The END of CENTOS matters more than you think!

Рет қаралды 86,013

Күн бұрын

Learn more about TuxCare's Extended Lifecycle Support for CentOS 7 here: tuxcare.com/extended-lifecycl...
👏 SUPPORT THE CHANNEL:
Get access to:
- a Daily Linux News show
- a weekly patroncast for more personal thoughts
- polls on the next topics I cover,
- your name in the credits
KZfaq: / @thelinuxexp
Patreon: / thelinuxexperiment
Or, you can donate whatever you want:
paypal.me/thelinuxexp
Liberapay: liberapay.com/TheLinuxExperim...
👕 GET TLE MERCH
Support the channel AND get cool new gear: the-linux-experiment.creator-...
🎙️ LINUX AND OPEN SOURCE NEWS PODCAST:
Listen to the latest Linux and open source news, with more in depth coverage, and ad-free! podcast.thelinuxexp.com
🏆 FOLLOW ME ELSEWHERE:
Website: thelinuxexp.com
Mastodon: mastodon.social/web/@thelinuxEXP
Pixelfed: pixelfed.social/TLENick
PeerTube: tilvids.com/c/thelinuxexperim...
Discord: / discord
Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
00:52 CentOS
03:19 Why is CentOS still so popular?
05:20 How prevalent is CentOS right now
06:46 The problem with CentOS 7 going end of life
07:55 Stay on CentOS without patches
11:23 Move to another distro: a challenge
14:21 Extended Lifecycle support
18:57 Parting thoughts
19:37 Support the channel
#centos #centos #linux #linux
CentOS is short for Community Enterprise Operating System, and it started as one of the first Red hat Enterprise Linux clones: it was built from RHEL sources, and was 100% binary compatible.
The distro quickly became one of the most popular distros for servers, even overtaking the good old Debian in 2010, for a little while at least.
In 2014, Red Hat announced they would sponsor the CentOS project, probably seeing the advantage in fostering an ecosystem around their own enterprise offering, to convert organizations to RHEL when they needed more support, and to make sure developers had a solid platform to target.
That's when Red Hat gained ownership of all the trademarks, and they basically employed most major CentOS contributors.
Unfortunately, at the end of 2020, Red Hat announced that CentOS would be discontinued, at least in its current "RHEL clone" form, and would now be distributed as CentOS Stream, which isn't really the same kind of distribution: instead of being a rebuild of RHEL, which is what people mostly used CentOS for, it's basically RHEL's upstream, from which the next version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux will be built. Stream is also a rolling release, meaning that it's likely not suitable for a lot of people who relied on CentOS.
With that, CentOS 8 was quickly discontinued, in December 2021, leaving CentOS 7 as the only version that is still supported. And CentOS 7 will now be end of life at the end of June 2024, meaning that if you want a full rebuild of RHEL, and CentOS Stream doesn't work for you, you have to find another solution.
And this isn't really like any other enterprise distro going end of life: in most cases, for these, you have a direct upgrade path, like with Ubuntu LTS, or a new RHEL version. In CentOS's case, you don't: you either move to Stream, or you switch to another distro. Or well, there's another option, which we'll discuss in a minute.
CentOS 7 is still a very, very popular distribution on servers. First, a worrying statistic: out of all current CentOS users in early 2024, more than half use CentOS 6 or 8, meaning they're using end of life distros. CentOS 7 is 48.4% of current CentOS users.
Now, compared to other distributions, CentOS might not grab the lion's share for servers, but it's still a very prevalent operating system.
Now, the main reasons why organizations would stick to either unmaintained, end of life versions of CentOS, or to CentOS 7 as it is going end of life is very likely because there is no direct upgrade path: if you're on CentOS 8, you can't move to something else from CentOS. If you use CentOS 6, you could upgrade to 7, but migrating to a new distro that goes end of life in 2 months isn't necessarily worth it. And if you're on CentOS7, you can't upgrade to version 8, because it's also end of life.
Meaning that if your workflow or server depends on CentOS as a product, you're pretty much stuck, unless you want to move to another distributions that's also a RHEL clone, like AlmaLinux or Rocky Linux.

Пікірлер: 416

@TheLinuxEXP Ай бұрын

Learn more about TuxCare's Extended Lifecycle Support for CentOS 7 here: tuxcare.com/extended-lifecycle-support/centos-7-extended-support/?The%20Linux%20Experiment&

@akostadinov 23 күн бұрын

Wait. I thought that you defended the idea that it should be free. While this offering doesn't seem free. Of course it is totally fine. This is the power of open source. You can choose your preferred vendor. I think though you are that dramatic in your video to advertize this setvice and neglect the options users have with RHEL. Which is using free subscription up to a limited nimber of servers and then paying for a Red Hat subscription... That is in case CentOS stream doesn't work, which IMO could very well work for many use cases. Here's some info about migrating the RHEL kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iayaZK-j3pimiH0.htmlsi=DCYxJJqI-j5Mev7d

@CRCinAU Ай бұрын

I used to use CentOS for *everything*. I was a package maintainer for well over 15 years. Then CentOS got killed, and now, I don't use RHEL or "CentOS" anywhere. I don't package things anymore, and I don't recommend any RHEL / "CentOS" products to anyone or any projects. The proof of RedHat killing their ecosystem will take years to show, but MBAs will get their bonuses in the short term, and that's all anyone cares about in the business world these days.

@HalianTheProtogen 29 күн бұрын

Corporatism is killing Linux.

@svschwartz 28 күн бұрын

@@HalianTheProtogen it kills RHEL/CentOS! Linux is fine :)

@JimAllen-Persona 27 күн бұрын

@@svschwartz Give it time. You will wind up with a few supported distros that will cost the same to maintain as everything else. Look at Oracle with Java.

