The Gospel That Will Awaken Miltia | Xenosaga Ep.II Analysis (Ep.2)

The Gospel That Will Awaken Miltia | Xenosaga Ep.II Analysis (Ep.2) | State of the Arc Podcast

Рет қаралды 9,687

Ай бұрын

Despite attempts by many of you to convince us otherwise, we still really like this game!
While visiting her brother, Jin, Shion blames his absence for the deaths of their parents during the Miltian Conflict. Meanwhile, during a procedure to analyze the Y-Data MOMO possesses, a virus implanted by Albedo activates, and MOMO fragments her own personality to keep Mizrahi's data secure. Shion, Jr. and the rest of the group initiate an encephalon dive to enter MOMO's subconscious and save her. During this period, Jr. reveals that he and his brothers were part of an experiment by Dmitri Yuriev: Yuriev's wish was to create an existence that would neutralize U-DO. The three of them were close, but Albedo became despondent when he discovered his immortality was unique to him, meaning he would outlive his brothers. During an experiment, Jr. breaks the circuit containing a portion of U-DO, resulting in everyone except himself, Albedo, and Gaignun being killed. After being touched by U-DO, Albedo goes insane while Gaignun remains unaffected. As they save MOMO, Albedo hacks in and tricks MOMO into releasing the decoded Y-Data to him, and using that data, Albedo opens the way to Miltia. With Miltia accessible, the Federation, U-TIC, and the Immigrant Fleet fight each other for control of the Zohar hidden on the planet.
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Пікірлер: 162

@ArtificialVik Ай бұрын

When two chads talk about xenosaga I sit my realian ass down and listen

@JIX9ISLER1986 Ай бұрын

URTVs???

@greg9088 Ай бұрын

So say we all.

@Xenobears Ай бұрын

Dmitri Yuriev is one of the greatest examples of an “easy to hate” antagonist. He does so much harm to characters we like and we get just enough backstory to understand that he’s completely selfish. Looking forward to the Xenosaga 3 analysis. I also love how closely Jin resembles Citan from Xenogears-it’s like we’re seeing a less successful version of Citan who, instead of being a Renaissance man who mastered ALL the skills and knowledge, simply dabbled in various hobbies trying to cope with the sense of loss he felt after the Miltian conflict. There’s so much to his character that I look forward to hearing your thoughts on.

@Xenobears Ай бұрын

33:40 for Jin, I kinda assumed that the shoulder tapping was like a nervous tick-that he was trying to work out some tension caused by stress.

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

While I love Citan from Xenogears he is kinda a Gary Stu. Ridiculously smart, created so many of the Gears we see in the game, the fastest character and the most powerful after he gets his sword, pulls through to save the day at times, etc... Jin obviously is this game's expy for him but they were wise in making him a much more flawed character.

@Xenobears Ай бұрын

@@quiddity131 yep-I loved Citan as a party member (despite his being pretty messed up at times *cough Canned Soylent food WTF cough*). The only thing keeping him from being ridiculously OP compared to the entire rest of the party is how easy it is to make other characters similarly powerful with accessories like the ether doubler or the power crisis. Jin feels like a more grounded take by comparison (and he doesn’t do anything nearly as evil as Citan).

@CycloneFox Ай бұрын

I love Shion as a protagonist! She is absolutely not a bad character, but she is a super flawed character and there are absolutely good reasons why she is so flawed. Typically when there is a character with trauma and possibly depression portrayed in a video game, they act really sad and such all the time. But that's actually not very realistic. Real depression is something you won't really see from the outside because the person will build walls around himself and just tell you "I'm fine" all the time even if they are not. Shion's portrayal is absolutely that, just count how many times she says "I'm fine" and pushes away people. That is absolutely the more realistic approach to portray it and not something we ever have in a videogame. I just love her as a character, even if she would be super annoying to have around as a real person.

@leadintea Ай бұрын

Wholeheartedly agree! In pretty much any other anime/video game, you'd get your stock standard female characters but Shion is so different from the rest of the pack. I understand that she's not "likable" but I loved how refreshing and real she felt compared to most other female characters in the Japanese video game space.

@TJTheEmperor Ай бұрын

Im very glad to read this comment. As someone who’s dealt with mental illness basically my whole life, I resonate with Shion hard. Hers is one of the most vivid portrayals of trauma and depression I’ve ever experienced, and it honestly pisses me off reading much of the discourse surrounding her character. “She’s unlikeable!” Hey buddy, THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT. She’s not supposed to be well-adjusted - she’s got years and years of unresolved trauma. It reminds me of those idiots who watch Evangelion and when they bring up Shinji they inevitably say “get in the robot lol.” It’s disheartening that there’s this subset of people who have that sort of knee-jerk response when they encounter a protagonist who’s not only mentally ill, but their experience with said mental illness is kind of the entire point of what they’re watching.

@Dekkarra Ай бұрын

It's so tragic how the Xenosaga series is so inaccessible (outside of emulation) for those that'd want to experience all of this again. Bandai Namco need to do something, ANYTHING, to make this available legitimately to modern audiences.

@GRAG3R Ай бұрын

ps2's and xs 1 and 2 are cheap. 3 is grossly expensive though.

@markasscop Ай бұрын

@@GRAG3R not too many people want to go the route of getting a 20+ year old console and all the potential headaches that come w/ it

@jacobmonks3722 Ай бұрын

@markasscop This is true, I am not too many people. Not to mention a lot of people don't have TVs with composite input anymore, so they'll need an HD adapter also.

@ChristopherRoss. Ай бұрын

If you buy the game, you can legally emulate it.

