Ikr

a company tried to do the right and honest thing, and then everything went to hell for them. :(

People wanted discounts more than lower prices for some reason. I mean, it was JC Penney's fault for misreading the audience, but people like making things complicated. And so do...everybody.

+World of Gaming In no way is it JCPenny's fault. They never misread the consumers, they trusted them. Yet since no other company did that and kept lying, people felt like the "sales" were better. If it's anybody's fault its the other companies who started this cycle of lying to consumers.

+

It's a sad, sad world, isn't it?

I looked it up, people really seemed to love this game. But, that was two and a half years ago. From what I can tell, there was some kind of shift in management, and when it was released on steam, it came with a patch that completely decimated the game and left it a hollow shell of its former self. Almost every review says that Firefall was an amazing game during the beta, but now it's a buggy, generic mess that's missing much of the content it used to have... a sad world indeed.

Damn, because seeing this and how it did loot actually made me want to give it a try.

It was a fantastically crafted open-world MMOFPS with enjoyable horizontal progression that ended up falling to its shitty management's ambitions to make it more like a traditional MMO once it finally launched. The studio went under IIRC and the game today is a buggy, unplayable, unfun mess. Not even getting one of the best single-seat mounts in the game just for playtesting was enough to keep me playing after launch.

I played this game for a little while. it was a lot of fun. kinda like MMO borderlands with jetpacks.

The consumer is shallow and shortsighted- lesson learned. BRING IN THE ABERCROMBIE

That's not the whole story though, they remodeled the stores, phased out cheaper brands and brought in more expensive ones, if the fair and square model is for consistently good items at low prices it's a good deal. here we have a tool store that has almost no sales and has changing stock depending on the bulk deals they strike, and it's doing well. They went for a more luxurious/trendy approach without testing and lost the bulk of their customers which was moms in their 30s.

we want what we can't have. that perfect wife of yours vs that affair.....

At this point I blame the government for not forbidding these manipulative business practices.

JC Penny broke the rule that marketing figured out and Star Citizen excels at: the gamification of spending.

Nothing new there. Probably never gonna change either.

+Nep Nep well that's awfully pessimistic

Lovewaffle Realism and pessimism have a very thin divide, but I'd place what I said in the former catagory

Nep Nep It was pessimistically realistic

Bruce Grubb One of the millions of people that know how to count binary?

or to put it to the dumb half of the human race (75%) YOUR ALL FUCKING GULLIBLE IDIOTS

Paul Deddens Yeah, there was recently a mock-survey made to see what US parents would do if they theoretically found out that their kid(s) were Homo Sapiens. I think about 70 to 90% (I'm not sure) answered that they'd kick them out of the house and most of the rest answered that they'd accept it or discuss it with their kid. I just REALLY hope that the enormous number of parents just thought that there was a typo in the survey.

Double D If you're an American parent, this makes me happy. If not, WE KNOW!

Kazi Islam ... I'm... losing faith in mankind at an incredible speed... =S

Paul Deddens 75% is not half bro...

Dequan Milete It would have. I think they should try it again today. The media would absolutely tantrum over them going against the grain, the other department stores would try and start a smear campaign and only prove JC Penny's point further.

+William Barnes Yep. A good example of a similar combination system is Fallout, where you can find enemies with a gun and some components to either repair items or make food. I love it when a game combines both into the looting system.

+Souji Monaru Skyrim did this as well.

+William Barnes One of the reasons I liked Titan Quest was that the enemies actually dropped the loot they were using. That Minotaur beating your ass with a flaming sword? Kill him and you get it. That Skeleton is way harder to kill than his pals? Turns out he had a mythic shield that you get to use now!

Maybe non-thinking monsters ha human loot from other heroes he has killed. A giant eagle thing fed a few people to its babies, and the sword and helmet left behind is still stuck in that giant nest or etcetera. This could also be a way to incorporate good loot into more enemies? Dragons have mythology of collecting shiny things. Not just Smaug. Another perhaps?

Almost every Dungeons & Dragons game works exactly like this, though without the crafting system.

Ticket closed, works as designed. Hell, you think anyone'd still believe in me if I fixed that? --God, head of support.

