I think Dark Angels. They readily fall to Chaos.

Son of Dorn….. stubborn as hell

@@RobouteGuilliman-M41dark angels don’t readily fall to chaos…

@@joshley1320 really? Tell that to the Fallen.

@@RobouteGuilliman-M41 yes really a lot of them ain’t even traitors. A lot have stayed away from chaos and some have fallen this was talked about in the newest lion book and cypher book

In fairness the previous version had some piss-poor audio. I have no idea why I thought it was acceptable back then.

Happy birthday!

Happy Birthday

For real it's like the Luna Wolves were founded as a chapter in modern 40k

@@Flight_of_Icarus They have that Messiah complex, like a detatched "I know what's best so follow or die" aura around them that smacks of Luna Wolves.

They even use the same tactics as Luna Wolves. Playing to manueverability and ideal positioning is 101 in their book.

Luna Wolves/Ultramarine geneseed

Honestly, this "theory" is just a rehash under a different voice. I have a much better theory that should be considered- So to start, I would go off the symbology of the Astral Claws. Prior to the rise of Luft Huron to the position of Chapter Master, the Astral Claws chapter symbol was a lion's head. That could described a solid connection to the Dark Angels via the nickname of their Primarch Lion El'Jonson. Furthermore, many successor chapters, especially those of the Dark Angels, take on similar motifs. A key example being the Desciples of Caliban, whose chapter symbol being a heraldic lion wielding a sword. The ĺion of course a call back to not only the primarck but also the calibanite lion Lion El'J had singlehandedly slain. To continue with symbology, the Astral Claws, prior to Huron's rise to power, had some interesting connections to ancient Middle Eastern civilizations. The key being that of ancient Assyria, modern day Iraq, with the touch points woven in the culture of the Astral Claws tapestry. This is especially evident in Huron's terminator plate, the Armor of Pride. Across his armor plate are several ancient Assyrian influences. Even his choice of weapons, close combat oriented for a chapter master, calls back to the earlier age of close combat scrums that were fought in this earlier period of Terra's past. Along this connection to biblical middle east is the use of the term antediluvian. This term means pre biblical times and is used to describe the linkages, vaguely, of the Astral Claws chapter traditions. However, overlaying the Claws' use Assyrian and Abrahamic traditions over that of the Order of Dark Angels there various similarities. An inner circle of Astral Claws, described as the Tabernacle of the Old Ones, much like the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels. Another link to the Dark Angels is the Astral Claws style of warfare. Their reliance on plasma weapons shouldn't be lost on any observer. Furthermore, though it's never established that Claws have a Deathwing or Ravenwing, they sure do have a similar formation with the use of Iron Hunters. This was a formation, exclusively of bikes, that had been apart of the Astral Claws for millennium. Sounds a lot like a Ravenwing-like formation! Though not touched upon in the Imperial Armour source material, perhaps there was an Astral Claws formation of terminators akin to the Deathwing. As touched upon earlier, there was an organization that guarded the Tabernacle of Old Ones and the Imperial Armour source material did showcase very ornate terminators that were much outside the established guidelines via the codex. Perhaps, those terminators, guardians of the Tabernacle, were the Astral Claws equivalent to the Deathwing. Another aspect of consideration is how the Astral Claws were declared destroyed via a joint campaign with, strangely enough, the Dark Angels. Mysterious indeed! The Dark Angels, a chapter known for secret legion building. Though the Astral Claws chapter was to be reconstituted, the question should be posited, was it done so to create a secret chapter of Dark Angels??? Something to consider, especially due to the pure geneseed of both Astral Claws and Dark Angels. Or perhaps, the Astral Claws were something close but not close enough… Another chapter to have participated in the Babdab War was the Star Phantoms. This relatively unknown chapter displays a very unique chapter symbol- the ancient hexagrammaton Dreadwing, one of the six wings of the Dark Angels during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. Both the Star Phantoms nor the Dark Angels acknowledge any familia connection. Though, without a doubt, the Star Phantoms are in fact the remnants of the disgraced Dreadwing that had been expelled from the Dark Angels Legion following the destruction of Caliban. So it is telling that in the closing days of the Badab War that the death knell to the Astral Claws wouldn't have come from any other participants. The Claws had utter trounced chapter after chapter, the majority being that of Ultramarine successors. However, the Dreadwing, ops I mean the Star Phantoms, came in and utterly rocked the Badad Primaris. The sons of the Lion against each other