She sounds like an absolute lovely girlfriend😑

Cecelia's english is really good. What she seems to be avoiding is the "me too" possibility of being accused and investigated/prosecuted by a girl with morning after regrets (Swedish American with lots of swedish cousins). Julian Assange is an example. 11:40 - "If I want to go out and hook-up" - ok, damaged LT goods. 36:00 - "I'm willing to pay my part..." - ummm, what about paying for everything? He's been paying for both parties for months, and Cecilia's thoughts go as far as "my part"? 42:30 - Nice observation about "getting set in your ways" - OTOH, fairly lack of complete situational awareness about their future. After 35-40 - you are going to be alone (and making excuses). Kept saying "I don't lnow f I want kids" - yes she does, but apparently to openly say that will upset her friends and indicate failure. Best wishes.

She wants a traditional man but she is not traditional herself but a femenist? She will "offer" to pay but at the same time doesn't really wanna pay, If he agrees and she pays she will lose attraction. Picking and choosing the good things hahaha. Careful with these women guys.

Thank you very much Marina. Please have Cecilia again. It validates a lot of what you wrote in your book 😊

As a Swedish guy I have to say that the line between Interested-->Not Interested-->Creep probably appears to be much broader/more obvious for women. But for a guy that line is very very thin. The more attractive/charismatic you are, the more of a "free pass" you get on that scale. Doesn't matter if it's IRL or online. I just wish more women gave compliments in general, most guys I've spoken to haven't received any compliment in years. A woman can just post a picture on the on whatever platform to instantly get a bunch of compliments from men, sure it's far less common out on the street though (and feels more genuine), but it's still something. Personally I think social media has affected women a lot, like Cecilia here is an example of. Constantly seeing women living "freely", doing whatever they want and have fantastic partners that does everything for them. But that's just the picture of social media, outside of the camera they just as boring as everyone else. Completely missing that a relationship is about making a good life together and learning lessons. It's not about fitting into model of an American romance movie or what you see on your instagram feed. It's quite ironic when she speaks about all these things but not once is she asking herself if she is expected to do the same. Equality goes both ways :) That's not even bringing in the biggest factor of them all and that's the ratio of women vs men showing interest. Dating apps give a good indication. If she scrolls for a couple of minutes there will be 50 guys lined up and she has all the time and power in the world to choose which one of them that seems the most interesting (if any). A lot of those guys who are lined up, she might be the only one they matched with in several days. So not only does this man have to win the lottery ticket to match with her, he now has to win a second ticket to win her interest, THEN he is expected to show up as the gentleman that puts her on a pedestal while having no flaws visible. Of course very few people could ever live up to that expectation. It's no wonder people get disappointed or falls into mental health issues. Still have to give some credits to Cecilia though, because she actually asked a few guy friends about the situation, most women (in my experience) don't.

I think it's something relatively new that happened in society, when I was young and single at the end of the 90s and the beginning of the 00s, I was often out in the pubs in Stockholm, both with a group of friends and alone, and it was completely natural just making small talk with those who happened to be around you, without having any intention of picking someone up, it was just nice to be social, met most of my best friends like that, but now everyone sticks to their clique, or stares in the cell phone, especially after the pandemic, it's a shame we can't meet and just talk to each other anymore

I am South African and I have a Swedish significant other. We are Gen X and I wonder if this is a generation thing because of the arrival of the internet and social media? Though to be fair, my significant and I did meet online in 2004 on a dating website, but we made sure to meet up in person as soon as possible and while he did display the Swedish stereotype characteristics, I'm a very bold, outspoken, warm, bubbly and compassionate person. He's always been painfully shy, but others have told me that I made him blossom and I also think that it helps that neither of us ever wanted kids (it's very difficult to raise kids in South Africa!). I think it also helps that he lived in other countries before he came to South Africa and because of the line of work that he's in, he's had far more exposure to all kinds of foreigners and foreign cultures than the average Swede back then. And YES, I did have to make the first move when it came to sex, hahahahahaha! But then again, I've always been the type of woman who made the first move if I saw that the guy was shy (they are shy over here in South Africa as well!), so it wasn't anything unusual for me to make the first move to make things happen. This year will be our 20th anniversary and I can honestly say that I could never have ended up with a South African guy. I just never imagined that it would be a Swedish guy, because I never gave the country of Sweden a thought until I met him! 🤣🤣🤣

