The Definitive Rebellion Without Rehearsal Runner Tier List - with YsengrinSC

The Definitive Rebellion Without Rehearsal Runner Tier List - with YsengrinSC - Android: Netrunner

Рет қаралды 5,674

Күн бұрын

While the second half of the exciting Liberation Cycle comes to a close, Jeff (YsengrinSC) joins The Métropole Grid to definitively and accurately assess the thirty brand new Runner cards in Rebellion Without Rehearsal. How much recursion is too much recursion? How worried should you be about assassination attempts? ARE THESE THE BEST SHAPER CARDS EVER?!? We have all these answers† and much more.
Check out the Corp side of the Rebellion Without Rehearsal Tier List on Ysengrin's channel - • Most Difficult Tier Li...
[†100% accuracy claim is subject to personal interpretation. Please contact your local meta.]
//LINKS//
YsengrinSC's KZfaq Channel - / ysengrinsc
YsengrinSC's Twitch Channel - / ysengrinsc
Create your own RWR Runner Tier List - tiermaker.com/create/runner-c...
Create your own RWR Corp Tier List - tiermaker.com/create/corp-car...
//TIME STAMPS//
0:00 Introduction
4:11 Anarch Cards
1:09:35 Criminal Cards
2:08:07 Shaper Cards
3:00:33 Neutral Card
3:14:40 Final Thoughts
3:18:40 Shout-out to Patrons!
Jack in to the Métropole Grid live stream, Tuesday afternoons at 12:15PM EST and Thursday nights starting at 8:45PM EST here on KZfaq, or @ / metropolegrid
#netrunner

Пікірлер: 42

@fungiplays2289 3 ай бұрын

Juli to power Smartware Distributor is the key to ultimate power. Don't @ me

@cryoclasm82 3 ай бұрын

I enjoy so much clear speech and very meaningful and cheerful talk. This means a lot to me as English is not my native language. Thank you for the awesome work and keep running!

@cmurtwo 3 ай бұрын

Since Andrej mentioned it, I listened to this like a podcast and mostly didn't feel like I missed much (and it integrated better with my activities time-wise) BUT: The one thing that needs visuals is the final card classification in the tier list since Andrej+Jeff mostly say "I think this is a Faction Staple, I would put it around here..." and then some drag&drop happens ^^ Sometimes mentions of "ah lets put it above XYZ" help but having that more consistently would be cool - don't have to read the whole table after every card but a little bit of context in the row would be appreciated. Also, you folks rock thanks so much 🤩

@MetropoleGrid 3 ай бұрын

That's fantastic feedback. We'll keep that in mind in the future. Thanks for the kind words, eh!

@celestialspark5697 3 ай бұрын

Ice Carver does work with Malandragem and other on encounter effects. There is a verified ruling for this on NRDB (which specificially uses Chisel as the example).

@MetropoleGrid 3 ай бұрын

It 100% does! That's on me. I believe I was confused and overlapped it with the Leech + Chisel interaction, which doesn't work. That specific interaction is not so much about the difference in 'when you encounter' and 'when you are encountering', but more so that there is no window to use the paid ability on Leech when Chisel is performing its strength check.

@thomasberton5657 3 ай бұрын

Saying that Juli is the archetypical slots are hard card is 100% correct. Feels almost identical to Career Fair to me, where the payoff is very clear and obvious, but it's very slot hungry and forces deckbuilding decisions. But it can also smooth out parts of the lower end of your econ package, and honestly I'm really happy that Crim got another card like that because they don't have many

@anrmurse 3 ай бұрын

Off the corp card discussion of Holo Man, I'm almost wondering if "Ban Me Please" should become "Will Cause Bans"

@MetropoleGrid 3 ай бұрын

BANS WILL HAPPEN

@jasonford5952 3 ай бұрын

3:11:38 - accidental shoutout to Starlit Citadel, the game store where I played my first netrunner GNK.

@MetropoleGrid 3 ай бұрын

Starlit Citadel Crusade Funding Sanctuary, Knight

@Maw0822 3 ай бұрын

A lot of the arguments around Crew feel like the arguments around Endurance. The conclusion being play skunkvoid feels like deja vu

@D4v1d-Gr43b3r 3 ай бұрын

yeah, maybe if AC had some more restrictions: being unique; having upper-bounds on the trashing ability (like "Threat 4 -> ..." or "... ice with (current) strength 0 or less and printed strength 4 or less"), or the shrinking ability (like "Take 1 tag: ... Use only if you have at most 1 tag."); being only semi-recurrable, like "[trash]: ... If you've used this resource's non-[trash] ability this turn, remove it from the game."; or so on.

