Amen

Yep, very sad as alot of them were really nice funny people

When is someone going to do a video on the curse of working on Babylon 5 (because so many of the actors have died)?

@@danpetitpas Not exactly a curse since some died due to old age/natural causes. Jeff Conaway died due to years of drug abuse.

@@demons27 Mira Furlan's death hit me the hardest when I found out she died from West Nile virus. I was like "seriously, who dies from West Nile in California?". She was very attractive and one of the classiest actresses I can think of.

Not to mention Claudia Christian and Jerry Doyle also battled alcohol issues. JMS navigated all these health issues WAY before current practices we now consider common.

and then conversely you have Rick Berman, destroying one of the greatest love stories in scifi, running out one of the best actresses in scifi, and killing off one of the best characters in scifi. fuck, with all possible disrespect, Rick Berman.

@@skoltrollkallamik4450 Yes did way better than Joss Whedon for sure!

@@this.is.a.username Berman is an arrogant asshole plain and simple. Always has been. For me he's one of the big reasons later Trek doesn't hold a candle to B5.

@@this.is.a.username what actress?

The ambassadors were brilliant actors. Made the whole thing.

true you rooted for him but knew he was going to step the wrong way in the end. was all the actors doing too, that and they had fun, which is why it seemed well made. if i remember correctly the main cast by the end of season one had become kind of like family. which made it even better when they went at each other...especially londo and g'kar. poor bruce got stuck with playing middle man in season two. but he did seem to jump right in and gave as good as he got. all in all it was well done on a small budget.

@@correlfreehand9454 I love how well thought through and suprising the show is. HUGE SPOILER: We see G'Kar kill Londo in a vision in Season 1. I always assumed this was G'Kars final revenge. When we get to it at the very end of the show (I think it was in one of the movies even, I don't remember), it is a service to his old friend to free him from the grasp of the Shadows. Such a brilliant twist.

@@larsmanstanding434 i think it was in the beginning of season 1. probably others who have it on dvd or streamed it recently might know better. since i only saw it on the first run through. but yeah the stoeytelling was way out there and made you think. there were some where it felt like you had seen it before in an earlier episode.

@@crhu319 - Londo, G’Kar, Delenn - couldn’t agree more. They made the show.

It is almost impossible to watch one episode a week!

Maybe it's just me but I have discovered that even though nowadays I can binge episodes of a show I really like, I enjoy the anticipation of spacing them out. The max I can consistently enjoy is an episode a day.

Everybody knew back then - when Bab5 is on, nobody talks to me. 😁I often met with my friends afterwards to discuss the episode, but I had to watch it alone to take it fully in. Haven't done this with a show since then. Andor came close though.

I watched it originally in real time. Then they did a marathon on TV, which I recorded. Then I watched it again and saw some stuff I didn't remember. Third time was the charm. I was especially interested in the two different episodes from different perspectives about Babylon 4.

I watched DS9 in its 1st airing, and that was full of challenges: -After a few seasons, CTV stopped showing it in Canada (in favour of Star Trek Voyager) , so I had to watch it on the local ABC affiliate from Plattsburgh. -The ABC signal was weaker, so the video quality was worse; especially when compared to Voyager. -Later seasons, it had no consistent timeslot. -Internet was still new and I didn't yet explore fandom sites, so I could only discuss it with real-life sci-fi friends; most of whom didn't watch DS9.

Well yeah I also watched both. DS9 had certainly a bigger budget on special effects. What B5 made special was the x-file vibe and those ancient aliens. B5 wanted to be more rooted but what many not liked to much was in this world humanity as a society made no progress more the opposite was the case wich was the root for some drama in the story but was also very alien for sci-fi fans at least in this time.(since the late 2000s it became much darker) DS9 also tried to be more edgy . DS9 'problem' was the Prophets and their double role as aliens and religious entities combined with their supernatural existence was also something very alien to Star Trek . From this view point make it darker + mysterious aliens + the story arc structure all this got copied too

Both were great shows but Babylon 5 still wins hands down.

ups I over saw one both shows ended with the MC joining 'the mysterious aliens' DS9 I watch way later then it aired for me it was the weakest Star Trek series. There was no clear mission the the beginning . Only during the dominion war was it clear

Word!

I love them both!