@robotron1236 27 күн бұрын

@@svschwartzactually, I think you’re right. I personally don’t think RHEL should be able to call itself Linux. It’s not even open source anymore.

@AbdoTawdy 26 күн бұрын

What do you recommend for now to use/learn

@My-noname Ай бұрын

Interview format is a nice addition. You should do that more often. Lots of really interesting people in our communities.

@TheLinuxEXP Ай бұрын

Yeah, I think it works well !

@isofruitfruit9357 Ай бұрын

@@TheLinuxEXP It also added a lot to the... profesional-ity of the video's vibes? Having the first-hand account of somebody that was affected by this just hits more effectively. Definitely worked well and was an excellent decision for the video! Never thought I'd find a video about how migrating from centos is a PITA this engaging.

@Batwam0 Ай бұрын

Interview of Mark Shuttleworth, Jia Tan or Greg Kroah-Hartman next please!

@fakecubed Ай бұрын

It's useful when there's a subject matter expert you can bring in to discuss a specific topic, but I like the ordinary stand-up news content you usually do.

@My-noname Ай бұрын

@@Batwam0 why not Linus on the Nvidia subject, adding a bit of old testament, brimstone Sodom and Gomorrah feeling.

@Leha__777 Ай бұрын

It's a good lesson learned. Do not trust any corporation.

@andrewsallee6044 Ай бұрын

More generally: Trust is not binary. It's not a case of trust or trust-not (to paraphrase Yoda), but how much you should trust. You have to factor in the past performance of the trustee and the importance of future behavior to the trustor. This is never an easy equation to navigate.

@Haskellerz Ай бұрын

@@andrewsallee6044 Don't trust IBM at least

@mica7191 27 күн бұрын

What distro would legacy 486 pcs be able to run?

@Leha__777 27 күн бұрын

@@mica7191 idk probably some old Slackware releases

@mica7191 27 күн бұрын

@@Leha__777 I've seen a plenty of legacy 486 pcs... even one in our local bus station... it was used to display arrival and departure times and relations

@joelanderson000 Ай бұрын

This caused a huge headache at my last job. We developed and deployed small self contained racks of equipment for RF testing and our software was deployed on CentOS. It was perfect for a small deployment and gave us flexibility to move to RHEL for customers who had enterprise software requirements. The early discontinuation of CentOS 8 also caused lots of extra headaches. Redhat really pulled a fast one by officially backing CentOS to push other options that used to be popular out before discontinuing it. Hopefully Alma and Rocky can help fill the void

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

Why don't you use Debian?

@acerIOstream Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213probably because Debian doesn't have a clear upgrade path for people who have enterprise software requirements.

@cat-.- Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 he clearly said he wanted to use rhel for customers who want it, and debian is not rhel

@joelanderson000 Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 Ive moved jobs so not sure what they do now, but pretty much for exactly the reasons discussed in the video. Older tech stack would be tough to migrate to a different branch of Linux because of so many dependencies. Plus customers periodically want to deploy RHEL so compatibility is helpful. Everything is possible but it costs money.

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

@@cat-.- The problem is that may not be an option anymore.

@mx338 Ай бұрын

I haven't really been disrupted by these changes, CentOS 8 was still there while Rocky wasn't ready. Ater Rocky Linux 8 was ready, it was easy to migrate CentOS 8 to Rocky 8.

@joshnabours9102 15 күн бұрын

Is rocky Linux made by rhel or is it something else entirely?

@psygreg 13 күн бұрын

@@joshnabours9102 something else, but meant to be fully compatible with CentOS stuff.

@joshnabours9102 12 күн бұрын

@@psygreg Oh, ok. Thank you. I will have to look into Rocky Linux sometime then.

@paladingeorge6098 Ай бұрын

I'm someone who has been indirectly burned by the death of CentOS...mostly because of a coworker who left me with a mess. He wouldn't put in the work to make sure we could replace CentOS and then bailed from the job, then I was forced to inherit his mess.

@mucholangs Ай бұрын

Rockylinux, and Almalinux are great replacements. I've been running both for 2yrs, just to test things out. No issues so far.

@rjhornsby Ай бұрын

@@mucholangsWe’ve migrated to Rocky from CentOS while deciding if it makes more sense to end this nonsense and leave the RHEL family for Debian. No technical issues with running the same workloads. IBM bought Red Hat a few years ago, which is why all this CentOS stuff. This morning brought more bad news. IBM looking hard at buying Hashicorp now. So another toolset - Terraform, Vault, Packer - we depend on is about to become a giant question mark of how screwed are we this time.

@mucholangs Ай бұрын

@@rjhornsby Do you perceive a nefarious agenda by IBM?

@rjhornsby Ай бұрын

@@mucholangs I don’t think IBM sees it as nefarious. I think what they did to CentOS has had a serious negative impact on our trust of anything they do. I’m deeply suspicious, don’t know what they might do to Terraform et al that will hurt us. Can’t count on IBM to not suddenly end a product and revoke the promised lifecycle with little warning.

@revoblam7975 Ай бұрын

@@mucholangsit's IBM, they were scummy since the PC ages

@Sakurina Ай бұрын

Says a lot about the past few years that I immediately assumed Red Hat had done something else I hadn’t heard about when I saw this video pop up, but luckily that’s not the case

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

You mean IBM. Red Hat is owned by IBM. No wonder these past 4 years have been a s**tshow for Enterprise Linux users

@MiningForPies Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213enterprise Linux users are able to get licences and developer licences for testing as long as they pay. If they don’t want to pay for the work of others - they’re not really an enterprise, they’re a leach.

