😂

"Good morning!" "Bad morning to you"

[Bad] "game design" has turned into a meaningless buzzword on this channel. It was applied so many times to Tightened Thrice, Sindacco Chronicles and this mod that it lost most of its meaning (and mind you, all of those mods were if not good then at the very least decent). The point you're missing is that not everything has to follow what we consider good game design. Not everything has to be fair and consistent. What the game is set out to achieve dictates how its gameplay is designed, not the other way around. This mod may not be your cup of tea and that's okay. You're free to not play it, but what doesn't make sense is demanding fairness and consistency from a mod that, perhaps, never set out to achieve those things. What Ben is doing is hindering creative freedom.

@@MrTrollland There is a certain amount of opinion involved in this, true, but having watched all of these videos myself, there have been exactly zero times he's described something as bad game design where I disagreed. I acknowledge the existence of "bullshit as game design", a.k.a. kaizo/boshy, but saying something is "good" generally is going to be determined by popular views, and I would bet my entire fortune that the overwhelming majority of people (as in, out to several standard deviations) would not consider this good game design. Oh wait, I'm already right: The mod has received a ton of criticism talking about it being unfair and bullshit. You are allowed to enjoy bad things.

@@jkazos claiming there’s been “exactly 0 times” Ben has been wrong about the design of this mod is pretty bold. At the very least in this very video Ben complains the ambush in ‘Back Alley Brawl’ hasn’t been telegraphed when in reality it is. Similarly, there are missions (or part of missions) that Ben complains are badly designed, yet he becomes more consistent in them. To varying degrees that would be first part of GA, first part of TFB (if u don’t forget to move that is) and maybe even PP86 seeing as Ben started making it to the end more consistently once he got more used to the rc plane and revolver. Popularity is not an adequate metric. This is an obscure mod for a 20 year old game. Also, majority opinion on its own doesn’t prove whether something is good or not. The main thing I’m trying to get at is think mod goals first, game design second (because game design has to follow the vision of the game/mod). If this mod is trying to be another alternative to tightened (with emphasis on fairness and consistency), then yes, it’s pretty bad. Otherwise our evaluation of this mod has to be based on what it’s trying to achieve.

@@MrTrollland I like how your literal first sentence is a gaslight attempt that somehow I watched the video and disagreed with him but somehow didn't realize it? Or do you just have bad reading comprehension to understand I was talking about our opinions matching, not some objective metric? Anyway, you have opinions, I have opinions, my opinions happen to mesh with the popular view which (gasp) is how the world works. Trial and error is bad design. Ben is literally a Vice City speedrunner and has at least a decade of experience with the game. Everybody has limits, including reaction time and dexterity, but if he struggles with something the first time and then immediately nails it the second time, that was not difficulty, that was a failure of design in telegraphing what is expected if the player. It's like you didn't listen to any of his arguments at all about WHY he feels the way he does.

@@jkazos Mentioning reading comprehension is pretty ironic cause you misunderstood my very first point. Never did I try to say you disagreed with him without realizing. Instead I was trying to show that there’s been at least a few occasions where Ban was wrong. If you agreed with him on everything then you’re also wrong. Trial and error as a game design principle is not bad or good on its own. Trial and error is part of games like Cuphead or Dark Souls. Not suggesting this mod is on their level of quality of course, but it’s possible to pull off trial and error well. An actually constructive piece of criticism is that Hardlined doesn’t provide a mechanism for quick restart which is necessary for trial and error games. I didn’t listen to his arguments? If I ignore all of the occasions he cries “horrifically designed” after a mission failure, there barely were any arguments left. Ben assumes that this mod is trying to be a Tightened clone which skews his judgement on it.

Thanks man, been enjoying watching your take on the missions once I beat them (gotta avoid spoilers)

@@englishben Completely fair. ;)

By chance I was in exactly that part of the video and I just read your comment haha.

If they had good guns we would be hearing: WtTf hE deleTEd me in literaLly 1 second litErAlly iMpoSsible!!!

But they already have M4s almost all the time? xD @@Urbanizegaming

@@MilesFox92 M4s are easy to deal with. I'm talking m60s and spas shotguns

yeah

Such an odd thing to do considering you can like lose your stuff at any given moment either by getting wasted or busted

@@EnderGrad Yeah, I think the ability to save anywhere outside the missions was made to counter this. I've watched some more of this mod and now I don't even think this was the idea anymore, you'll see Rub Out where most of the mission is just trying to trick Lance's AI to not kill himself and you're just done. Very weird mod.

I'm aware :) It's just very inconvenient most of the time

I haven't touched IV much due to it not running well on my PC. I did do a blind run once for charity if you're interested - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bsulZ81-qJnZdHk.htmlsi=UN3BcODSJh77HuB6

@@englishben I’ll be sure to check it out after finishing this Hardline video just wanted watching you play each of the tightend mods, the half life movement videos, and the VCMP video really inspired me to go mod the games myself and it’s been a blast

Not as painful as playing it bro editing it is heaven compared to whatever this is

This sounds like troll and fact at the same time😂

It sounds like they put one of the menu sfx on a loop

I tried, but it crashes for me whenever I try and play it

@@englishben well... That sucks...

@@englishben The real playtester at it again!

I'd rather name it "Clenched Vice" instead.

Did you install it correctly? You have to put the files from Tightened Vice into the folder with a clean 1.0 version of VC

@@bounceb I know that much g lol

@@beastyy384 Can you describe the problem in more detail then? What system are you on? Does it not launch at all or does it crash on launch / new game start?

@@bounceb it crashes on new game start with the unhandled exception I did the vice city fix with the Ddraw.dll still nothing , tried compatibility mode nothing , I can load in the main element as soon as I press new game crash

I’m on x64 based , intel core i7 10700f at 2.90 ghz 8 cores . 32 gb of ram .

The ironic thing is that some missions employ more creative ideas than Tightened Vice.

@@MrTrollland and then you get shit like back alley brawl and whatever the fuck riot and treacherous swine was supposed to be and starts to realize that this mod blows

@@speedymcweed we weren’t commenting whether this mod blows or not (it doesn’t). U said the creator is uncreative and I explained that isn’t true. I can give u examples if folks won’t mind the spoilers

​@@MrTrollland It being uncreative or not is totally subjective. I would consider some things in the mod uncreative while you won't.

@@p_cuda9717 it has an element of subjectivity, but generally in these mods creativity is pretty straightforward to judge. It’s basically how u make it harder and what u change about the story.

the chase part is kind of cool, but it needs to be polished

Yea man

Didn't he criticize Tightened Thrice as well

Tightened Thrice doesn't have hidden M16 enemies at Donald's place. That's toughened, and I criticised both of those mods as well in my playthroughs