Greatest sci-fi series of all time, huh?

I believe so too. The female characters were well written so a sci-fi show. I tell people if you want to see how to write characters.

The cast was very talented. Given great scripts, the likes of G'Kar and Londo were riveting to watch develope.

B5 was one of a kind, real magic.

where did you find it? I've been looking. Back in the day, I choose DS9, but am curious.

I remember when JMS was developing it and hawking it on Usenet before it was even shown. Dude had a vision, and much more respect for his fans and the power they held than any 'Hollywood' exec, especially nowadays. Certain Disney overpaid hemorrhoids could take lessons.

Walter Koenig was pretty much an extra on ST but he was much BESTer on B5.

I think the same thing happened for the prototype Space Shuttle in 1976. STTOS fans wrote to NASA and got the prototype named Enterprise. Write and keep on writing to convince why it should be done. 😄😄

@@JRcomments The way one moment he could charm you then the next being a reincarnation of an Nazi SS officer. That was incredible, you love to hate him and hate to love him.

Combined with the possibility that he was seeing imaginary people and things on set that weren’t part of the script, and maybe having trouble keeping track of actor vs character vs stand-in for CGI character vs hallucination. And the filming order and airing order weren’t quite the same. You can maybe see O’Hare progress-both ups and downs-if you compare the eps in production order. It must’ve been really rough for him. 😢

@@natbarmore Just imagine what it must have felt like looking at all those people dressed up like aliens while having onset schizophrenia. 😓

I have been watching the B5 series several times in the past 30 years and still there are times when I pick up something new I never caught before. Watching the recent reactions have pointed out a few things. This show has the best rewatchability. The gift that keeps on giving.

There was one scene where Sinclair thought he was hallucinating and it was very sad.

@@glennhubbard5008which scene?

But Babylon 5 did have kids sometimes, and they turned out-oh. Oh no.

@@brianalice Shon. Such a nice kid and very cute.

@@brianalice in his foundation interviews JMS pretty much said the only time he let kids be on screen is if he planned on having them die.

That could have been for Capt Power and Soldiers of the Future.

@@edwarddeguzman3258 No. _Captain Power_ had aired a few years earlier, and I had loved that. The flyer *was* specifically for _Babylon 5._ I wasn't old enough to understand how the club received the flyer, I just know we did. We also saw test footage and demos from NewTek's Video Toaster and Lightwave 3D - the software they were proposing to use for the visual effects at that time.

Me too. I taped nearly every episode, except "the dark night of Londo Mollari" which I somehow missed. The tapes got ditched when I bought the series on DVD, although I still have some on VHS which I purchased. One of my all time favorite shows of any genre, along with the original Battlestar Galactica which I grew up with.

@nealcorbett1149 I missed that one season 4 episode where the White Stars take on the Earth Alliance/Shadow fleet and Ivanova gets messed up. They didn't air it again in syndication, so I had to wait til it aired on TNT.

We missed it in the 90's but are watching now. So good!

"If you value your lives, be somewhere else."

Negative. We have authority here. Don't force us to engage your ships! Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with the Minbari fleet. He is behind me, you are Infront of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else!

This is the White Star Fleet. NEGATIVE..on surrender. We will NOT stand down. *WHO IS THIS? identify yourself!* Who am I?! I am Susan Ivanova. Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the RIGHT HAND of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your SORRY ass back to Earth, by god. I am Death Incarnate. And the last living thing that you are EVER going to see. GOD sent Me. [can of Whupass opens] 🤯

I started re-watching last week having last seen B5 in its original airing. With significant memory decline in my older years, most of what I remember and am exited about now is that there will be lots of foreshadowing, and characters are complex and can change for better or worse... much like real life.

@@wongkit9579 Insert comedic looney tunes running noise as EA fleet turns tail and run.

​@@draco949 oh snap! I'm gonna go watch it now!

@@brianalice yes, with ads.

Hell yeah!!!! Hbomax is just dumb. They like losing money like Disney.

​@@BardWannabe You could say the show is more authentic now considering the ads give it that true 90's experience.

HBO dropped it??? Had been meaning to rewatch it and I hate commercials. This sucks.