and perhaps not even realizing it. Afterall, both chapters are know to utilize overwhelming firepower in order to crush their enemy utterly. As a side note, the Star Phantoms are stated lore wise to be of the 38th founding. The Astral Claws the 10th founding. The Claws are stated to have have had three successor chapters founded from them, the Tiger Claws being one of them. Perhaps, the Star Phantoms are another of the three?? Pure speculation and I still contend that the Star Phantoms are the remnants of the Dreadwing following the Herersy. In any case the Badab War, can be described as a scaled down Horus Heresy, that is among the loyal successor chapters. In this conflict are an exhausting amount of Ultramarine successor chapters. Also, the seed of Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, White Scars, Iron Hands, and Salamanders. Not persent were the Space Wolves (or Wolf's or is it Rout?!?!), which makes sense as the Space Pups weren't to have successor chapters until the advent of the primaris. The only other loyal successor not present were the Dark Angels. Or as I've laid out, perhaps they were present the entire time on both sides of the conflict. Seems incredibly likely that successors of the Dark Angels were present. Afterall, a conflict of this size and scope not attracting the attention of either the Fallen or Unforgiven seems incredibly unlikely. That is unless, the main culprit, the Astral Claws, were in fact successors of the Dark Angels…. I have more lines to draw from and would love to continue. However, either you or another reader just has to ask. Another aspect of consideration, is the recent lore following El'Johnson's return. During both his debut novel and his narrated return via the Arks of Omen conclusion, establishes that the vast majority of the Fallen had actually not fallen (great play on words lol). Rather the rank and file left on Caliban and sucked into the warp were always loyal to the Lion and Emperor and were largely clueless to the machinations of Luther and his own inner circle. Hence, vast formations of both Luther and the Lion's "Dark Angels" were swallowed up into the warp. This could be a theory how the Dreadwing were to completely dissappear from the contemporary Dark Angels force structure. Those legionnaires were to find themselves instantly thrust into the far future, a future they would have found themselves dead too. They renamed themselves the Star Phantoms and assumed hardcore mortuary practices as they considered themselves already dead. The contemporary Dark Angels, so far removed from their Legion heritage, completely unaware that a Dreadwing even ever existed. The Astral Claws perhaps are much the same. Remnants of loyal Dark Angels who had become lost to the warp storm of Caliban's destruction. Upon their return doing their best to understand the operating environment and create a semblance of The Order via an antediluvian background. Or….. they're something vastly different. They're remnants of the loyal Alpha Legion. In the closing books of the Seige of Terra we learn that the Alpha Legion had planned, at the final hour, to return to the fold of the Emperor. However, something like roughly half the Legion had the opposing code word activated. Hence, the Alpha Legionwas to become a divided force via psycho indoctrination. There's good evidence that the Astral Claws could be loyal Alpha Legionnaires. I the closing days of the Heresy, as touched upon earlier, roughly half the legion would have sided, via psycho conditioning for the Emperor. Hence, a remnant of these legionnaires could have founded the Astral Claws in the midst of the 10th founding. Furthermore, as touched upon in The Alpharius novel, the Alpha Legion was to have the most purest of geneseed. Beyond that of the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. Additionally, Alpharius had a fondness for ancient terra cultures. Especially that of the Hellenistic period. Hence, his use incorporation of hellenistic symbology. Therefore, the loyal elements of the Alpha Legion could have founded the Astral Claws ans used elements of both the Lion and ancient Terra to establish a long winded lore. Afterall, the Alpha Legion does like to play the long game. That and and they had the most purest of any geneseed- the geneseed gifted from the Emperor to the Corax following the Dropsite Massacre. Perhaps, in the closing days of the Badab War, Huron or maybe a Librarian steeped in the knowledge of the chapter, had stumbled upon the true nature of the Astral Claws and opted to erase all elements of it. Meanwhile, for the Imperium, the Inquisition had realized that the histories of the Astral Claws, perhaps even the Star Phantoms, had been secretly peppered across the historical evidence. Thusly, causing a edict of obliteration of anything referring to the Astral Claws. Nevertheless, the Astral Claws heraldry were to somehow survive in the age of primaris. The Iron Ravens, a supposed successor chapter of the Raven Guard, was the be created. Strangely though, assuming the colors of the Astral Claws. That and their unique fighting style….