@AdlerCat Ай бұрын

A lot of people believe a port to Switch will be coming sooner than later. With the events of Xenoblade Chronicles 3 DLC, Future Redeemed, Xenosaga seems to be critical to the future of the Xeno franchise. There's some signs that Monolithsoft and Nintendo are playing nice with Namco in contrast to the relationship with Square Enix. Nintendo seems like the peace maker here that can put humpty dumpty back together, maybe, maaaaaybe bringing Xenogears back home one day. Also I think Baten Kaitos is another Monolith soft-namco deal, and that's getting a remaster switch port. So it's not like namco won't allow a remaster project bring a game to switch.

@TJTheEmperor Ай бұрын

I’m really glad I’m listening to these episodes - it’s helping me form a more nuanced view of my opinion of this game. Im in complete agreement that the character moments are very well done, as opposed to the more lore-based, worldbuilding moments, and it makes total sense as to why that is. The writing team may not have been able to understand Takahashi’s world, but the character moments aren’t necessarily tied to all that worldbuilding, hence why they’re so well done. If I were to make a revised version of my video for this game, I’d do a better job emphasizing those points

@egoborder3203 Ай бұрын

this might be one of the finest episodes you have ever produced, in terms of reading through the lines and getting into characters' emotional states

@hian Ай бұрын

I think it speaks to the quality of the story given how enthusiastic your discussion gets in regards to the details of the characters' inner lives and history. It sounds less like you're talking about a story and more like you're talking about real people, and that's probably a testament to the depth of the characters.

@alenezi989a3 Ай бұрын

Exactly, and that's one of the main reasons why I love Xenosaga so much. We never get these complicated characters in JRPGs it, these games feel like a mixture between slice of life anime and a tv show and a scifi video game.

@taco3305 Ай бұрын

Came for xenosaga , left being a better dad. This podcast is awesome

@jacobmonks3722 Ай бұрын

Another beautiful connection is the conversation from Xenosaga 1 where (not remembering the full context) Momo asks if she will become a real person when she does enough good deeds. As soon as she fragments her consciousness in the analysis to save the Y data from being lost, a form of self-sacrifice, Juli emotionally breaks and finally sees her as her own daughter, granting Momo honorary personhood.

@leadintea Ай бұрын

Shion's disposition makes sense when you find out that Takahashi used the enneagram to help develop the characters in the Saga series, which you can read up on in the Xenosaga: Official Design Materials. Don't want to spoil it for you guys, but knowing her enneagram type and where she is mentally really fits her character.

@phillosmaster393 Ай бұрын

I like the idea of using this as a writing tool to force you to write different types of personalities for your characters. Certainly I've read authors where all their characters had too similar a voice.

@Zoeila Ай бұрын

Probably explains why I like her and others dont

@alenezi989a3 Ай бұрын

@Zoeila I really like her too, I'm confused to know that don't like her. She kinda speaks to me weirdly.

@bartandaelus359 Ай бұрын

The flipside if this is that your characters can become too archetypal and predictable.@@phillosmaster393

@EdreesesPieces Ай бұрын

I liked her a lot until a certain point in Xenosaga 3 and then I hated her for her actions , its not her personality that bothered me. But she is a very interesting character.

@miiks...5...3...9... Ай бұрын

UMN dives are always peak fiction.

@bartandaelus359 Ай бұрын

Except for the gameplay experience within them....

@Izzak_Beck Ай бұрын

Yooooo, miiks.

@SaintBoot Ай бұрын

This series man. I really want it to have a remaster.

@FatedTim Ай бұрын

I really enjoy how this game tackles familial love. Whether it’s siblings or maternal/paternal I believe the core of xenosaga 2 is “what it means to be family” whether it’s chasing after a phantom for guidance or hiding from the shadows of their past. Each character has lost a part of their heart to another and they grieve in different ways. I believe Shion sees Kos-Mos as her daughter, and is almost blind to all else. Like some real world parents, Shion ignores what Kos-Mos faults and almost obsesses over her very being. To her it is a link to Kevin, to her Kos-Mos is a means of redemption-a life she believes she must cherish-since her family did not cherish her. To avoid mentioning spoilers for 3, i will stop this here, but I believe a lot of projection is happening with a lot of these characters. Also love this segments of the game.

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

Agreed; my interpretation is that Shion totally views KOS-MOS as her surrogate daughter with Kevin.

@kupocannon Ай бұрын

This series is my absolute favorite. I wish it would get a remake/remaster. Anyone who understands it at all usually gets a bit obsessed with it. I'm absolutely obsessed with it. Thanks y'all for doing this.

@Ellhaim Ай бұрын

I'm still more fond of the OG Xenogears, but Saga is truly very good. The biggest issue I have with the Saga trilogy is the number and length of the cut scenes. I almost wish it had been an anime instead of a game, because as a game, it really doesn't feel satisfying. As a story it's incredibly great!

@TheMilhouseExperience Ай бұрын

@@EllhaimThe Will to Power had an anime, and it was meh. Okay by 2000’s standards but nothing too exciting beyond the main plot.

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

@@TheMilhouseExperience Unfortunately the anime is a rather poor adaption. For example Cherenkov is one of my favorite parts of the first game and my recollection is Mike and Casen did a lot of focus on his part of the storyline, how it tied into The Will to Power, etc... The anime simply cuts out the character entirely. It also kinda clashes with the visual style of the game and I found it appalling that they didn't even bother to get the English dub actors, who at the time were common actors in not just video games, but anime as well.

