Magnus: ... Ahriman: Okay, technically, I didn't fail. If you view that the objective was to purely prevent further mutation, then technically this was a rousing- Magnus: Get. Out.

"Mr. Ahriman... I don't feel so good..."

Can't suffer with fleshchange if you have no flesh. _taps head_

Given this it's still possible that that Bloodravens are from 15th legion stock. How else could you do a backflip in terminator armor if you weren't a God tier psychic?

How to fix a curse. Put another curse upon yourself

00:30 not gonna lie, I immediately thought of the Firefox symbol.

They must be one hell of a troll to Tyranids. All that effort to open them up and they are WELL past the sell by.

“BROTHER I AM DUST!”

Ahriman did nothing wrong. Except befriend Erebus. That was wrong.

Dust, lots of it, in the Thousands Sons' case. Also, a feather duster fan club was formed that day.

When you take into account that spells and sorcery are more about enforcing the caster's will and design than they are a scientific process, I don't think the Rubric affects all Thousand Sons gene-seed everywhere. I think it affects all those with Thousand Sons gene-seed who identify as being of the Thousand Sons. That's why the chapters made from their gene-seed aren't affected, but those out-of-time Thousand Sons who stepped out of the portal were immediately affected by it. So basically I think the Rubric was more about Ahriman saying "Let all Thousand Sons be cured of the flesh change" and not "Let anyone with our gene-seed be cured of the flesh change."

They say Ahriman can do the Rubric Cube in under 10 seconds 😉

Laugh with me Rubrics! Tts is what i thought of when i saw this video.

Here’s an idea: There was nothing wrong with the Rubric of Ahriman. By this I mean that if the spell backfired, it is because it was sabotaged by Tzeentch. Think about it, that spell drove a wedge between Magnus and Ahriman, giving Tzeentch his greatest mortal champion and gifted the servants of Tzeentch with increased magical might. That’s why Ahriman can’t find a cure: despite ten thousand (give or take warp-related nonsense) years to study the spell he himself designed. The spell he designed is actually flawless. As for why the Blood Ravens and Flame Falcons weren’t afflicted, either Tzeentch or Ahriman made it so only traitor Thousand Sons would be affected since Ahriman didn’t want to help his ennemies and/or Tzeentch had no design for them in this particular plan.

I'm a TSONS player. The TSONS codex outright states that post-Prospero TSONS sorcerers are created with magic, not gene-seed science. Page 38 ("On occasion a powerful warp-mage from another Chaos legion will be guided by Tzeentch to seek out the Planet of Sorcerers and pledge his existence to Magnus. However, most of the Thousand Sons sorcerers arise from the ranks of Aspiring Sorcerers. These under-mages are often created from the psykers of Tzeentchian cults, who through profane demagoguery draw the attention of an invading sect. They are taken to Tzica, where they are subjected to ritual transformations to enhance their body and mind. Most are driven mad or are torn apart by the sudden influx of empyric energy; others die slow and agonizing deaths as warp drenched augmentative organs mutate their host bodies. But those few who survive are born anew as witch-warriors of the thousand sons.") It' still unclear whether new rubrics can be created but it is stated that smaller rubrics are cast by some post-prospero sorcerors.

The wonders I could have performed on this chapters gene-seed if given the chance. It’s a shame

Just pluck enough feathers off Magnus to infuse each new aspirant with mini-Magnuses. The added benefit is they get a free recall back to Terra when needed.

Would units on the tabletop gain a bonus to hit Thousand Sons if the models were equipped with dust pans?

The blood ravens stole the effect and hid it in the chapter vault, it's how they roll.

Given the complexity and Grand particularity of the rubric, I believe it a more likely situation that Ahriman had in his mind the concept of the Thousand Sons at risk of the flesh change when the spell was cast. Is doubtful that the sorcerer had in mind the future potential generations of gene seed that was loyal to the Emperor during the spell. I think that all of the Thousand Sons that existed at the time when the rubric was cast, in the understanding of Ahriman, were those that were affected. He was the principal of the spell and therefore it would function in terms of his understanding. This is why those loyal successors of the Thousand Sons who are not yet crafted, Blood Ravens, would not be affected in the future.

The blood ravens are thousand sons, change my mind.

These guys and the Alpha Legion are my favorite Chaos Legions so this was definitely a really good watch/listen!

the Rubric could have specified the Thousand Sons and not anyone who had Magnus' geneseed and as we know in dealing with the chaos gods the details are very important.