@kuhluhOG Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 from what we know, this has nothing to do with IBM and was planned before Red Hat was bought besides, this decision was done really early after they were bought, you don't make huge changes to a company (especially of that size) that soon after you bought it (you just physically can't) and the president of IBM at the time was Red Hat's former CEO so, yeah, the end of CentOS would have happened with or without IBM

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

@@kuhluhOG Do you have any proof? (I know KZfaq loves to mark links as spam, but maybe you can tell me some reputable sources on that.) And the IBM really shows with the RHEL source code GPL violations.

@kuhluhOG Ай бұрын

@@cameronbosch1213 The GPL can very well be an IBM thing. It was quite a bit of time after RH was bought and RH's former CEO wasn't president for quite some time anymore. So, quite likely. About sources: the dates when the merger happened and who was president is publicly available for the decision about killing CentOS in favour of CentOS Stream: Red Hat employees (yes, plural) who work at CentOS, were making quite a few blogposts when it happened to justify it as the right thing to do; one if not multiple of them said that this decision was started about half to a year before it was publicly announced, which for a company of RH's size if it was leaning towards half a year

@mucholangs Ай бұрын

I was loyal to CENTOS forever. Rock solid. I went through the pain of migrating to other RHEL flavors. I bought two VPSes for testing... Rocky Linux 8 EOL: 2029 AlmaLinux 9 EOL: active support until 31 May 2027, and security support until 31 May 2032. I've been running both for about 2yrs now, and stable so far.

@646464mario Ай бұрын

Rocky is the direct successor to CentOS as far as I’m concerned. I use it for my home lab and all my RHEL studying.

@slaapliedje Ай бұрын

@@646464marioYou have Rocky or Alma. Though each have their own version of "ABI compatibility to RH." At this point we, as the overall community, need some standard created that is a minimum for ABI compatibility, even of it is some package, or set of packages that creates a stable place for things to run.

@FlexibleToast Ай бұрын

@@646464mario you could use RHEL for your RHEL studying... You can get 16 free licenses.

@philip3963 Ай бұрын

The company that I worked for migrated all of the solutions running on CentOS servers to Ubuntu servers. I don't know if this will work for RedHat like they wanted to, people will probably just go to Ubuntu, SUSE, Debian, etc. Most solutions support a range of Linux Distributions, just run a backup and then restore on the new server, most won't want to pay for RHEL.

@jozsefk9 Ай бұрын

ALT Linux got a server edition too

@wingflanagan Ай бұрын

True. But IBM (which owns Red Hat) doesn't care. They really don't. They'd _rather_ lose the smaller customers than convert them. Years ago, I knew an IBM executive socially. He made $500k a year. I asked him a question about them basically losing the consumer market and he just laughed - "If you spend less than a million dollars a year with us, it literally doesn't matter. That's our model. It costs us more to support small customers than it's worth." (Or words to that effect.) In other words, they don't like dealing with larger numbers of customers that don't spend much with them. They have to maintain more infrastructure without increasing per-customer margin. The numbers don't work out nearly as well, since big customers can afford to pay a lot more, which keeps profits nice and fat. Their gross income doesn't suffer, either. Of course, that was just one exec talking about his particular business unit, but IBM certainly behaves as though that mindset is company-wide.

@marcusjohansson668 Ай бұрын

And by going Debian you leave most corporate greed (that is the REASON this happens in the first place) too. I sincerely hope 99% of all those that has to move, moves to something away from IBM:s greedy fingers. They won't, but I can HOPE...

@michaelb8575 Ай бұрын

RH really shit the bed with this one. I get what they wanted to do here, but they could have chosen a far more sensible way, one that does not piss off potential customer base & also make them look unreliable.

@petersilva037 Ай бұрын

yeah ubuntu is really THE safe choice: they are disciplined by knowing that if they get greedy, people will switch to Debian. Having Debian as a backstop is a huge reassurance. for my personal stuff, I go back and forth between them.

@d00dEEE Ай бұрын

I moved to Alma as soon as it was released and have been a happy camper ever since.

@Crackalacking_Z Ай бұрын

This was really nice, I think more interviews would be nice content.

@finkelmana Ай бұрын

I work for one of the US's largest web hosting companies. You would not believe the number or people still running CentOS 6.10. EOL for CentOS 7 isnt looking any better. People will just continue to run it. We send out email notifications explaining why they should upgrade. The software they use on the servers tells them to upgrade. However, they just ignore it. These are not tech savvy people and either they dont know what risks and responsibilities they have or they choose to ignore it until something bad happens. The uninformed will always choose convenience over security.

@patrickprucha5522 Ай бұрын

Personally, since Red Hat notified that it was discontinuing CentOS, companies/individuals should have been planning the conversion to an alternative, however expensive, time consuming it is. But management should be fully aware so they can assign the resources to resolve the issue.

@646464mario Ай бұрын

Yeah and I’m not defending RH completely here, but people knew CentOS 7 was ending life this year. As for the premature death of CentOS 8… yeah can’t defend them much there

@sabishiihito Ай бұрын

You give management too much credit.

@patrickprucha5522 Ай бұрын

No. I just said what should have taken place. If they didn't do anything, they should complain.

@Anonymous______________ Ай бұрын

Sounds like a lot cope.

@rklrkl64 Ай бұрын

I'm surprised that AlmaLinux's ELevate tool wasn't mentioned - it allows you to warm upgrade between CentOS 7 and any of AlmaLinux 8, Rocky Linux 8, EuroLinux 8 or even CentOS Stream 8. I've used it successfully on several CentOS 7 servers, but there will obviously be downtime (including a couple of reboots) - you may be able to avoid disruption if you have a cluster and upgrade one node at a time. It was always annoying that RHEL has had warm upgrades via the Leapp tool for quite a long time, but CentOS never did until ELevate turned up (which also uses Leapp, but with a customised config).