@nick859 Ай бұрын

At least easier access to play the games would be great

@michs7451 Ай бұрын

With regards to the sequence between chaos and Jin, the trailer for Xenosaga I featured a version of that scene with the cut: "The outcome of the future changes alongside with time. When the Sacred Light is seen, people lose their original existence. This is ... [Wilhelm: "The Will to Power."] Another translation of the same line is: "Our consciousness constantly changes form in its unending search for the future. When a man finds a guiding light, he runs to it, this is the will to power." Going back to the Nietzsche, Nietzsche writes a very beautiful passage in Thus Spoke Zarathustra that captures the essence of this part well. "But let me reveal my heart to you entirely, my friends: if there were gods, how could I endure not to be a god! Hence there are no gods." We can read Nietzsche's attempt at the reevaluation of all values after the Death of God as his attempt to "become God" and craft an interpretation of the world in his image, his unique will to power. He is in this case in essence the moth that chases after the light at all else. That idea of "becoming as gods" definitely seems like an idea that persists throughout Takahashi's works, as well as colours his interpretation of the specific relation between the human and the divine...

@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972 Ай бұрын

The X on shion is the greek letter Chi which represents Anima - Soul of the World (Plato).

@srswriter1165 Ай бұрын

The Xenosaga trilogy has really well written characters and lore. I know that many prefer Xenogears and I understand why, but I think Xenosaga has it beat specifically when it comes to character dynamics and character writing. There is so much depth to them and you can discuss them and their actions for ages. Yes, Shion is definitely not a likeable protagonist and is deeply deeply flawed, but I'd argue it makes her Takahashi's best and most well written protagonist (of the Xeno games I've played). She's just written on such a psychologically human level that the others protagonists sometimes struggle to match. The other party members, villains, and even a good amount of the side characters are also extremely well developed over the course of the three games (as evidenced by all the wonderful discussion in these episodes).

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

As much as I love Xenogears, I feel that some of the characters come off as too perfect at times? Citan and Elly especially. Xenosaga does a great job writing much more flawed characters. Shion is not the most likable protagonist, heck there are many people who absolutely despise her, primarily for stuff that we won't get to until the third game. And I can't deny that there are reasons to hate her. But is she a really well written character? Absolutely. This isn't a series for a Mary Sue/Gary Stu type protagonist.

@aidanuzuki3449 Ай бұрын

@@quiddity131I really like how she doesn't fit a lot of common JRPG archetypes.

@alenezi989a3 Ай бұрын

Agree, Shion is so completely different than any JRPG protagonist, and Xenoblade series where the characters are the typical anime protagonists. Shion just feels like a real person.

@cursedcancersurvivor Ай бұрын

1:40:40 It's funny you mention this. Albedo's design with the white cape is very moth like. 🤔

@MrMaskedhater Ай бұрын

"Nothing as simple as an AI could have created a space-time anamoly. " Alvis: Hold my Conduit

@wildblack1 Ай бұрын

Alvis didn't really do the same thing though

@TheOtaxephon Ай бұрын

I absolutely love these in-depth analyses of Xenosaga all these years later. The whole "Is Shion a robot?" theory was one of my fan favorites back in the day and hearing it mentioned here unlocked some deeply buried memories back on the GameFAQs forums. There's so much nuance with this story and you guys are doing an excellent job making light of a lot stuff that I had frankly completely forgotten about. Keep up the excellent work guys!

@michs7451 Ай бұрын

Great episode. This section had some of my favorite sequences throughout the game, and I'm glad it got a meaty analysis from the both of you. A few points to add: This whole sequence was apparently "tolerably faithful" to Takahashi's and Saga's script for Xenosaga II. In an interview on her website, Soraya Saga wrote that: "Q11. Did your past contribution leave your mark on Episode II ? (01/30/05) A11. Very fragmentarily. The scenes for analyzing Momo in the UMN administration center, memories of Sakura in Momo ENCEPHALON are tolerably faithful to the original."

@michs7451 Ай бұрын

Soraya Saga would go on to clarify the extent of her involvement in Xenosaga 2 as follows: "The conversation between Juli and Ziggy Momo Encephalon (In first version, It was not Juli's idea of destroying Momo's memory, but a subcommitteeman's. Juli hesitated.) The story about U.R.T.V. (with the exception of the chapters after Momo Encephalon and young Albedo's verbal abuse/violent acts against Sakura. They were added by Monolithsoft.) Albedo's short speech about the higher dimension. (His last words "You look like you lost your sweetheart ... anyway I hate you both" were added by Monolithsoft.)" According to Soraya, while Monolithsoft made changes in the entire Episode II, it seems it was mainly disc 2 that deviated from the original plan: "The chapters after Momo Encephalon and Disc 2 are his [Norihiko Yonesaka's] style." - Soraya's FAQ from Fringe (2005), Ver. 2

@joshuahelmeke Ай бұрын

40:45 Casen, you just nailed it, bruh! I can’t wait until you guys get to Xenosaga 3 and discover who Chaos REALLY is. But yeah, you just nailed the entire pretext of the story for Xenosaga 2.

@ArtificialVik Ай бұрын

Jin using his hand to shield the moth from the flame reminds me of Moses climbing Mt. Sinai and wants to see God, and God covers him with His hand, so His face can pass before him and then He can turn his back. Also, some commenter already said it but you guys absolutely killed it this episode.

@alenezi989a3 Ай бұрын

Shame can have a positive effect. The aversion to feeling shame can cause a person to not do a bad thing they would've done otherwise. It's like an internal deterrent. Shame in a society has a purpose it has negative and positive effects. It's a way to keep the societal norms without inforcing them through the law.

@caturiges Ай бұрын

So it's finally here. Episode 2 of the analysis of episode two of Xenosaga, itself the second installment in the Xeno series.

@aidanuzuki3449 Ай бұрын

The design on Jr's back is supposed to be the Durandal!

@xon-zs1or Ай бұрын

It's really easy to dislike Shion, and it's supposed to be this way, to me it's very clear. She is the greatest video game character ever made, no exaggeration, she is a masterpiece creation of Sorya Saga and Takashi.