@paultapping9510 3 ай бұрын

ooh! I've been working on a gnat connections deck, since I just picked up Reign and Reverie. Sebastião would be fun on dj fenris in that.

@xyceres 3 ай бұрын

DJ Fenris says "Host a g-mod identity that does not match the faction of your identity" so you can't DJ Sebastião for Gnat unfortunately.

@paultapping9510 3 ай бұрын

@xyceres aw, shame. I was so excited for another gmod I forgot the other restriction 😅

@thomasberton5657 3 ай бұрын

I find it very interesting that both of you dislike the idea of Meeting of the Minds removing variance from the game, and yet in the Corp video, also seem to dislike the idea of a card like See How They Run *adding* variance to the game. Andrej says here that he prefers to have the game require you to draw cards in the right order, but seemed to feel the opposite about See How They Run. Not a criticism, just curious where those two feelings are coming from .

@YsengrinSC 3 ай бұрын

I'm not going to speak for Andrej here, but I think this is an interesting question so let me take a stab at it. I don't think See How They Run actually has much randomness to it. I'm don't recall our discussion exactly, but the card itself is pretty deterministic. The reason we dislike the Jinteki "is it a trap or a kill card" is because the randomness in that deck flattens the skill curve and expression of the game. So instead of two players making plays based on the tools in both players decks, Jinteki shell game tends to revolve around the order the Corp shuffled their cards, and the runner guessing which traps need to be checked. For Meeting of the Minds I think its reduction in variance is bad because the playstyle it supports is one that does not encourage the runner to take risks, and snowballs. In particular Twinning + Companion based strategies often are oppressive lategame machines, that can break almost any corp defense efficiently, and also sweep the hand/deck for outs that might be hiding there. Adding a tutor for a previously un-tutorable card type could in theory make that deck hit its endgame more consistently. So while it would still be skill expressive, it would reduce the variety between games, which ultimately makes the game more of a drag. Card games are played because you want some amount of variance, no-variance games exist (Go, Chess, etc.), but we're here discussing a game with a ton of built in variance. Tuning what variance you allow, and what feeling of control you give to players is important, and I felt like cards pushed the limits of my preferences on both sides.

@D4v1d-Gr43b3r 3 ай бұрын

@@YsengrinSC I don't think Psi-games, shell games, and so on are as random as rock-paper-scissors or coin-flips, because the commitments and outcomes are asymmetric (like if you still pick from among $0/$1/$2 at a random 33%-33%-33% for Adrian Seis, even when you're on low credits, that's suboptimal, no?). And if you had to commit even more resources to each decision (like, say, $0-$3-$5), or if you had a "cards in hand"-based Psi-game, where you each trash a card or two to match some tripartite predicate (rather than the "credit pool"-based Psi-game), there's variance but not too much randomness.

@D4v1d-Gr43b3r 3 ай бұрын

@@YsengrinSC But I do think there should be more "semi-tutors" (like Frantic Coding's top 10, or even Gachapon's top 6) than tutors, IE that can look through a large part of your topdeck for some kind of card, but not the whole deck.

@dave0754 3 ай бұрын

I think the massive rotation of all FFG stuff later this year will be a complete shake up. It will be worth re-evaluating the whole meta then.

@Phlip45 3 ай бұрын

I think a really weird thing is how often the word "action" is used on cards in this cycle and on NSG cards in general. I think only Jeeves mentioned the word action before NSG cards. For a newer player I think the question of what is the difference between a click and an action is going to come up a lot.

@MetropoleGrid 3 ай бұрын

NSG is a lot more precise with their rules language. There's a handful of older FFG cards that now have modern NSG rules wording that references 'actions'. I totally agree that this might be a point of confusion.

@-Ambos- Ай бұрын

hey, just startet diving into the game and stumbled over this great channel. Could you give me your opinion about next cards I should get? I want to stay nullsignal only. I have the System Getaway and the full LIberation Cycle. System Update 2021 still recommended and future proof? Or just get the Borealis cycle?