@goodtoshi Ай бұрын

Nothing surprising about it, as the whole video was basically an ad for TuxCare

@arnox4554 8 күн бұрын

Yeah, I tried that, and it bugged out with some obscure error that's not covered in the documentation at all. And mind you, while my install is six years old admittedly, I do NOT have a complex server setup whatsoever. Now I'm going to be forced to do an OS reinstall. I was originally going to go for AlmaLinux, but after that experience with ELevate, and other comments I've read saying that RHEL9 in general is more unstable than past RHEL versions, I think I'm just going to go with Debian 12 and call it a day. Fuck this RHEL train, man. I'm getting off.

@rocksquared Ай бұрын

The true CentOS heart still beats... It's just called Rocky Linux now.

@solenoids3 Ай бұрын

Nah, it's AlmaLinux. Rocky Linux has the old leadership, but Alma is where all of the Fedora devs and upstream contributors are.

@FlexibleToast Ай бұрын

@@solenoids3 yes, Alma are the ones doing it correctly. Rocky is just trying to steal Red Hat's homework, Alma is trying to work with Red Hat. Alma is actually giving back to the community by fostering SIGs like the just announced Alma HPC AI SIG.

@paulie-g Ай бұрын

@@FlexibleToast You can't "steal" open source code, which is what RHEL is. RedHat does useful cherrypicking/backporting and testing work and are entitled to ask for money for that work, but they patch open-source, mostly GPL projects (eg the kernel). GPL is designed specifically to force them to contribute that work back to the community, so no, publishing a rebuild users can use without entangling themselves with RedHat if they do not see enough value in doing so is not "stealing", homework or otherwise. The value of said rebuild is precisely in not deviating or doing new things, its purpose is to be able to run applications certified for RHEL without compatibility concerns.

@adyss1543 Ай бұрын

I work at a small company that until recently still used CentOS 6 on over 170 deployed servers. It took us 4 years to Have a migration script and to setup the same stack on Debian 11. Add one more year to migrate all of those machines. I am also one of the only linux "experts" at my company and have to teach my colleagues how to actually use debian. CentOS 6 was still SystemV based so they had to learn using systemd and so on. Since non of my colleagues use linux outside of work.. centos was all they knew

@davianthule2035 Ай бұрын

Luckily, systemd isnt hard, but then again, I literally have never known a Linux system without it (I was 14/15 when systemd became the standard for most distros)

@AriManPad8gi 27 күн бұрын

stayed away from RHEL, CentOS. had a bad feeling that it wouldn't last. glad to have listened to the intuition

@JasonTaylor-po5xc Ай бұрын

When CentOS 8 EOL was announced, I know of several clients that decided to move to Ubuntu instead. It was a big move but worth it to them because they valued a stable Linux release.

@Beryesa. Ай бұрын

Not enough $$.cents for CentOS 😔

@Rain-King Ай бұрын

Wonderful interview. This channel honestly offers so much value to non-technical users like myself wanting to have a sense of the Linux and open-source landscape.

@davey820051 Ай бұрын

I'm just an ordinary desktop user and have no experience with enterprise-level deployments, even as an end user, but I find topics like this very interesting. I recommend the Enterprise Linux Security podcast to anyone interested in the broader Linux world.

@JoshColletta Ай бұрын

Superb information!

@RoyBirk Ай бұрын

Wouldn't another option be to purchase RHEL? Is it so expensive that this is not realistic for most companies?

@gangrif Ай бұрын

RHEL is an option, the video completely avoids the topic. There are in fact tools that will convert your centos systems to RHEL, which the video also completely ignores. Yes there's a cost for production RHEL, but if you're running your business on this thing.... well, maybe thats a good conversation to have. This video is more of a sales pitch for tuxcare than it is a real discussion about all of your options.

@DavidJao Ай бұрын

Hobbyist users with under 16 machines can migrate to RHEL completely for free. The migration tools that Redhat provides are excellent. Even so, there are pain points, and having done this migration many times, I know what those are. The biggest issue is NetworkManager, which I freely admit is better than the old networking scripts, but in most cases (especially for RHEL 9) requires wholesale conversion of your existing network configurations. Then there's a bunch of little things like incompatibility between IPsec implementations and the deprecation of SHA1, which causes DNSSEC to fail in unexpected ways. Of course these issues are not unique to RHEL, and they would present themselves if you were migrating to any of the RHEL clones as well.

@RoyBirk Ай бұрын

@@gangrif That seems like a fair assessment. Thank you.

@hatyyy Ай бұрын

rhel went closed soure, so theres not really a point in using it anymore

@Ihwaz13 Ай бұрын

That is only an option for companies, where it becomes a problem, is with developers. If you want to develop a tool for RHEL you would run it on CentOS to validate it works as intended, with CentOS Stream being upstream from RHEL this no longer works. Also smaller companies might not be able to afford RHEL, at least at the beginning, so they would use CentOS instead and maybe migrate to RHEL when it became financially feasible. No they likely will go to Ubuntu or Debian instead. So it seems Red Hat also screwed themselves.

@CFWhitman Ай бұрын

When the company I work for was going to a new Web server several years back, I was left to decide which distribution, and I narrowed it down to Debian or CentOS. I certainly am glad I chose Debian.

@resultingrun5928 Ай бұрын

Rocky Linux began from the announcement of the end of CentOS. As you can read in the Wikipedia it was begun by Gregory Kurtzer, who had originally started CentOS too. I don’t know if he started CIQ based on just Rocky as their most popular product, but he seems really dedicated to filling the hole that CentOS left. I first found about him when he was asking students if they were running Rocky on their systems. He was super excited to hear we were using Rocky. Snagged a picture a with him. Based on how CIQ is going it seems to be very dedicated to open source and especially in maintaining Rocky Linux, like I imagine CentOS or RHEL was supported by Red Hat back in the day (I’m young and wasn’t alive to see that for myself). Either way, nothing is permanent. In fact, they say only death is certain, so while I would like to expect good Rocky support for maybe the next 12 years, I know eventually it will meet its end too.

