I live in Chile so I can elaborate in some topics. Doug Tompkins bought a lot of wild areas in southern Chile and started the Douglas Tompkins foundation, creating several Parks and accomplishing his conservation intents. Chilean government and industry doesn't give a crap about nature, so Doug's efforts here were really impactful. After his dead, Doug's foundation donated ALL of this wild areas to Chilean park administration, and now they are part of the Chilean National Park system officially. We are all very grateful of the conservation ideals that Tompkins pursued and thanks to him we can enjoy this beautiful places. Nice video, Levi, keep up the good work!

I love how you straight out admitted that there would be some bias in the video. That is the kind of honesty we need in reviewers.

Im from Patagonia, Chile and I would like to share that I was lucky enough to meet Doug and Yvon in person while I working a couple of kilometres away from Doug’s park “Parque Patagonia”, both of them are amazing characters and funny enough they wear each other’s clothing, Doug on his Snap-t and Yvon with his Denali, lots of locals including me were pretty sad when we found out that “Uncle Doug” has passed away, but his contributions still live on and still protected, locals admire his wish to protect the land 🙌

I work for Patagonia and when Yvonne announced the news of earth being the only shareholder it was an astounding feeling and really brings me joy working for a company who truly cares about their people and their well-being and the environment of course putting their money where their mouth is! Let’s see if other companies will follow!!!

I have always had the feeling that Patagonia was actually more sustainably conscious than TNF. Now I know for sure :)

An undervalued part of Patagonia's mission is its support of small businesses doing great things for the environment. A handful of guys saw an opportunity to recycle the massive fishing nets that litter beaches and clog oceans. Bureo started out making skateboard decks and sunglass frames. Patagonia took interest and supported them. Now Bureo is making NetPlus materials for all kinds of uses, including Patagonia Baggies... The company has processed almost 6,000,000 pounds of discarded fishing nets.

I used to work for the umbrella company that owns The North Face and I can tell you that from my personal point of view, I felt like the "efforts" were simply because consumers wanted it and because competitors were doing so. It never felt genuine and they merely rode on Patagonia's coat tails with sustainability and social issues. There were real efforts by employees to make significant strides, but in the end, umbrella company seemed to care more about sales and what's "cool" aka collabs. Ultimately I left because I too, felt like my work and talents were just going towards pushing people to buy things they do not need.

Patagonia actually shares where they make their clothes (more sustainably) so other brands can follow! I really admire that they are such a selfless brand ❤

Don't mind me just interacting for the algorithm

UPDATE: We recognize that the numbers we provided for revenue aren't exact, our intent was to highlight that while these two companies are fundamentally different (public vs privately owned), TNF is much larger than Patagonia is. Also, quick clarification, Monte Fitz Roy is located in El Chalten, Argentina, and sits on the border between the two countries. It's great to see so much positive feedback on this one - stay tuned for more outdoor gear related videos in the future! 🔥👀

I love that I can get my clothes repaired by Patagonia. Their jeans are almost the only pants that I wear and I’ve had some of them repaired now three times! I also really value that they were were made sustainably both in terms of the environment and the treatment/compensation of the people who made them. I’m happy then to pay the higher cost because I know that I am getting a high quality product that can be repaired and will last many many years.

Get my love of the outdoors from my grandfather, who’s a big fly fisherman. He swears by Patagonia and their active approach towards the environment, and it makes me happy to see a company that seemingly puts environmental sustainability over profit

Patagonia has been actively involved with conservation and re-wilding efforts throughout South America, especially in Argentina and Chile. They have donated purchased and donated large land masses to national wildlife parks in Latin America. They are helping reintroduce wildlife to parts of South America that have been exterminated out of existence. I applaud their efforts.

I remember when I got into snowboarding in the mid 90s. That’s where I got exposed to really smart outer wear. Back then I got the impression that Patagonia was innovative, original and eye wateringly expensive. Tnf was doing what everyone else had been doing, several years behind. And was affordable. They reminded me of Columbia. I am now a middle age carpenter in coastal New England. After all this time, work wear companies are noticing the loss to mountain wear companies and are finally making their clothes for people who move for a living. I recently learned that Patagonia has been making carpenter styled pants out of hemp. I might just get some when my current stock starts blowing out. Hemp is supposed to be super durable. If they can make them a little stretchy by that time, I’ll pay whatever.