The Star Fury is widely considered one of the most realistic space combat ships in sci-fi history, in particular to how it moves and operates (Space Dock did a whole ep on it). Also- I bought the soundtracks back in the day, loved Christopher Frank's work on the show (why they didn't use him for Crusade, I have no idea). Also-also- The show had a lot of interesting blink-and-you'll-miss-it moments that show the finer touches of world building. In one ep, Londo lies dying on a table ("The Long Night of Londo Molari") and Dr. Franklin has to use a defibrillator on him to restart his heart. When they tear open his shirt, you can momentarily see Londo's, er, tentacles exposed, since Centauri, while appearing human, are actually akin to anime tentacle monsters.

Just a minor note to NASA's purchase, JMS made them promise that the vehicles would be called Star Furies. :)

The NASA bought the Starfury's blueprints?! Pretty hard to do since there are none. Not even in the various tech manuals. Would have been useless if there were any since they would have involved materials and techniques unknown to science. The best that happened is that the NASA expressed an interest in the design and JMS said use it, keep the name.

Thats what happens when you have the Jet Propulsion Lab on board as tech consultants. Even the data crystals they used in the show were based on real world tech/theories.

@@bensaret At the time JMS and Copeland thought that they needed a new sound for the new show that will explore different alien worlds and cultures. I didn't mind it and I still have Evan H. Chen's Crusade CD (released by Christopher Franke's company so there wasn't any bad blood there) and I occasionally even listen to it. It's very avantgarde and atonal, but I'm sure Chen would've grown into his soundtrack role more if the show would have continued.

I still judge science fiction TV on DS9 and B5 as the gold standard. Only thing remotely close was the BSG reboot, but it feels like a much smaller world to the galaxy spanning epics the other two shows told. I'm glad JMS didn't sue Paramount, having both shows really pushed the standards and kept the writers on their toes.

@@marcdigiambattista751 - BSG reboot was great too! The only thing that’s come close in recent years is The Expanse.

@@marcdigiambattista751 BSG is hella overrated for the simple fact during the first 2 seasons it floated on plotlines from the original BSG show, then it fell apart as they ran out of things to rip off. Not to mention so many of the stylistic changes in Nubsg were directly taken from both Space above and Beyond(1995-1996), and the original 1996 film Independence Day(I promise you watch bsg pilot and independence day, it's the exact same feel).

@@sirrathersplendid4825 I hate to be that guy, but the expanse is just a rip off of the Grand Tour by Ben Bova, only the Expanse is far more depressing and shitty.

@@dixonhill1108 - I dunno. Aside from some really dreadful acting in The Expanse by a certain diversity hire actress it was really quite entertaining. Rare to find SciFi these days that suspends my disbelief long enough to enjoy it. Not watched it all yet though: it might get worse.

Without it, we wouldn't have the TV we have today

I still giggle when you consider, trek gave us mobile phones and B5 gave us USB's.

I came to the comments to add this very thing. Did it add much to the series? Not really. Was is it promising to have more Babylon 5? Absolutely! It gave me hope that more was on the way, alas, it was not meant to be. For the detailed story (and a great read about the rest of his interesting life) read Straczynski's "Becoming Superman: My Journey from Poverty to Hollywood."

It's some of the best and bravest sci fi we've seen!

The Lost Tales had some great Spaceship VFX.

JMS is working on two B5 projects, one with the remaining old cast is basically finished and the other one being a reimagination waiting to be greenlit by the studio.

I don't know if this show's reboot will ever make it to tv, since the CW hasn't picked up the pilot episode, and with HBO MAX dropping a lot of content from its lineup, this new show should go to a network that would care about it, because, look for an example, the Magnum reboot got cancelled by CBS, but NBC brought it back to life with two new seasons. So, any network that really cares about nurturing a series, instead of only caring about ratings would be a good home for the B-5 reboot.

@@Bushprowler Not gonna happen (the latter at least). WBD dropped the hammer on everything

HBO Max had done an HD remaster of the series and movies. They dropped it.

@@CantankerousDave HBO Max cancelled and removed a ton of original shows from their service after their parent company Warner merged with Discovery because of good old corporate greed. They can claim it as loss on their taxes, don't have to pay creators and in the end you're paying more for less. Everybody except for some people on the top got screwed. HBO Max was a success and they're stripping it for parts. Piracy became very attractive again.