+HuhJuhWuh Another common issue with the component drop system. It doesn't feel like it has intrinsic value, and some people may end up just selling their stacks of mats and just buying gear from a store, instead.

@@camillebanez8958 Make sure crafted gear is better than what the shops supply, or better yet, just base the game around the crafting system.

Rip firefall

@@nullpoint3346 basing the game on crafting gives linearity, while basing on a expected linear probability still holds the surprise factor. Crafting alone feels grindy and boring. Something like TitanQuest actually feels better when you loot the bosses, sell loot from minions and craft stuff from special items. A single progress system puts the entertainement value of the game in other features and may lead to unbalanced perceive satisfaction

I have a idea for a loot and craft system. You battle against a human like enemies with two daggers. After you defeated it you get some parts (hilt and blade) and the dagger, after you defeated some enemies and you got some parts and weapons, when you come to the town you can go to the weapon bench, and you can take the weapons apart, or combine the parts into new weapons, the crafting system is like the in cube world but with parts (imagine like you would build a weapon out of lego pieces from the theme with weapons )

+filip gvozdiak +filip gvozdiak Although you still have the problem that the loot won't be useful to everyone. A dagger handle for example wouldn't be useful for a mage

+filip gvozdiak By compodents meant wood, steel etc which for example can be used to craft a staff despite origonally being part of a shield.

Have you even seen the parts of the lego minifigure weapons

www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Lego-Ninjago-Ninja-Minifig-GOLD-BLACK-WEAPON-SET-w-Minifigure-Dragon-Sword-/260894744054 here i thought of the system

+DiscoClam That's pretty much what you have to do when you sell an item that has no intrinsic value. What's the value of a drink in a bar? It's "item value" is far lower than its price at the bar. I can get get a beer, put it in my fridge, drink it at home, for a fraction of the price I pay for the same beer, possibly in a much less clean glass, in a bar. Of course you have to sell the additional value of the experience, drinking there in a relaxed atmosphere with friends and all that. But one thing is (sadly) true. When it comes to price, it's not what people pay that makes them buy or not. It's what they pay LESS that does.

+DiscoClam It's true, I saw a $120 blue jacket on sale one time for $20. I bought it, then saw that at another store the regular price for a jacket of almost the exact same design but in different color was at the all-time price of $20. I felt more fulfilled getting the first jacket, and probably wouldn't have given a second glance at the second jacket. You lure the customer in with the perceived value. Also, JC Penney heavily advertised their honesty. I remember seeing commercials nonstop about their new-found honesty and such in 2011.

+Leon Mercury maybe customers felt mad about their dishonesty.. when you start promoting your new found honesty, you imply you were dishonest.

True! In fact, there are commercials that say that they are being honest when they aren't, but they work! So that might have actually worked too!

+Silver Fang Or mix the two together such that the components *ARE* gear! :O

+Silver Fang Story of Diablo 3's crafting system :P.

+Leon Mercury Borderlands TPS sorta did this with the Grinder system: Take a bunch of your less-than-useful loot and run it though the RNG again to get something that will be better than that stuff (probably).

+Silver Fang thats a good idea, sure id like to get a sword of newb wrecking, but collecting lots of little things is a lot easier, although thats just my mindset

idk, sometimes i find the crafting dynamic exhausting and sometimes confusing. it can also be just as time consuming as the alternative, especially if you need that last piece of finishing to get that weapon you always wanted. the idea of just picking up something from your latest kill just go overboard all the time. i love getting a super rare item from my boss battle or finishing a quest, but it loses it's zeal when a common monster drops something just as good every 5 minutes

+timlamiam We do, its why we marry poeple who cheat on us, rust those who decieve us, and buy things that dont make us happy, its whyw e take shitty jobs and why we take useless degrees, because paying the consequences for being decieved doesnt bruise our egos as much as facing reality. AKA life is hard and somewhat apathetic to your existence.

+timlamiam I kind of felt the same way when I watched this video.

+timlamiam You're more likely to buy something that is $3.99 not $4.00 and obviously a price that is marked down will make you seem like you got a deal and you feel almost that you "beat" the company. We do like being misled.