Two in fact!

Naerina features quite often in our videos. Not only does she do the Homebrew of the Week videos, but she narrated our recent video about Craftworld Iyanden. :)

Valid points!

Oh that's a cool point

What's interesting is that in the Huron novel Master of the Maelstrom, Huron himself doesn't even know. But when Guilliman's ship turns up he remarks that it would be ironic if he was his Primarch.

We have a video covering that topic. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e8WFddaJqrzIdqs.html

Why stop there? I don't see why 150% of Chapters couldn't be descended from Robby G

Well there was that incident with the Mantis Warriors...

@@40KTheories you don't see them turning traitor. Far lesser chapters have fallen for even lesser reasons.

Could the Dark Hunters' beef with the Ad Mech count as extreme behavior?

The White Scars as a whole are underutilized overall. I'd absolutely love to see White Scars traitor successor chapters. I had the idea of making my own traitor sons of the Khan before I decided to go a different route and build an army of The Scourged.

I do have an on screen annotation about that (and the contradictory nature of it) at 6:53

@@40KTheories Not just that, also from warhammer community page. I think this would have been better said in the audio since it is a common knowledge by everyone by now.

To be honest, I'm reluctant to include info from Warhammer Community due to how much they simply get wrong. Like the times they claimed the Death Guard were the 7th Legion (they were the 14th, Imperial Fists were the 7th) or that Remus Ventanus was a Night Lord (he was an Ultramarine). Granted they did correct those errors eventually, but the point still stands.

Maury: DNA Results, which primarch is my daddy?

Those type of tests do exist, since it's how the Soul Drinkers learned they weren't Imperial Fist successors. But nobody seems to think to use them.

You will have to consider the Imperial Bureaucracy for that.

Given that all traces of the 2nd and 11th's identity was expunged, it's likely that the original progenoids of the lost legions were surgically removed and replaced with new ones derived from Ultramarine stock. This idea is actually supported within the novel Pandorax, as Epimetheus, upon becoming a founding member of the Grey Knights, would have his original Dark Angels progenoids removed and replaced with new ones with genetic material derived from the Emperor himself.

She's not an AI, just Finnish :P

@@40KTheories kek, I like how this implies that Finnish people sound less lively than an AI.

@@windwind3170 According to stereotypes we shouldn't be talking at all. :D

@@40KTheories Finnish people aren't real because there is no such place as Finland, so that means it *must* be an AI.

@@10dice "we?" Nice try, Skynet -- but we all know Finland is made up.

It should be noted that the icon of the Astral Claws isn't a lion's head, but a tiger's (hence why their successor chapter is known as the tiger claws).

@@40KTheories is it a tiger head??? Because it totally looks like a female lion head. In fact, a male lion head is very prominent not only on Luft Huron's armor but also that of the of terminator armor depicted in Imperial Armour. Alas, not a tiger! I'm definitely onto something here

You may be right, though I distinctly remember reading somewhere that outright called it a tiger's head. Could be the mandella effect, of course, and that I might be misremembering, but I'll need to double check.

@@40KTheories additionally Hruon's armor is named the Armor of Pride (Armour for my British folks). Pride in this case is a play on words for both the familial pride of lions but also Huron's pride.

@@40KTheories I love your channel! And have been waiting ernestly for your thoughts concerning the updated lore from the Seige of Terra but that of Indomintus era.

Supporting arguments are empire building, 🎉 fuck you I know what’s best you are ineffective as f so I will build an empire and do what needs to be done this impirium is fucked tell me more how this is Bobby g’s boys just got twisted

However with Rodger D being corrupted by khorn in the latest terra book gives a good sign towards corrupted gene seed from that time and would fit

A dirty little secret In 40k is.. everybody is wrong.