@MetropoleGrid Ай бұрын

System Update '21 is often the next product I'd recommend picking up directly after System Gateway. Now that you already own the full Liberation Cycle, by adding System Update, you'll have the entire cardpool for the 'Startup' format. As a caveat, System Update '21 will be rotating out of both the Standard and Startup format early-ish next year when the product codenamed 'Dawn' releases sometime in Q1. While that makes System Update not exactly 'future proof', I still think System Update is a fantastic and flexible set that widens newer players' cardpools in an appreciable way. It's chock-full of strong fundamental cards from across FFG's time with the game. It's great. Now, if you don't want to pursue System Update, I'd recommend grabbing the Borealis Cycle. It's another great thematic cycle, that introduces some exciting keyworded mechanics. And just always keep in mind, at any and all levels of play, NSG allows for proxying. So if there's a certain card that you want to try out but you don't own, just print it out and sleeve it up. And finally, welcome to the game, eh! If you have any questions, don't hesitate.

@-Ambos- Ай бұрын

@@MetropoleGrid Wow thank you so much for your effort to help me understanding this. This is answer helped me perfectly! I guess I might skip the System Update for now and get the Borealis Cycle then. Since everything is still so new to me I will have a lot to discover with the card pool then and might not really notice the lack of System Update until Dawn arrives next year. Thank you again. I am excited about diving deeper into the game and the community

@Baa_Ram_Wu 3 ай бұрын

I’m here to correct you in the comments: It was Hoshiko! (With a virus package)

@AugustusCaesar9464 3 ай бұрын

I wont disagree that some cards are good. But have you seen the corp cards, Tributary, Holo and Charlotte alone are way better that all the runner cards. (And early meta winrates refect this with no corp ID below 50%)

@Sz4r1ej 3 ай бұрын

2 trash cost and they only really work if they stay in the in the remote server for the whole runner turn. No. Holoman is nowhere remotely close to burner or cataloguer which can win you the game in one turn, it's an absurd comparison. Plus the amount of recursion currently available to runners means trojans and breakers never go away from the board

@AugustusCaesar9464 3 ай бұрын

@@Sz4r1ej my experience with cataloguer has had many more situations where i see no agendas in 12 cards than where it wins me the game in one turn. (By that metric, the runner basic action can win you a game in one turn, that is not a high bar for runner cards, whereas it is not uncommon for holoman to score all 7 points)

@celestialspark5697 3 ай бұрын

Ari dunks on Tributary really really hard by using Slap Vandal until the strength sub is relevant and Kyuban after; she can abuse it really hard and force the corp to trash it themselves. Ari can play Clot and Pinhole or just win in like 2 turns off R&D against wide decks. I don't think Shaper is going to have problems once things settle. Crim really didn't get anything this set that is particularly relevant to dealing with the new corp threats, though.

@Sz4r1ej 3 ай бұрын

@@AugustusCaesar9464 The only way to score 7 points in a turn with Holoman is to have a massive Beal which requires 13 advancements within 3 clicks it's impossible even if the Beal and Holoman are already down on the table at the start of the turn. For the Holoman to score 7 points among multiple agenda cards you need it to stick to the table and have enough credits to use it every round. it takes 6 creds to use it first time then consecutive 4 creds and only if you let the agenda lie in the same remote for another full turn meaning you score every second turn. If Runner cannot access that server it usually means you have little to no protection on central servers and runner can just hit your hand with mutliaccess or Burner and prevent you from getting any agendas on hand at the start of your turn. hence comparing it to a card that allows you basically to access 4 cards an costs 2 credit to dump and run is at laughable. They are nowhere near in the same league. Indexing was run in every single Criminal and Shaper deck cause it was that powerful, now having indexing that you can run along ANY other event is insane. You can charge it with Orca, you can charge it with Padme, you can charge it with Flux, you can charge it with Daeg, you can charge it with Stoneship.... On top of that it allows you to access card without even making a return run on the R&D something that makes Indexing look pathetic It's extremely powerful card on top of bunch of other game breaking cards all dumped into one faction. To me it's a joke not a real balanced design

