The lesbian version of it?

Would be interested in a video on the straight gaze please x

I'm not sure that using examples of Galadriel, who is supposed to be the most beautiful of all of the Elves, even across the various species of Middle Earth, is appropriate. She isn't even being diminished by it, because she is very clearly shown to be exceptionally wise, powerful, and capable. She is just *also* beautiful, and it's perfectly fair to show that... especially when the other Elves are also lit in a similar way to enhance their beauty (male AND female). It's enhancing the difference between species, NOT sex. Otherwise, this is a fantastic video.

Please do a White Gaze and Straight Gaze video !!

Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES. So take that for what it is.

Yes!!

And that's exactly what the video says 👍🏼

To be seen

Not only just women, men too, but a fair percentage is women

Watched Jennifer's Body for the first time yesterday regarding finding Megan Fox beautiful/sexy.

Literally same, that's why most anime isn't appealing to me even tho I want to watch it for the sake of my friends who love it

Why are terms with male description inherently evil and ones with female description inherently good?

I agree and usually poorly timed lol Male writers/directors will drag out a body shot way too long, like we get it she's hot but can we focus on the story? Most male gazey scenes aren't relevant to the story and could have been edited out totally and the story would still be good. Just plain creepy.

@@jerrymathewninan6739 To your point, no gaze is inherently good or bad. But too much of one gaze can silence and overshadow others. We need to see more. The best point the video made is that we shouldn't make cliche gazes in response to the dominant ones. Instead, we should aspire to see numerous gazes and experiences--whether it's the black female gaze, the gay gaze, religious gaze, etc. And the way to start is to give more opportunities to those groups whose gazes haven't yet been seen.

@@jerrymathewninan6739 I think we should stop labelling things with words like "male/female" and use neutral words instead. IMO, those words only contribute to dividing us more instead of finding common ground to improve society as a whole.

Yes 100%! How tf have they been able to get away with normalising that idea for so long?

and by white male is always anglosaxonian and american cause european gaze is niche, indie, pretentios and arthouse not fun to watch.

someone actually said that?

Who's ever said that the white male perspective is the entire human experience?

100 %!!!

For some women, unfortunately, it mainly exists in fantasy.

Yes as a woman i can confirm

Okay, but men also fantasize about women treating them like a person too.

@@greywolf7577 the difference is treating men like people is normal and expected. Most stories and media have men as protagonists and even the ones that dont still treat male side characters with agency. Wmn, on the other hand, are treated like objects for the maIes desire in most media and only recently has it begun to change.

@@botanicalitus4194 The fact that you couldn't even bother to type out 'women' but wrote men/male(s) several times proves your point.

Andrew Scott is gay IRL, by the way. Might have played a role in him "getting it".

His beautiful neck...

@@carlibezuidenhout5997 His arms..

I didn’t find that actor attractive until his role in that show, so yes. His personality is what makes him desirable. If only the same applied with women.

YES like he was actually interested in getting to know her

I am the most famous man on YouTub! This is not bragging! This is the truth! The truth will set you free, dear re

So true. That line hit hard.

​@@Chris-rg6nm I think most people want to be desirable (being desirable involves more qualities) you want to feel attractive not objectified. It's not the same. I don't think you want to be perceived as an entity who lacks agency or personality, that your thought processes don't matter and that your sexuality is not your own. Men as well as woman want to be multidimensional, attractive because you have different qualities. If you are perceived only as an object not even your sexual pleasure it's important for the other person, you are just a container of desire but without mutual feedback, it's an egotistic interaction, and is not beneficial for the person being objectified. I just mean that being perceived as attractive and being and object is not the same. Have a nice day :)

@@Chris-rg6nm why objectify women when it could've just have been don't to men already?

@@Chris-rg6nm This is stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.

She's basically the reason no one watches the Oscars anymore XD

@@Annihilated481 How? Genuinely asking.

That was funny to me because she has a production company and she only worked with one woman director and that's her. She only worked with one other woman director through her entire career. She is just one of those people who uses feminism. But it is just an act. She actually don't care.

@@wendywinger7169 I would also like to see this question answered.

@@probablyalive.2665 Oscar ratings have dropped massively over the last couple of years with 2020 being an all time low because now it's all just a platform for preachy activism and nobody is interested.

YESSSSS

Oh how so?

That’s because Jane Austen novels are all written where the men are a bit superfluous! There’s the hero of course but most of the books center on female friendships/ sisterhood. It would be a bit hard I think to make them into an adaptation using the male gaze.

🎆HANDS🎆

@@jaimicottrill2831 is "superfluous" the word you think you want?

Phoebe Waller bridge is great at constructing the female gaze

I now feel like watching it all over for a 3rd time taking all this into account

so its Kiling Eve, Phoebe wrote it

@@Kociarra00 literally my favourite example of the female gaze, I'm obsessed with that show

This video convinced me to watch it!

Bless you for your quiet work against that objectification ❤️

This is the most important comment on this video. You deserve more likes.