I would still think that there is a good way of Blood Ravens being Magnus boys and not be affected by the Rubrik curse, and that is, if the effect of the rubric curse was limited individuals or groups before a certain time, or with certain identity groups (say if the blood ravens were the thousand sons of a group (corvidae) not named in the rubric spell or something)

Well, today is my last day on vacation...at least there's a new Theories video!🤘

So nice to hear Naerina!

I've always been a fan of the Blood Ravens being a Loyalist successor to the Thousand Sons. If I were take a stab at it. One could argue that because of the esoteric and symbolic nature of sorcery and the warp the Rubric could have been countered in a sense. Much of the Blood Ravens history is hidden from them. I imagine they managed to prove to the Inquisition that they were loyal and a deal was made to put their records under lock and key. That said what if it goes farther than that. The Blood Ravens could have been affected by the Rubric in all that time and either found a work around thus binding that work around to their chapter and keeping the secret to keep it out of the hands of traitors, or maybe the Blood Ravens did find a way to bypass it by having their history hidden from them, symbolically with some probable heretical sorcery thrown into the mix removing them from the rubric because they don't believe that they are Thousand Sons. Thus discovering more about their past could doom them to being affected by the Rubric. I guess what I am theory crafting is this 1. Old Blood Ravens found a fix to the Rubric and along with the Inquisition keep it and their origins hidden to prevent traitors from getting it. 2. Old Blood Ravens and the Inquisition after years of trying found a work around that involved sealing away their identity and through the use of the symbolic nature of the warp and sorcery were able to not be affected by the Rubric because they don't know or believe themselves to be Thousand Sons.

Mechanicum Biologis: Unexpected Choas in the Geneseed area!

I'm sure Cawl can craft them some plot armour.

What are the effects? D U S T Y B O Y S

Been wondering about the Earthling ones for along time, thanks for that.

More videos about the 15th please! Excellent video!

So, I came here because in the side-bar, I thought I saw the title "The Effects Of The Rubric Upon Gene-Stealers", and I was like, "Wait, wut?" and couldn't help but click it. Then, after about a minute, I realized it was "gene-seed". Good video all the same, but now I really want to know how gene stealers would react to being turned into dust and being bonded to their carapace.

The 15th legion is my favorite legion. I would like a well written story about primaris 15th legion based marines and how they stabilized the gene seed

i really like dark omen's soundtrack in the background and nice video like always.

A very extremely great video as always 40k Theories.

But didn't say Cawl in Dark Imperium that all of the geneseed-test were successful, even those of the lost and the traitor legions? That would mean it is possible to use the geneseed.

Thanks for the video

It would be cool if they captured Magnus for a moment to “harvest” him to make new thousand sons loyalist marines.

>What do you think? The moon is hollow and there were civilisations that existed before it arrived in Earth’s orbit.

Iirc, the Rubric was not caste on the entire Thousand Sons legion, but Ahriman named each legionary in his spell. Thus effecting the ones in stasis. But, this also means that members made after the rubric, or members who weren’t named, were not dusted.

I used to had a theory when Arhiman cast the Rubric it did work as intended but he made it too powerful as a result the Thousand Sons who were on Sortarius when the Rubric was cast those who did not had the psychic strength to resist the power of the Rubric they were turned to dust. However when the energies of the Rubric left the Planet of the Sorcerers and the Eye of Terror and radiate across the galaxy the Rubric would lose strength and dispates. By the time the weaken Rubric would have reached any Astartes with Thousand Son geneseed in the Material universe especially those on the other side of the galaxy from the Eye of Terror it would have affected them far less intensively and instead of turning them into dust it would stabilize the geneseed in the way Arhiman. Guess that is just debunked

Was talking with the guys in an old wargames club I went to many years back, and saying that the rubric was technically successful but not in the way Magnus had hoped.

This is just job security for the custodians of the magos biologis

This is one hell of a coincidence. I'm currently reading my first-ever 40K novel, Ashes of Prospero.

"I don't know what i am doing at all" - The Emperor of Mankind.

So that's why all the Grey Knights are psychers.