Little did you know, Patagonia would change the game completely 9 months later! In no way this video or its message has become irrelevant but just giving away the company to a new-founded non-profit and foundation would've been a huge point here. I've been a huge fan of Patagonia as a brand and supported their approach to sustainability for years now but this was just a major step unprecedented not only in fashion!

This is a really interesting back story. Quite a dicotomy between their sustainability values and the disposable nature of the modern clothing industry.

TNF has really good marketing, and Patagonia is kind of behind the curtains. Collab with Supreme brought a lot of attention to hypebeasts. With Gucci to trend setters. Patagonia focuses on other things IMO.

I’ll always be a Patagonia customer, and in terms of companies I think Patagonia has the clear win of The North Face in terms of sustainability, innovation and even quality of products. It actually drive me crazy how many climbers keep their North Face sponsorships since the companies current state and direction is so far away from whatever environmental and ethical integrity that it started out with from Doug - that’s a very specific gripe within the climbing industry though. In terms of legacies left, Patagonia has always been used as a vehicle to promote, encourage and innovate - fight the good fight from the inside consumerism if you will - even if Yvon has long since stepped away from an active business role within the company, his direction in the early years has inspired millions and that’s a legacy that will probably outlast the company. The North Face as a reflection of Doug seems pretty negligible since he left so long ago and in my mind his conservation efforts are those of a private citizen, which seems pretty bloody impressive. It’s just unfortunate that he did create a company that cares more about turning profit than the planet that it’s marketing itself off of.

1:17 Respect for the disclaimer. It's rare to find someone online that admits his biases. I appreciate it immensely.

I find these kind of informative videos really helpful to keep updated with our consumerism’s behavior. As outdoor enthusiasts we often fall on our own trap of buying from brands and assume they care about the environment just because you know “obviously they care about nature if they’re in this kind of business “ right? The thing is that is really important to keep our own values on track when answering questions such as the ones you propose at the end: do I need this? Is it second hand? Etc and of course forget about what social standards “drilled” into our heads about status, luxury and the concept of necessity.

In my opinion both actions are important...we need all sort of changes to achieve the best results. Change the brand from inside to help create a new way of looking at sustainable fashion is great and helpful, but we also need actions that have a direct impact on the environment to help to preserve it while our mentality shift!

Hey, loving the new channel! I've done a lot of research on Thompkins' conservation efforts for undergraduate research projects. Deep Ecology was an organization separate from his direct conservation projects that was intended to promote the ideas of deep Ecology around the world (they used to have a website, I can't find it anymore either). Conservation Land Trust and Conservacion Patagonica were the conservation projects. All three foundations are now the Thompkins foundation. I also think it's very important to note Kristine McDivitt Tompkins' contributions. She helped found Patagonia and was CEO for much of it's rise. She contributed massively both financially and managerially to Doug's conservation efforts. Also, Thompkins foundation has protected more like 14 million acres of land.

Great research. I got my 1st Patagonia jacket this past winter. I was looking at many other companies, including North Face. I'm very happy with the jacket. Knowing the background just confirms that it was a good purchase.

Just a geographical note to what you've said at the beginning of your video. Mount Fitz Roy stands in Argentina and Chile Patagonia region. Both countries “share” this mountain. Very nice and interesting video by the way. Keep it up!

Love your vids. Starting to love Patagonia more and more because of this channel.

Hey man, loved your video and I’m a proud owner of both brands functional items for my mountaineering expeditions. Just thought that you missed one point not he The North Face is how much they’ve pushed the sport of climbing, and all mountain stuff with their athletes especially. I believe it’s really a big part of their DNA and I salute them for that.

Thanks! Was between buying North Face or Patagonia, buying Patagonia. Great video!

Been binge watching this channel this last few days. Absolutely loving the content!

I have always been a fan of both companies for different reasons, but what Doug has done really shows true virtue

Loved this video!! just received a Patagonia second hand jacket this Christmas!! (best of both worlds) keep up the great work-Jenny

Dude, this video was so pleasing to watch. Long time Patagonia fan and outdoor enthusiast. This is the first video I’ve seen of yours, instant follow 👏🏼

good video! patagonia is a company I would want leading the charge of things like this. SO I am happy they exist and continue to set the standard

Unable to remark on jackets, have North Face mummy that was purchased in 1969 still in perfect condition. Was used yearly till 2017.