@elzabethtatcher9570 Ай бұрын

So Redhat absorbed centos, and then a few years later killed it? That is a dick move. If you don't want to maintain it, just release it's trademark to developers.

@1369usmc Ай бұрын

Never was about maintaining the distro.... It was about eliminating the competition. Redhat has announced that there will be no downstream equivalents for RHEL. This affects Rocky and Alma... who have both responded... see their websites for details.

@kuhluhOG Ай бұрын

You know, if I would be a threat actor, I would start trying to find security problems in popular distros 1-2 years BEFORE it reaches EOL. And when I find one, I would keep it a secret until it is EOL. Why? Because not all users will migrate and at that point I know that the systems which didn't WILL NOT be patched (or at least receives them). So, yeah, I kinda expect attacks on the servers to rise quite a bit after the EOL date.

@Bert-og9rk Ай бұрын

Thanks for your work Nick.

@balorvalorbus Ай бұрын

Didn't hear why this matters more than I think.

@fabriciochamorro2985 Ай бұрын

Congratulations, great interview and great topic! I missed these kind of videos from your channel. I'm still curious of how rocky, alma, suse and oracle Linux resolved the "IBM redhat source code" issue.

@darkknightz007E Ай бұрын

Thanks for this fantastic interview.

@BrandonCallifornia Ай бұрын

Thank you for this video!!! It saved me a ton on time doing research and it helped reduce my time for coming up with a go plan! Extending support under current os, and then migrating everything to a different OS with LTS and or extended support from the sponsor of this video ❤🎉🎉🎉🎉 still have to figure out the new OS though 😅

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

Honestly, after IBM bought Red Hat and discontinued CentOS, I was warning people what was going on and would eventually happen, but I wasn't taken seriously. Then with IBM violating the GPL with RHEL, I turned out to be completely right. Heck, even Oracle, that Oracle, sort of became the good guy? That wasn't on my bingo card!

@alicethegrinsecatz6011 Ай бұрын

Sorry but our statement is misleading fake news. Red Hat doesn't harm the GPL. According to the GPL, the publishers must grant the user access to the source code. RHEL is only available for subscribers and subscribers have access to the source code. So, Red Hat follows the rules of the GPL. They may harm the spirit of the GNU Project and Linux but not the license or do you see any lawsuit against them? Do you really think that if they harm the license, the Linux Foundation and the GNU Project would do nothing? A huge amount of the development of Linux and especially of Linux distros are made by companies that have a commercial interest in pushing the development of GNU/Linux. Developers are still humans and humans need food and food is bound to resources that are distributed by a system of money. As long as we have this system, somebody needs to spend capital on our projects. Otherwise, GNU/Linux dies. That also applies to Red Hat too. If everyone can fork their project and use all their work without paying, they can't afford the development and sooner or later, the project will die or be taken by another company that provides the same service with similar methods. At least they grant us a free and open-source upstream version with ConetOS as well as so much support for Fedora and GNU/Linux in general. Even after these changes - and I wanna emphasize how much I don't like it and how much I wish Red Hat would find and choose another path. -, I still think you're overreacting a little bit. This isn't a defense of Red Hat btw. Some practice in their subscriptions model harmed GPL but Red Hat took the criticism seriously and responded with the necessary changes to align their conditions to the GPL. This is suspicious behavior but still not enough evidence to jinx it yet.

@synen Ай бұрын

It's a trend, Canonical not far behind.

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

@@synen Really? You'd think they'd back off given the other issues they've had, like with aggressively pushing snaps over flatpaks. I hope not!

@rishirajsaikia1323 Ай бұрын

Providing source code only when the software is purchased is still open source and does not violate GPL. Richard Stallman allows that for GPL.

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

@rishirajsaikia1323 You are correct on that regard. That is allowed. That's not the problem. The problem is them trying to prevent redistribution of RHEL source code despite not being allowed to do that under the GPL.

@AyaWetts Ай бұрын

Never heard the option... use RHEL ... never brought up as an option?

@nobodynever7884 Ай бұрын

Can you go back to your IBM job? Seriously? With all the money they have they are sending little minions to spam the comments?

@queenannsrevenge100 28 күн бұрын

@@nobodynever7884…and fans, who are still using CentOS Stream 9 and RHEL and pretty happy with the service and products. I’m also a fan of the Alma Linux maintainers, as well as other alternatives like SUSE (or Ubuntu and Debian if ufw and apt are your thing) - it’s still a world of choice out there.

@13thravenpurple94 Ай бұрын

Excellent video 👍 Thank you 💜

@lachlanwilger5044 Ай бұрын

CentOS 7 is what is ran on the Office Depot cash registers.

@UltraZelda64 Ай бұрын

I can't say I feel bad for those still running CentOS still in 2024, when they were warned at least three or four years ago at this point. They had all this time to do something, and if they absolutely *must* stick with a rebuild Rocky and Alma Linux have both been there from the start. There's also Oracle and EuroLinux and probably others. And if familiarity and compatibility are not major priorities, distros like Debian, Ubuntu LTS, openSUSE and others have been there as options for decades. There's no point in freaking out now, there have been countless chances and ways to jump ship for years now. Anyone who hasn't chose to do so, well, sucks to be them, but they're getting what they deserve for not heeding the warning and for trusting a corporation blindly.

@TetrisMaster512 Ай бұрын

I would imagine that the sysadmins stuck with CentOS currently are being screwed over by higher-ups who kick the can down the road so that not spending money on migration looks good on quarterly/yearly reports, but that's entirely speculation on my part. Maybe someone with actual enterprise sysadmin experience could say whether this is far from the truth or not. I'm just used to corporations penny-pinching where it just doesn't make any sense. For individuals who just have a CentOS server or two though, pretty much agree with you. So much time has passed that not having a migration plan at this point just seems like negligence.