13:15 Good point. Sondre from Norway also said that his grandma reminded him to "try before you buy". You can hear him on on Dating Beyond Borders Podcast too

If you decide you want a relationship with a man based on whether or not the sex was good, you will FAIL. That's like putting the chariot ahead of the horse. The reason why there is such a disconnect in current dating culture is because everyone is confused and no longer understand their place in the mating game. Whether we are aware of it or not, our behaviors have been shaped by thousands of years of mating practices, which are instinctual and subconscious. Men and women are drawn to what appeals to them, respectively. Fundamentally, we still act according to ancient biological and social patterns, even though modern society sends us a plethora of mixed messages. The girl in white is a bit brash, but she doesn't realize this. If I were a man, I would probably not want to date her. It's not because of her appearance, but because of her energy. A man will enjoy the opportunity of easy sex, but they will unlikely commit to women who are aggressive and indiscriminatory. If you make it easy for him to access your body, why should he try so hard to pursue you? He got what he wanted, you got what you wanted, and now you are making it too difficult for him. I am not saying that it's wrong to go for what you want as a woman. I am saying that it's not going to work for everyone, and perhaps there is a better way. I am saying it's logical that in scandinavia men have become so passive. Because the women have become too aggressive and give off such conflicting signals. I am latina and have never been going to bed with a man on a first date. Especially if I like a man, I wait and get to know him well. I respect myself and I respect him. If he wants me, he will show it, and I don't have to do anything special except be nice and make a safe space for him to advance if he wants to. He will know what to do. If a guy only wants easy sex, he will not stick around, and it's totally okay with me, because he's not my type anyway. I resided in Sweden, and for 12 years cohabiting with a Swedish partner, and we share a child. The relationship ended due to his alcoholism and intermittent binges, coupled with his refusal to seek assistance for quitting drinking. It was affecting our family life. I wouldn't prioritize dating another Swede, as they often seem to struggle with open emotional expression, which is why often they feel they need to drink to open up. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea; however, I'm currently interested in someone who isn't Swedish. The person I am with knows I am not an easy lay. We have been friends for some time and genuinely appreciate each other's company. Despite our long acquaintance, I have chosen not to become sexually involved, and he respects me for that. He knows how rare it is nowadays. I am traditional and unapologetic about it. I have no regrets. It works for me. I never slept with a man who dumped me after. In Sweden it's way too easy for men and women to have sex. It becomes meaningless and robotic. It's not special. And that doesn't work for me. I appreciate the gradual development of romance, the chivalry, and the process of getting to know someone on various levels, engaging in activities together that are not centered around sex, and building a friendship. Now residing in the USA, I find that men here can still be romantic. It's crucial, however, to be upfront about what you're seeking from the start and to have the patience to wait for it. Long-term relationships with men who are willing to do things for you are definitely achievable. It's not merely about expecting a man to do things for you; it involves reciprocating those actions, mutual respect, understanding that love has its highs and lows, and recognizing that the need for compromise is essential because a perpetual state of infatuation is unrealistic. Within a committed and loving relationship, sex can be so beautiful, powerful, exciting, mysterious, comforting, and very importantly, healing, but too many people treat it like a mere casual and unconscious mechanical body function.