It seems to me that a new chapter *could* be founded using whatever Thousand Sons geneseed the Imperium still has in its possession. If the aspirants were restricted to only the most potent of psykers, then theoretically both the Flesh Change and the Rubric would be non-issues. The Rubric would still affect them, but due to their own inherent psychic potential, they would see their powers increased even further and be cured of the Flesh Change. At the very least, the number of aspirants transformed into Rubricae should be marginal if only the highest-grade psykers are used. The only inherent problem I can see cropping up is the question: to what extent, if any, would the Rubric twist those affected by it toward Chaos? To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a recorded instance of the effects of the Rubric on loyal Astartes. This could be an extremely dangerous issue. All that aside, while I’ve said I believe a chapter *could* be founded using Thousand Sons geneseed, I’m fairly dubious on whether the Imperium actually *would*. If they used the method I described, even if it successfully produced a chapter of perfectly loyal Astartes without any of the crippling geneseed flaws of the Thousand Sons and the power boost granted by the Rubric, it would still be horrifyingly expensive in terms of labor, human lives, materials, time, and a whole slew of other limited resources. And I can’t imagine the Ordo Hereticus, the Grey Knights, the Adeptus Mechanicus or the Administratum failing to notice the giant resource-devouring black hole that’s suddenly popped up. Nor can I imagine they’d allow it to go on once they’d learned of its true nature.

There are several accounts of early grey knight members having their legion gene seed organs removed and replaced with those that were used to create 'normal' grey knights.

@40kTheories "those battle brothers who displayed little to no psychic capability would have their bodies transformed into dust." What about the Rubric Sekhmet/terminators? Aren't they supposed to be the creme de la creme of psykers? I mean their product page even still says "Scarab Occult Terminators were once the finest psykers in the Thousand Sons Legion".

This is the battle music from dark omen and I love it

3:48 Desktop wallpaper worthy >:-)

God damnit well this completely screws the possibility of my home brew chapter. My way around it was a large number of initiatives succumb to the flesh change during their implantation process

I think there is only one way to find out.....Thousand Sun Primaris!

I guess the issue is what exactly the spell did, if it altered the universe such that no thousand sons could exist without the rubric taking effect or just the ones that existed at the time of the spell being put on a list. either way its a hell of a spell.

The thousand sons are such a tragedy

dont the blood ravens have an issue with their fresh recruits mutating in a similar way to the flesh change, im certain i read that somewhere

This video made me laugh :)

My favourite marines - real power. Magnus did nothing wrong *grins*

The effect of Rubric as decribed within that novell would be yet another canon conflict.

Would any of the newly created Astartes with a strong enough psychic ability be able to survive and get the power boast like few surviving Thousand Son's did? If so, the cost and rate of attrition would be incredible, but you could create one hell of a Space Marine chapter, or a primaris one....

If this is true then the gene-seed of the Blood Ravens would be linked to none other the Custodians of the Emperors gene-seed which could hint towards the chapters missing History and why they have a large number of Psyker's within the chapter.

It’s possible the rubric only was designed to effect certain individuals that it was assigned to, where those that were in the time lapsed verse had been destined to be placed under the effect of the spell, so as soon as it’s effect was able to occur, it then did.

The geneseed turns into alpharius.

Makes sense. The Warp is outside the confines of time. So it is possible to have spell simply linger in perpetuity. Unless someone manages to undo the spell. But I suspect a spell of this magnitude would need to be undone in the Warp itself. And with a power equal, or even far greater to, that of a demon prince. All of that power. Meaning I think it would destroy even Magnus to undo the Rubric.

Ah, more on the sons of Spiky Tits... | 1:30 - So treat them like the lost Primarchs? | 5:35 - There's also the consideration of the possibility of the Blood Ravens possible Primarch...as for the Sons of Antaeus, they're possibly loyalist Death Guard. | What do you do for an encore? What if the Emperor found Konrad Curze (fiction's 2nd most horrific version of Batman) as he climbed out of the hole that he made upon arriving on Nostramo?

"Flee in Tera"

Does anyone know what the music in the video is? Not the intro, but the main section.

My theory is that the Gray Knights' Gene-Seed is a modified version of the Thousand Sons created by the Emporer or by Malcador, some point before or after Magnus' "bargain".

Yeah you should find some sort of your for that I still think the Blood Ravens are still the ascendance of the Thousand Suns

so...radical idea, but from what i remmeber of the lore the "flesh change" was not a thing until after they started to use tutors tutors being small not quite deamons the magus "perfected" the binding of during the burning of prospero the tutors relieved them selves to tzeenchian horrors i suggest that binding a tutor is equivalent to possession, which results in mutations, like the possessed, mutilators or obliterators the next thought in this chain is that the rubric "removed that which could be tainted" which would mean the less powerful turning to dust as their bodies would be pray for the tutors when they wanted to move because they could not fight off the tutors influence cuple this with janus now we have a foundation for the grey knights, and their successor chapters, as they either just strait up don't bind deamons to them selves or first bind the drive out, they already "remove that which can be tainted" in the initiation trails, long before they become marines

Clearly by fixing the fleshchange, the imperium accidentally introduced new flaws in their place. For example: uncontrollable kleptomania

*"All is dust"*

The Geneseed could have been protected by the light of the Astronomican. The presence of Janus in the Sol System at the time of the casting could also have stabilized the Geneseed.

