that ties it up real nicely.

Why you so smart!?! That is a great thought

The only thing that gets up my butt about them is the fact that they're descended from *Hadrosaurs*. The LEAST LIKELY species to evolve intelligence.

Yup, that is why Chakotay is an idiot. He could have proved that the 'Distant Origin' theory was wrong and Voth doctrine (which probably was written the way it was for a reason, which the epo. never explores) was mostly right correct. Since Sol was probably close to the Voth homeworld during the Cretaceous and so not distant be incredibly close. Meaning Voth controlled their territory for millions and were likely a powerful neutral kingdom in Delta Quadrant for millions of years. There were lots of minor cataclysms during the Cretaceous that caused mini mass extinctions and could have easily pushed the primordial Voth to leave Earth in great colonization fleets and not some rag tag refugee fleet as Matriarch feared. Especially since such an event would have permanent effects on Voth cultural, if not on their mythologies or religions. But the opposite seems to be the case, with their Doctrine suggesting their star nation survived some great event that precipitated the necessity to create a set of laws to govern their society. But seem to emphasis not interacting with the warm bloods (though the Voth like dino's could be meso-therms and not cold blooded) and that all had rights even the erratic warm bloods. In fact Voth doctrine seems very similar to how Vulcan society could have gone rather than it did. But would have made the epo. very short and given everyone a happy ending.

Everything in the Star Trek universe is lacking some trait that we’ve made up for, or will. Hell even vger wasn’t even capable of understanding person to person communication, while presumably encountering billions over time

Raises questions about how long a civilization like the Federation can exist

On Earth, there are plenty civilization that went extinct pretty much by themselves. Heck, there used to be many species of Sentient hominid on Earth, yet only one survived. Why would it be different in space?

@@KZfaq_is_Trash well futurists believe in a scale where civilizations reach a certain point and essentially there is no turning back. I have never bought into it but trek’s optimism would suggest it would have a less fatalistic view of history.

The more you poke around in the edges of the lore, like the occasional bizarre xenoarchaeological digs, the anomalous after-action reports, and situations where science seems to just stop working, the more the Star Trek universe starts seeming like it would fit in with the Cthulhu Mythos.

Basically that. Furthermore of long last civilization. There is a reason why machine gods watch them carefully.

Sort of like the Mass Effect backstory, without all the weird sentient destroying stuff, and almost like our history where civilization pop-up, exist, and decline/vanish, only to have other civs build on top of their remnants.

On the other hand, maybe there has been a continuous churn of civilizations of comparable power to the UFP since ancient times and very, very few of them have ever survived into godhood.

Triceratops not turtle!

@@meswoopnoseenothing turtling is a term used in strategy games where you go slow and focus on defense.

@@barrybend7189also I was wrong regardless because I forgot the Voth were hadrosaurs lol

You could even say the changlings aren’t a natural species, and are the genetically engineered remnants who went nuts. Ala all Tomorrows

I'm almost sure that Progenitors and Preservers were not species, but factions of same specie. Who after discovering that most advanced civilization before them died out, become obsessed in they own survival. One faction take passive approach creating archives of extinct species and they own. Important note, it was recorded in they own DNA. When another start actively terraforming planets and impregnating them with own life. They also left recording of that in species DNA. But I also have another theory who they actually were. T'Kon! Specie who could manipulate whole star systems (terraforming is quite hard in Trek) and created wast network of Gates (look Portal 63), BTW later used by Borg. As side note Guardian of Forever also show in human form in Discovery, holding paper referencing destruction of T'kon by supernova. I personally believe that they capital was located somewhere near galactic core, where area was riddled with anomalies. Romulus was in fact destroyed by same force, what wanted prevent rise of similar power. But that in not everything. I do believe that T'Kon are no one else then Iconians! Tikon?! Though they lore mention slave rebellion and orbital bombardment. It is not mutually exclusive that one of those slave races could be mechanical and detonate Iconian Star. Iconia was also located between Federation border and Romulan Empire. But that is not everything. Though STO consider Tuterians (Sphere Builders) as separate specie, they actually could be a offshoot of Iconians (who were exploring and then trapped in the subspace). They in fact do look extremely close to Progenitors and Preserves (who most likely do use rudimentary temporal tech). It would also safe to assume that Delphic Expanse was located near core and somewhat separate Earth from Romulan empire. What would allow passage during Earth Romulan War, but also not make border obvious. Due to problems with exploration. I do believe that Iconians from STO actually, could be one of several groups of survivors. The differences in look could be explained with genetic modifications. Basic design is still rather similar. Though if having that option Sphere Builders should be Icoinains and then adopt temporal polarization suit over time. What would allow stay them in current time.

@@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat I agree about that.

@TheRezro might be, however the Progenitors first appeared several billion years ago, and the Perservers were 30k to 50k years ago. The Seeders I believe were around a million years ago.

@@jacara1981 Problem is that transwarp gate networks allow time travel. So we should look on them from angle of Temporal Cold War, not the linear timeline. It is also where Star Trek Online fail in my opinion. Tough I assume machines were actively preventing them from temporal manipulation, so it can be sort of explained?

Which fits with Spock's comment in "Return to Tomorrow" about how Sargon's people were possibly ancestors of the Vulcanoid races.

I wonder if there’s an outside entity triggering supernovas

Fortunately (unfortunately?) AI doesn't and can't work that way in real life.

@@jolan_tru I don't think we can say that for certain. There are just too many things we don't know.

​@@jolan_truWhy not? If you can create a machine far more intelligent than humans and accidentally give it a goal that conflicts with human survival, it would eradicate us. Do you not think AI that intelligent are possible?

Season 3 of Discovery takes place in 3189, so that might help you work it out.

@Teresa Ravenshaw so yeah a little over 1000 years then as sto takes place around 2409 that is cool that the time line matches up to that. Thank you.

Ahhh I sense a fellow Arthurian, a fellow man of culture 😅

They were ok