+Emotivation I don't buy into the whole $0.99 thing. It bugs me when I think of it. When figuring the price I just think of it as $1.00 in my head. There's literally tax on everything (at least where I live) so it's not going to be $0.99 or $0.95 it's going to be $1.00 and then some.

capitalism rewards participation in the quest for loopholes, cheating, trickery, just ways to word thieving to make it sound noble

Which goes to show that a certain amount of corporate misbehaviour (though certainly not all) is mandated by the irrationalities of consumers. We have met the enemy and he is us.

Terrible, isn't it? Consumer advocates must cry themselves to sleep at night, thinking about how the people they're fighting for unconsciously undermine themselves.

It's egotistic to think there is a few elite members of society pulling people down and telling people lies, people for the most case, get treated how they want, because they're not willing to do anything about it or are okay with how things are. I mean, if I could release something that greatly benefited society, but would cause massive changes in the infrastructure, it would never come to pass.

***** Wow, genuinely well said sir.

That's because consumers are so easy to manipulate

Liou David That statement only holds true if one presumes that stupidity is randomly distributed around a center, median however is guaranteed

+Liou David "A person is smart, but people are stupid." As individuals we learn and grow at a individual rate. We experiment, develop and we create according to how we learn best. But placed in a group we have whats called crowd mentality, where we have a tendency to follow the majority, even when we ourselves don't agree with them. Because of this, a few idiots in a crowd can quickly escalate to utter chaos. Not that it's a bad thing, crowd mentality is meant to be a survival instinct among nature, allowing pack animals to survive larger predators, or hunt larger animals. Among humans it has helped form movements that are beneficial to humanity. So yes, Humans are stupid, but they are also extremely intelligent. It just depends on what form of intelligence you are measuring at the time. On an unrelated note: "Stupider" is not a word, the correct phrase is more stupid.

For those who doesn't know, that's a quote from the late George Carlin.

yup

Average dosn't mean half are higher. Median is the term you're looking for.

Agreed.

***** Agreed and it's one of the things I like so much about Dark Souls since enemies have a chance to drop BOTH at once sometimes.

doomrider7 terraria does it well too. Mobs do mostly drop components but they do have a rare chance to drop a better weapon (some very rare).

doomrider7 the fact that souls are the pure currency of the game to level, buy weapons, buy other crap, and everything else that souls do make it an amazing game .

***** That is an excellent idea. I like things that go inbetween. It is sort of like how in WOW enemies can drop fancy items or cloth used for tailoring and first aid. Most beasts can drop vendor trash, and can be skinned for leather used for leather-crafting.

+Franklin Falco reasons why I don't trust most people 😂😂

Many of them would rather believe a lie that feels amazing rather than a truth that feels okay. That means they're fickle and will let themselves be deceived to get that emotional high. Why would I trust someone that unreliable?

+Franklin Falco oh there's definitely that, I but I would not trust a person's commitment and sincerity until I have proof beyond doubt.

It's not like the average consumer has access to that info or that the company branded itself that way via marketing. People who are knowledgeable about the truth will often embrace it. But also, don't be so arrogant as to think you're above the same kind of manipulation. You're human too.

I'm not saying I am beyond it, though I understand and appreciate why you would think that. What I mean is that I'm disappointed in the fact that my suspicions about other people (not that it's their fault) have been confirmed true to an extent. I have grown up with serious trust issues, is all.

For an added bonus, the components themselves could be used as one-shot items (such as a one off attack or buff) or traded for other components, meaning even if it's an item made up of components you can't build anything you're interested with, you get some disposable toys or a means to get needed components.

That's a cool idea.

the truth has been spoken :D The why not both theory :D

And you also get shafted because you can trade the 1 scrap metal for a weapon on any trade server instead of spending 50 scrap metal to get the one item you wanted.

The difference is that none of the weapons or cosmetics crafted or found in the game are direct upgrades to the Stock weapons. All weapons are either sidegrades or downgrades with attributes that make up for the disadvantage (i.e. The Ubersaw has a slower use time but builds Ubercharge on hit). The only progress you make in TF2 is obtaining more skill, both as a player and a teammate.