DiTillio and JMS actually have a loooooong history, having worked on most of the same SatAM shows in the 80s, and then going on to make Captain Power together, before B5.

Mr. DiTillio was very important for my childhood masters of the universe He-man and the 2002 reboot

Larry DiTillio wrote some of the most infamous B5 episodes.

I remember seeing his name a lot as a leading writer from my youth as a big He-Man fan. Him and JMS wrote most of the Eternian lore for the series and were instrumental in establishing the sister world of Etheria for the follow-up series She-Ra as well.

It is so good! We're near the end of the second season and can feel it really picking up!

It’s one of the few shows that I feel got consistently better as it went on… Well, except for season 5, which had a lot of great episodes and moments but was dragged down by the entire telepath saga which didn’t get as much development as it should have in season 4 because of the need to conclude the Shadow War and the Rebellion against Earth plots (and Byron was a weak character IMO-too much Vidal Sassoon, not enough time actually doing anything useful for his faction beyond being prejudiced against normals like a discount male model version of Magneto). However, even the weakest episodes of Babylon 5 are still better than most shows.

Oh yeah, I have bee saying for years that G’kar and Londo are up there for being the most noted couples in TV Fiction. I don't just mean of syfy, but of any TV show that lasted more then one ep as a whole.

Vicariously watching through your friend's eyes is the next best thing to seeing it for the first time.

His budget maximizing tactics are honestly awe inspiring

@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime It's all or nothing, you have to be good enough to make up for the fact you're making a soap opera.

Trek is basically the opposite in that sense. If you see the writer's room, from the DS9 documentary, trying to continue the show, it's a bunch of writers throwing random ideas at the wall to see what sticks. And you want me to believe those guys spontaneously had the notion of creating a year-long story arc? Yeah, right. I also find it very suspicious that no Trek executive or writer can even acknowledge B5 existed, 30 years later.

That huge spoiler wasn't in the original broadcast version of The Gathering. It was an addition made to the Special Edition of The Gathering that was commissioned by TNT after season 4.

We were so disappointed with Midnight on the Firing Line because there was no Takashima! Little did we know we had the greatest XO of all time replacing her.

If you haven't watched the Expanse, give it a go. Different vibe from Babylon 5, but extremely well done modern scifi.

@@minizimi3790 The Expanse is one of B5's babies.

The Great Maker gave the Great Bird of the Galaxy a beautiful eulogy.

"And I was especially pleased the DS9 situation was addressed tastefully (i.e., noting what the studio knew and did vs what the showrunners knew)." Fully agreed. The title of this video was kind of click-baity -- it's what drew me here, to be honest -- but looking through the video, I'm pleased that it doesn't make the usual questionable claims about DS9 being a ripoff. And I've seen the lists; they have to twist the truth like a balloon animal to make their case. For example, it's said that both DS9 and B5 guard a space portal, but that's not true at all. DS9 guards the wormhole, yes, and it is a unique phenomenon that a hundred worlds would love to control. But the jump gate near B5 was constructed exactly so that people could get to B5 easily, because that's how space travel works in B5; the B5 jump gate has no intrinsic value. To say that the two are essentially the same thing is just dishonest. And my favorite bad claim is that both series had widower captains, therefore DS9 ripped off B5. I defy anyone to study the B5 Bible that Paramount is alleged to have seen, and find any trace of the widower captain. Any takers ... ? Well let me spoil the matter: B5 was never supposed to have a widower captain; Sheridan was introduced only after Sinclair unexpectedly left the show. How could DS9 have ripped off an element that B5 never intended? BTW, let me take a guess at something here. We know that Sheridan's wife showed up again as a puppet of the Shadows. How would things have played out if Sinclair had stayed on the show for the entire series? Well, recall that his girlfriend was a space explorer / archaeologist. I bet the plan was for there to be an expedition on some remote planet where everyone was killed, no bodies recovered. But that of course would allow for the girlfriend's later return, but as a Shadow puppet. (Not to be confused with a shadow puppet.) Anna Sheridan being pre-dead simply expedited the matter, rather than having to introduce her and then "kill her off".

@@kingbeauregard Yep Sakai would of been in the Anna position, I mean we had G'kar outright warn her of going to certain places and the risks, clearly a setup for Sakai to end up a Shadow servant.

just reading that list makes me sad, because of the names that SHOULD of been there.