Insightful video, great storytelling and really well-produced too! Your case 'against' The North Face is a bit thin in places though. Offering 100% recycled fabrics and then marketing them in such a way that they are appealing to fashionistas who would otherwise never buy sustainable clothing is a win for everyone, and I think Patagonia would agree. They wouldn't be an activist company if they'd object to others copying their environmentally friendly ideas (a bit like Tesla 'giving away' its patents). So calling that greenwashing is perhaps a bit harsh. Other than that: great work! I would be interested in more digging into what really makes companies 'green', since just about every outdoors company claims to be sustainable.

Thank you, meng! Top tier production on top of a truly honest set of sentiments, thoughtfully put into words. Who knew clothes were so meaningful, eh?

North Face is now an urban jacket. I only ever see people wearing them around cities, i never see them worn doing trekking or climbing

I live in Ventura California and I started to hear about Patagonia about 5 years ago and I started to like the idea about buying less but quality products to help the planet. since then I'm just not buying clothes as before and I prefer Patagonia. Another point is that Patagonia workers are treated nice from what I heard here in the store located in Ventura :)

Yay thanks to being in health crisis and being in my hospital bed at 3am, this is amazing! I love this channel.

Nice video, Levi. I've just come from the Cult of Hydro Flask video and I have to say you've earned yourself a new subscriber. I enjoy your more environmentally-focused take on things.

So glad I came across this channel love it keep doing what your doing

Even though I’ve generally supported The North Face, I’ve definitely seen them come out with a lot more collaborations-or just outdoor gear in general- that seems to be focused more on aesthetics than functionality. I like a lot of their staple products (the Denali fleece, thermoball jackets are decent) but I’m not a fan of the random fashion collabs. I’m not opposed to the fashion industry wholesale but I just have more respect for outdoor brands who try to increase their market share by product innovation, not Gucci collabs. Very interesting video! It’s my first one and I will definitely be watching more.

Loved this! My friend pokes fun at me for buying Patagonia because it's more expensive and he refers to it as Patagucci. This video has really helped me! I had no idea about the origins of The North Face. Just goes to show what different paths a brand can take when the founder leaves the company and takes his original vision and passion with him. In the meantime, BRB, just going to buy some $890 Gucci x North Face 'slides' so I can go hiking in what look like some woolly slippers.

The pic of the two founders in their shades is so cool. Great vid.

My Patagonia jacket will not die. 5 years on a construction site and its still nice enough to wear to dinner. (After washing)

im wearing a patagonia tshirt at this very moment, which i bought over 10 years ago and have been using frequently. I can vouch for the quality of their products for sure! for some reason ive never bought anything else patagonia, i think ill change that

I have a couple of items from both brands that I love, but now prefer to see if I can get a good deal on Patagonia stuff, because it seems to last longer. I also love Fjallraven, because they make stuff that lasts and also focus on sustainability. Generally, I just want stuff that I can use for years, cause I don't get bored of my clothes or bags that easily.

Love this video! Nice work man

Just found this vlog? I find this information incredibly interesting and helpful when it comes to where my money and vote goes. Thanks for putting these together. 😊

Great video! I knew Patagonia was more about conservation and activism, but didn't know it was so hardcore. I always thought of North Face as just another fashion brand. Glad I wasn't too far off. Although I'm not really outdoorsey, when I need something for the outdoors, I gravitate to MEC. Good bang for the buck and their stuff tries to be sustainable.