Rooper Thereby, making it a more balanced experience. It wouldn't work too well on an MMO, but TF2 perfects it.

***** Firefall is experimenting with reducing the level jump between newb and leet. Right now, a fully set up character seems to be at most, three times better than a new character. Which compared to the 50-50,000 health jump in some games from level 1-90, it works out well.

AutodidacticPhd Ah, but then you put in place your top down system, and regulators ruthlessly manipulate your emotions for their own power and benefit. Really...you make it sound like you need half a dozen phds when the question I end up asking about "stupid" people most often is what where they doing during Jr. High Math courses besides listening to basic math that allows them to continue being so stupid all the time. It's one of those self fullfilling prophecies, if you believe that "Stuff is too hard to figure out and someone else ought to do it for me while keeping 4 times the cost of that service for overhead in the government budget." then it will be. Someone is happily investing in controling those agencies you've surrendered your decsion making processes to, and controling them, therefore controling you. UNLESS you develop your own critical thinking.

Frank Johnson You want to actually quote the part where I said the only alternative is central authority? Or where I said that admitting to the overwhelming volume of information means giving up on critical thinking? Of the reforms I would most like to see, the addition of explicit critical thinking and media awareness to basic public curriculum is very near the top priority. Nothing about free market economics implies a better educated, rational, or freely acting populace. And neither does a more socially conscious model imply passivity... if anything, I'd say the exact reverse of those strawman assumptions is closer to the truth.

AutodidacticPhd Nothing about free market economics implies a better educated populace? Well there's certainly a better motivation, because no one else is going to do it for you. Critical thinking isn't something you can aim at a few politically selected targets that you don't like. If they let that genie out of the bottle, kids would start critically thinking about government, and we can't have that now can we? Ultimately though where your argument falls flat on it's face is whatever emotional human fallings consumers or marketeers have, government will be made up of those same corrupt humans. There's no virtuous supermen waiting that can weild that sort of power without being compromised themselves over any signficant period of time, as history shows.

Frank Johnson I'm sorry, but I really have no time to argue against an amorphous strawman. All forms of human community entail something you could call government, even anarchy. By writing the whole category off as a boogyman, you don't gain freedom, but only insure an inability to analyse what actually is and participate in shaping what may be.

AutodidacticPhd Ah yes, violence is much too useful for you to abandon.

I think your on to something there. Whats important isnt whether picking up an object feels more substantial then its base components its about avoiding the mundane. Crafting works in games like minecraft because minecraft is supposed to be casual and mundane simple fun, but fantasy games are about empowering the player to be something hes not. Without some sort of fanfare or flash your not really getting what you paid for.

idk

every one just had "drop memes" in the email

+Collin Shorette I agree, ripping the head off your enemy and wearing it like a mask makes monster hunter's the best loot system I've ever had the pleasure of using. It also encourages players to work together to get better gear from harder mobs, especially if your friends are further along than you. This is the opposite of normal drop loot systems where having more people means lower chances of you being the one who gets the loot or even making it impossible to distribute exp if one party member is over-leveled.

Zadamanim Exactly. And having a good (or just well coordinated team) makes grinding feel a whole lot less...well...like grinding. Each and every successful hunt that goes off without a hitch feels so damn good. Knowing what parts to damage, completing subquests, capturing and whatever other methods one can do to increase drop chances feels even better. You're not just causing battle damage to them. You're actively making your loot odds a lot better. It really makes the game a hell of a lot better and really conducive to the team oriented play. With everyone having individual odds and not group odds on any loot really helps too, so that not just the 'best player' gets the good stuff.

This, so much this. And, getting a toxic glande from a spider feels SO MUCH COOLER than getting a ready made poison. It feels like you actually hunted for that item, not just a stupid quirk in the game. I have to disagree with this Extra Credits in that sense, and I can say, if FireFall does a loot system, I'd protest the hell out of it.

I agree. Monster Hunters crafting system is pretty much this. Though now it has me thinking WHY it works so well. Maybe because it doesn't just fly off an enemy? You have to work to get the rare stuff, break there face, cut off there tail, ect. And you don't just pick it up you have to CARVE it off them. It makes you really feel like a hunter.

Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2, and possibly the old republic.

It would be much more rewarding to unlock new recipes and be capable of making stuff yourself, but the joy of getting something rare that you were not expecting can never be changed ... Perhaps something a bit more intertwined and mixed with the two features could be refined to an amazing game feature ...

I think it would depend for me. Right now, most MMO games use specific loot locked behind bosses to gate progress. You have to get X weapon from a raid to go on to the next, and that's the only place you can get it unless you buy it, which usually isn't the case. With crafting components, all you're changing is the limitation of who can roll. The amount of grind could be the same, if not more, than with a gear system, but now every roll you have a chance to try on. Add to that I can almost guarantee no game with this system is only going to require 1 of any component, so even after you get your drop, you still need to do it again. So nothing really changes except for how often you get a chance to roll. Any benefit in time saved you get from rolling on every item is negated when you factor in you now need more than before. And Ikea Effect isn't a law. Personally, I hate putting things together myself 99% of the time. If I DESIGN it myself, I feel great, but just buying something to put someone else's design together? Nah, I'll gladly have someone else do that.

Daniel LeBlanc Sure, people would have to kill the same monster over and over again to gain enough materials. but it is far more frustrating to kill a sh*tload of monsters, with a rare drop you need, but two other equally rare drops that are totally useless to you. So, in two of three cases this rare drop actually, well, drops, you end up with one you don´t need.

Considering Monster Hunter runs on the exact principles of crafting and is insanely popular worldwide, I'd say it's better

Monster Hunter is a different game entirely than what the episode's scope was. The game is designed around single-player gameplay with co-op options, where Firefall is an MMORPG. And better as in some people like it more? Sure. But MMORPGs have a large player base than Monster Hunter does, world-wide, so not sure if you can just claim its popularity as it being 'better'. Also, functionally they are exactly the same. In a MMO, I grind dungeon X to get the gear I need, with only a chance to get it. In MH, I can grind X quest to get the mats I need, which drop at a slightly better chance than the MMO gear but still only a chance, and I need more of them than just one. So an MMO with MH's system would be functionally identical to the current gear trend. The rest is pure opinion on which is 'better' (personally, I hate anything that adds grind for grind's sake, especially if what you're grinding is boring). Most people tend to like shinier, rarer drops than small trinkets, which is one of the main reasons rare gear drops haven't gone away. Hell, GW2- an MMO that did away with the endless gear-grind of dungeons- still has those unique and rare drops from bosses rather than the crafting materials to craft those items. Because it feels amazing when you beat the odds and get them. Lottery, gambling, raffles all demonstrate this. I think a game would be hard pressed to give that same enthusiasm about a crafting material drop that you need 4 of total. And if you only need 1, then it is the exact same thing as the current gear system- arguably worse since you have to then go and craft the item (usually by way of a poorly designed crafting system that itself is another grind) before you can use it, where a piece of gear you can just equip.

Daniel LeBlanc Have you played monster hunter?

THANK YOU for saying this. Two great games!

I didnt try the beta, but according to what I understood, the developers reduced the value of the drops by simply making them useful for every job. If everything is useful nothing is, you need some sort of measurement to tell when an item is useful and when is just crap. This is an opposite case of what happened with Diablo 3, with very hard to get drops, with this you need much time to farm dophamine in the player, and in the other there's actually no dophamine because you are not actually farming it.

+Alex Stradivarius this is why they stopped using quality modifiers and just switched to various minerals being rarer than others. the main issue with the game, though, is that it's hard to figure out where the stuff you want is located, which if they simplified, would make gameplay more rewarding.

I agree

This survey is pointless. He explained to his audience, the survey sample, how the component gameplay is objectively better, so they're biased.

caske1996 I feel like Monster Hunter makes the rewards for obtaining these craftables more noticeable like I likely get same feeling when I carve a S. Magala Mantle from a G rank S Magala knowing that (monster hunter being a purely equipment driven game) that I'm going to be getting my new badass greatsword. Or perhaps its that you get these carves at the end of the quest and then your immediately back in town and are right where you need to be to instantly craft your weapon of badassitude. The "getting and epic carve" is the same as a "getting an epic weapon or armor piece" because you immediately get to make your weapon or armor piece as soon as you finish your quest.

