Summary, they died in tma cause their in tma not cause they’re gay

Technically speaking the podcast did bury its gay protagonist. He just uh, didn't die before he got buried.

I know he’s not a particularly major character (ok, he’s only in five episodes but he’s my favorite character so shh) but Oliver Banks is one of my favorite queer characters in the podcast. I just love that the grim reaper is a gay ex-accountant turned metaphysical shop employee with several fake identities. absolute madman.

Just saying this probably wouldn't have even happened if they'd unionized in season 1

"Bury your gays" Jon and Daisy, episode 132:

I am a firm, "Jonah is gay but cares more about immortality than anything else" believer

I think its easier to excuse some things that John has done because he legitimately had no power over the entities controlling him, and despite unknowingly ending the world, he himself had no real authority, while Daisy explicitly and admittedly used the Hunt to abuse her authority and power as a police officer But like thats the whole point of post-coffin Daisy. She knows she fucked up, she knows she did terrible things, and she doesn't want to sugarcoat it. She accepts her own responsibility in doing those things because she actually had agency over her actions. The worst things John did in his own agency were force people to relive their traumatic experiences, and that's horrible, but the worst things Daisy did of her own agency were literally hunt down and kill innocent people.

I think the thing with Daisy & Basira that differentiates them from other people controlled by the powers is that they engage in police brutality, and the institutionalized system of that is really triggering and harmful for a lot of people, so yes the point of the show is to question their power and agency as characters - but also there are extremely valid reasons not to like or trust Daisy and Basira as characters even given the show’s nuance

Jon being Ace was one of the absolute moments that cemented my love for Jon and the series.

If I'm being honest, I think Melanie and Georgie are the lowest on the "Probably Going to Die" list tbh. The 2 of them are the most far removed from The Powers that, in addition to what you said and the fact that I feel like Jonny wouldn't do that, I just don't even think it'd be like. A logical move at this point

Tma is like: everyone gets to be buried :)

but that homophobic vase is still around.

Well, we now know how it ends, but I also feel the same about John's fate. Jonny has said that he himself flip flops on whether or not he thinks they both died of if they went somewhere else, so I guess it depends on what you think happens in the end. Personally, I'd like to think they survived, but I also agree that if they for sure died I'd still be satisfied with the end, because it fit with the story. It feels like a natural ending to the story and not a jab at the audience for some sort of reaction.

1:42 From what I’ve heard, the podcast was originally intended to be a strict anthology series with Sims playing himself as a kind of Crypt Keeper who reads the stories. Then they turned it into this epic, long story, but they kept the character’s name

Spoilers Absolutely love how gorganie’s character arc went from “girlfriends who drive to therapy” to “girlfriends who lead a cult of survivors in post-apocalypse London”.

"They're both arguably still alive" Gjgjjk who's here after 179

I think Georgie’s going to have some significance later, with her inability to feel fear

I genuinely think this is the first analysis/video essay I've seen on TMA. And I've been looking for them! thank you!

Only got half way through so I might comment again but the comparison of Melanie/Georgie to a wild crackship Cecil/Ryan mashup just... I lost it, thanks so much for pointing out the bizarre way that would look to the public at large

personally i like to think daisy is gay because she growled one time and it was very hot and i’m gay. yes her violent acts are irredeemable and her character development is very complex but she’s a werewolf and she growled so i want her to be gay because, please bite me lol!!! also she’s a little too fruity about basira for being a police partner but that’s a whole other can of worms 🐛

I think Jon and Martin are going to die and I'm slowly becoming okay with that. I JUST WANT MELANIE AND GEORGIE TO LIVE HAPPILY WITH THE ADMIRAL

I know this is so very late, but this video single handedly validated my Ace identity. I came out to a group of individuals about a year ago and they were all supportive. That was until I made an off handed comment about me not being sure if I was lesbian Ace or bi Ace or whatnot yet, and one of them went off on me, telling me that wasn’t how it worked, you can’t be Ace and Bi at the same time, etc. etc. They demanded proof for my understanding, told me my source wasn’t one (how am I supposed to get a source for that kinda thing? Dig up a scientific study about it?) and never provided their own. By the end of it I was legit crying because I felt like I was wrong about my identity and like I was just trying to get attention. They didn’t say that, but that’s how I felt. When you off handedly said Jon was also either bi or pan, my entire being felt so validated. Thank you. Thank you.