Nice video! New sub here. Here's my ramblings on this subject below: I was a fan of The North Face back in the Doug days right up until the Vanity Fair buyout. I liked the quality of their gear and their over all direction. In that time they seemed to have the technical market covered. After the VF buyout I could notice the quality changing and the prices going up. I think it's been the same ever since. To me The North Face is more a fashion company now catering to the people like you said in the video that think they need outdoor gear when they really don't (whether it's as a status symbol or whatever). Don't get me wrong they do still have some pieces of gear at the very high end that you might take on a serious adventure but overall not so great for what you're paying for. Patagonia. I've always been a fan and honestly they seem to be (and always have been) the lighthouse in the fog. Other companies have gone up and come back down, come onto the scene and faded. Patagonia though has never moved away from care of the environment, innovation, and just doing things right. Yes it's expensive stuff (ie the term Patagucci getting thrown out so much) but unlike a pair of The North Face Gucci collaboration boots you know well it'll last for a long time through many adventures. When it's about time to retire the gear you can send it back to Patagonia for repair or even get something in return if it's beyond fixing. This is where Patagonia is reaching above. There's the Used Wear store, there's the articles and diys on how to fix your own equipment, etc. Do you see anything like this from The North Face? I'll answer that for you I don't. Mountain Hardwear. I've got a "love hate" relationship with these guys. I absolutely loved this company when it started out right up until Colombia Sportswear bought them out. Today they are a shell of their former selves. This was a company you could count on having highly technical gear, made with input from athletes in the field mountaineering 8000m peaks, to serious trail hikers, to everyone in between. The equipment wasn't cheap, but the quality and innovation weren't either. They typically used the best materials and designs for the intended product. People expecting to use their apparel as casual gear or even their equipment casually complained that it didn't work but it wasn't for them. Sizing was for made for athletes or someone that was serious about their outdoor adventures. Not only this you could count on them having the same models of jackets, pants, hats, etc every year but maybe with some color changes or improvements. Nowadays I liken them to a fast fashion type of company. The positives I just spoke of are gone. They make products for that year and then they are gone. When they've revisited a famous product from the past like the Windstopper Tech Fleece Jacket it's been a horrible knock off of the original, quality wise, sizing wise, etc. It's not like there isn't Gore Windstopper fabric anymore as I've bought some to make jackets of my own design, it's that they are too cheap. In all fairness I get what motivated them to sell to Colombia and I bet there's some very talented people at Mountain Hardwear, but they are limited and handicapped by Colombia Sportwear and by extension stockholders where it's a public company. This brings up another good point Patagonia is one of a handful of private companies with no other corporate overlord or stockholders. For Patagonia those are the employees. Does this help their efforts? I think so completely. Westcomb. I didn't know much about these guys until in the last few years but I'm really liking what they do. Production is in Canada 100%. To me they are Mountain Hardwear at the beginning. Unlike Mountain Hardwear they've stayed true to their roots. I have several pieces of their gear and it's about as high notch as you can get. I see other once high end companies in the industry following suit of Mountain Hardwear and The North Face. Arcteryx unfortunately is going the same direction. I wasn't worried when they decided to move production out of Canada. I figured they would be one of the few companies that could turn that negative into a positive. It's worked for a long while but I think it's finally wearing off. Their quality has diminished while prices have skyrocketed. I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't more of a fashion company in a decade like The North Face. There's many more examples of this in the industry which makes me keep turning back to Patagonia.

So glad I stumbled across this video. So fascinating to learn the connection between the two companies.

I recently just found that buying second hand is my new passion in life. My significant partner laughs at me because she's known this forever. It's hugely satisfying to find the best gear, in great condition for 1/3 or 1/4 or the price.

Levi just a tiny correction... Mount Fitz Roy is actually in Argentina, located in Los Glaciares National Park close to the Chilean border. Awesome video anyway. Hope you have a great start to 2022.

I'd love a deep dive on Arc'teryx. I consider them to be the Ferrari of outdoor gear: ungodly expensive but also unsurpassed in performance.

Amazing video, ty!

There is a great video (on KZfaq) documenting the trip described here in this video. A great watch for any fans of climbing, surfing, and skiing.

Thank you for the informative video.. I am an outdoorsman myself and never really considered Patagonia wear because of price. I do have a couple of Northface coats and was very happy that they replaced a broken zipper for free. I thought that simply reflected a company's commitment to quality; Ihope that also reflects a more sustainable direction for NF. Looking back I fervently admire Yvon's philosophies. I think though rather than run out and start buying Patagonia equipment I can be a better planetary citizen by buying less stuff and that includes unneeded clothes.

As someone born and raised in Patagonia (the actual place) I can tell you that Douglas Tompkins did so much to protect the Patagonian region by buying that amount of land. Because of it, multinationals trying to take our natural resources were blocked. The brand Patagonia, has not really done nothing for us (not that they have to anyways) besides cultural appropriation by using our name.

i'm obsessed with your content i'm sending to all my friends

Fantastic video! Thanks for creating this.