@phillosmaster393 Ай бұрын

I like that Shion is not a clean white hat protagonist. She actually is pretty nasty to alot of people which I find interesting and really seperates her from some of the more altruistic characters. That she has emotional issues I think makes alot of sense given everything we know about her by the end of the series. I think her faults are more pronounced in the second game given it shines more of a spotlight on other members of the cast where XS1 really had you riding on Shion's shoulders through most of that game. So for alot of it she was our POV.

@patrickmalone3665 Ай бұрын

I think the problem is more with framing and tone. People don’t mind protagonists that are flawed and maybe even downright evil, but when the story frames them as “what a nice anime girl who’s gonna save the world!” If more characters called her out for her flaws, it would feel more like a purposeful narrative/character choice that more people could get behind.

@phillosmaster393 Ай бұрын

I don't know. I feel like that framing is inherited from our expectations from other RPGs where this type of character is a certain way. Replaying the games I'm not sure most of the people think that way about her in the game. Everyone kinda walks on egg shells around her and she inserts herself into alot of the plot when she wasn't invited or welcome. I feel like there is a dissonance between our meta expectations for the character and the reality of the character as presented in the story. I don't feel like any in game interaction is showing us a "nice anime girl". I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be friends with Shion if I knew her in real life. I'd really struggle with her self important attitude which was present all the way from the beginning of the first game. She has empathy for non-humans which is the candle of humanity for the character, but when she's talking to a human it's like she's swiping a bug from her face. Luckily for her most of the cast is non-human :)

@kevinstreetgaming Ай бұрын

Crispin Freeman is such a great voice actor.

@SaintBoot Ай бұрын

I really love the atmosphere on Miltia when they get there. The music, lighting from the sunset, and the water in the distance are all surreal and calming to me.

@rpdt96 Ай бұрын

Wonderfully analyzed. Two parts of this episode’s analysis really resonated with me: Jin and Shion’s older brother-younger sister dynamic and the profound weight that shame places on a person. For the siblings, the patronizing attitude Jin has is really spot on, and you guys were able to explore the complicated tangle of emotions and frustration that that would create. As for shame, this also is a great point that created a sort of “thread of ideas” for me - beginning with the patronizing and ridiculing of the sibling dynamic, to the shame put upon someone. Usually, the one instilling shame is an older person, the person with more “power”. Talking through that was incredibly fascinating to me and gave me some great food for thought on exploring my own feelings along this vein.

@SaintBoot Ай бұрын

It's weird, but I really like the english voice acting in this series. Especially 1 and 3. I liked the Voice acting in two, but prefer the others better. The voice acting in part 3 in english was amazing, imo.

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

1 and 3 have much better actors in them, and at least Episode I was produced by a company that at the time was doing an amazing job with anime dubs, including the famous Cowboy Bebop dub.

@fragermaf Ай бұрын

I watch these in bursts so apologies if this gets explored later in the video but I'm really excited about it: so the conversation between Chaos and Jin discussed around 40:00 - The talk about extradimensional intervention protecting the moth from the flame got me thinking that this scene could be seen as a greeting followed by a greeting in kind. Something you see a lot in more political dramas is this sort of posturing through contextual prose to say "I see the real you; I see your true intentions" followed by some sleight or comment about those intentions. In that light Chaos is saying "I saw the real you 14 years ago, is that still you?" to which Jin says "Yes, and I know you are the same, but also here are my growing doubts about this path". The audience has seen that Jin was protecting the moth by trying to acquire and hide the data 14 years ago. The extradimensional part may have to do with Chaos: we know that he can interact directly with Gnosis, that Gnosis are extradimensional beings, and that Chaos has acted almost entirely in an observational role while occasionally intervening in a way that allows people to continue to live towards some sort of natural conclusion. Thus: a greeting followed by a greeting in kind where Jin cuts to the chase of acknowledging that they share the same goal while also voicing his doubts and qualms about it. The best part is that that's just *one* way to read the scene. As voiced by ya'll already by 43:00 (where I'm at in the vid) there's a lot of things being communicated in this dialogue. Really beautiful scene.

@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972 Ай бұрын

The "gift of death" given by Illuvatar to humans in Tollkien's lore sounds very close to what Ziggy said.

@Artimes. Ай бұрын

Final Fantasy is like a children's book compared to the complexities and deeper themes explored in the xenosaga series lol. It is crazy that Resonant arc, as analytical as they are when it comes to exploring the fundamental nuances of storytelling and literature, have never actually experienced this trilogy. I think fans for years have been trying to dissect this series accurately so i look forward to further discussions from kasen and mike.

@tinyguy9398 Ай бұрын

Dude Casen. It might be an in game reference from Pied Piper but ‘Death is rest for the soul” is a huge component of the philosophy of Schopenhauer which if you consider all the Wagner references through the course of Xenosaga it wouldn’t be too far a leap to think Saga and Takahashi were also familiar with considering the all of Wagner’s mature operas, at least in part, were influenced by Schopenhauer.

@Paul-to1nb Ай бұрын

I feel like you guys should just finish up Xenosaga 3 after this. This is such a lore heavy series and you'll want to have everything in mind. And selfishly, the wait is gonna be unbearable 🤣

@ResonantArc Ай бұрын

That's the plan. We're jumping straight into Xenosaga 3.

@Paul-to1nb Ай бұрын

@@ResonantArc WOO HOO!!!

@snakeman1853 Ай бұрын

@@ResonantArcI am so hyped! I ate the whole episode 1 podcast and didn't know you had started episode 2 ! (Dumb KZfaq algorithm). I am also extremely happy you are enjoying this episode. I made a comment way back on episode 1 final podcast saying that the hate on ep2 was a bit undeserved and that you guys would enjoy this one (especially the cutscenes direction, which imo is better than EP 1). Glad to have you guys exploring this game.