Thank you for your work

I think about this a lot too! Women (who don’t objectifying other women,) behind camera and editing are highly important.

Doing the lords work, thank you

"this person is a person" has nothing to do with a director being female, so it is pretty sexist of them to refer to it as a "female gaze".

Yeh, but this video still gets stuff wrong by talking cringey, as if 'being hot' has ANY meaning whatsoever.

Imagine how much better the world would be if money and art never had to coexist. All this 'male' 'female' propaganda could go away, and there could be plenty of male and female movies each with both 'female' and 'male' perspectives, because we'd realise that had nothing to do with any of it in the first place

The world would also go extinct if that was the default way of thinking

@@shmeepness1700 it wouldnt

I adore both Rowan and that quote! I love that the Female Gaze fixates more on faces and equality, while the Male Gaze tends to oversexualise and exaggerate.

Don't quote her🙄

Female actions films suck

Ummm Wonder Woman 84 noneconsentual use of a male body* chough*

so true, I've seen so many bad flop films directed by men & I don't even remember their names 😅 but anytime a female director has a major film, (& I'm often rooting for her bc of scarcity in the field) but if her film fails, it's often used to justify why she shouldn't have gotten that opportunity in the first place. even if a female director has a score of good projects & 1 flop, I feel like I hear about the flop for years lmao. like Ava DuVernay for example.

Never gonna forget Lindsay Ellis's video from four(?) years ago on _that_ subject. _Dayum,_ was that enlightening.

*forced to notice her for being attractive

That's the geek fantasy (I'm thinking specifically of Transformers): that a guy doesn't have to have muscles or even look like a grown man to pull in beautiful women because he's so intelligent/witty/creative/special in some other way, that beautiful women will want to be with him, despite having to fix the engine that he can't. It gets written off as comedy or a coming of age story, but 98 lb. weaklings and 300 lb. neckbeards eat this stuff up. There are too many movies like this out there.

@@Ross_From_Synthetica Bumblebee (2018) >>>>>> every other Transformers movie ever

Mediocre dudes do not get praised for neither anything nor by anyone. Nobody cares about mediocre dudes. You've clearly never lived life as a mediocre dude. Mediocre dudes are by definition unintelligent, if people are "praising" them, that's just happening because the guy is pitied and the person doing the "praising" doesn't want to hurt the guy's feelings or cause an extreme negative reaction.

WHAT FUCKING MOVIES DO YOU WATCH

@@Uptomyknees What fucking movies do you watch to think the OP comment is wrong? I would love to see your movie list.

@@bread2951 The majority of female led films from the 70s, 80s and 90s don't work like this. Was Meryl lit for "beauty" in River Wild? What about the Witches of Eastwick? What about 9 to 5? Did these women have no depth? What about Tootsie? What about The Bridges of Madison County? What about Bridesmaids? What about Monster? What about Zero Dark Thirty? I can keep going, literally forever. I can go back further too. What about The Thin Man movies? What about Torchy Blaine? What about Persona? It's corny to even mention it, but what about the Terminator and Alien franchises? Bounce to TV we have Alias and X-Files and Dark Angel and Buffy, damn, holy shit! Not to mention Murder She Wrote, Miss Marple, the list goes on. The Birds? Psycho? Rebecca? What about the movie Vacancy? That's just a random horror one, but psychological thrillers have been FILLED with great female characters since like the 1950s? Copycat? Single White Female? Fuck even the female lead in IN THE LINE OF FIRE has pathos and depth. We can keep going. What about The Help? That movie isn't even good and it has well written women in it. What about Miss Congeniality? What about The Long Kiss Goodnight? Literally you never have to stop, you can just keep listing good movies. Women are generally only written bad IN BAD MOVIES. Movies that are well loved, respected and remembered pretty much universally contain at least one female character with dimensionality. THIS BRAND OF FEMINISM ERASES FEMALE ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN ENTERTAINMENT OF THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF CINEMA IN FAVOR OF BORING BULLSHIT OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS

@@Uptomyknees I don't 100% agree with the comment either, but dude... chill. Don't be so dramatic. Go find a hobby or something to blow some steam.

@@Uptomyknees Yeah, I think most attempts at female-perspective in the last decade have failed because they are too self-conscious about it. They end up presenting women acting like male stereotypes and try and pass it off as empowerment. You listed several movies with great women’s roles for decades that did it naturally, with a more genuine female empowerment. I’d add Gone With the Wind to the list. Scarlett was feminine, strong and thoroughly human. And Vivien Leigh just killed it throughout the whole movie.

I loved birds of prey and idc if no one else in the world does. The outfits were awesome, they built the characters in it to where the next one would be kick ass, amd I mean the glitter gun scene.

Same goes for Wonder Woman. The way she is portrayed in the first movie compared to how she was portrayed in Josh Whedon's Justice league, really bothered me. It wasn't what I expected, because I have always liked Zack Snyder's portrayal of strong female characters, only to have a god who no longer carried themselves like one, and close up shots of their butt, and shots up their skirt. I was relieved to find out it was Josh Whedon's doing, all his re-shoots and edits were to cut down the story for Wonder Woman, and people of colour, and to add shots of Wonder Woman's body.