Daisy being a unrepentant sadist kinda fits the themes of the story, John is constantly trying to prove that his actions are no longer his own while daisy aggressively holds onto everything she dose bieng her choice alone. There basically approaching the same personal disaster from opposite ends. Post coffin daisy is coming to realise that the little voice in her heart telling her that what she's doing is good and right may just be completely wrong. John meanwhile is struggling to accept that there is nothing at all sopping him from just.. not doing any of this.

great analysis! i love tma so much, but sometimes i forget widely accepted fanon like cane user jon isn’t canon. i wish there were more trans/disabled characters, but as a whole i think it’s pretty good rep. i love daisy, and it breaks my heart that people trash her so much. yeah she kinda sucks, but especially if you’re an elias/peter lukas stan, it’s pretty trashy to fixate hate on her.

I think the funny thing is there's pretty much 0 confirmed straight characters. Julia is probably the closest as only ever showing interest in men (and has multiple mentions of relationships) or Jerred since he made a homophobic jab and jon/martin.

also daisy being commonly head cannoned as a butch lesbian/trans woman/gnc is just sus to me because everyone just decided to hc the violent cop as gnc... wonder why none of the well loved female characters (melanie, georgie, og sasha) are characterized as such

Jon’s death was mostly hinted at in season five. It was heavily implied that he could not survive without the eye

Daisy's redemption arc (of sorts) was a very interesting twist on the usual idea of redemption. usually, redemption arcs center around forgiveness, changing oneself for the better and apologizing to the people one has hurt, so they can be forgiven and move on. but with Daisy, she can't be forgiven and she isn't. even though the avatars are heavily influenced by the fears, it is clear that they have some kind of agency. Daisy still went on to do horrible things and misuse her power as a cop. and after getting back from the coffin, she KNOWS that she can't ever be a truly good person again. she can't undo all of her wrongdoings and they aren't actions that can be forgiven easily, or at all. but Daisy feels so horribly guilty and she still tries to be a better person, just for the sake of being a good person. not to be forgiven (mainly bc most of her victims are implied to be dead lol), not to be seen as a hero or to convince anyone else. she does it because it's the right thing to do, period. this doesn't automatically make her a good person. she engaged in police brutality and it was at least partially her choice to do so. but it doesn't make her a horrible monster either because she is willing to take responsibility for her crimes and work on being a better person, even if she can't go back and undo everything she's done. she's simply a morally dubious and complex character and i love that about her so much. this is what redemption arcs should be like. regardless of how bad the character's mistakes were, the intent of their redemption must be to do it because it's the right thing to do.

Watching this after the full podcast has ended really hits different

Boy, this video aged pretty well.

francis is canonically enby

I agree so much with your opinion on LGBT character deaths. It seems like “bury your gays” can be blanketed for any lgbt character death without nuance difference between TMA vs Voltron Legendary Defender (despite Shiro still lived an moved on) vs Supernatural (straight up disrespectful). I’ve been really interested in TMA due to it sounding like it could scratch a similar itch WTNV does, hearing LGBT well written in there certainly helps tick a box to do so (now I just need my adhd to focus and motivate to do it)

The real question is “is it really bury your gays if Jonny sims personally relishes in killing every single one of his characters he can (he killed off his actual immortal character too so. Not even exaggerating) in new and unique ways, regardless of whether or not they’re queer.” Also he and his partner are both bi and we love that for them

Great analysis! I personally think that Martin will survive but he will lose Jon but that's my opinion. Also YES people in this fandom get so dang protective of their hcs as if they are gospel truth. Like yes this hc is good and valid but y'all it is not canon and I am allowed to disagree. Anyways, totally agree with all that you say and the "We are the new Archivist" theory is so cool 😲

also watching this after the podcast finished is heart warming cause every time youre like “i hope this person lives” i can be like yes!! yes they do!!

i think i remember hearing the jonny is bi too. its probably why there is so much representation in tma

