

First, can't wait to see this

@stevenhuckaby2902 18 күн бұрын

Its my opinion that Pastor MacArthur is probably the most sound teacher preacher pastor Mr. Brown could ever hope to meet , I also believe Dr. MacArthur would make Mr. Brown look pretty weak from a theological position, Notice Dr. MacArthur is not pursuing anyone to try and discredit them, he is only interested In salvation of the lost, I wish Mr. Brown were likeminded

@carllakay4994 4 ай бұрын

Almost like being saved is not a miracle/a work of God, God is working today and will always.

@sekayiamatthews 3 жыл бұрын

This is excellent!

@BornToPun7541 Жыл бұрын

I don't agree with Dr. Brown on everything, but I can say that he's a lot better than people such as: Brian Houston, Vlad Savchuk, Carl Lentz, Lance Walnau, Bill Johnson, William Branham, Charles Parham, C Peter Wagner, Hank Kunneman, Todd White, Todd Bentley, Rob Bell, Isaiah Saldavar, Robert Morris, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Sid Roth, Jesse Duplantis, Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Steven Furtick, Dutch Sheets, T. D. Jakes, Benny Hinn, etc.

@rajaduraisharoan1790 2 ай бұрын

@kevinwiens4804 Жыл бұрын

1 Corinthians 14:17-19 King James Version (Paul) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue ? And "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:39. Sola Scriptura.. John MacArthur will never debate on this subject of speaking in tongues because he simply can't defend his position...scripturally..

@emeliakumi2399 Жыл бұрын

I think the only thing we should be doing as Christians is striving to walk in the will and the counsel of our Lord, and in so doing we would be equipped with whatever Grace and gifts we need on our path: which comes about when we spend time with God, in prayer and word study as David did in the days he was keeping the flock. Wasting time debating only makes enemy gain more grounds..it might get too late.

@alechriso398 Жыл бұрын

People who oppose spiritual gifts unfortunately do so based on what's a witness watching TV evangelism and what it shows the behavior of a Spirit-filled church to be. I'm not aware of any reference in scripture to an entire room of people sprinting in circles and rolling around on the ground. And I'm also not aware of promises of wealth and health that are prevalent and many of today's charismatic churches. While I have never experienced any of the "charismatic" gifts of the Spirit, I do believe they happen when they're supposed to happen not only when the camera is rolling

@donnieshepperson126 3 ай бұрын

He is our compass to the lord!

@TheRealTrumanShow 9 ай бұрын

I’m very reformed but I would never say 100% that the miraculous gifts have ceased, that being said, I’m 50, was a Charismatic for 24 years(mostly adult years) and I’ve never seen a miraculous miracle that’s undeniable and can’t be explained away AND I’ve never seen undeniable proof from other people. I hear lots of people with stories, but no concrete undeniable miracle. I’d love to see one, but never have. Now, me NOT seeing something doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but for me personally when someone says MIRACLE, I normally look for an undeniable act of God. Miracles by definition should be very rare and unexplainable, super natural, like throwing a ball one direction and it supernaturally goes the opposite. The act would also have enough eye witnesses to verify it. Again, UNDENIABLE! I think if most people are truly honest they would say the same, but most people WANT to believe a certain way so they filter their beliefs through their own bias, most people are not looking for the truth, they just want to be told they are right or what they believe is true.

@riderstreamer6259 7 ай бұрын

Excellent analysis. I believe in miracles from the HS. Submission to the WOG is key and let the HS moove freely. Have Faith in JC. From a French pentecostal guy. Thank you Lord Jesus for having rescuded me, a sinner.

@ethanplacella 2 жыл бұрын

This was always my major complaint about MacArthur. The verse he uses against the gifts of the spirit doesn’t support his argument. Ironically after that verse, the rest of the New Testament you have the apostle Paul admonishing and encouraging people to actively seek out the gifts of the spirit. But Johnny Mac says otherwise…? 🤔 Another thing touched upon in this video just confirmed another thing I’ve always felt about MacArthur but couldn’t put my finger on it. He’s all head knowledge about the Bible and grace but doesn’t know it practically IMO. He finds it weird and uncomfortable to have personal prayer and intimacy with the Father? All head knowledge with no heart experience it seems..

@LawofChristMinistries Жыл бұрын

We need that debate Battle of two titans

@_Kroaken_ Жыл бұрын

John is such a good preacher.