Movie still sucked. Both of them, and Robbie's Harley is annoying.

@@-Anjel he completely cut out Cyborgs story, which is why it's ironic that the actor spoke up about racism on set, Oh I SEE, I had an aha moment when you spoke about Joss Whedon's reshoots, a racist and a sexist? wild.

I didn't like birds of prey. The plot was was good at first, but it devolved into childishness near the end. Harley herself was fine. I had thought overt sexuality was part of her crazy, but I like her crazy more now.

you put it all SO perfectly OMG

This is rich. Women partake in the so called "male gaze" too and vice versa. It's one thing to say many (or most) men oversexualise people. But to create a whole concept of maleness from thin air? The idea being it's not about the behaviour of men that could improve to be better men but that improving itself as a man is by definition to move towards being female. It's as irritating as men telling women what they _are_ and that they should be more _like men_ to be better.

Yea, women attraction to men is more based on his behavior while men's attraction to women is more related to her body parts. I think biology is playing an important part here.

Hm

And culture

Using, frankly, any elf in Tolkein's work to demonstrate the male gaze doesn't really wok that well.

Right, Galadriel isn't even depicted that differently from the woman of desire in A portrait of a lady on fire

@@Charolette21 Galadriel isn't shot in the male gaze. All elves in LotR are shot as beautiful and powerful. Just look at Legolas-girls were swooning for Orlando Bloom for years after those films. Galadriel isn't just an ordinary elf. She's half Maiar, (an angelic race that was created at the dawn of time) there's a reason why she's supposed to look other worldly, that's because she exists half in our reality and half in the spirit realm. Peter Jackson captured this perfectly the way he shot Cate Blanchett. All this male gaze nonsense is just virtue signalling. When Peter Jackson frames male elves for beauty, (Elron, Legolas and pretty much any elf you see) no one says a peep. Do it to a woman and now it's the male gaze 🤦🏿‍♂️

@@JerodimusPrime Did I say she was? No, I did not!

@@Charolette21 what's your point then? Are you saying there's no male gaze on the elves or there is one!

that's a rly nice way to put it and I agree

@@haloum 🖤🦋

Watch Sofia Coppola movies if you haven’t!

i really really like this description. it's perfect

@@pompomzassou 🥰💜💝

George of the Jungle is such an underrated movie. Thank you for bringing this argument to my attention.

Great movie!

I love the video on this movie and how it's made from the female gaze. Ursula and all the women are attractive, but don't dress provocatively in any way. George is hot, but we have insight on his emotions as well. Brendan Frasier and this movie are both so underrated.

YES someone else saw this post ! I just commented with the link ... I like your shoelaces...?

@@kimarkel can you add the link here too?! I saw it in passing a long time ago and have no clue how to find it

It’s being talked about, you might not be occupying or visiting the spaces where it is :) /respectfully - not trying to start a fight here lol/ - it’s not underrated, it’s getting love.

@@yonn my youtube user name is kinda the furthest from my real name :)

@@yonn do you have any recommendations of blogs or whatever to read more about it?

@@__M__133 Not sure if you've seen it, but Lessons from Screenplay did a video breaking down the painting scene in the film.

@@addictedtoprocrastination9986 oh yeah, i watched it recently, also i've watched most of the reviews/analysis i could find in here

Idealizing is just as bad as Objectifying. Both genders has its flaws.

@@yuan713 Seeing people as people is neither idealizing nor objectifying.

Both the female gaze and the male gaze are defined by lesbians not men or women. Straight woman complain about the lesbian glare.

And you can't use these lesbians as some kind of representation of of women. That's like using gay men to represent straight men

@@the_mulattos Ah yas straight women always complain about the lesbian glare. On social media, I always hear women complaining about being cat called and harrased by lesbians. Yep totally ✋🙄

It's so sad and frustrating to see a creator who seems to have learnt nothing from their own work. How can this man not be a 100% feminist after making Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

@@taylor_green_9 Is really weird but most Whedon fans are like "he can't be sexist, he created Buffy"

@@lilil9752 lol let me ho to church everyday and kill a few men every night. Well, I go to church, jesus legit knows my intentions.

Whedon is feminist for 90s standard. Today his works regarding female characters has not aged well, especially it turns out he's an asshole toward his ex-wife and the female cast behind the production which makes it harder to swallow in hindsight.

@@bread2951 I also ho to church to kill men

I love that. She doesn’t quite get it, but she’s there 😂🤍

Grandma is a true ally!!!

10mins into the video and that was all I heard; the female gays, the male gays, the white gays, the oriental gays..

@@MuthoniMinaKimani She definitely is! ❤️

"Oh, you mean the gaze, not the gays"

Exactly! I love that depth of perspective that sometimes lacks in such explorations!

yes, you said it. 👏🏿 I'm afraid that people will become numb to the horrific violence as we casually watch Black death on our phones, & watch femicide on screens. sadly I've become a little desensitized to the latter. It shouldn't take this much pain for people to pay attention.