@fattmusiek5452 Ай бұрын

I love that you guys are doing Xenosaga II. Cheers fellas! Thanks for making this great content

@phillosmaster393 Ай бұрын

this is the bucket of the game IMO. It's paced well at the beginning of XS2 and picks up at the end, but the long car chase sequence from the last episode, the weird scenes with the Uzuki siblings and then traversing the same woods map multiple times was a breaking point for me the first time I played it. I do think the game eventually climbs out of this hole and there is some real good lore drops in this section and character interactions, but it's the roughest part of the entire experience.

@phillosmaster393 Ай бұрын

If only they'd do some sort of re-edit of the trilogy to smooth out the experience. I think it would be way better received. Especially now considering the popularity of xenoblade.

@SaintBoot Ай бұрын

I never noticed that Shion's outfit did not fit her because as soon as I was able, I would unlock her swimsuit and just use it for the whole game.

@jacobmonks3722 Ай бұрын

Double Skill points is enough reason to use it if you ask me.

@charliebee5154 Ай бұрын

When spoken out loud by an anglophone, "trompe l'œil" sounds like a choking episode followed by a death rattle. 😁 Still, it has its charm. Oh, If Juli was french, her name would be written as Julie. As a first name, Juli comes from old latin, but I don't know which language picked it up after that. To me it always sounded east european...ish?

@aidanuzuki3449 Ай бұрын

Missing Year is the part that feels like Xenogears Disc 2 tbh. It's important, but it still feels so brief for the content it's supposed to carry.

@SkyCladBrent Ай бұрын

Glad you guys are enjoying the game so far, and yeah I agree that the English voice over is kinda stilted in this one. Thankfully Episode 3's English dub is considerably higher quality and they got KOS-MOS and Shion's Episode 1 voice actors back for it and they sound much better

@maxstratton4289 Ай бұрын

I can't wait to see these guys make sense of the Perfect Guide for 3 and its wacky-looking diagrams

@Real2KRosters Ай бұрын

51:00 Ziggy's other daughter suggestion is directly because of his experience in Pied Piper!

@justicerainz Ай бұрын

Another fantastic video!

@disturbedrebirth Ай бұрын

I think everytime you face death is a completely new thing. I faced death once before and in that moment, I felt ready. However, I don't feel ready right now. Too much left undone.

@fordr8646 Ай бұрын

I’m really appreciative of you guys investing the time to examine and discuss this series in depth. Xenosaga was my first Xeno games and although I actually owned them all, I never made it past the second one. It was just too difficult for me as a kid. Replaying it now with you, I haven’t changed my opinion on that. I do think the game is too difficult and the character’s gameplay progression doesn’t offer the player enough mechanisms to tackle the difficulty. That aside, I really love how this is a direct sequel to the first game, and how much depth and understanding it builds for the characters. Truly remarkable character writing and posing, a lot of thought went into each of these scenes. They did a great job on that front. I do have some thoughts on Chaos and other characters but I might be remembering parts from further ahead when I played as a kid so I’ll save them for the next episode. I also want to add, since it seemed like Casen was a bit hesitant, that I appreciate his thoughts and experiences as a father. It makes me ponder and question how I’d react in similar circumstances if my partner and I have a child. I found it very helpful. Thank you.

@disturbedrebirth Ай бұрын

I think the smacking the shoulder that Jin does is to show that he's old, or at least sore.

@linnaealyn Ай бұрын

22:53 Obligatory correction that Fei didn't "forget" important memories "on purpose". He was a brand new alter that formed when Khan sealed Id away in their mind. That this new alter formed because there was no one fronting. He has no access to their collective memories from the moment he was formed, Id only had access to the bad memories, and that "the coward", Fei's fundamental core, was keeping all the happy memories to himself. There is **dissociative amnesia** at play here, but that term is not the same as simply "amnesia" and with both dissociative amnesia as well as plain old amnesia there is no "choosing" to forget. In one of the magazine interviews Takahashi says he specifically chose to make it seem like just another super cliche jrpg-protag-with-amnesia trope in order to catch people off guard when it was revealed that it was much deeper than that and that amnesia actually played no part in the game whatsoever.

@ardith Ай бұрын

Nothing on the enemy attack from Necessity "Jack Ketch is a Killer." I needed to hear about the 1st Duke of Monmouth, James Scott, telling this guy he needs to sharpen his sword to execute him. Which of course resulted in the Duke of Monmouth standing and berating Ketch after Ketch failed to behead him with his first swing. I'll also add that from the Xenosaga Episode 1 database it lists Juli's maiden name as Niwashiro. Her name in the Japanese is ユリにわしろ (Yuri Niwashiro). Most of the women in Xenosaga are named after flowers, or have some form of flower in their name. Soraya Saga also tweeted that two of the women involved with Ziggy are related to the Bible verse in Song of Solomon 2:1 "I am a rose of Sharon, a lily of the valleys." Sharon Rozas is pretty on the nose, but Juli Mizrahi is far more confusing as there are monitors during MOMO's Analysis scene that display her name as "Juli Mizurahi" (very Japanese). Juli itself is German and means the month July, but at the same time she's Yuri or a Lily. Make of that what you will.

@TheLastSecretGarden Ай бұрын

2:12:45 I've said it before so many times but I'm here once again: you guys need to do the film The Last Unicorn. Call it a "bonus" Ghibli film. You owe it to yourselves! Man did I ever love this episode.

@cloudkitt Ай бұрын

The fact that they make you do this dungeon twice in a row was when XS2 really started to drag on me gameplay-wise, lol. I think Shion's likability also takes a hit due to her voiceover in XS2. Lia Sargent in XS1 and 3 makes her more relatable, imo. And yes I always enjoyed Albedo's triple-pun of momo = peche = peach and péché = sin/sinner But another excellent episode guys. Your analysis of Xenosaga continues to be top-notch, and thoroughly enjoyable.