@savagepro9060 Ай бұрын

"CENTOS Stream" is a nice place for a penguin to drown!

@dragonek_gnu_linux_pl Ай бұрын

not fedora?

@thescrewfly Ай бұрын

@@dragonek_gnu_linux_pl A penguin wearing a fedora? The hipster penguin is an endangered species for sure. Trying to keep your hat dry makes swimming perilous.

@dragonek_gnu_linux_pl Ай бұрын

@@thescrewfly xD

@northpoint1039 Ай бұрын

Plan accordingly ahead of time. This is why my heavily configured stuff runs in VM's . I just have a basic install of CENTOS7 on clients systems that runs the network, firewall, DHCP, DNS. We have also had a lot of time to figure out a game plan. So, I will be moving my client servers over to Debian and then migrate the VMs over.

@slaapliedje Ай бұрын

What it comes down to is that unless you have a bunch of compliance reasons, you should absolutely be running something that is perpetually free, like Debian, where no single company owns it, you can get extended life support for it, and there is proper LTS support. Then just make sure your configuration management is distribution agnostic. If you have that last part, you can move to whichever distro you want.

@javabeanz8549 Ай бұрын

Nick, I thought it was pretty cool that the first ad before the video was Tux Care ;0)

@1e51161 Ай бұрын

I have transition my CentOS 7 machines to SUSE Liberty ( seamless integration + security updates and everything is working as before). Rocky was my second options, but I'm too deep into the SUSE stack with rke2 and Rancher :D

@joeforan1972 Ай бұрын

I’ve done a fairly large number of Rocky and Alma migrations and because of their similarity as RHEL-binary-compatible the transition has been extremely smooth. Not a single box broken. I haven’t done embedded systems like medical imaging or anything, so don’t want to speak for that case AT ALL , but I feel that for run “-of-the-mill servers either Alma (community) or Rocky (for profit org) transitions are the way.

@LoesserOf2Evils Ай бұрын

Is one of the lessons to devise a migration plan as soon as the new distro is installed and running? "Be prepared," to quote a well-known phrase.

@JakobKenda Ай бұрын

Slovenia's whole supercomputer grid moved from CentOS to AlmaLinux 2 years ago already. Nobody running anything serious is waiting until now

@Thanatos2996 16 күн бұрын

I’m not surprised there are so many unsupported boxes out there. Remember that we’re talking about enterprise Linux here, Centos 6 is downright bleeding edge compared to some of the software I’ve seen handling specific, niche applications in enterprise settings. Centos 6 will still be used for many years to come, largely because it was on Linux 2.6, and there is a lot of hardware out there that lacks drivers for Linux 3 and beyond.

@hanes2 Ай бұрын

Moved to Rocky, been very happy since. Hope they will stick around next decade too.

@savagepro9060 Ай бұрын

Sent OS! Missed memo

@coolhandle572 Ай бұрын

More like sent os

@acerIOstream Ай бұрын

gotem

@balsalmalberto8086 Ай бұрын

the rotting corpse of scent os

@replikvltyoutube3727 Ай бұрын

I think Canonical won our company with this. We will consider migration to ubuntu rather than staying on centos or RHEL. WIll be a lot of initial time investment for hopefully faster and less stressful updates later donw the road. All the development stuff with rhel targets will use Stream 9, at least for now.

@ajoian1 26 күн бұрын

@TheLinuxEXP where can we get the same statistics you referenced in your video ?

@BUDA20 Ай бұрын

I use CentOS back in the day in some servers while working in IT for the internal network and services, from email to Apache and tomcat, samba, LDAP, even low level stuff like dns, firewalls, etc (although I use Debian every time I was able)

@drescherjm Ай бұрын

I just moved to Rocky8 at work. Although the Centos pulling the upstream repositories caused me a scare I am glad that was addressed quickly. Now my task is to begin migrating from Rocky8 to Rocky9..

@be1tube Ай бұрын

You're right about there not being time for a large org. My job moved from C7 to Alma 8, and despite planning it out and starting the migration in November 2023, at least 10% won't be ready by June 30, 2024 and we need to file for regulatory exceptions. (Fortunately, my team's products migrated fine.😌)

@greenhorngameplays5743 Ай бұрын

And because of this enterprise crap, I moved everything to freebsd for years and never turned back. Best thing that I did so far.

@thatzaliasguy Ай бұрын

Exactly this. fBSD for work and secure personal use; Linux for gaming. F* everything else.

@samarthnagar6988 Ай бұрын

Huh

@samarthnagar6988 Ай бұрын

Like how people look at windows you look at linux and this fbsd is what linux is to windows users

@ShinigamiDa Ай бұрын

Whats wrong with regular distros for the desktop use? Fedora, opensuse, debian, linux mint, etc.

@greenhorngameplays5743 Ай бұрын

@@ShinigamiDa I thought the topic was about servers? Still, I'm using freebsd 14 in my both home servers and desktop as well.

@fakecubed Ай бұрын

Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux exist. All is well. Take your pick.

@slaapliedje Ай бұрын

I do wish Debian as a project could get the funding for getting FIPS certification. Unfortunately it costs a lot, but fortunately Alma 9 has such a thing now. But that is a big one for enterprises to be able to use it (at least in the USA)

@laneromel5667 Ай бұрын

I switched to Oracle Linux, just as stable, do not have to deal with IBM, a win win.

@jb888888888 Ай бұрын

I tried out CentOS a few years ago. I liked the idea of a rolling release OS I didn't have to replace every 5 years like the Ubuntu-based distros I'm used to. I was driven away because there were certain programs I wanted to use which were blocked. There may have been a workaround but I didn't feel like deep diving into finding out. Also wasn't thrilled with the "rolling release" being a download-and-reinstall of basically the whole system once a week. That's how It seemed to me anyway.