Sam Stansberry True, and even if you cant make anything from some of the loot you got, you can always decide to make it into a new weapon and expand your horizons

I think Monster Hunter does this well because it takes the divergent path. You get crafting item drops, sure, but you can't always use all of them. And you don't fight monsters simply to get the items, but also to complete a quest and unlock more of the game.

DiscoClam True, also, getting items that are not necessairily usefull for the weapon path you want means that you can use it to experimint with other weapon types

Plus you aren't restricted to what the game tells you you can't use (Only Mages can use this weapon) and are much more free to explore everything you can get without necessarily feeling cheated. Then again, Monster Hunter tends to demand much more from its players, with it's unrelenting difficulty, so players would probably feel cheated if they put in all that effort to get items that they could never use.

Yeah, they are still suffering from the whole disaster. It is very unfortunate but too be honest I know a lot of people, including myself, think that way. Your idea sounds a lot better cause it can appeal to everyone. I am just worried about the Resident Evil 6 syndrome which is trying to make everyone happy results in no one being happy. The barter effect is an excellent point since I used to do that as well. It at least gets us to interact with other people.

Actually, minecraft does a not of both. I think Terraria's system is great. You can sell the stuff you don't want.

Ryan McClure In minecraft, a skeleton can seem to be extremely powerful, why you ask? It has an enchanted bow. This is one of the cases I would accept the bow over the bones. Even if the bow is damaged, I can repair my bow and get better enchants on it, I truthfully think games shouldn't have to choose gear or loot, but rather mix both to where a more powerful variant of a mob can drop gear with some better loot than the others.

Ah, but in Minecraft you can build "mob grinders" which constantly kill mobs and stores loot for you if made efficiently, so you don't have to! I suppose that's what I like about it - if some things you don't like doing, you can automate them and get stacks of items and experience :) I saw one time, a guy created a Village by himself where one villager bought wheat for emeralds, and the rest sold iron, diamonds and other precious stuff for emeralds. He could make wheat, an easily accessible resource, into precious materials! I was pretty amazed by it to be honest.

you can do it more efficiently in terraria

yeap One bucket of lava and a statue IM DONE GUYS

I want to both agree without because your argument seemed sound and disagree with you for the sake of debate.

Apparently, they just forgot...

+Johnny Horstman You can't ignore losing billions of dollars. I wish they succeeded, would have been a win for the consumer and business generally

+Johnny Horstman this is true but only a small part. advertising was also a big factor. they did a horrible job. many people didn't understand or know about the method. many of those that knew just thought that they were just no longer going to have sales. they also had bad advertising coming from competing companies. trying to give that idea bad press. Much like how the Gamecube was attacked by Microsoft in preparation for the Xbox. yes they were going to lose money per customer but given time they would have started making more in volume. this was delayed due to bad advertisement. they panicked and dropped the new method. in a nut shell they would rather play it safe and rip everyone off.

+Deathwish Yeah, that was the final nail in the coffin, the competition. That strategy is great in a vacuum, not so much when mixed in the Sunday circulars with 15 competitors' ads saying things like "some companies don't believe in having sales to save you money, but we do! Announcing half off everything in stock!" and "For some people paying full price for clothes is a bragging right, but for most of us, saving the most money possible is what matters. That's why you can save up to 60% this weekend..." The competition made their strategy look greedy and disadvantageous to the consumer by doubling down on the very thing that strategy was meant to circumvent and then calling out how Penny's wouldn't do the same.

"Most humans are idiots." "Never try to call for *they* intellect." Oh, the irony...

Hey, he never excluded himself.

+Steven Karabelas Or like Terraria, where those materials are actually useful BURN

+DethHydra That argument is old and pointless.

+DethHydra Mods are where it's at, though :P.