4:56 Should've gone for the head, Magnus...

dark omen music

Interesting.

Did I miss something? Wouldn't the most simple way be to use only psykers as aspirants and just see what happens? Maybe that's how the Blood Ravens started. After some time the seed adapted and stabilzed overall, which allows them to use a less special kind of human.

I would imagine that if the blood ravens are indeed sons of magnus, their own sorcerers attempted a similar ritual at the time (as they would use magic and witchcraft out of desperation), to attempt their own version of the rubic The difference though between this one and the one arhiman casted is that, unlike the first captain of the thousand sons who was interrupt at some point in time during the ritual by Magnus, The would be Blood Raven where not interrupted, and would be able to finish the ritual in it's entirety, which succeeded where arhiman did not, though it had different effects as well that is by the geneseed stabilizing to a greater extent and allowing battle brothers to manifest psychic powers at a more spontaneous rate then other marines, though their librarians would never be as powerful as those of the main legion At least, thay is what I hope for, as the idea of the blood ravens being loyalist thousand sons is what makes them one of my favorite chaptera

Didn't Yvraine fixed rubric marines for Ahriman in the recent lore?

Obviosly on of the effects on the gene-seed is a extendet preference for kleptomania.

Although to a lesser extent with the Emperor's Children since they were lured rather than forced, the four single god Chaos Marines are all really tragic. All the Traitor Marines are honestly, and their Primarchs. If they'd all received a bit of what they were missing, they'd have been okay instead of being damned in body and soul. 😔

I bet the spell cocked up because it was cast point blank, in the warp, no less.

was that passage of the novel the Rubric? It sounds almost like it's just the simple ravages of time turning them to dust. Ten Thousand Years suddenly crashing into you will do that. Especially because their armor didn't magically seal.

Assuming he Rubric is still active, should the Fleshchange not be effectively obsolete? In particular as those with high psychic potential would have the flaw cured, while those without would be dust.

Ahirman, the Thousand Son who spends over 10,000 years to undo his deed, to save his brother's and family he loves with all his heart.

What if the blood ravens are in fact thousand sons loyalists who don't suffer from the flesh change due to not being able to dream? Think about it, the flesh change could be the result of their subconscious minds utilizing their immense psychic powers to manifest their own hidden thoughts.

I think the whole rubric thing happening to heresy era thousand sons wasn't the rubric in effect but more so that remember they were outside the flow of time, when they returned time had to catch back up to them thus the rubric kicked in because time finally was hitting them.

you are forgetting about the Blood Ravens, who are rumored to be of the Thousand sons lineage.

I think the point is moot, cause Papa Smurf said no

7:37 when you take a step outside and catch Wuhan cough

Technically the rubric wouldn't effect any future chapters using 1000 son stock, only the flesh change would unless they used primaris genetic template which wipes out 99.9% mutations. The reason the change to rubrics occurred within those trapped within the 1000 son webway thing is because they belonged to the original legion during the time ahriman had cast the rubric in the first place. When he cast it, it was to effect all current members of the legion at once wherever they may be, because those were trapped within the webway thing meant it took a longer time to reach them but they were still effected once they returned to realspace

All is dust...

It will be hilarious if Cawl used their geneseed in Primaris marines and some of them just develop a trait of random spontaneous death by exploding into clouds of dust.

Hey, aren't the Grey Knights all powerful psykers? Makes you wonder where their geneseed came from...

You can't have a fleshchange if you don't have any flesh (taps side of head)

So what about primary marines?

What about the Blood Ravens? Long rumored to be successors of the Thousand Suns?

Didn't Cawl request creating new Primaris marines using traitor geneseed to Bobby G? This suggests he fixed the Rubric and flesh change issue as he did the Wulfen, Black Rage and Red Thirst

Listening to the passage, I really don't think those Thousand Sons got dusted because of the Rubric. One of them was powerful enough of a psyker to have a Force weapon, if it was the Rubric he would have gotten a power boost and be otherwise fine. The fact that he turned to dust with the rest of his men seems to suggest it wasn't the Rubric that did that, but being stuck in a time warp for 10,000 years and time caught up with them when they left it's boundary.