@calmeilles Ай бұрын

My last two gigs used CentOS extensively and both worked with a minimum effort / minimum cost ethos. They're stuck with manglement and beancounters refusing to understand why they have to pay anything to "fix" something that is "not broken." And they were already on CentOS to avoid the RHEL subscription costs. Eventually it'll be expensive or difficult or, most likely, both.

@guss77 Ай бұрын

No, the reason people do not upgrade CentOS 6 or migrate away from 8 or 7 is the same reason people still run Centos 6.3 or 6.8 and not 6.10 - they never update their servers! These are the system admins that install the server once and never update. This is not the same use case as servers that get updated from time to time (or a sane use case)

@paultapping9510 Ай бұрын

what a very Google move. - Buy a competitor - shut it down after a few years - profit!

@nobodynever7884 Ай бұрын

Except IBM doesn't know how to "profit"

@TheEvertw Ай бұрын

How long will it be before someone creates a layer that unifies the different distros out there? Perhaps I should make it myself. But I can't decide how to call it. Perhaps something like FatPack? Or perhaps Shnaps?

@chaosfenix Ай бұрын

So it is a big deal but I don't see it as a problem. A previous employer of mine used CentOS on our appliances that we sold for up to 500k not including licenses or support and they never contributed to the open source community. The Community enterprise OS only works if people actually participate in that community. I am not saying that Red Hat is clean here and there are definitely better ways they could have done it but I don't feel bad for billion dollar companies that have been leeching off open source developers. If an enterprise company is using this code they should ideally be participating in the community and making the whole open source ecosystem better or they should be paying for a support contract which is what RHEL allows them to do. This is where I disagree with Red Hat is that they don't make that distinction and just require everyone to pay up regardless. It sucks for companies who have gotten used to just leeching off open source developers for free but I don't see a problem with making sure developers can get paid.

@sergeykish Ай бұрын

I have not encountered CentOS in almost two decades of web development. Deployment targets are Ubuntu, Debian, Alpine.

@646464mario Ай бұрын

That’s quite surprising then. I only ever see CentOS and Ubuntu. For the bigger companies, RHEL and yes, for bigger companies that actually care about their business, I do recommend proper RHEL

@Winnetou17 Ай бұрын

I'm surprised by that too. About a decade ago, many servers, I think from Godaddy, Amazon EC2 too I think, and some others that I don't remember anymore, had CentOS. It was quite annoying when they had PHP 5.2 and because CentOS is CentOS, you couldn't upgrade to PHP 5.3 or 5.4

@calmeilles Ай бұрын

I've often seen RHEL in production for the support and CentOS in development for zero cost compatibility. CentOS in prod much less often, but not unknown.

@leeblack2103 26 күн бұрын

I think companies will move to contain eyes applications, moving forward, to prevent this from happening again

@thrashwerk Ай бұрын

Any org that's got their stuff together has already moved to a different distro. Sadly orgs that run things properly are few and far between.

@supercompooper Ай бұрын

I'm so glad that I never used any Red hat or Centos. Somehow I just knew that I would all end in tears.

@alphaomega154 Ай бұрын

i thought there is SUSE for enterprise? now that makes me wonder about SUSE for personal use.

@bluephreakr Ай бұрын

The press on this is making the EoL sound worse than it really is - in the future, _if not already_ someone will have made a CentOS to Rocky or CentOS to Alma migration tool that hijacks the system and converts it to be something else. Such a script (before its Russian developer went AWOL) existed for Arch _derivative_ users giving them the option to migrate onto _proper_ Arch, which at the time I believe only covered Manjaro and EndeavourOS, which worked while it was still maintained. The alternative, if upgrading from CentOS to Rocky or Alma isn't simple as a source change would be to install Bedrock Linux via their hijacker, then _gently_ migrate over by swapping out components from the main CentOS strata to a Rocky Linux or AlmaLinux strata.

@MinaSchloch Ай бұрын

Yes, it means you can have a workstation OS that is NOT 5 years in lifespan, which is pretty horrible for desktop usage. And it also means that companies will need to start paying for software they use

@raughboy188 Ай бұрын

CentOS 8 is last true CentOS version but it will live on in a manner of speaking through Almalinux. Almalinux is developed by one of original developers of CentOS. Another option is Rocky linux. They aren't like CentOS but they are 1:1 compatible with rhel software. If you wanna have something maintained as i mentioned you have almalinux which works same way as CentOS and you have Rocky Linux which is similar to CentOS but doesn't necesarily work in same way.

@kirle5455 Ай бұрын

it is actually the other way around: Alma is now not bug compatible, while Rocky is still is. Alma is community driven, but company baked which is better than Rocky in this regard imho

@NickWizz Ай бұрын

I wonder what BMD will do with Davinci Resolve?

@DryPaperHammerBro Ай бұрын

Great video, altho Sponsorblock told me it's sponsored. Thanks for the info! I use arch btw Edit: Where's the Stormtrooper art from?

@jacquelineliu2641 Ай бұрын

Nick explained the rationale since 0:24, and at 0:49 he literally said "TuxCare is the sponsor of this entire video". If you need SponsorBlock to tell you something that is literally stated in the video, how about you just don't watch any videos? lol.

@nobodynever7884 Ай бұрын

He told you in the beginning. This entire video is sponsored.

@sub-harmonik Ай бұрын

isn't fedora already 'red hat upstream'? edit: just read the announcement, I guess it's 'between' fedora and rhel?