My favorite brands ranked 1) Arcteryx 2) Mountain Hardwear 3) Patagonia 4) Black Diamond 5) Columbia (Love Their Fleece Jackets) 6) The North Face 7) Cotopaxi 8) Outdoor Research

They are all same - Patagonia, vf (northface), anta sports (arcteryx). They are all clothing manufacturers and retailers selling clothes to masses, all over the world. BTW, Doug created a national park in Chile. If Patagonia cares about the environment so much, why are they opening new stores all over the world to sell clothing to people who really do not need them, but aspire to.

I just found u and love your videos! I’m binging all ur videos! Keep up the fantastic work😊

Wow this shed such a light on sustainable fashion for me! Intelligent insight, thank you :)

I think getting out of the industry if you realize that you are overwhelmed and sacrificing your (mental) health for it is a good thing, but as long as you can it is also incredibly important to initiate change about things that you are passionate about and to give people the alternative opportunity to cast their vote apart from the climate killing brands :)

Back in the early 70's, I bought my first North Face jacket. It was bombproof. The quality was top-notch. It was expensive, but worth it. Eventually, I needed to replace it and I bought a similar looking North Face jacket at REI in the mid-80's. Almost immediately, I noticed the quality was bad. The zipper constantly got snagged or went off-track. The fabric surface quickly showed signs of delamination . I talked with a friend who was an REI employee and, given the number of customer returns, he agreed that North Face's quality had gotten bad. North Face had lowered its quality and price to stay competitive and appeal to everyone; not just backpackers, climbers, hikers, etc. North Face's quality is just slightly better than similar apparels sold by Old Navy, The GAP, Walmart, Target, etc.

Good and thoughtful content. Subscribed!

Keep up the good work! These videos are so interesting

Great information! Will gladly steer my dollars to companies like Patagonia if I need to buy new items.

Interesting video. I knew about TNF before Patagonia and have bought TNF outwear. However, I will soon be buying Patagonia because they have a place in my wardrobe. Both are businesses and need to make money; whatever their credentials, like the 'average man in the street' they could both do more than what they advertise they are doing..

Both keep me warm in the winter. I own a few north face and Patagonia goose down jackets and both are great imo.

I know this isn't a review per se, but props to you for saying upfront that you were a bit biased. I wish all KZfaqr reviewers were more like you.

Great video, even tho maybe a bit bias ;) !! Patagonia is a common case study used in MBAs during classes about sustainability and ethics. It's not the most "international" of brands (I live in Malaysia and we don't have stores here or even boutiques that sell them)... I purchased my first Patagonia items when I lived in Zurich over winter for 6 months and love the brand and the products and their post purchase service (repairs at the end of the winter season is commonplace!). North Face is definitely more global and can be found in most countries... As much as I might have liked them in the early days, their "street" collaborations and their ridiculous Gucci collaboration has turned me off the brand. I much prefer Patagonia's sustainability message...

Patagonia has been known as Patagucci in Seattle since the 80's. The Patagonia store was the place people who wanted to look like they did outdoor stuff went for clothing, and REI was where the people who actually did outdoor stuff went. I've never owned anything Patagonia. When I was young and broke, I would mostly buy Columbia, but for something critical, like my main rain jacket, I would upgrade to the REI house brand. Now, I stick with the REI house brand.

just found out this video and your channel... really love this!

Awesome video man, love your channel!

I know pitting two popular companies against each other is Good For The Algorithm™, but it's not a zero-sum-game here. A larger brand like North Face pivoting to more sustainable materials/packaging/etc is a net good for the planet. It doesn't really matter if Patagonia "did it earlier," and North Face throwing their buying power around in the source material market is going to make it easier other companies to get recycled product.

I love your videos! As someone who is very passionate about the environment and its preservation, this video was very educational. I have to ask, I was looking into buying some backpacking clothing and fjallraven kept coming up, yet I am finding a lot of conflicting information regarding their environmental impact. Could you perhaps cover them in some future video? Keep up the great work!

I think the interview Yvon Chouinard gave in Guy Raz's podcast How I Built This was fascinating. He went into great detail about how he wasn't just some kid going from surfing to skiing to hiking etc, he talked about how he was inspired to start a business involving things he loved, and how he later urged people to not use his earlier products and instead switch to his new products (chocks instead of pitons) as they were more environmentally friendly. He seemed like a really interesting guy.

