Remember when naughty dog made good trilogies like Jak and Daxter? I remember, Pepperidge Farms remembers

elie toke about a week to do the revenge and she saw how joel was tortured, abbe toke 4 years to do the revenge despite she didn't see the killing and obviously the dad was not tortured .. the game story is very messed up and show how we dealing with really troubled minds who uses graphics to spread syco ideas, i even can't play the game in front of my kids with all inappropriate content

They should think positively. Abby makes friends

I think the story is about choices. what I'm hearing this creator and a lot of other folks say about the second game is how they disrespected Joel by letting him die that way, and them trying to make us care about his killer by playing as her; how it made the game bad from the start. I used to be on this train myself. But the more I have sat with and played the game I realized that was just kind of surface level thinking. Also they didn't retcon the first games ending. retroactive continuity (retcon) refers to a literary device in which the form or content of a previously established action is changed. They didn't change Joel's action or the outcome, they simply showed us the consequences of it. In my analysis of the second game, it seems to be about choices, how there are always more that 1 side to them, and how they ALL have consequences, also revenge and what it can cost you. This is reflected in everyone in the games fate but for simplicities sake, Ill focus on Joel, Ellie, and Abby. Starting with Joel, we all know what his big choice was, end of the first game he choice what had become his daughter or the possible savior of the world for humans. I see lots of parents play this game and even in this comment section saying they would do the same for there kids and I can't fault them. I actually tend to agree. Regardless, we all have to admit that in the end this was a selfish (yes selfish, this is objective not a moral judgment on Joel) choice he made. He went back to survivor Joel who used to ambush people before Boston and killed most everyone in that building, not thinking of the consequences. He also then chose to lie to Ellie about it, even after hearing her stance on having wanted it to happen (this, this is the morally wrong choice for me). In doing this he opened himself up to consequences if she ever found out. Both of these choices came back to bite him in the second game, destroying his closeness with Ellie and ultimately getting him killed. I would venture to say though that all the parent who would have killed those fireflies for their kids would have also taken Joel's fate if it meant keeping them safe. Most of the emotions of anger from Joels death from players are simply because we played as and grew to love him. but when you take a step back you have to admit, he earned his fate. If some one killed your parent in cold blood and you had the ability, wouldn't you avenge them?? Moving to Abby. I think its very interesting that all the folks who had the "I would have done the same thing as Joel" energy don't have that same feeling for abby. Her father was MURDERED and she knew who did it/ where to find him. What did we think was going to happen. Now of course, she was particularly brutal in how she did it. However, I ask again, if this was your father or mother, I doubt most folks who have been any more merciful than she was. Back to the theme of choices, consequences, and revenge. Not being able to let go of this tragedy and needing to avenge her father lost her LITERALLY everything she loved. There was no way for her to know it at the time but she had just set off a wave of death by killing Joel. ALL of her friends (including her life long love and his pregnant girl friend) end up murdered in cold blood, brutally, just like Joel. All because of her choices and their consequences. She even had to watch Manny get his head blown in and be covered in his blood, with no time to recover because Tommy was on her. As a player, the 2nd time I played the game I had to ask myself, was all this death really worth it. Abby's real selfish action wasn't even killing Joel in my opinion. It was dragging her friends into it. That choice got all of them killed. Leaving her ultimate consequence being having nothing and nobody that she use to love. Lastly, Ellie. This one always interest me the most because she makes the EXACT SAME choice that Abby makes, taking her friends into danger to get revenge but we all supported it with no questions just cause, well, we love Ellie. She needed to avenge her father too. Needing this cost her everything too, just like Abby. She lost friends, her home, her family, and her last true connection to Joel by losing her ability to play guitar due to Abby taking her fingers. Her going out there and killing Abby's friends got Jessie (a father to be) killed. It also almost got Dina and her unborn child murdered. If Lev had not been there to convince Abby not to, the worst would have happened. Lets not forget, after learning Dina was pregnant, she didn't stop and say let me take you back home to safety. She yelled at her, and then decided to go out on her own, which in itself is selfish. What if infected or a human faction found Dina?? Tommy went out there on his own so that isn't on her. But at what looks like it could be the end of the cycle of loss, Ellie cant let it go, and chooses to give up Dina and the child they are raising together for revenge. Even when she finds Abby the universe tries to give her another out when Abby refuses to fight, almost like the universe doesn't want anyone to lose anything else. But Ellie wont let it go, and forces it by losing some humanity and threatening to kill an almost dead Lev. And what does going after the revenge get her......... nothing. It actually takes even more from her because this is when she loses the fingers. It almost like Ellie realizes this after she loses her fingers and she ends the fight balling her eyes out. She has NOTHING and its because of her choice. She could have tried to learn to live with Joel's death but she needed revenge, and this is another place where, like Joel and Abby's choices. We cant really blame her, most of us would have wanted revenge to. This to me is what the second game is about after you step back and look at it choices, how there are always more that 1 side to them, and how they ALL have consequences, also revenge and what it can cost you.