And all the movies about black trauma

@@ambriaashley3383 actually it is the men who are considered disposable in film and real live

If you're living in the ghetto, you're seeing a shitload of black death at the hands of other black people. Not in video, but in real time

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl while I agree with you this is a situation in which men's rage and indifference is turned onto other men. As was explored in film its generally not women creating these stories and in real life its generally not women with institutional power. I absolutely agree that its an issue and its an issue that needs addressing but I don't think the way that issue is going to be addressed is to speak over women's pain and say "well its really men who suffer" that is minimising and doesn't actually get to the root of the problem.

I agree. However, this channel only confuses me. If male gaze is accepted and appreciated (in terms of money) should a filmmaker go against it or with the flow. We know sex, dumb blonde, etc sells so should an aspiring creator follow the tropes, as its more likely to make money or should she go against it.

And screenwriters - aspiring and otherwise. I often feel frustrated in story meetings trying to express my frustrations with whatever story we are breaking down and this channel gives me the language.

@@bread2951 no, go make a masterpiece that you love not make money, but it depends on what you want masterpiece or money but you can get both, though rarely.

@@savagechicken4518 that's not what Avril Lavigne's second album said

The problem with this channel is that it almost always views female characters (or writers and directors) as good or sympathetic while it views male characters (or writers and directors) as bad or immoral. The only exception being if it is talking about fantasies (so this channel views Manic Pixie Dream Girl as bad and Manic Pixie Dream Boy as good). This channel seems very biased based on gender and comes off as kind of sexist.

When I began watching k-dramas that really struck me, how different it is the way they portray men and women compared to a "western" pov.

Its not just the female gaze, the way love is potrayed is beyond Hollywood. I got into K-drama after watching a lot of Hollywood movies. I just got stuck there. Now, whenever I see people kissing in an English me I find it gross, y'all just eat the whole face. There are stupid K-drama kisses too, where the girl just behave like a rock. Its more about emotions, you feel it. You dont need to see them banging every now and then to feel the chemistry. K-drama couples just look at each other and get you blushing.

@@bread2951 I agree with you but I think it's more than that. I have watched Korean movies where they have pretty explicit sex scenes and it still is different. I guess it's how they write the characters themselves/the narrative. I think a lot o Hollywood movies right now basically think you can exchange character development by putting sex scenes or making out between the couple.

TRUE Edit : to give exemple there's a drama I think it's in OH my Ghost, the guy put off his shirt and the girl is like ~~~~~~, That's something you see in kdrama. And the guys are actually hot

@@thisisntallowed9560 yeah, that's a good example of an "objectifying camera". There's also a scene where the male lead is doing pushups and the camera is shooting him from behind, just his butt..lol It's the kind of thing we don't see being done here for male characters even if it's pretty common for women.

Oh mah gawd there's WAY too many things wrong with Ammonite than just the sex scenes. I'm sorry, but I have more chemistry with the lamp post outside my house than what Kate Winslet had with Saoirse Ronan. The director of the movie happens to be very gay, and apparently the sex scenes were left to the choreography of the actors.

@@sanghamitrade6972 that's it, a gay man and straight women can't know about lesbian love. But Lee still wrote about all those sex scenes, it's a weird fetishization of a romance. We can't say Winslet and Ronan are bad actresses (definitely not omg) so the problem with their chemistry is with Lee's acting direction (or lack of).

@@yannickdrmda5295 The sex scenes in Portrait are just *different*, Sciamma knows how to remove the objectification while preserving the desire. On the other hand, Ammonite was just poop through and through. Kate Winslet gives so much to the film it hurts, but it's just a no no no no no

I find this so weird. I actually checked the angles of some male groups who wore some risqué (for male idols) clothing, like ACE's performances of Cactus, and the angles are mostly from the front or upper side. Nothing as weird as what happens to female idols.

They can’t show their shoulders tho

A lot of the rockstars emphasized their sexuality for female fans with stuff like their chest too

so the beginning scene would be looking at those men through the male gaze? maybe to show us what that looks like so they could then contrast it?

So true. From the moment he drank the spit coffee I was in love with him. It helps that I’m a huge Bo Burnham fan to begin with, but still ❤️

One thing I loved about that movie was how Carey was never sexualized. Even at the end when she was using her body to get male attention, we got one shot of her pulling down her zipper, but no shots of her body. She was still a person through and through. It was amazing.

exactly, they used the female gaze and made us actually LIKE him and root for him... 😔

what a great observation!!!

Finally a comment that says it, that most of this comments and even the video kinda fall flat when we believe in inherent differences, even generalizing assumptions about each gender.