I love the 100% correct readings of the themes in this. And yeah, Daisy and Basira not being canonically confirmed as a couple is for the better given what they did before the archives, especially with the parts of Basira's perspective being illuminated right after this video came out. Paraphrasing Jonny from the post S5 QnA, having each other's back in the us vs them dynamic of police work including making excuses for the other's engaging in police brutality is a very different story to having each other's back and making excuses for each other out of a felt obligation born of love. I like that despite this intention of Jonny's it ended up ambiguous in a way that allows thinking about it for literal hours at a time.

tim's bi too

... Why did you have to be so spot-on? Why!? *proceeds to sob in a corner*

So. I just binged all of TMA last week so finding old content discussing it is filling the new void in my heart from the shows finale. I totally agree with this analysis and you were absolutely spot on with everything despite the show not being completed yet. I adore all of the characters in TMA because they are real people. Daisy and Jon dealing with the feeling of being pushed into being nonhuman even tho they didn't ask for that (it feels akin to when in genocides and wars many ppl have to make the choice to keep or abandon their humanity to stay physically and mentally safe). And Basira excusing and even defending police brutality because she loves Daisy is a very human thing to do, despite how messed up it is. This show to me never really felt like a bury your gays thing, bc like u said most of the characters are queer. Jonny didnt want to stamp out the happiness of queer chacters and fans, he wanted to tell a supernatural horror story full of real people who just happen to all be queer. I def agree tho that the show as a whole was missing disability and trans rep. I think easily some of the main characters could be trans or gnc and i def love the hc of jon using a cane (espeically assume after the Prentiss attack when he hurt his leg and didnt have full Archavist powers yet). I wish that some of the characters were described more or we got more of their story, but i also respect leaving it open and allowing space for fans to project onto the characters. I think overall that the queer representation was brilliant and i love seeing queer rep in my fav genres. Dont get me wrong i love dramas and romantic queer media, but it hits different in a supernatural horror show. Also cannon ace jon was so so good i felt very seen as a romance loving asexual bc jon and martin interactions were exactly how i feel about partners ive had. Im ranting a bit but i have so many thoughts after binging this show and i just adore it and all it's characters. Great vid and i love seeing im not along in a lot of my thoughts on this.

I didn’t know about the fandom criticizing on the Daisy is lesbian thing. That feels really really disingenuous especially considering what Jonathan Sims has said about why he will not say yes or no to Daisy being gay. Minor spoilers if not caught up: Oh god to accurate on the theory count

You’re probably right about Jon’s death but oH GOD NO, I LOVE HIM TOO MUCH Also the fact you don’t have more subscribers is stupid

I really like this analysis, and I feel like most of the points still stand even after the end of the show.

Do you know of The Mechanisms, a band that includes Jon Sims (writer/va/game designer) as well as the voice actors for Basira, Nikola, and that pest control guy. Very q33r sci-fi retellings of classic stories. That all end in tragedies. And are quite violent (but no sexual violence!).

Listening to this after 179 h u r t s. RIP :(

It’s very funny to me to watch this after the end of the podcast

THANK YOU I WAS SO CONFUSED ABOUT JONATHAN SIMS AND JONATHAN SIMS

Asexual John gave me so much life

Came back to this and this discourse is hella funny because the only survivors were 2 canon and 1 heavily coded queer women

I personally understood jon as sex-indifferent. But at that point it's an issue. I am just happy to have representation .

so i was rewatching this video and i just noticed the OpenDyslexic you used throughout and , as a dyslexic person, i really appreciate that , thank you💜

How does this only have so little views? I love it. "Are you happy, you insufferable Victorian prick?"

Hell, now that I know there are queer characters and that it's a cosmic horror podcast, I'm gonna go listen to the podcast. Remind me to check back when I'm done listening to it

This is a very well thought-out analysis, and very well presented! I completely agree!

Great video but it is voided because you called Jonah victorian but he is from the regency era. You died on the Oregon Trail. Epic fail.

I love the series so far

shocked at how spot-on that prediction was

the virgin bury your gays versus the chad gays trapped in The Buried

Maybe I'm just sleep deprived but the analogy with Ryan and Cecil Baldwin actually killed me. I have no idea why it was so funny, but it really was

I decided that if Martin dies then Jon has to go with him. However, if Jon dies then Martin goes on as the new head of the institute or the new head archivist but I do like your theory that the audience is listening to the tapes because were the new head archivist. I don't know I'm still not done with Season 4 and I'm binge listening as fast as I can so I can make it to the finale with everyone else.