Thank you Cecilia for talking to Marina. It's so good to hear my Scandinavian neighbor 🇸🇪🇳🇴 I should hang out in Sweden for MidSummer

It can go, and often has gone and does go, terribly wrong if you take cultural expectations of what men and women are supposed to behave like as signs of how they feel for you romantically. The harsh truth about dating anywhere in the world, Sweden included but not Sweden more than anywhere else, is that you take emotional risks doing so. You can be decieved in what you thought the other party meant with something, what you thought they felt for you, no matter how they expressed themselves, so don't make this about Swedes! I'm a Swede, I've been in happy relationships with other Swedes and with men from other parts pf the world too, and I have also been surrounded by couples in well-functioning relationships and my view of Swedish men is this: they are all different from eachother. Wow, what a surprise! Who would have thought! Of course, as anyone from the Northern hemisphere can probably feel, we need more emotional rest during the darker months of the year, and it IS hard to feel as passionately about anything in January as in July, but that doesn't make us into those flat cartoon people Marina described. Just see how passionate I am about not having my culture misrepresented, eh? Wink wink. I feel after watching this that Swedish men were done especially dirty, so here I come, to their defence! I have wonderful, loving, caring men all around me. These men surprise their partners, tell them how they feel about them, tell them when they have done something well, tell them they look good. They also do their share in the home and even if it has taken most of my lifetime, I can even see my boomer father starting to take responsibility for maintaining his and my mother's common friendships - buying birthday gifts, calling people up spontaneously etc. And just look at how proudly and confidently they show their love for their children, in a way you hardly see outside the Nordic countries! Swedish men as a group have nothing to be ashamed of, nothing they need to change - any specific Swedish man will of course have faults and issues he should work on, just like any specific man or woman in this world.

I tried to date Norwegians as gay. I come from central Europe. Sometimes I wonder if Norwegians really want to know someone. They are matching, but almost none responding to hi. Of course I have to write first, but got used to that. Those three whom I met were even nice, but it took a lot of effort from me to keep up conversation alive and make nice atmosphere. And it worked, but cost me a lot. They also expected that I will work on this relation, ask for everything etc. Not a single trace of initiative, emotions, interest, dedication. Nothing. Nothing more than ONS which I honestly hate. Brazilians are far better. Warm people, lot of topics to talk about, easy to make friends with, even if shy they are very open, iterested, dedicated on the same level as I am, without that discrete smell of superiority and contempt coming sometimes from Norwegians. Years ago I thought that southern people are too temperamental for me, Scandinavians are just in point, but you know what? After I treat my depression and anxiety disorder on therapy, I realized that typical Scandinavian attitude is literally opposite to that, what I like in people :) So my advice is therapy + Brazilians :)

I usually watch the video in its entirety before commenting, but considering the length, I'll just start writing (I have watched until 31 min). Let me first say I am not Swedish, Finnish, or Scandinavian in any way. I'm learning Norwegian and that as close as I am to any Scandinavian culture. I am a gay Black American young man, currently 24yrs old. I think the problem with this dating situation in Sweden (based on this video and Cecilia's shared experience via this video) is that society is simply changing. This could potentially be said about a plethora of "Western Countries". Gender norms, our collective idea's of femininity and masculinity, and how we are practicing these norms are in a transition period if you will. Most countries run on a patriarchal framework that makes men the primary holders of power, the figures in our governing classes, etc. which trickles down to leading the home, financially providing for his family, and "protecting" his family. The result of this is that women are put in a position to submit to men, a man's will, and take on a role of subservient actions as it relates to men and masculinity, hence why traditional gender roles are a thing. Our great grandparents, grandparents, and even some of our parents practiced and lived by these ideas whether by active choice or subconscious socialization. Present day (due to a lot of civil rights movements of the past, current media, and overall evolution of societal ways of thinking) we are now in a place where equality is very much on the rise and people do not know how to operate in that framework in terms of romantic relationships. It simply goes against what we are socialized to do as men, women, and people. This applies to Sweden (again based on what I am hearing rather that personal experience). Cecilia at 27:43 responding to Marina's question, says she knows it sounds hypocritical but she likes the equality in Sweden but still wants men to act traditional (in regard to paying on the first date). Marina (after Cecilia gives more context) asks why she feels that way at 29:33 to which Cecilia says more or less she would love to feel appreciation. My question for women who want it "both ways" (modern and traditional) is you want to feel appreciation based on what? Showing up to the date on time? Being dressed up on the date? I ask these questions not to be crass but to just show how this potentially sounds to modern men. Generally speaking in a modern day context, what have you as a woman done to expect a stranger to pay for you on the 1st, 2nd, or in some cases 3rd date? Men I'm sure do not want to be or feel used by a stranger based on her being a woman. Men also are going through this shift from traditional to modern along side women so I'm positive there are frustrations, concerns, and opinions on both sides. Even Marina's line of questioning a bit after or just her comments to add to the conversation are evidently traditional (which is not a bad thing). I think women who like modern gender norms with a touch of traditional need to find men who are going to agree to that dynamic, which seems like a very rare find. Or they will have to pick a relationship that is more or less completely traditional, especially if you expect a man to seduce, pursue you, pay for your meals and gifts, ect. All of those listed are traditional expectations...which means you as a woman will be expected to "fall in line" with idealized traditional femininity and be "submissive", become a stay at home mother, and let this man lead.