We are All Different, We Should Celebrate Our Differences and Not Weaponize Them but the Bigger Lie is that Patriarchy Exists for People Who Aren't Filthy Rich. If the Point of it was to Benefit Men and Harm Women, it's Not a Good One. I'm a Man, Yet I Have to Pay Taxes and Work for a Living. The Patriarchy Myth is just a Smokescreen to Turn Us on Each Other to Protect the Upper Crust.

@@jodasjones67 paying taxes is not what they’re arguing about it’s an argument of lack of opportunities for people that are just as capable as us

@@lilcamjax Men and women ARE different, so it isn't 'a lie'.

@@tsopmocful1958 it’s a yin and Yang kind of thing…

I was extremely horrified at the movie about the man who filmed the women he killed & attached a mirror so the last thing they would see was their own fear. What. The. F**k???????? That is a terrifying level of sick & they just went right on past it like it wasn’t disturbing AF😲

@@shermaynebrown5165 lowkey traumatizing

@@army4chair345 Not even lowkey, just TRAUMATIZING!

"...we're arguing to be treated as more than meat." It's little wonder that there's been so many former models/actresses known for being hot that become animal rights activists when they retire.

yes, i love people with beautiful hands regardless of gender (and not sexually)

YUP I REALISED I HAVE A THING FOR HANDS HELP

Is it? Is a female gaze identical to physical turn-ons for women?

No, that’s HOW LOW THE BARS ARE FOR MEN

😭 Y'all guys remind me of my classmate

Yes to both.

That's what the captions said. (Not a joke.)

Strangely it reminds me of my friend (he's a guy). Once he said that he's tired of movies because "most of romances between boy and girl are oversexualized"

@@1fromoutside your friend is totally tight which is why I think I dramas are better they’re usually more romantic and less rushed and way less sexualized. It takes like 10 episodes to even get the characters to hold hands

Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES. So take that for what it is.

There's nothing wrong with ogling as long as it's done discreetly or the target of lust ogles you back.

@@1fromoutside He's either asexual, belongs to a weird religious cult or that's a line to make himself seem 'not like other guys' to women.

so therefore simps internalized misandry then...

@@massetozacarias5693 Um kinda but I don’t think it’s the same 🤔

Omg yesss

Same, I just look away and wish it would end sooner because sometimes it last for a whole minute.

@Danielle Barber Sure. Listen to 'cherry wine' which is about domestic ab*se. Or 'from eden' which apparently is about an affair. His songs are written about love and lovers but what sets him apart I feel is the way he tells the story without sexualising it. For eg, listen to his song 'moments silence'. Apparently it's about oral s*x,but he made it sound almost spiritual that i couldn't even make out the meaning until much later.

@Danielle Barber you r welcome. I hope u like them as much as I do!

@@auroralee3934 i love cherry wine so much! And the fact that in the video it shows a female victim of abuse while the lyrics hint to a male vuctim of abuse. I love him so much for showing that. Male and female victims of abuse and their voices should be always heard!

@@ilincabogza true that❤️❤️

Yesssssss

I didn't know that! The editing is the thing that makes that movie great. A lot of people did a lot of great work, but it's the editing that makes it such a non-stop thrill to watch.

Really? what about all those slow motion shots of those pregnant women hosing themselves down and the naked woman on top of that tower? seemed pretty male gaze ish to me.

@Yautja Warrior No, a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual.....just as in men's case. That's a different issue. Also during that hose scene, they actually remove the chastity belts they had. Not to mention that naked woman was a warrior and had everything under control

@@QueenBee-pb6bt " a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual" so you're admitting the whole male gaze concept is bullshit? The hose scene was shot in slow mo, clearly a choice made to emphasis the beauty and elegance of Immortan Joe's concubines, the removal of their chastity belts doesn't make that any less so. Also the naked "warrior" woman is remarked by Max as "bait". Seems like a pretty objectifying way to describe her, if Furiosa was any indication I don't think that woman would be able to hold her own against a male wastelander like Max, he overpowered Furiosa pretty easily early in the film.

@@theyautjawarrior6652 As somebody who dislikes the male gaze, I agree with you. This movie had a bunch of male gazes too when they were shooting the women.

Literally what i'm doing right now

Same 😹

I do that all the time. 😂

*decked, ripped, hottie with a six pack* me: hot I guess lol *some scruffy grub who is a caring father figure and does his best* me: OHMGMSGS OMFF SIR SIR I ADORE YOU I AWK FHHSH-

@Morgan.S Productions I know, right? I don't get why so many people came down on "Freddy's Revenge". I've heard it's on some kind of list of unintentionally gay movies. (6/12/2021)

@@daniellemusella1594 you’re correct, but it was very much intentionally (on the low gay). The background on the film is so interesting. The main actor actually is gay

@@user-mb9nm7bq5e I know that. I heard him mention it in the "Never Sleep Again" retrospective. (6/12/2021)

It’s interesting how the male gaze being employed in the film is still considered an “unintentionally gay film” when that’s implying the male gaze is, again, catering to men. Just gay men. It shows how people inherently associate dehumanizing or sexualized depictions of people as a male-motivated framing device, whereas emotions are associated with women. It could’ve just been a film meant to cater to women’s sexual preferences, but was then considered a gay man’s film just because of the sexualization of men’s bodies. Just kinda thought it was interesting.