Great video! Cant get enough TMA content

First tma analysis video I have found. Thank you for making this

Okay I’m caught up now lol. This was a very good analysis and I basically just agree with everything you said. I also think there should be more trans characters though haha. Also??? I didn’t know people were being so terrible to Daisy how dare they :0

It's so funny reading these comments of these people who I think genuinely can't remember if things are canon or not.

Omg i love this! Its the first video essay I've seen on tma!

8:19 the emotion in the "my life" is sending me for some reason XD

"We buried some gays but only because we had to bury someone and everyone was gay."

How dare you not mention the homophobic vase

Watching this after listening to episode 179: 👁️👄👁️

I feel like it's not burying your gays if it's given the same weight as other character deaths and if it's relevant to the plot. As long as they're not obviously being killed off because they're queer...

“because i love them” yeah same

I don't think banishment of the entities is really an option. For it to feel earned the consequences for the cast would have to be truly awful. And I think the entities are simply too big. They have been around for at least 4000 years and it is implied they have been around since there where humans. The watcher's crown could only succeed because the entities wanted it to succeed and I think it can only be reversed with help from an entity. It is cosmic horror, humans have to be insignificant and unable to change anything. Hell, in all of season five Jon has been unable to make any meaningful change. Sure he can kill Avatars and change those being watched into watcher but the vast majority of humanity still suffers and is trapped in hellish fear prisons.

Nooo I can’t watch it till I’m caught up, only 7 more episodes to go XD

I dont consider it a bury your gays if its a tragedy, point blank. Their ending was always intended to be tragic

I realise that this video was posted a year ago but PLEASE TALK ABOUT WELCOME TO NIGHT VALE

Wow I read this title to times. I just now realized the word grays wasn't in there.

i am so anxious for the end of tma, i love this show and the rep it has (despite 98% of the trans rep being headcanon). i really want a lovely happy ending but i know that clearly wont happen, i just hope its not too devasting

very well made and thoughtful video! My only criticism is that the audio quality could be improved a bit :)

Bury your gays? No, send them to The Buried!

i would love to hear your opinions on the end 👀

When all your characters a gay, all your deaths are gonna be buried gays

Both gorgie and melonie are bi or pan not lesbian because melonie thorght the guy from 86 was attractive

Arguably fifteen entity's with the apocalypse one semi confirmed

Ooo here we go!

one thing you got wrong but im not sure if it was known when you were making this video. People can die only in The End domain which still means you were right that everyone would die and its a closed system but it would be more like 3000 years into the future rather than like 80

hey, what do you think about daisy having or not having a redemption arc, especially since when she was in police she did stuff that where awfull. Is that excused by her being controlled by the hunt?

17 mins and 4 seconds of happy listen :)

*finishes a tma episode* *opens youtube to find this video*

TFW John and Martin are a couple now.

I really enjoyed this! Especially your last section; I’m also making a video about the LGBT elements in this show, and I’d love to quote you from around 14:00 onward, if you’re okay with that? I have a pretty similar outlook on the series

how were you some how completly on point??

I would say that as long you have both hetro and gay main cast who dies. But I don't know that much about this trope. So please teach me

Hey I am letting every Ace creator I know that the Aces are invading Denmark we have a discord and a subreddit

How're y'all feeling about Oh... Hello?

Lets be honest if the entities existed in our universe a new one would pop up every weak given all the constant new fear mongering of literally any and everything

Wait, which characters were alluded to at the beginning? Two dead queer characters, one of whom is an antagonist. Tim and Peter? Tim and... Graham? Tim and??? ? ?

Wait aren't Elias and Peter ex husbands??

Wasn't Jerry both dead and gay?

I think Nikola Orsinov counts as trans? (If we can even think of them as remotely human)

The sexualities did not matter to the series. Hell, bringing romance into it detracted from the story. Making either important drastically detracted from the actual work. The fact that John winds up not really human, isn’t enhanced by this, it’s kind of pushed aside for it. If it ended at season four, would’ve been grand. The sexuality and romance is the capstone, they get their happy enough ending. But it had no place in the overall narrative.