Thank you, Cecilia, your frankness, honesty and openmind is admirable and insightful on the dating/relationship culture and mindset in Swedish life. It's been an eye opener for me. Best wishes...

4:41 It's interesting that the American me2 Movement affects other countries too. Gosh....!

I enjoy life. I like nice women. Making things work well is my own responsibility. Without complaining, here are some fragments, not balanced, just a peek into the Swedish male side, to add to the picture you are painting: Quite often, both he and she learned from their mothers that men are bad. Men used to be afraid of rejection, now also of getting destroyed online or in court. Men's romantic or practical gestures very often get immediately criticized for not being good enough. Generous men hear "Do you think you can buy me?" (money is ugly in Sweden) Legally, good men lose their kids and their savings. Nice men respecting modern consent rules come off as unmanly. Men sometimes discover they have started dating a man identifying as a woman. Lots of Swedish men simply get used. I'm just throwing these fragments into the mix. Life is complex, nuanced, and can be viewed from different perspectives. Thanks!

Fitzgerald comes to mind: The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.

I think that many, both men and women, think it's perfectly okay to have casual sex with a new contact, and that both parties' expectations are reasonable in that situation, that it's a nice moment together without demands and expectations for something more in the future, you may continue to see each other just for sex, or become friends, or both, or never see each other again, or get married and have children, but everyone should be skeptical and beware if someone promises everything, and anything, just to get sex, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is

The parental leave is not as good as she says. I've been working with it so i know.

would love to speak on your podcast if you're looking for more guests. have (fortunately or unfortunately) a lot of interesting dating stories, experiences, and takes

We need another one with Swedish man as interviewee.

regarding the fact that one pays everything on a date, I would feel indebted and that there are expectations that I should pay back in some way, maybe in some way I don't want at all, if I am the one who paid everything, I feel that I owed the other, that I put the other in an unpleasant situation, so I would never propose something that I don't think both can afford, and expect both to pay for themselves.

13:07 Exactly! It's the very important point. This, among other things, is why I appreciate Swedish culture so much. For me it's not the issue of not getting sex (I can have a relationship without sex if the girl doesn't want sex), but the whole concept of seducing, luring a person with courtship or whatever - it's just unnatural to me. We are 2 free persons of equal right who choose to spend time together, because we like each other's company. If both want sex, there is sex. If not, then not. No problem ❤

Good, I'll give Sweden a visit then 😁

Well, I seek for that kind of society. Here in Brazil, or in the US, it’s all about having money, playing hard to get, status. People are dissimulated, I don’t like it very much.

