Please be sarcastic please be sarcastic please be sarcastic

Shit you broke that down pretty clear too

I agree when I push up vertically I always hurt my shoulder

Was gonna say that! sin 45° = cos 45° = 1/√2

🤓

I was wondering as well...I think in the end it all boils down to coaching cues where you try to build a mental image in your athlete that will translate in body dynamics, which are part unconscious and part conscious but informed by proprioception et enteroception. In summary, a way to transform raw mathematical mechanics into organic feelings and actions. Instead of saying leg drive, I think JM emphasizing an intention of rolling the skin of your back on the bench, which eventually translates to the same stabilization. Same with the bar path, by definition the bar eventually has to go back above the shoulder joint at some point, but it might be a matter of explicitly cueing a path that leads there (hook, J curve, diagonal, whatever depending on your school) versus saying "just press as straight as you can from the lowest chest contact as you can" and eventually the bar has to reach that point above the glenohumeral joint, even if you didn't explicitly ask for it. Long winded point but that's how I make sense of all these conflicting cues from various schools/coaches who all displayed demonstrable feats...

@@anthonymarconi761 I completely agree that sometimes different cues could be leading to the exact same outcome, it all depends on the coach's approach. However if we look at some data analysis on Bench Press bar path (the graph that almost every strength athlete has seen) we see that the more advanced the lifter is and the heavier the load, the more of a horizontal bar path there is. And I agree with you that, no matter where you touch the bar, it will always end up right over the shoulder joint where it started, but it seems JM is trying to minimize horizontal travel of the bar. if not eliminated completely, by increasing the arch, also the wider the grip on bar the less horizontal travel is needed. Also his approach to Leg drive is, again, based on physics, trying to "bench with your legs" and creating a force that transfers up into the shins, then back into the hips, then into the spine, then travel again upwards into the arms, doesnt make a lot of sense to him, i think he feels like the legs are there to stabilize you, but are not actively involved in the lift, on a side note my Floor Press max and my bench max have always been the same, no matter how much I try to utilize my legs on bench, so either there is something to it, or I just suck at utilizing my legs. All n all it is extremely interesting to see how different coaches, utilizing different approaches and techniques can get different athletes to an elite level. Always loving these videos and how they make one think.

n(sample size)=1

@@joseph13990 totally agree with you. In the end much rests on the interaction of the coach and the athlete, and the physical and mental make-up of said athlete. There's exact maths, physics on one side...then there's fuzzy biology - not derogatory, I'm biologist myself 😅 - and psychology on the other side. It's like in bodybuilding, you have the super high volume lower weight camp, and the limited volume super heavy camp (I'm simplifying, but you know what I mean), and both philosophies produced super successful specimens... 🤷🏻‍♂️

@@anthonymarconi761 exactly, Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates fall on one side and Tom Platz on the other. I believe all programs produce results, some more efficient than others, but it's the mental and recovery aspect that has the most affect on the outcome, and I think an even greater factor is whether or not the athlete is actually enjoying the program and process.

Yes, this should see every teacher in the world, then he knows how to teach.😅

I am confued as well. But what he explained makes sense to me that straight bar path is more effective than the tradiional j bar path

True i dont know

I feel like when you move diagonally the leg drive becomes important, so that maybe why most people prefer a diagonal pattern. When you move in a straight path leg drive becomes less important. Julius Maddox, JHo, and some of the most elite raw benchers of all time preach diagonally, take it for what its worth I guess.

It's irrelevant, unless you can arch like a 110 lb female. At a certain point, it's just not practical for most of us. His math is also nonsensical. You don't lose half of your total bench press strength by pressing at a 45 degree angle, because it doesn't take equal energy to move weight horizontally and vertically. Sure, in theory, a straight bar path is more efficient. But this doesn't take biomechanics into account. It's just physics. But we're not machines. We weren't designed specifically to bench press. For 99% of us, pressing up and back is 100% necessary and very efficient. Some of these guys think they've got it all figured out. Take it all with a grain of salt.

J curve is more ideal as he started to say gravity is only vertical but unlike what he said since it is only vertical energy is not lost wasted by moving horizontally. We move horizontally so that we can get more muscle tissue collapsing in on itself then you want to bench back toward the rack in a j fashion so you can get as much of the lift done as possible before reaching our biomechanical sticking point

😂😂 I was thinking the same thing

You learned the correct way

Excellent question

True But my point is that ANY forces ( regardless of manufactured examples) that do not push UP DIRECTLY AGAINST GRAVITY are lost in the adventure of lifting the bar. Exact forces are not needed nor are formulae to understand what I'm saying. Were you actually confused or are you just seeking a nit to pick?

@@j.m.blakley4126 As I understand your message, it's that one should make effort to get in position that allows for the straightest path possible. My addition was that in some cases (such as lack of mobility for ex.) attempting to press straight up may be compromising more important stuff. And horizontal bar movement acts only against bar's inertia, not gravity; so it is not as much force "lost" while the gain may be worth it for some. ✌

Thx

Success is NOT the arbiter of truth. See my YT channel for an explanation of why success does not equal correct.

Pushing towards the face feels more natural and powerful.

Exactly

success may not equal correction, but with as many lifters as we have in the world, that big of a subject pool, the best technique will rise to the top. Although it is not the main driver in the bench, the shoulders do play a role, which is also why a J curve allows them to be in a more advantageous position. Using JM's math here on the angle of pushing, the triceps should be completely vertical at lockout. As he repeatedly states, any horizontal movement is wasted movement. So, unless your shoulder are 100% directly under your touch point, then you need to flex the humerus to have your triceps vertical for optimal pushing. The optimal leverage for all the muscles involved in the bench press does not produce a vertical line.