+

Lol yeah. Ive actually always been less clumsy in heels then flats. I started purposely looking only for shoes with at least a bit of a heel from about the age of 12 (maybe sooner) just cause it was nice to walk and run without stumbling as much. I walked, I ran, I played in heels no problem. So I never really took issue with it in film. Its something that had to be pointed out to me as a problem since a lot of the times I would probably run better in what the girls were wearing rather than the boys "practical" shoes. That is until it became more common for it to be ridiculously high wedge and stilettos as they became even more in fashion. Even I tilt my head at those. But I do clearly remember being a kid and seeing a girl take off her nice sturdy chunky heels off to run barefoot down the road and being horrified thinking of the gravel and how much it must hurt and what if there is glass and why wouldn't she just run in her heels? 😂

I think it depends on the kind/height of the heels? I do theatre, so I’m very comfortable in a character shoe with a couple of inches on it. I dance, do cartwheels, run, all that jazz. However, expecting a woman character wearing stilettos to run away from a literal DINOSAUR? Idk…

Flats have always been sexier to me than heels because of knowing how heels impact the gait and deform the bodies of their wearers. Also because they’re not soft - with the spiky heel and oft-sharp toe - and they’re often present in professional settings where interpersonal relationships take a back seat to professional relationships.

+

Actually, no. Next time you reach Rivendell compare lighting on Elrond and Galadriel

@@lizziebooth5397 I suppose but Galadriel is described as "the mightiest and fairest of all the elves that remained in middle earth" in the text

@@adamhopkins2976 what point exactly do you think you're making? Cause it just reads to me as "and that's the most defining attribute of this female character, even in text"

@@lizziebooth5397 But Celeborn is also lit that way in the same scene, as are the other elves in Lothlórien, and the book clearly describes both Arwen and Galadriel as the most beautiful of the elves, Galadriel as the morning and Arwen as the evening. I think Éowyn would have been a better example, as she is a human woman who is still lit beautifully in most scenes, even those shared with her male costars, and doesn't have the elvish ancestry to justify it (though she is never depicted with the ethereal glow as the elves are).

@@issecret1 the point is that Elves in Tolkien's middle earth were the oldest of the races and the lasting part of middle earth when it was magical, pure and beautiful in its entirety, before it was corrupted. Galadriel is one of the last Noldor elves from that time and carries those traits into the third age. Not just the beauty of all the elves, but their wisdom and power.

I'd like to hear your take on how Snyder framed her in Justice League. Lets try to forget about the joss whedon one.

@@abhijiththampi7960 But people seems to like it. So many supports this BS version of his.

I agree. Thank God Wonder Woman wasnt directed with the male gaze, othetwise it would have wOOnder wOOman.

I know! I remember seeing Justice League after Wonder Woman came out and being absolutely heartbroken that they had allowed those up the skirt shots. Did they not see the fan reviews for Wonder Woman and think, huh, maybe not. Like you, I vividly remember a scene where she gets out of a truck or something and they slowmo the camera as her skirt flips up and shows her bum. What has this got to do with story or character building?

@@abhijiththampi7960 It was a noticable cleanup. I mean, her intro scene in the building where she saves those kids? Goosebumps. But honestly I don't remember her as much as Cyborg. THAT was the real major change that showed Joss Whedon's true colours. In the first movie Cyborg was negligable. In the Snyder version he was right at the core of the action. My favourite character in the movie. The fact that Snyder thought that he could cut out such a major character, who is crucial to the story, is the reason the movie felt so empty.

I think it depends on the main character/characters.

lol, THAT'S why? not his same-same acting for whatever film he's in? literally he plays the same character in every film he puts himself in.

Not possible, there's no neutral way of looking at or experiencing the world or a story, you're always looking at it through somebody's gaze, your own gaze shapes how you see things in your life and interact with others. Sure you could make something experimental but it will likely be highly incoherent and still, a wide shot is still a type of gaze depending on what's in the shot, it's not just close shots that define gaze. Being aware of gaze is important to not reproduce it mindlessly thought.

That sounds more like interactive media... VR, video games, etc.

Most of the time, the POV of the gaze is linked to the gender of the main characters... So neutral would maybe create a sort of disconnect between characters and story? But I think it's possible for some stories. I think the most neutral movie I can think of spontaneously might be 'The Grand Budapest Hotel' and similar films

same frickin Ni-Ki and Hyunjin too

legit panicked when hyunjin popped up, i thought my yt must have glitched out or something

I'm afraid there is an element of straight females fans fetishizing men in that case. It's similar to men watching lesbians in porn, but with a focus on the BL relationship instead of the sexuality.

