The Duality of Art - with DC Schindler (Climbing Mt Sophia)

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Күн бұрын

This is a repost of a great discussion I had on the Climbing Mt. Sophia channel alongside DC Schindler. We discuss beauty, art, freedom, techne and technology, primarily exploring the question: what is beauty?
Original: Climbing Mt. Sophia - Beauty, Art and Freedom with Jonathan Pageau and DC Schindler: • Beauty, Art and Freedo...
Jonathan’s video on contemporary art: The Search for Participation in Contemporary Art: • The Search for Partici...
David and Ken’s series on Freedom from Reality: Part 1; Good, Functionality and Unease with DC Schindler: • Freedom from Reality: ...
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Join us for the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida.
Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024
Tickets start at $399: thesymbolicworld.com/summit
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Coming up
0:57 - Intro music
1:23 - Introductions
2:34 - Topics for this discussion
2:52 - Techne vs modern technology
7:31 - Techne as a way of knowing: top-down and bottom-up
11:36 - Bottom-up art
13:47 - What is beauty?
18:06 - Find the right curve
23:29 - Freedom in appearance/manifestation
27:18 - Marginalization of art
29:40 - The duality of art and the perfection of beauty
36:15 - Spiritual experiences
40:23 - Beauty even in death
47:34 - Technology
58:13 - ChatGPT
1:00:56 - True beauty will survive
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
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Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976
A small portion of the audio content in this video belongs to Dirt Poor Robins. We have received explicit permission from Dirt Poor Robins to use their music in this video to advertise an event where they will be present as performing artists.
All video posted is merely for educational, commentarial, and informational purposes under Fair Use law. All rights and credit go directly to its owners. No copyright infringement intended.

Пікірлер: 40

@JoshuaRolen 8 ай бұрын

Excessive contrapposto leads often to right lateral pelvic tilt and side pain. A very common condition. Doing postural restoration exercises for that condition can help with the chronic pain it causes.

@mavenbraun5701 8 ай бұрын

Wrong. Strengthen abs counter hyperlirdosis.

@animula6908 7 ай бұрын

I’m excited about the summit. I was going to go until I got accepted into a certification program that’s going to demand a lot of time for the next several months. The great news is that I’ll be able to plan for attending the next one with a lot more disposable income after I get the program done, so I’ll be watching to see how the first one goes to plan accordingly for 2025.❤

@alexr.3504 6 ай бұрын

This conversation was amazing. Beauty is something I didn’t fully appreciate until I gave it thorough thought while finishing my English degree. It’s become so important to me as a Christian; I was missing so much of who God is and what He did in Christ without it. Also, 1:00:55: arguing with ChatGPT is totally something I would end up doing and this cracked me up! 😂Get it, Jonathan!

@marcschaeffer1584 8 ай бұрын

Falling spaghetti monster: contrapasta

@ibelieve3111 7 ай бұрын

Thanks

@thomasmoritz6853 8 ай бұрын

finally - christopher alexander gets mentioned! i have been delving into his work since 15 years from a christian (catholic & orthodox) perspective

@eastudio-K 8 ай бұрын

This is just a play of words, and from an old professor, but might be a good idea to make the distinction between beauty and beautiful If it’s full of beauty, then there’s no room for anyone else

@lifearttimes 8 ай бұрын

This dialogue is fantastic. Thank You. My thoughts are, a straight line is between two points and the curved line connects many points and therefore, allows for the beauty to emerge. Perfection is boring, nuances in the imperfections are thought provoking…Duality, at its best!🪔🪷🪔

@missycar 6 ай бұрын

This is my favourite podcast Jonathan. Thank you , it's such important work and I thoroughly enjoy the knowledge you and your guests offer. I'd really love to hear you discuss figureheads and marine symbols like the mythical creatures on building facia. Our supreme Court in Melbourne Australia has females with Octopus legs.. I found those fascinating.

@ashtonmiller9756 8 ай бұрын

I remember seeing a similar comparison of the relationship between the absolute and particular being illustrated by moonlight. Moonlight is the reflection of the sun's rays. So it's from the sun but you couldn't have it without the moon. Would that be an accurate comparison?

@AS-yh6xu 8 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!

@vincentlewis5 8 ай бұрын

E. Michael Jones wrote a book entitled "The Dangers of Beauty."

@mostlydead3261 8 ай бұрын

beauty thru excess.. great talk..

@andrewternet8370 8 ай бұрын

Man discovered hardstyle

@almondtree 8 ай бұрын

This whole topic is the movie Annihilation It’s such an amazing film Pageau would totally get it. It’s a flood story.