+DethHydra At least Minecraft gets updated more often ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

+Navnik BHSilver Actually, if you think about it, Warframe managed to create combination of both. "Normal gear", doesnt matter if it's good or not, uses resource system when you collect 1000 of that, 500 of that, 100 of this and that 1 resource that drops with 1% chance and then melts into nothing 24h later. Then we have the Prime Gear, which is both supposed to be the best gear in the game (which is often true) and in the same time it's a powerful gear from lore's perspective too. used by Orokin, the no-longer existing faction that, according to the lore, had best technology advances in the universe (and best looking too, with ornamental gold and stuff). The Prime Gear does not require resources. Only 1, which is more of "uncommon" than "rare". Everything else - are parts. Parts needed exclusively to build that one awesome gun, for which you'd have to grind for days and weeks, based on how lucky are you. And when you finally get that Primed Thing - you feel accomplished, another one into your Prime Gear collection. Looks good, probably performs good, but importantly - now it's yours. So yeah, Warframe managed to create combination of both systems. Though people hate RNG-based grinding for Prime Parts, because playing same mission for 100 times to get that one last part is a little bit... anoying.

Ei’ríġ Proinsias Dammantaċ Ó Gamhna. Well, unless you get legislation in place to make honest behaviour mandatory.

I think part of the reason it works are two things: 1. Full item preview. You can see how it looks and its full stats before you make. This increases desire. 2. Rare component drop. It feels good to see a strong weapon drop, and even better when a rare and desired component drops that will translate to strong equipment later. If we translate this to real life, I suppose the common items would have "no sale," while desirable items would have a "sale." Everyone needs a $20 pair of jeans, but act now to get that cool people's jeans for $40, that is normal "sold" for $60! I feel dirty now.

Also, people expect monster hunter games to have that system. With firefall, people went in with a warcraft background.

In Monster Hunter the true feel good moment is, when this Big ass super fast and dangerous monstrosity dies. It isn´t so much about the loot and you just have to kill most things only a few times to get what you want and you can focus farm what you need.

Nice profile pic buddy

Overmind97 But it's still farming. And a lot. That Rathalos Plate made me see more Rathalos faces than the devs themselves modelling it. And yeah, you're right. But without a good looking awesome equipment, you wouldn't feel so badass. Or you would, depends on your playstyle. I know I wouldn't.

Burning Magyk Thanks, buddy. Junpei is the best.

Narabedla: Not only that, but it's more about getting that really rare item like the gem or the plate. However they are getting better about it where they let you either use substitutes that you're tossing out, or make it easier to get provided you accomplish specific objectives per map. Or they let you trade for the items with another item that you can accomplish through different means. Say, from world - The Wyverian Prints are items that you can exchange for some rare drops. You get these not by RNG, but by accomplishing specific objectives available to you per week. These objectives are made to encourage you to play more - but it makes you *feel* like you earned it when you get the print and can exchange it for the rare item, much like how it feels you earned it when you killed a million monsters for the gem. Even then, some items are more available if you accomplish specific objectives. I want a Nergigante horn... so I'll try to break Nerigante's horns, it increases the chance to do it. And in the more recent games, it *actually* does it. Not "Gives you another roll of the dice... at 1% chance each."

So for example in say "mumorpuger", i kill a bad guy, he drops say an iron sword, and say adamatite and invincium, the adamantite coul be used to craft the infinity +1 sword and the invincium coud be used to make an infinity +1 suit of armor. Am i getting what your trying to say?

screw that, I say just give everyone item drops and let them breakdown what that item was made of back in town to be of use in other projects. Satisfy both herds.

I got another idea, lets say you can have a basic gear and instead of geting a new item or the materials to make one you could add say material to your gear at the spot, kind of like I got a chain breastplate and a long bow and the giant two-headed snake I just killed drops scales and poison... glands or whatever and I just got to my inventory and add the scales to my breastplate for more protection and the glands to my bow so now I have poison arrows

Juan Moreno That's a neat idea I do think something like that would work out in game and still be rewarding for the player as well. I quite like the idea it makes far more logical seance then what I came up with anyways.

I cheated actually, :p I tried my luck with a little flash game a few years ago and that was my solution to limit resources, the project fell with my pc back then, I still want to restart but my laptop suck and I no longer love flash, so yeah, the idea is there for the taaking tough if someone can make it hapen

Exactly. I believe monster hunter is probably the best example of how this can honestly still give that great feeling.