@SamwiseTheNotSoBrave Ай бұрын

If you guys like the master planner character archetype, you need to watch the Disney animated series Gargoyles. David Xanatos fits that mold to a T. I think there's even a TV Trope named after him (Xanatos Gambit). Also, it's just a great show (one of my all-time favorites, in fact). Loving the Xenosaga analysis!

@alenezi989a3 Ай бұрын

I can't remember if the explore Shion's past in this game or the next, but they do and there's an explanation for why she dislikes her brother. She's kinda traumatized by something.

@markasscop Ай бұрын

I actually liked shion in episode 1 despite the flaws, but the deeper I played into 2 and then 3, wow did my opinion of her nosedive

@TheMilhouseExperience Ай бұрын

It’s ironic how my opinion of her was the inverse of Allen. My favorite punching bag earned his BA in Badass. He really deserved better.

@shimonorenji7020 Ай бұрын

Toranaga is Ieyasu Tokugawa, but what Mike said still applies to him. Nobunaga was busy conquering Hell when Tokugawa became the sei i tai shogun

@EvilCronos13 Ай бұрын

if the option is you extend your life once and you get all of the time, then I don't do it. I can't imagine trying to fight my own demons for an eternity, even if there is more good than bad right now. After 10,000 years, I would think the bad would start to outweigh the good. If it's as simple as a dose will extend your life by a year or a few years at a time, giving me the option to make the choice over and over again, I agree with Casen that I would be tempted to push things down more than I otherwise would want to. I don't think I would keep that going forever though, but I can see myself adding an extra few decades for sure

@blueroman460 Ай бұрын

Another great xenotypical episode!

@yxnilI Ай бұрын

Very cool video!

@ThePunchening Ай бұрын

Jin being a Captain at 21 is semi-reasonable. It's 3 promotions in 3 years. *IF* (big "if") the Galaxy Federation's defense forces operate on a merit based system for advancement, and IF (biggest "if") that organization has managed to magically curtail the historic military precedent of punishing raw exceptionalism out of sheer jealousy... then yeah. He'd be a shoe-in. I'd urge an etamological analysis of his name: He was designed to be just that good.

@CielBlanche Ай бұрын

Get used to the feeling that it skipped over hours of big things happening! Kyahaha!

@blumiu2426 Ай бұрын

There is much to be said of those two and it makes sense how it concludes if you've played Xenogears.

@TheSpectacledOwl Ай бұрын

Regarding the final point that Mike brought up, I'm in the same boat. Been in a similar situation where I stared it square in the face (if you know what I mean, you know how it can change you). If attaining immortality were possible, I would reject it. Even as a child, the power of immortality was never a thought in my mind. The powers I would want were either invisibility or flight.

@linnaealyn Ай бұрын

33:24 I just saw it as a simple character animation used in dialogue that doesn't really MEAN anything per se, a close fisted knocking into the muscle to relieve tension. Like 14 years ago he was super fit and a master swordsman, but that was 14 years ago! Its very much a part of this trope to be the warrior that used to be unstoppable, but over the years that mastery took a toll on his body.

@OmegaLogos Ай бұрын

About the section you guys get into at around the 12 minute mark of this video… you had an extremely similar conversation about Billy and Jesse in Xenogears. I thought it was an astute observation then and equally so now The parallels between Billy and Jesse, and Shion and Jin become are similar. Jesse was the caretaker that failed Billy and Shion sees Jin as the caretaker that failed her. Also, on Juli’s scene with Ziggy. It comes off as very natural for Ziggy to think about it this way, given that this is probably *His* view of his own paternal feelings for Momo. Ziggy had a boy, so the differences between his own son and Momo are a little more salient. Not to mention that Momo can’t be construed in any way to be a replacement for his family. Regardless, his feelings exist. Ziggy naturally thinks of Momo as a new daughter, it’s fitting he would give Juli advice that echoes his own perspective.

@stevenrohttis4202 29 күн бұрын

MOMO'S insignia on her outfits is the Mizrahi lab symbol

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

Great episode as always! Xenosaga II gets a lot of hate but you've done a great job throughout this episode pointing out all the great story content that the game has, at least through the first disc. I think its a totally legitimate criticism on how the game speeds through major events in the span of like 2 minutes at the start of disc 2, leading into a couple of dungeons that a lot of people consider to be filler. Although one can make the rest of the game way easier by grinding with Shion solo in the first one. I recall all the way back in the Episode I coverage when we really started getting into the URTVs and the origins of their names and Casen bringing up the fourth one, knowing all the time that he was correctly predicting something that would eventually become relevant, we just would have to wait a very long time to get to it... Shion does get some hate from this game, but its really Episode III driving most of the hate that she gets. I will have plenty to say I'm sure when we get to the relevant stuff, but I think the writers do a great job portraying a character that acts very true to life. One doesn't have to like the protagonist to consider them a well written protagonist.

@LS1Highwind Ай бұрын

All this talk about the Xeno series and I'm just sitting here wishing I had Mike's hair 😂

@AceBadguy Ай бұрын

High five to everyone reading this.

@cheshireimp493 Ай бұрын

A little thing I appreciate about this part is by showing us how Jin hopes to stay apart of Shion's life by pushing her, it also gives us context to how Albedo stays relevant to Jr. by tormenting him in his own twisted logic. As much as I love the connections and development of Juli, Momo, Ziggy, and Jr. for me it's how quickly and simply they can make you understand what could drive Albedo to become what he is. It made me ask questions like how would we treat one another as people if we could remove death from the equation? Would we be as cordial as we'd like and/or pretend to be? How do you truly connect with those that can't share the same experience as you? No matter what he can't understand how Rubedo and Negredo see injury and harm, but He can experience loss and he is well too aware of it. It defined him not as just an evil villain or a sympathetic villain, but a pitiful villain in my eyes. One you wish didn't go down the path he did but you know there is justifying his actions, and he must be dealt with. I'm glad to hear that you two enjoyed this part of the story as much I had. Personally, I always thought the hate for this game came more so from the gameplay than the story. Now I wouldn't say It's my favorite of the 3 but I was surprised to discover so much dissatisfaction with it.