Great videos! Keep going!

Do you have any plans on making content on MEC (for Canada) and the USA equivalent REI?

WOW! I was always wondering about these two brands. For sure Patagonia is more a sustainable brand but I love TNF design more. Thank you!

When I lived in Canada I used to wear my ski jacket almost every day during winter. And I see no issue with that. I needed a ski jacket years before that to ski (it was cheaper to buy it on sale than ranting) so when I moved there, it was what I had. It works better than normal winter jackets. And I see it as a sustainable approach because the most sustainable thing to wear is what you already have.

Patagonia is my favorite brand period! These products are not only sourced smart but are made extremely well and last! I cannot give this brand enough praise and hope other brands follow suit.

Fjällräven is great, if you don't mind the vintage look. I remember they were nearly impossible to find outside of Europe, and now they seem to be super trendy (or at least the Kanken bags are). I hope their popularity doesn't lead to a decline in quality. Also, I like the effort they put into saving arctic foxes. Another Swedish company that makes good stuff (and more modern, despite being a much older company) is Haglöfs. I think they are about on par with Arc'teryx. I have a couple The North Face parkas. They're alright, not that great. Some of the hard plastic parts - buckles, etc. - and elastic drawstrings broke rather quickly, and the lining of one split. I also have a sleeping bag, it's fine, no issues. I probably won't be buying any more of their products though.

One comment I heard regarding The North Face is that it has become more associated with casual city wear, especially with one of their more popular sellers being the puffy Retro Nuptse Jacket (which in my opinion is more for aesthetic than function), and this has seemed to occur alongside a slight drop in product build quality. I personally only ever owned a backpack and a tent from TNF so I can't judge their outdoor clothing quality, but if the comments from these wearers are true then my best guess is that they are just deciding to appeal to a different demographic than before. And like you showed with their strange collaborations, it seems their company's "intent" is just vastly different from Patagonia now. However if their quality is decreasing, their costs (which are as high as Patagonia on comparable items) then seem out of place to me.

Learned something new! As die hard fan of water proof (flip phone, smartphone, jacket, long coats, pants, etc) this makes me happy.

My family is from Ojai and I live in SF. I did know about this friendship. Buying Patagonia since the 1970’s. They are the best!

I'd be interested to hear about Arc'teryx as well. :-) Great video.

Mount Fitz Roy is located in El Chalten argentinean Patagonia, not Chile. Torres del Paine is chilenean

Great vid!!

Great video, really fun

Normally LOVE your stuff, but this one really feels too heavily influenced by your fanboy love of Patagonia. And when you talk about Northface it sounded like a star trek fan talking about Star Wars

I appreciate this video. I have a lot of second-hand TNF outerwear that I really like. If I bought either of these companies' products (the less technical items at least) I'd first consider second-hand options.

Another piece worth noting is that Chouinard Equipment (the actual climbing hardware) was rebranded as Black Diamond in the late 80's. Any climber out there knows Black Diamond gear as being one of the world's leading brands for nuts, cams, harnesses, ropes etc...

Great content on this channel! Liked and subbed

I was considering a North Face ski jacket but decided against because it is just another huge corporate company. Just bought my forever jacket from Patagonia after they dedicated their company to the environment. Easy math to do.

I’m really into rock climbing and the north face is one of climbing’s biggest sponsors so I have a natural affinity for them. I do wish that they would get back to their roots and stop some of the mainstream collabs (supreme, Gucci, etc…) But I like the fact that they’re a little more affordable than Patagonia and don’t come with the same type of sort of “look at me, I wear Patagonia, and drive a Tesla, and own every piece of apple equipment there is” kind of image. And maybe that’s just around here, but that’s kinda the feeling that I get from Patagonia, kind of an elitist “I care more about the world than you do” feeling, I dunno. I do have some Patagonia gear though so I don’t think you can go wrong with either gear wise. So yep, a little hypocrisy on my part but that’s my rant for the day so…….Great video though dude✌🏽😃✌🏽

Wow, thank you. I'm buying all my gear from Patagonia from now on.

Our actions today, determine our future tomorrow. Great video, great insight into two of the outdoor industries giants.