Yes it was on 6pm on a Sunday for a couple of seasons then chanel 4 hid it up during the week airing it at 1am

Peak sci fi! So very good

I was in the UK also and taped it religiously, even jumping up to stop the tape when the ad breaks came on! It was about the only thing I watched on TV at the time (besides TNG - there wasn't a lot of sci-fi stuff on at the time). Insanely, I never even got around to rewatching most of those tapes as technology moved along to replace them...

jms and Majel B. Roddenberry deliberate built bridges for the fans.

I was at a Creation convention that had both commander actors there. Avery Brooks and Michael O’Hare. It was after the first seasons

@@miller-joel Honestly I look back and I CANNOT see anyone else pulling off Lady Morella so well.

Watching along with a podcast is a great way to rewatch. We're still on our first first watch but am already eager for the rewatch

Ah, The Gathering.

Part of what made it so brilliant is that they kind of snuck in the fact it was serialized.

The line was: "We're not just some deep space franchise! We MEAN something!" Which is an even deeper burn, LOL

@@jasonblalock4429 Thanks. It's been a while and I couldn't remember the quote exactly.

@@jasonblalock4429 No, "We are not some deep space franchise. This station is about something."

Ivonava commenting on some skank that sheridan is taking to bed, going where every man has gone before

@@DeclanOReilly He was not taking her to bed.

It is so much more realistic. So much of it could totally happen in the future...and is ACTUALLY happening today...

Do it!!! Watch it!

That original PTEN block was appointment television back in the day.

I recommend giving it a go again, if you're at all interested. We're watching for the first time and are blown away at how it is growing and how powerful some of the episodes are

I had high hopes for the post B5 setting after In the Beginning was SO good. But yeah the rest were...uneven.

I don’t think Crusade was really given the time it needed to develop its story. It felt to me like it was following the same structure as B5, where the first season was there to establish the status quo and the true meat of the story would come later. It was definitely a style shift, the inverse of Star Trek in going from focusing on a station to focusing on a wandering ship, and so there were going to be growing pains associated with that.

Yeah, had to wrap up the civil war arc in case the series did end with season 4.

It's a tragedy that season 4 had to be retooled. It made it just about the best season of any show, but pushed all the leftover B-plots into a disappointing season 5. 😢

B5 when full on Religion, Philosophy, and war throughout it storytelling. DS9 drip its toe into such matter then drop until they were episodes center plot, even then it was minimal and blunt, likely being formulated into episodes but it explode more that TNG wasn't able. Still enjoy both show

it's G'Kar. not J'Kar.

We're still early in our first time watch, but the combo of Londo and G'Kar is unmatched!

@@Babylon5FortheFirstTime Haha! Your in for a treat! It’s quite a ride! Be interested to hear your thoughts once you reach the conclusion. :)

Encounter suit.

Just remember you have to talk in puzzling ways and make comments that make little sense.

I had heard the war was supposed to go through the first half of season 5, so it was more like the last half a year of plot had to be stretched into a full season. It was pretty clear that a telepath rebellion of some kind was going to happen in season 5; I don’t know why they didn’t make it bigger when they had more time.

I think the season 4 episode where Sheridan is captured and interrogated/tortured by the Earth forces was originally going to be the final episode of season 4, with season 5 beginning with Sheridan's escape and concluding with the battle for Earth. When Straczynski found out he wasn't going to be getting a season 5, he moved the interrogation episode back and squeezed in the battle for Earth at the end of Season 4. I am not sure if the telepath revolt was going to be part of the original series or something Straczynski came up with to flesh out an unexpected season 5 though.

@@splifftachyon4420 Yep, that's the version I read as well. I'm pretty sure it was somewhere in the Lurker's Guide. And it makes sense; the torture episode would have made for a *brutal* end-of-season cliffhanger. And I believe the telepath rebellion stuff was always intended for Season 5, because he had wanted to do some sort of spinoff about the Telepath Wars. IIRC, that was the original plan for the proposed theatrical film.