@educational4434 Ай бұрын

One thing that bugs me the most is anytime the topic of miraculous gifts is brought up, there always seems to be this fixation on "speaking in tongues". This seems to be a perfectly useless miracle these days given the fact that anytime someone claims that a bunch of people have broken out into speaking in tongues, what that usually means is that they have launched into speaking absolute gibberish that is not reflective of any language on the face of the planet. The entire point of "speaking in tongues" is that you are literally speaking another existing language that someone else can hear and understand. Miracles and gifts should have a practical purpose. Speaking in tongues is so that other people who speak that language can suddenly understand you. And even with as miraculous a gift as that could be, if it's only briefly available to you for a few minutes, or is just pure gibberish and not an actual existing language at all, then it doesn't seem to be a very useful or practical gift for the modern era, and I thus don't understand why there's such a fixation on it. I wish people would refer to the examples that are far more practical and interesting, like Jesus telling you that if you turn to a tree and tell it to uproot itself and plant itself in the sea, and if you believe without doubting, then it will obey you. Or when he said the same about a mountain, and telling the mountain to move from here to there, and if you believe without doubting, it will be done for you. Or when he withered the fig tree in half a second and his disciples asked him how he did it and he said that they were capable of doing this if they believed without doubting and that they would do even greater works than that. That's a pretty significant set of telekinetic abilities accessible by faith. I would definitely prefer that rather than speaking gibberish for a minute or two and flailing around like I see some of the charismatic churches do. The only way I could see speaking in tongues being a practical gift is if you traveled to a foreign nation, and no matter where you went you always were able to speak every language of the people you were encountering, as if you were Jason Bourne or something, knowing multiple languages. How great would that be? And yet I don't see a single example of that, ever. Either historically, or presently.

@Watchmanonthewall77 3 ай бұрын

You will never see JM debate because they have no scripture to back them up. However, the bible backs up the continued use of Spiritual Gifts. They know this!

@DrChristpherGarrow 3 жыл бұрын

Well done

@anthonybarber3872 3 жыл бұрын

Lovely!

@deborahbush6320 9 ай бұрын

I had to shake my head when DR Brown said it’s the cessationism church that’s getting smaller because and so he Credits his way right surly he’s forgotten wide is the road to destruction but narrow is the way to life and few find it

@disciple0flove671 3 жыл бұрын

And the Bible says we should not debate the word of God! 2 Timothy 2:14

@mattk6719 3 ай бұрын

If you want to see miracles, get out of your comfort zone and go to the front lines of the mission field.

@withoutexcuse 8 ай бұрын

It would be helpful to hear the scripture that supports his view rather than just his view.

@1InsideMan 3 жыл бұрын

Ask MB to give you an exegsis on Mathew 7:21-23 Lord Lord.

@piccfusionteam1035 9 ай бұрын

This is my problem with all people that support continued healing, speaking in tongues prophecy. That says I know what a person is going to do. It’s because I have not heard one scripture quoted to back what Michael Brown says. On the other hand, John MacArthur always has scripture to back up what he says. After being around charismatics a number of years, I never was given a reason that sounded feasible for my many questions. Again, John, MacArthur actually answers the question and proves his beliefs. Plus, Jesus said the road to heaven is narrow and few find it. I definitely wouldn’t be looking for Jesus and the places that there seems to be a massive growth.

@actackett24 Жыл бұрын

$125 for a sweatshirt!? 🤔

@israelashworth 3 жыл бұрын

I have a John MacArthur Bible and his commentary says it all. Now I have disagreed with John MacArthur but where I just let him go was when he told his congregation that taking the mark of the beast will be ok for Christians to do to get by. That is not what the Bible tells me.

@israelashworth 3 жыл бұрын

@@wef0711 All you have to do is type it in the search..you will find him saying it and find rebuttal from others as well. Look not saying he's a bad man and going to hell. But that is what he told in a Q & A session. Hope this helps.

@israelashworth 3 жыл бұрын

@@wef0711 yea I gave him the benefit of doubt also. Wasn't video editing. Thats the reason I said see for yourself. I know what slander is and that Wasn't it. How do you think I heard it. I listened and watched him often. Thats the trouble with this world if we say something it will always be heard. If I knew how to link it I would.