@@mhawang8204 yeah thats exactly what I meant! There is an element of envy/jealousy over their subject of desire (male artist/character) having a potential relationship with another woman do its easier for them to ‘ship’ them with another male and turn it into a lgbtq thing which isnt wrong at all ofc. But many a times this homosexual relationship is also explored through a very cis heteronormative narrative which is ultimately hurtful

@@smrithipoolakkil1277 i personally find the "shipping with another male" thing to be really odd personally, like in a way that just totally delegitimizes gay relationships and gay desire

@@mhawang8204 I have shipped male characters because male characters are better written than female characters

@@AmetafJohora a woman is not a true fan of a property until she writes gay fanfiction about it

check out kdramas maybe

Probably the same as men's gaze. Unless you're going to argue that men amd women have different gazes due the sexes being inherently different... but then you'd be reinforcing the patriarchal ideas.

@@infinitum8558 the video itself suggested otherwise. (I'm a guy so I only have that lens). The video suggested that men value the physical attraction of the body a lot more whilst the women directed love scenes focused more on the character and emotionally bond. I obviously don't know how much these differences might be real or just internalised patriarchy, but that's why I said it would be interesting. I don't know whether it would be different, but considering a lot of animals do value different traits depending on their sex, it's a possibility. Also I don't think seeing differences in sex is necessarily sexist. If men were objectively better at sports or maths (I'm not saying that they are) then it wouldn't be sexist to admit this, it would only be sexist to exclude women who are better than some men just on the basis of their sex. The sexism is in the action not the recognition.

@@infinitum8558 Not inherently different, just socialised to be different. Reinforcing patriarchal ideas would involve being blind to them and so perpetuating them unknowingly.

@@koalasquare2145 Agreed. Sexes are in some ways very different. I've read about some studies that showed that girls reach neurological maturity for language literacy much earlier than boys, but that maturity in math literacy for girls comes late in their teens. The difference is not the problem. I am sure most people are familiar with the concept that boys develop this later, but no one knows about girls and math literacy. So the exclusion comes in where school happens to be structured so that boys can catch up (the entirety of high school) and girls get dropped just as they reach their peak potential. Which leads many people to believe that boys are just better at math and girls at language. I am not sure about the validity of the study, but it's a good illustration.

None of this is knowledge or science

The CEO of nestle?

The way I literally shouted when saw niki lmfaoooo

I was looking for the first person to mention them!

seriously, i though i had to be hallucinating, god this hiatus has me fcked up

@@Lili-ig1wd yeah same!!! I was like wait did I accidentally put this on?!😂

Yeah this TAKE is not balanced.

payback

Don’t forget the toxic relationships the main character is involved in. The more masculine love-interest can be extremely abusive towards the male protagonist and it’s just uncomfortable. It’s like women are fetishizing the abuse through the lens of the male protagonist and he is basically a “self-insert” character for women to project onto. The only BL stories I’ve seen that actually has the protagonist in a healthy relationship is Given and Yuri on Ice. There are probably more but these are the ones that didn’t make me feel uncomfortable. There’s also the WebToon comic called “Boyfriends” that features a wholesome/consensual polyamorous relationship between 4 guys

@@CalmClamFam thanks god someone pointed point, yes it always bothered me that they borrow tropes from straight narratives to make the stories more attractive to a female public. Also I feel that some women do it because reading about situations where men are abused, makes them feel like they have the power, sort of like a revenge fantasy, which is really messed up. Well, I used to read a lot of yaoi when I was a teenager, but when I grew up I realized how toxic some of the stories where, so now I took distance from it and recently just watch Korean BL dramas, which I think have a better approach, it is not perfect yet, but at least there are not abuse narrative, my favorite one is “To my star”, totally breaks all top/bottom stereotypes and toxic masculinity, is beautiful.

Comics for women are so often predicting "bad boy" behaviour which often just predatory behaviour and I can't stand it. I also can't stand when a woman is predatory towards men. Bc trust me that happens a lot too. Blackmailing, forcing ppl to do things even tho they said no, mocking someone's appearance while secretly liking them, forcing physical contact etc etc the list could go on. While young audiences might fabtasize abt these things as an adult female reader i can't get into stories like that. If this behaviour is present in a story and portraid as bad behaviour that's different but most these glorify it and show it as if it was romantic.

This would be interesting.

I’m genuinely curious! What would you have done differently? Judging from your profile pic and comment, I am assuming you are a Black woman, (though please correct me if I’m mistaken!) How do you feel like the male gaze intersects with women of colour onscreen? Do you feel like the existence of a female gaze to counteract it is inherently harming or excluding women of colour, or just that this particular video did a poor job explaining it?

Thank you dude

@@thaddeuscramer2312 I think white women tend to tip-toe around their own sins. I love this channel. I've watched it since its inception. I'm also a fan of holding people accountable by giving them the feedback they need to grow. I'd rather watch The Take grow instead of die. Even though this video is about women, white women were both the central focus of both objectification and the answer for correcting the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with white women presenting theories and arguments and illustrating these theories with white women. However, when white, liberal, feminists, who view themselves as "open-minded" fail to fill in gaps of overt racism in the male gaze and female gaze, they continue to fail women. This video may require further research and exploration from their colleagues of color.