Season 5 did not contain any new plot beyond what was in the original plan for year 5 but after almost being cancelled they had finished the Earth war quickly to work that story in there. After season 5 was announced JMS had to take the material for the back half of the season and stretch it out for the full season. It’s easy to see why the whole season was so thin on story but JMS did the best he could with what he had. Mad respect for him.

Essentially this is correct. JMS had enough advance warning of PTEN shutting down that he was able to truncate the end of the Earth Civil War arc into series 4 and stick Sleeping in Light on the end. As other repliers have mentioned, if he'd been able to stick to the plan as it stood the series 4 finale would have been Sheridan being betrayed by Garibaldi and captured, with the series 5 opener being the interrogation episode. Like the Shadow War in series 4 he planned to conclude the Civil War early enough in series 5. If this had happened the back half of series 5 would have been much like how it ended up on TV, but the telepath arc would have been initially mixed in with the Civil War - Byron and his followers would arrive on Babylon 5 during the war. If Claudia Christian hadn't left the show, Ivanova would be drawn to Byron because he represented an alternative to the Corps and to evade her grief over Marcus' death and she would have been in Lyta's role during that part of the arc while Lyta would rise to be an extremist in the aftermath - remaining true to Byron's cause even after everyone else was dead or had rejected him.

Watch the youtube channel spacedock, their they appreachiate that

No nose cone. No wings. No shields. No superweapons. DEFINITELY No smegging mecha transformations. Just good ol' thrusters attached to a hexagonal pod with enough missiles to get the job done. One of the most distinctive space fighter jets in all of Sci-fi.

Like he said, they were leaving a lot of potential content out of the episode.

@@NebLleb Also no ignoring the Newtonian Laws of Motion.

no matter what her and ivonava scary...although delenn's deliver being cold has always sent a chill down the back. ivonava's just makes me think...okay somebody screwed up big time...we get to see something go boom!

I was the same. Couldn't carve the time, was put off by the effects. Just came to it in the last year and wish I had watched it sooner

Yeah, I instantly went, "They're bringing back the Vorlons!" before realizing my mistake.

Remember Species 8472? I wonder where that idea came from...

@@miller-joel Species 8472 was a fantastic addition especially as the organic technology - their ships were grown from adapted DNA of their own species like the Vorlon and Shadows - was a definite nod in B5's direction. I enjoy watching first time reactions to B5 on KZfaq and it still looks fresh and full of firsts in terms of sci-fi story telling, even after 25 years.

@@Kian2002 A "nod," huh?

Same here!!! We are really enjoying it

I hope you have a wonderful time-though that’s pretty much a guarantee with this show!

To qoute Sheridan, abso fraggin lotuley.

The Munsters and the Addams Family

Funny thing about that, whenever I see Koenig's name the first character I think about is Bester. If you're going for great actors, there's Katsulas. He brought G'Kar to life.

@@JLAvey Wow that's interesting considering he is best known for playing Pavel Chekov on Star Tek TOS and the TOS feature films. I didn't watch Babylon 5 or DS9 when they aired because they were too boring. Even if I had watched Babylon 5 Koenig would have still been Chekov to me. He was Chekov before he was Bester. When he passes away news reporters covering the story will refer to him as the actor best known for playing Pavel Chekov in the 1966 Star Trek television series.

Overall I lean just slightly towards DS9 (my favorite Star Trek series), but B5 has the distinction of essentially standing alone (with Crusade aborted early and the rest as stand-alone movies) and not being just a piece of a larger franchise. Agree Garak is one of the most appealing characters in DS9. If you haven’t yet, get the DS9 novel “A Stitch in Time” written by Andrew Robinson himself. You’ll love it.

​@@JoRoq1Thank you for the tip. Will look for it this weekend 😊👍

Green vs Purple! Lmfao just saw the episode where Ivonuva goes to a Frazier cultural party wearing her green sash. At the end of the episode she staffers out of the room wasted and frazzled Such great story and chatacters

Ah yes, Londo's three wives: Pestilence, Famine, and Death.

I think "fasten or zip" might be the moment I fell in love with this show

@@erikgorn PURPLE!

Paramount stopped plagiarizing after the series finale.

It's misleading, he pitched the show as basically a star trek show and was surprised they ripped him off. It's the part people always leave out.

@@dixonhill1108 A show planned 5 years in advance based on a space station was the OPPOSITE of a "Star Trek show."