Ok You lost me right at the beginning. Saying Joel's death was "devoid of narrative purpose" My dude. Joel's death was the narrative catalyst of the game. It is literally the purpose for the narrative.

Your analysis was certainly a take. But I must say I firmly disagree with every point you made. The quality of a life doesn't dictate the quality of a death, which tends to be gritty, ugly, and pointless, all independent of how highly or lowly the individual lived. That's the only point I'll address directly, though they all could be treated similarly.

Fantastic video man, really hope this blows up! Earnt a sub!

I feel like the game could've continued in a sequel where the focus was on completely new characters, with small cameos of Joel and Ellie. Then later down the line, revisit them, the opportunity for more world building was there. I still don't understand why they killed him the way they did, if they wanted to OFF Joel, it should've come off more grandiose. Just my opinion.

Joel's death felt devoid of narrative purpose? I mean, it's the inciting incident for the whole story. Ellie had to watch him being brutally murdered to be sent on her revenge quest in the first place. It had to happen early, as it were, to get it over with, so that the main story could begin without too much additional prologue time. I get that people might not like this, but it serves a very clear narrative purpose. And also: Joel had it coming. I wasn't even guessing Fireflies when I saw him dying, as TLOU1 went out of its way to portray Joel as a violent man who did terrible things for years and years after the outbreak. So it could have been any unknown faction from his past.

great work buddy

Plus, I just thought about it right now, Ellie is still immune. But who cares? No one. It's no longer a part of the story. Anyway, this game sucks because it's boring. I stopped after Abby had to go to the island, it was just too long and repetitive. Plus I hate Abby. This character doen't make any sense. She kills litteraly anyone. wolf, scars, kids, pregnant women, she couldn't care less.

Looking at the comments makes me a bit happier, seeing more and more people coming to understand this game and not just hating it because your favorite character died. This truly is the Metal Gear Solid 2 of the modern day.

Tlou fans You can't butcher an already established character and retcon his entire arc for shock value to catapult a new character into the spotlight to establish them as a badass GTA TLAD fans First time 😏

Joel was a "beloved character"?

I don't get why people get so emotional about Joel? "In the last of us 2 joel gets diminished to a victim..." Yes, that's probably the fate of many in such a world. , makes me chuckle a bit because reminds me of how George RR Martin kills your favorite characters, thus the usual warning from GOT -book- fandom: Valar Morghulis

Joel's death was not for shock value. He deserved to be brutally murdered for all of the things he's done. He had it coming. That's why Abby's response to Joel asking who she was is so powerful. She responds with "Guess." We as the player knowing the story can imagine in her mind there can only be one (or a few) answer(s). But having played as Joel and knowing his story that line can take on a completely different meaning. It can literally be one in a thousand people that could want to brutally murder Joel for the things he's done.

Can we all agree that the last of us part 2 doesn't make sense because it is set in a post-apocalyptic world, were it's either kill or be killed.

Please, get over yourself. Joels death was not shock value. Dude deserved to get merked %100. The story in this game is amazing, shows the true nature of revenge and that soley seeking revenge can leave ypu with less than you started with. Hence Ellie and Abby losing everything.

I think you guys who criticize this game read the same reddit posts or something. I have seen 4 different videos with the exact same talking points to the point where some of the Dialogue is word for word. I know what your issue is and it has nothing to do with the writers.