I feel Swedish and German men are similar. As a woman, at least for me, you somehow want to feel WANTED. I need to know that a guy likes me. Isnt that for guys the same? I hate playing games. If you just want to hook up at least tell me so I can make my OWN decision to move on or engage in that. I dont like too passive guys because I dont own the guy anything in the sense that I am neither his mum, psychologist nor person to bring him out of his shell. A relationship to me is about setting intentions so you can at least set the intention to want to get to know this person, ask them things about them, be curious, you can also do that as a shy person. And if you have difficulties with that, at least set the intention to communicate that you are shy so the other person understands where you are coming from and then it might not come across as passive. Sorry, I dont have any excuses for passive behavior or bad communicators. I feel that a good relationship is about building each other up, how can you do that with a person that is not interested in engaging in a real conversation.... I honestly prefer to date men from Southern Europe or the USA. At least its easier to see through their games because they are more expressive in their opinions and you know what they are up to :D I feel with Swedes or Germans it is hard to understand their true intentions and that is never good in the dating world.

No, I am not the type of person to sleep with a stranger. Sex compatability is one thing and saying like get it out of the way first and then try the relationship, absolutely not. Sex can be worked on because you learn what your partner likes and dislikes, you have that conversation. Some people are great at it and some not but it can be improved upon. That is not how a relationship should be built upon just sex, no wonder sweden has such a high divorce rate. They like their safety net there but when it comes to relationships good lord its a disaster there. I was also listening to the model Iman and she says that the things that make a good relationship are absolutely the small things, so if a guy makes an omlete for you that is something that is fantastic and should be praised why not? Do you need to show it on social media no but if you want to then do it. Flowers are nice but that isn't important to me. if he makes me things, does small gestures for me those are the things I appreciate it more than flowers.

Sizu... Nice Finnish movie ..

Nice conversation, but you had enough Scandinavian women on, they are kind of repetitive at this point. It would be much more interesting to hear more perspective about dating from lesser known/smaller places…

Girls, you should give a chance to latin guys. Their vision of love will change forever.

39:51

Feminism is strong in sweden, so there are potentially serious consequences if you approcah a woman and she doesn't like you and accuse you of SA. If a guy engages in sex with a woman, and the woman regrets it after a while, he can be convicted of rape, even after a couple of years.

its cause you are all over 40 now you can't expect to be treated like you did when you were 20

Men: I am a provider Women: Okay provide Men: Gold digger Women: Okay , I will build up my career Men: You are masculine, no man wants an independent woman

Didn’t these people used to be VIKINGS???

this women is a feminist but want's a traditional man good luck with that

Terrible!

27:51 Thank you Cecilia for telling us what you really think. You're not hypothetical. It's biological. I hope that one day you'll find a good man to raise kids with you in Sweden. You're a good flicka.

76% of Bumble users are male (roast.dating) Men get on average 1 match out of 40 likes (roast.dating) We are constantly dealing with rejeciton which affects our confidence which is supposed to be high for women to find us attractive. We don't approach women through fear-of-rejection. It's also deeply-difficult when most women we like are involved in another relationship and we don't know what to do and often have to wait. We don't read subtle signs and need big posters in massive bullet points with a contract. We love paying but we also love fairness but if we are broke and not working it's deeply difficult and traumatic for men as we can't do our job to support others. It's hard to ascertain if a women is taking advantage of us and sex on a first date is something quite different to the uk. Men find it REALLY hard to read flirting techniques. At least I do.

I think it's something relatively new that happened in society, when I was young and single at the end of the 90s and the beginning of the 00s, I was often out in the pubs in Stockholm, both with a group of friends and alone, and it was completely natural just making small talk with those who happened to be around you, without having any intention of picking someone up, it was just nice to be social, met most of my best friends like that, but now more everyone sticks to their clique, or stares in the cell phone, especially after the pandemic, it's a shame we can't meet and just talk to each other anymore