@Hawk767 Ай бұрын

So far this has been a good series to have on in the background, enjoy the philosophical tangents while really not following the actual games story at aaaaall. Spoilers aren't a thing in that case at least ha.

@kirkcavanaugh1493 20 күн бұрын

Shion doesn't think Alan is on her level, but she does seem to think more highly of Alan than of the rest of the people in her department. And girls manipulate guys. They do it all the time.

@linnaealyn Ай бұрын

1:54:53 His portrait was quite obvious, so I don't think you have to avoid it as you guys did go over Pied Piper before XS2, but just never mentioned him at all.

@Inf1n1ty11 Ай бұрын

I love the xanatos gambit

@Whitewingsx Ай бұрын

I have not played Xenosaga 3 yet. Shion tends to treat Realians better than humans.

@linnaealyn Ай бұрын

Joaquin Rozas. Its ""wakeen"" as in Joaquin Phoenix. Its 2 katakana away from Joachim's name in Japanese, at the beginning and the end, ofc: WA vs YO and N vs MU.

@gabrielhammond523 Ай бұрын

Chaos protects Kos mos from the fire.

@AgahnimDarkWizard Ай бұрын

will you guys cover what some NPCs had to say? sometimes they can give some good insight into the lore of the game, plus I remember one of the Vector ones explained how Shion's glasses were a gift

@XenosbioZ Ай бұрын

If everyone else is extending their life, I might too… out of shame.. for not being like the rest of them 😂

@JEANS__ Ай бұрын

Will you talk about the significance or Jr. being URTV 666 soon? I’ve been waiting for it since Xenosaga episode I :). I do find it interesting how as people we associate arbitrary things like numbers as having a significance as superstition things like ‘bad luck’. And when it turns to be true we of course confirm it via bias and ignore the times it were fine. So it’s interesting Jr. did ‘mess up’ or ‘betray’ them out all the URTVs. this is even outside of the relation to the religious stuff of course. Idk if i saw anybody mention it, and you didn’t mention it despite playing the subbed version. but in the JP version when Albedo killshimself, he gets an actual pistol out instead of a ball of energy. it’s kinda cartoony and looney-tooney lmao the way he just pulls it out like that. So outside of any censoring related reasons i like the energy version better. Jr. in the present is obsessed with guns lol but just a coincidence. maybe he should be traumatised by them in the jp-version order of events if that was his first exposure. Also very looking forward for the immorality discussion next time. Beat lost odyssey earlier this year so been on my mind from the thousand year of dreams (of course rather than much from the main story baha)

@tinyguy9398 Ай бұрын

Hi Mike and Casen. If you truly want to take the ‘if death becomes a choice’ line to its logical conclusion you have to ask a very uncomfortable question. If in the future you claim it’s your right to not choose to live for 1,000 years even though others will tell you that not to live for 1,000 years is selfish and awful for those left behind and instead you chose to allow yourself to die because it is your choice ‘not to live’, how then do you reconcile that with the 1,000’s of people today who will make that choice? If it is my choice to choose death in the former why is it also not my choice to not choose life in the latter? Is denying life in the former than not akin to denying life in the later since all that exists to distinguish the two is the timeframe in which the decision is made?

@TheEvilOmega Ай бұрын

Two things! Auron and Jecht also did the shoulder thing in Final Fantasy X! It was just animated better. Xenosaga did not have the budget to animate like FFX. Also, people don't really have public shame, anymore. I work retail. No amount of staring, sighing, making comments out loud, or any kind of behavior indicating that people are doing something they should be ashamed of in a public setting has any effect.

@MooseheadStudios Ай бұрын

Freshman hairrr

@kylebales1692 Ай бұрын

two chads talk about robots

@dayphaser 14 күн бұрын

I looked away for 2 seconds and then they were talking about black holes. What happened? Lmao

@gabrielhammond523 Ай бұрын

ALBEDO!!!

@TheBeird Ай бұрын

Wait, so this is essentially the second part of part one? Not really episode 2 of 6? Damn, and only one more game after this. How do you condense all that planned story into one final outing without completely changing what was initially intended? I’ve come around on Casen’s POV; do one and dones. Give me a complete, satisfying meal and then if enough people like it, cook something else up. It always puts me off when something is sold as “first in a multi part arc.” It’s like, that’s very presumptuous of you. Make a good first impression before proposing marriage, ya know?

@JEANS__ Ай бұрын

the 3-6 episodes of the original 6 episode plan had no baring on the contents of the final episode 3. they’re just left out. 1-3 are parts 1-2 of that plan. the others were going to take place with mostly entirely new characters set in the same universe.

@TheBeird Ай бұрын

@@JEANS__ I wonder if some of those ideas ended up in the Xenoblade games

@CycloneFox Ай бұрын

What's up with Mike's hair whenever you do a Xenosaga postcast? During the episode I podcast he was bald. Now he trimmed it all the way down again... xD

@quiddity131 Ай бұрын

He had long hair during the Xenogears podcast, looked like he was finally getting back to around that length until this episode :P

@Artimes. Ай бұрын

game 2 as a literary presentation for a story is not that bad, i think what most people's complaints are is in relation to the character modeling, some voice acting and confusing combat system. This was on the PS2 generation and for alot of us, gameplay was everything, if it had inconsistent and confusing mechanics, the game was trash to us. Which personally I think is a very unfair judgement for something that actually just requires a bit of challenge and executes everything else so well.