@FlexibleToast Ай бұрын

Yes, exactly. It is the in between step that gets updated a bit more frequently than RHEL, but much less frequently than Fedora. CentOS Stream also does not really have a concept of a minor version, there isn't a CentOS Stream 9.2, just a CentOS Stream 9. CentOS Stream maintains ABI (application binary interface) compatibility with RHEL. Really the vast majority of this "news" is FUD.

@mrpiggy105 Ай бұрын

You'd think more servers would have switched to something else, but it probably takes a lot of time and effort to move to a completely different distro. But hey, now we can get a glimpse of Nick's 'embarrassing' cable management under his desk (during the interview)

@shanent5793 Ай бұрын

Is that really the logo? It's similar to the one used by Greendale Community College

@TankEnMate Ай бұрын

Having IaC like terraform and config management like chef / puppet / marionette means this is far less of an issue. Even more so if you use docker / swarm / kubernetes etc.

@cap_eath Ай бұрын

IDK, something about Red Hat always rubbed me the wrong way. I started Linux on Debian for all the wrong reasons, but when I would try Fedora or other Red ,Hat based systems, it just wasn't as comfortable to my gut. When RHEL bought CentOS marketing assets, I would have begun making plans to move. And it would appear that Red Hat acted as I would suspect they would. Purchase and extinguish

@davidbentham9586 Ай бұрын

I'm the unfortunate person doing the migration of company server's from Centos 7 to Rocky linux 8 - task made easier with ansible and leapp.Future plan is use a containers and not care about the host os.

@BogdanSerban Ай бұрын

Our linux servers still run CentOS 5 (in an isolated network), so we're good 😂

@Cute_Maxi Ай бұрын

I mean what did you think was gonna happen with a distro that has the 8 pointed Chaos star for a logo??

@hiru92 Ай бұрын

what is the difference enterprise linux and normal linux distro

@Balennnnnn Ай бұрын

I have no idea all I know is that some programs only work on enterprise Linux

@northpoint1039 Ай бұрын

Enterprise systems have paid support.

@cameronbosch1213 Ай бұрын

I think many enterprise distros can have you pay for support and integration, like IBM / Red Hat, Canonical, and Suse (not OpenSUSE, Suse). Unfortunately, all of them only offer GNOME, which is a huge miss for workstations imo.

@grxgghxrpxr Ай бұрын

The support offered by the company providing it

@temari2860 Ай бұрын

If you're a big company, you can't afford to just have no direct support and guarantees from developers of the system you're using. They need someone to be responsible and ready to provide them any support needed, so they pay money to get that. As a normal user that's not needed or relevant

@docteurdoome8205 Ай бұрын

Heh, CentOS logo is the logo for chaos. Living up to their namesake it seems.

@piked86 Ай бұрын

Embrace, extend, extinguish. IBM using the Microsoft plan

@obake6290 Ай бұрын

In terms of PR and community relations for Red Hat? Definitely matters for that but it's been long enough that I think the fallout has already run its course. So in practical terms, doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. There's Rocky as an exact replacement, or by all appearances Alma as an improved replacement. I've even heard good things about Oracle Linux, despite Oracle being involved. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't at least one of those distros support in-place conversions from CentOS? Since they're basically the same thing, it would be similar to an in-place upgrade. So no, I think it barely matters at all. Even for big enterprises this should only be a problem for companies with incompetent administrators, or incompetent executives interfering with their admins. Edit: Almost forgot to mention this, but frankly this felt almost like an advertisement for Tuxcare more than anything else. 20 minute sponsored video selling a service by talking about a non-issue like it's a major catastrophe.

@picklerism Ай бұрын

When all of my Centos 8 production servers went end of life pretty much overnight, that was the last straw. What a fantastic way to alienate your users. Fat VM's are pretty much dead now anyway. Kubernetes/Docker Swarm is much easier to maintain (When running on non-Centos/Redhat hosts).

@yuu-kun3461 Ай бұрын

Interesting

@akostadinov 24 күн бұрын

Would be good if you actually inform yourself what exactly is CentOS stream. It is supposed to be ABI compatible with the respective RHEL version. It is just slightly ahead. So it is perfectly usable for any use cases. There is stream fir 7, 8 and 9, not discontinued. If you test your updates in a staging environment before deploying, you should be very safe. Also IIRC you can use 6 or 8 servers official RHEL for free for any purposes. I also want everything to be free but at some point commercial users have to give back for the project to survive. Just my take on it.

@rootbeer666 Ай бұрын

8 has conversion scripts to turn it into Rocky or Alma.

@nico5 Ай бұрын

I’m not sure if a million dollar for profit medical machine using free CentOS, rather than paid RHEL is the most heart warming example for using free (as in beer) software.

@Anonymous______________ Ай бұрын

This is a facile argument. As there are countless forward facing SCADA and PCI complaint systems running Windows NT, Fedora Core, AIX or VMS.

@downix Ай бұрын

I am in the middle of retiring a dozen CentOS machines, and man this is a headache...

@jean-francoistasse7788 Ай бұрын

What I do not understand is why not switch from Centos to RHLE? If you are using a server distro that is based on Red Hat, why not just use it?

@NatesRandomVideo Ай бұрын

Ancient news. Migrated away from Red Hat long ago.

@TekExplorer 14 күн бұрын

Psa: rocky linux js built by the og centos founder!

@MnemonicCarrier Ай бұрын

Major version upgrades are annoying anyway. Just roll with rolling releases 😉

@PoliStrategtion Ай бұрын

Well, every decision comes with a price.

@Fractal_32 Ай бұрын

Phoronix broke the news that Redhat is giving 4 more years of RHEL 7 support!

@davidb636 Ай бұрын

But couldn't CentOS 7 users migrate to RHEL? And what about upgrading to AlmaLinux 8? Should also be possible... EOL in case of CentOS does not necessarily mean you need to install another distro, just migrate the running OS which is binary-compatible to the other enterprise linuxes