@chrisc7265 8 ай бұрын

the novella that movie is based on is amazing it's part of a trilogy and the 2nd and 3rd totally lose the thread but the first one is very on point short read, definitely recommend it

@icarovdl 8 ай бұрын

Yeah but that movie also seems heavily affected by the modern feminisation of narrative theres some bad stuff in there

@almondtree 8 ай бұрын

@@icarovdl Yeah it is haunting. "The Shimmer" - the rainbow colored, consuming force of beauty without a telos (or something like that). I used to never like horror films (and most of them I still don't), but every once in a while I will come across one that is so accurate that it almost serves as a prophetic warning. The VVitch is another one I love. "Black Phillip" is scapegoating, the pointing of the finger. It is a hauntingly accurate film.

@eqapo 8 ай бұрын

54:10 a misologist would retort, "Why can't you just let a good thing be Good?!"

@JoelSjogren0 8 ай бұрын

Please adjust the sound volume of the speakers to be more equal.

@eqapo 8 ай бұрын

28:00 totally agree with the claim of marginalization of art. However, I would challenge the "its just a beat you dance to," which I take to refer to the global phenomenon of rave and edm, if you allow me. There are genuinely inspired edm musicians and artists in the biggest of festivals providing that connection that churches have. In a culture that does marginalize this art, there you see how wide that margin is... even the most popular festivals are appreciated only as vacation, weekend, unintegrated and uniterated community. Contemporary spirituality is underground.

@improvisedchaos8904 7 ай бұрын

i challenge the "its just a beat you dance to" with ; it is influenced by spirit, balancing frequencies in perfect timing- The song is always a perfect circle; the song must mind natural cycles- like tides, breath, or day/night. Once the day/night cycle is set, you may "stay up all night"/"rise when all goes down." The song Hickory Dickory Dock makes a joke of that very notion; the mouse in fact does not go back down the clock if you keep track of where the word "down" falls on the beat (falls on upbeat, as does mouse.) It's a "silly little inversion" ;)

@vagabondcaleb8915 8 ай бұрын

Have you ever come in contact with Forrest Landry? I'd love to hear you two talk. He's talked with John Vervaeke several times.

@Richard_Paradise 8 ай бұрын

👍♥

@daanvangeijlswijk7787 8 ай бұрын

@JonathanPageau Hi Jonathan, I will be attending the Symbolic World Summit. I will be there already on the 26th, so if you need help with something, let me know.

@superpeaceloveunity 8 ай бұрын

To Jonathan or any of the speakers; or any seasoned artists for that matter, where does life drawing at an academic level come in to play in regards to all this? Both for the artists learning to draw the human form and the model that is serving. From my experience, it is almost never an erotically charge environment. But I would like to hear the take of other seasoned artist, especially from an orthodox perspective.

@eastudio-K 8 ай бұрын

Alvar Aalto architect worked with the straight and the curve

@jamescastro2037 8 ай бұрын

As words are a form that we cast ourselves in. So words cast what forms ourselves. Can we break bread. Highly unlikely, because we b read.

@improvisedchaos8904 7 ай бұрын

they break bread with ill timed breaths

@omarloi7389 8 ай бұрын

Interesting talk. Beauty is impure, flawed and useful..

@eqapo 8 ай бұрын

47:00 is it possible that in those spanish images it speaks to that particular community whose daily lives are, to be blunt, gorier than the privilege white lives that judge them? The phenomonology of beauty is universal and we can speak of it objectively, but none can say to whom and when beauty unveils itself to one and not the other. In this sense we can recover "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

@razvan_anton 8 ай бұрын

I like Pageau's take on abstract art except when it comse to Constantin Brancusi. He thinks Brancusi made art abstract like Picasso or the rest of the French artists but Brancusi made art like his ancestors. Not the same thing .

@razz5558 6 ай бұрын

I found the references in this conversation as to what constitutes "beauty" to be vague. I wish you gentlemen had spent some bit of time defining the "pornographic art" that you mentioned once or twice. Certainly, you were not employing the well worn, lame definition of pornography as "art without merit". That definition is in the end a fallacy at best. I find Bacon's work utterly fascinating and gorgeous. I am a cartoonist and a painter that exalts visceral and diabolical images. God gave me my abilities. He has not demanded that I waste it on Sistine chapels and Rockwell images of the nuclear family venturing into the countryside for a 4th of July picnic. I paint the world live in and it is one that daily exceeds the world that Otto Dix painted. the Bible itself is a parade of diabolical and visceral images of death and horror. In representing these circumstances, I believe that I am reflecting the architecture of creation and being. It is for God alone to decide whether I am fallen or ascending when I set to work in my studio.

@anthonygoodman48 8 ай бұрын

Hi Johnathon, do you find the fact that you enjoy 'fame' (or influence) based in part on logarithms that are ambivalent troubling? I'm curious. I mean its hard to sort out sometimes. Or is this just a 'free' marketplace. I mean I think God can and does invert even the logarithms. I just wonder what your thoughts are on this.

@SF.B 8 ай бұрын

Jonathan, I want your honest answer. Do you have inserts from Catholics and Protestants on your Orthodox music playlist? Something like Miserere mei, psalms sung by Sister Marie Keyrouz, or maybe you ever listened and liked "Way Maker" or "My God is an Awesome God"?