@r4gn4rok1 Ай бұрын

Most fans have little to no problems with the Storytelling in Xenosaga 2. It's the gameplay that makes it the least enjoyable Xeno game. Xenosaga 3 in my opinion is top tier though.

@SoManyHaystacks Ай бұрын

Wait a minute, only 3 episodes to beat Xenosaga 2? Is it that much shorter than the first game?

@TheMilhouseExperience Ай бұрын

It’s like 10 hours difference between the main game’s playtimes.

@disturbedrebirth Ай бұрын

Shion's the worst.

@OmegaLogos Ай бұрын

Very excited to hear that conversation about life extension. Spoilers: Keith is correct. Sorry, Mike and Casen. Any opinion on the contrary I find to be a massive failure of imagination. What does tedium mean to a creature that can take the reins of their own mortality? The level of biological customization and optimization One can reach through immortality is virtually limitless. We’ll be able to tailor our tolerance for boredom, not to mention forget most of what we experience and re-experience it again. I think it would be wise to reconsider exactly how profound this shift would be.

@michaelcoraybrown Ай бұрын

As a very quick reply to this, your point here assumes the foundation of my view on this is "boredom" when it isn't. Boredom is not the crux of my argument.

@jacobmonks3722 Ай бұрын

I think immortality saps the purpose and the meaning out of life. When your time is limited, each decision you make matters so much more because you never know if you will come by any opportunity again. This allows you to grow attached to the memories that you accumulate because they were truly defining moments for your life. When you live forever, nothing you do is inherently valuable anymore. Working on an infinite scale makes everything become routine and predictable because, given enough time, it will happen again. Every opportunity that you had can be taken when it comes by again, making the decision-making process worthless. I think most people subconsciously understand this. I mean, you don't have to look very hard to find stories that denigrate immortality, appreciate impermanence, or both. Heck, Xeno itself does this many times. One of the recurring themes of the Blade series is how immortality kinda sucks. Seeing all the ages before you exacerbates the folly of mankind, causing a loss of hope and a detached personality. Also, if we're thinking in practical terms, life extension would really only benefit those who could afford it, meaning the mega rich would just rule over everyone for even longer.

@OmegaLogos Ай бұрын

@@michaelcoraybrown I don’t assume that it’s the crux, I seized on one objection I heard you guys discuss because it’s one of the simplest and most often heard. “Immortality being a prison” is what I imagine would be your main driving point and I’d expect nothing less complex. I’m sure you’ve given this a lot of thought, you and Casen give everything a lot of thought if this KZfaq channel is any indication. That said; I can’t help but think that hearing mortal beings object to immortality because of some preconceived concern with suffering, to be the same as a legless man worrying over the detriments of dancing. We’re all mortal now and have to contend with the finality of death, so it would seem to me we’re all very incentivized to give ourselves back pats and say “it probably wouldn’t be that good anyway.” In any event, I look forward to hearing your conversation with Keith. I know that I’ll be hearing something thought-provoking. Love that you guys are continuing to cover the Xeno-games and love the channel in general. Keep up the great work.

@OmegaLogos Ай бұрын

@@jacobmonks3722 I have such a different perspective. I don’t think that things are valuable foremost or only because they’re finite. If I could produce an infinite supply of copies of the original Mona Lisa, it would take the value out of ownership of it, but it would be no less beautiful a painting. I view the experiences we have in life in much the same way. A cool breeze on a sweltering day, the myriad colors of a summer sunset, A lover’s kiss to welcome you home…these are things I truly try not to take for granted, I try to practice mindful gratitude. I’m human so I sometimes fail. I think taking things for granted and becoming accustomed to certain conditions, both good and ill are part of our nature for sound evolutionary reasons. My decisions aren’t valuable to me because they’re the only ones I’ll get to make, but rather for the experiences they let me have (sometimes over and over again) and for the experiences that I avoid… relishing those moments as I have them and sometimes also when I reminisce. Memory is as perishable as life and when you’re dead, as far as I can tell, you won’t remember living. So what’s ultimately the point in fretting over the preciousness of memory? I think us moral human beings trying to determine the worth of the experience of immortality (at least in the biological sense, I don’t think true immortality is possible) is very much akin to how a 2 dimensional being wouldn’t be able to perceive a 3 dimensional world. As I’ve grown older “the folly of mankind” has become something I’m more and more capable of passively accepting, but still recognizing as a problem. Maybe we go through this process of being poor caretakers of our environment and each other because all of us eventually escape the consequences of that folly through death. Every time a person dies a library burns and a different, maybe critically unique perspective also disappears. If we had more time, and knew our beings would persist, suddenly we would all care a lot more about how we’ll be treated and about what we put out into the world. Lastly, I don’t think that life extension being solely for the rich would be desirable (even for the rich) nor is it even going to be possible in the world that’s coming. This would lead to an entirely different conversation, but I think the future promises a world of post-scarcity. AI is going to make classic models of economics obsolete. “Money” wouldn’t have much value in a world where human work is worthless. No matter how gifted the human, whether it be a coma patient or Elon Musk, they’re not going to compete with an AI that has a 2000 IQ and has the equivalent of 20,000 years to think about an issue for every 1 minute that the humans have.

@jacobmonks3722 Ай бұрын

@@OmegaLogos Thanks for the thoughtful response. You've given me a lot of food for thought. I may take some time to think on it.

@ChaosAngelZero 20 күн бұрын

The moth and light allegory ain't all that deep, just replace "moth" with "child" and "light" with "electric socket".

@Rubidius Ай бұрын

I completed Xenosaga Episode 1 and Episode 3. I quit halfway through Episode 2. Couldn't stand the different character art designs, different voice actors, different composer and I felt that the way the game organizes skills by letters of the alphabet was unhelpful and made for a poor user experience.