@@DrAlexStrahle Nailed it. This is why you can press straight in a decline bench, shoulders are directly below the bar.

Shorter range of motion, can be tighter, and more activation from the pecs is most likely why.

he said it was half in the video which is 250 which is incorrect

Yeah, what he says only makes sense if you can arch to such an extreme degree that your shoulder joint lines up directly under your natural touch point. It's nonsense.

Yes and a to big arch is not really good if your goal is to build muscle, because your range of motion is to short. But for powerlifting is a big arch very good.

@@elgringo2852 well, these guys are powerlifters, so...

If the bar ends up over your shoulders it is an invitation for the elbows to flare and that is bad, bad, bad for them. Ill do a video someday. Next, if you are serious about DEVELOPMENT as opposed to strength, you should eschew the bench press in favor of deep wide DUMBELL WORK. And lastly, the wheelhouse I competed in WAS INDEED powerlifting. But ( at least) some of what I say applies to all forms of bench because it is good mechanics with a penchant for safety.

And what records do u have ?

@@themfnnitrorooster7619 haha don’t like physics 101?

I don't know of anyone that benches in a 45 degree angle. But instead of using math, let's try trigonometry. If you have 600 lbs of weight and you are benching with an angle of 45 degrees, the resulting force vector to thrust the weight up would be 848 lbs (600/sin 45). Now, if you bench with 0 degree angle the same amount of weight, the resulting force vector would be equal to 600 lbs (600/sin 90). In other words, you have to generate way more force at an angle than straight up. Notice that I said force but I neglected the acceleration aspect (but at this point, you get the idea).

You're trying to undermine the concept by attacking numbers he made up off the top of his head during a simple explanation lol

@@ADAPTATION7 Trigonometry is mathematics brother, mathematics plays into pretty much everything.

500up bs 500 down is a math equasion. 500 take away 500 leaves what? They cancel each other.

@@j.m.blakley4126 Thanks J.M.

@@TurnTheStoveOnBlaze What is erroneous about this my man?

Because of gravity my man. 500lbs of weight with 500lbs of force will not move it up because you are fighting against gravity as well.

There's a difference between moving the bar with intent and moving it as fast as possible and actual speed work. He probably means that you want to move the bar as fast as possible during your regular bench work.

@@jasperm.8093 but moving the bar as fast as possible for your regular benching wouldnt speed work aid in your regular benching?

"if what you say is true, you will have gained my trust" i was thinking this too cause i've seen too many other reputable coaches teach the up and back way of pressing with the moment arm and all that.

It is for competitive lifters. It is just efficient.

Not at all, you need to press back aggressively in a shirt

Pressing in a straight line is not more for equipped lifting. Most shirts (at least modern ones) favor pushing back slightly towards the rack. And I’m 99.9% confident that JM has benched more than 468 raw. Maybe not in a competition, but the dude was benching near 700 pounds back when shirts provided very little carryover

@@davidmb3376 bang on.

They are training to put a bigger number in powerlifting meet

Playing devil’s advocate - if you’re lifting by yourself, how do you bail on decline barbell press. With the flat you can do the roll of shame.

Great point

@@yanwain9454 🤣😂

That manipulation was to shield the wrosts from some stress. It should work fine on overhead. But thevsame " elbows flaring caveat" must be countered. Im not familiar enough with the overhead press as a max lift to say for certain. Maybe a compromise? ( I did military press 405 for a triple once. Full range to the neck. Nothing excessive, but for a young kid it was a real kick. It is a fond menory.

@@j.m.blakley4126 thank you for the thoughtful reply. It is much appreciated!

Matt Wenning

If U don't feel it in you chest then that's ok. It's powerlifting. Not body building. The whole idea of body building is to feel it in your chest. The idea of lifting weights or powerlifting is getting the most amount of weight up in the most efficient manner

I agree. You are going to sacrifice leg drive for ROM when you arch this much.

Go flat footed if you can’t get power

There is no leg drive.

I had the same issue and I realized it was because I was set up on my toes rather than the balls of my feet. I fixed that and felt a lot more stable and powerful

Yes. You are limiting the range of motion to be able to lift the most amount of weight. It doesn't give you the best stretch nor does it build functional strength., not that bench press normally translate to any advantages in daily life anyway. :)

@@Zolpi1234 These 2 can BARELY breath and are standing there giving "fitness tips" 🤣🤣🤣

@@sideskroll Bro the advice in this vid is for power, not for fitness. It's solid advice if one wanna compete or pad his ego with the most amount of weight moved. For building muscle overall, hypertrophy, aesthetics etc, this is not it. But to each his own.

@@Zolpi1234 Still, its not a "real" full bench.... Just like kipping pullups...

@@sideskroll What even is a real bench? The equivalent to a kipping pullup would be bouncing the bar, because you're adding momentum. They are shortening the range of motion. The bar does touch the torso and the arms does lock out, unlike a half pullup as example, where you don't get your chin above the bar or don't start with arms fully extended. So by competition or powerlifting standards, it's a full rep. If people are competing there has to be rules that are well defined, applies to everyone and promotes fair play. You have to be allowed to arch in a bench, because how else would it be ruled if a lift is OK nor not? People have different natural archs and someone would have to get a protractor for every single lift and measure the angle of the body. Highly impractical. And since arching cant be banned, it has to be utilized to get the best possible advantage to lift the most weight. What they teach has a purpose, it's just not for you, or me.