I somewhat agree but, when you say how the gaze is women morality is inherently good, if you have a certain level of intelligence you will know that a very flawed thought that could be argued doesn't apply. Even in the vid, the male gaze could be practice by women too. The vid is not that long it can't talk about everyone. Instead of complaining ask them to make a vid discussing what you want.

'Not all women personify other women' but they didn't say that lol, its discussed in the beginning of the vid that women often internalise the male gaze too. The male gaze is not exclusive to men just as the female gaze is not exclusive to women

I kind of hate this over glorification of women being super emotional in a psuedo cosmic spiritual sense. As a female, I can't relate to it. Most ways other girls view men I find to be boring and internalized sexism. I oddly enough get off more and can relate to gay men. I like a guy who can ride me, plow, fuck hard, etc. Unfortunately, while more sexually empowered women are coming out, they're being accused of perpetuating the male gaze because everything we do is for men apparently. At this point, the only way I could prove to these idiots my own autonomy is not for men is mentioning my vore fetish since 90 percent of the general male population don't find that attractive.

yeah i don’t get why people think that it’s wholesome when a woman looks at an attractive man but dehumanising when a man looks at an attractive woman. we’re all attracted to beautiful people regardless of sex

@@will506 I think sometimes it's wholesome in either case. But it's also not wrong if it's not wholesome. The only thing that bothers me is the way that it's done (disrespectfully) or the fact that women don't get valued as much for things beyond that. I mean with male characters there's always the loveable dork that gets the beautiful girl no matter his looks. I think a lot of men might see themselves in those roles. I'd love to see more characters like that for women even without the beautiful man.

I was so surprised XD i was like... Isn't that Hyunjin???

i love discriminating against as straight white men

I really think its less a straight white cis man problem and more a cultural one. Its not some inherent flaw shared in the dna of millions forcing them to act a certain way. The generalization doesnt help anything. Its calling out prejudicial problems of one kind with prejudicial thinking of another. If you look at creative works made by straight white cis men from other countries or other points in history or ones who dont objectify in Hollywood you can find examples that clearly show its not a race/gender/sexuality crosssection issue.

I didn't mean to discriminate, it is their point of view and they free to tell so. If one relates and enjoy watching them, it is okay too. But dominanting all mass media industry and not giving a chance to others results in creating weird concepts for what women should be, what acceptible asian traits are blah blah.. No one forces white cis man to like Emma, though from the comments i witnessed most of them thinks that movie is overall absurd, and emma is very unlikable, a boring experience and emma is still annoying at the end no character growth or anything 😐 The situation is quite amusing actually.

@@khaxjc1If Hollywood sells dreams for white cis men, why shouldn't i say they sell dreams for white cis men? The reason may be cultural or not doesn't matter. For example let's say Japanese women is in charge of the largest and most influential media tool globally, then we would be discussing about what are they selling as the optimal men (all around the world) for Japanese women gaze. My point is they should give opportunity to other stories told by others. I don't like how half of the human population can be called as "others" in this century.

@@mai-qy9ji there is plenty of examples of men being objectfed for the female viewers

As a dude I'd like to ask about what is attractive about man's hands. They're usually hairy and not very pretty.

I'm pretty sure you'd have realized you were attracted to women without having to dehumanize them and reduce them to visually appealing objects. It's kind of the subject of the video.

@@rosiebowers1671 Male Gaze doesn't have to be dehumanizing. The video also says that.

@@rosiebowers1671 just because a female character looks good and the filmmaking takes a moment to capitalize on it doesn't mean they can't be a good character. Alien has a moment where Ripley strips down to her underwear, does that make her dehumanized?

watching the male body building competitions made me realize that I want my body to be similar like them

Women don't see men as we see women.

Tbf, the John Cusak's High Fidelity had him breaking the fourth wall. It was a stylistic choice, the book reads sort of like a music 'zine from the 90s in some parts (top 5 songs that XYZ, top 10 songs to XYZ to) interspersed with... Grown man coming of age sad romance?

I don't think they are able to decide which ads appear on their videos, that's on KZfaq.

I've been thinking about this a lot. Part of me wonders if the best place for these ads *is* in critical spaces where they're more likely to be dismissed, at cost to the advertisers, rather than right-leaning echo chambers where they might direct traffic. Of course, on the flip side there is the possibility of the ads "reaching" viewers even on videos like this one. It just makes me wonder how best to employ malicious compliance in order to undermine these reactionary con artists.

I haven't seen a Prager ad in years - perhaps because when I did, I reported them as "inappropriate".

@@elucified the only way to make change is to bring issues to people's attention. I'm not blaming them, I'm letting them know.

@@Molly-ml1wn I'm not sure how KZfaq's algorithm works. Specifically, as it pertains to predatory advertisers such as Prager. Their ads are wasted on me and people who think like me for sure, but that doesn't make hearing their promotions any less emotionally taxing. I hate hearing their demented and harmful rhetoric.