@Sz4r1ej 3 ай бұрын

Comparing this to what the Corporations received in this cycle it's almost laughable how NSG has a clear agenda to make sure Runners have a positive win rate in the games. I'm sure Jeff must be absolutely joking about Managram as a solution to ice destruction, just not very funny. - Arruaceiras Crew is absolutely busted, allows you to destroy ice without even encountering it on tempo. Getting rid of ice for less then it costs corporation to rez most ice is absolutely nuts. the fact you can recover it from bin in hundreds of recure cards in runners possession is just disgusting - Burner is just a brainless card, the only way I can understand its existence is that it was designed by the same people that thought Endurance will be a positive impact on meta. It's absolutely disables Corp for 2 rounds not to mention provides reveal for almost whole hand an possibly wins you the game straight away. Disgusting - Cataloguer is Indexing on steroid, again it exist solely to make sure corps have 0 hidden information form runners and Runners can decide on the tempo of play. At the very least it's access to 4 cards at almost any time in Padme it becomes a miserable slow death to Corp with 0 counterplay. It's as dumb as the previous 2 - Lobisomem - again a breaker that makes breaking everything costs peanuts compared to what it brings. It is just another instance of turbine that makes every non-sentry ice in the game worthless. I can't understand this push to make ultibreakers with 0 downsides, again making sure runner doesn't care what the Corp throws in his path. There's tens and tens of way to cheat out it's initial costs with abundance of tutors in the game currently. In Padma and Kit this card is a total joke you never run out of power tokens and 75% of basically doesn't exist for you. Playing against Shaper is currently a complete misery - Coalensence is single most broken econ thanks to Pawnshop, it's one click 7 creds that you can recure and tutor in myriad of ways not the list with Muse and underlines the ongoing problems with Padma being extremely oppressive and unfun to play against - Trickshot 6 creds (5 positive) and click compression plus multiaccess is absolute nuts. - Ashen Epilogue is just as disheartening to see as any of the other above cards. Recure of all of AC and Burners back into runners deck just feel like conceding right when you see it being played. Another card that is just one sided fun. There is not a single card from the last two expansions that comes even remotely close to those power levels on Corp side. There are some great designs and interesting ideas but it's exhausting to see NSG constantly pushing corps down and making anything but extremely fast advance or kill the only possible ways to win.

@celestialspark5697 3 ай бұрын

It takes context to understand that strong things can exist in the game but get diminished by the fact that they have to play against other strong things. Okay, you can trash all the ice in my deck with Crew, but who is laughing if R+ rezzes a Ping for 0 credits and you pay 4 to trash it, then have to clear two tags? Okay, Spark into Lobisomem is nuts, but do you survive Stafrun or TMB Loki targeting Ansel? Can you deal with SDS Drone Deployment or Amani Senai? Okay, Coalescence has a crazy ceiling of 7 credits and maybe a LilyPAD draw, but on turn 1 it's 2 credits. Can you set up all the pieces that make it pay off fast enough when Asa installed a Rashida and a Wage Workers on turn 1? Okay, Ashen Epilogue refuels the runner's deck. How many corp decks actually care what the runner will do on turn 12-15 to get more econ, about five turns after they expect the game to be decided?

@Sz4r1ej 3 ай бұрын

@@celestialspark5697 yes you laugh at program destruction cause you run Labor rights, Simulchip and Muse Yes you laugh at ping cause you break it for 1 with Lobi or any other breaker Yes you laugh at Asa cause you can keep them poor forcing rez cause again you have so much recursion it doesn't matter if you hit a snag and corp is poor. And yes you laugh when you ashen all your 3 simulchips and muses back and you break bank with coalescence

@celestialspark5697 3 ай бұрын

@@Sz4r1ej Okay, so you're just here to whine and not think about the game, got it.

@Sz4r1ej 3 ай бұрын

@@celestialspark5697 I'd like to think about game but not when it's been clear from the moment Endurance release that NSG designers are on a mission to make shaper the ultimate class. Endurance, Turbine, Cataloguer, Burner, Lobisomem, Hermes, World Tree, Conduit .... all unprecedented extremely powerful effects that put FFG power levels to shame. You don't have to agree with me but you can't deny the fact those cards have no counterpart in the entire history of Netrunner and all are present in the same meta all at once. It's not a game if Runner can easily run every server 4 times a turn dure to how cheap it is to go through every single ice or is able to make corporation basically play with an open hand. Every ice destruction so far has come with limit based on removing the card from the game cause the effect is that powerful and provides such a negative experience to the other player. I'm totally not on board with such easy board destruction and the huge economy advantage of one side over the other.

@D4v1d-Gr43b3r 3 ай бұрын

@@Sz4r1ej Endurance is not "worse than Sifr".