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what is this, a crossover episode?!

Missed a major point with Michael. We don't see him go through the door and Eleanor warns him that the system might not be the same by the time he dies. He says that not being sure what will happen is the most human thing of all. So it's not all just clean answers.

I don't think that The Good Place wrapped up with comforting answers. It didn't tell us where it all ends, or what happens "after". It made us feel more comfortable with the thought of not knowing. That's tremendous, because I think the thing that worries us most about death isn't death itself, but the idea of not existing in the way we know.

I feel like you should've also addressed Bojack's last words to Diane in the dream. Bojack: what do I do now? Diane: It doesn't matter. Bojack: Well if it doesn't matter...could I stay on the phone with you at least? Diane: Okay... Yes Life and Death are both equally meaningless, but it's because none of that stuff has any inherent meaning to it, that makes how we spend the time we have left significant. If we're all gonna die anyway, why not spend the time we have left with the people we love, doing the things that make us happy?

I remember seeing both series finales on the same night. Couldn’t sleep that night. 10/10. Not recommended.

I don't know man, I just don't think that bojack's ending was that depressed and the good place was so simple. I mean, bojack ended with the note that you turn yourself around, no matter how hard life is, you do the Holkey pokey dance, and you start again, which doesn't mean it's easy, but you gotta do it every day. That's not so different from TGP when they say that at the moment when Michael starts living as a human, there's going to be good days and bad days, and that the fact that we don't know what's waiting for us makes for a better life, because that way we will be constantly trying to change ourselves, and that's the beauty of it. Anyway, they were great endings because it was faithful to the both the show's theme and overall tone. The fact that one ended on a higher and more positive note doesn't make it for a more inferior one, it was just a different approach, a different way for viewing life.

Are you saying BoJack’s take on the troops was wrong? Because, uh, it wasn’t.

Great timing to talk about death.

Between the two shows, I think this is why I’m an optimistic nihilist. Nihilist (Bojack) in that believing there is no grand plan or meaning to anything, but Optimistic (The Good Place) that because of this fact we have the ability to create or ascribe our own meaning to this life, and that’s a beautiful notion to me.

I was literally going to write an article for my tutors magazine about how Bojack horseman and the good place explore the same concepts in different ways. Wisecrack you are a blessing!

I don't care how many times I watch that snip of herb saying "No... Bojack. There is no other side. This is it," as he gets slimed into the abyss. I always cry a little.

I guess that the good place's format lends to its happier ending, but I think that by writing it off as a sitcom with a dumb sappy ending kinda undercuts everything else the show talks about

I think you're underplaying the nuance in The Good Place's ending. Firstly I'd barely describe it as a sitcom, and more of a comedic adventure. Secondly how is it not subverting usual TV tropes by having 3 of their 4 human characters accept death and just cease to be. If we're talking sappy sitcom endings, it would have ended on the episode where they get into the Good Place and they live hapoily ever after. The Good Place pushed the boundary of what a comedic show could be and incorporated philosophy in a comedic and relatable way. I think you're doing it a disservice by just dismissing it as dumb trashy sitcom, and this is coming from someone who loves both shows.

This reminds me of the last paragraph in The great Gatsby “Gatsby believed in the green ligth, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us.It eluded us then, but that is no matter - tomorrow will run faster, stretch our arms farther...And one fine morning- So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past”

The good place’s ending was a little clean and easy but the show had a nuanced take on death. To say a happy and resolved ending is less then Bojack’s ending seems a little reductive I really love both shows a lot and both felt incredibly human

2 problems. 1 the bojack ending wasn't really all that dark, or even open ended. I think the last season was about the growth of everyone around bojack more than just bojack himself. The separation from him and the need to heal themselves. I think bojack himself needed everyone to leave him behind, and prison was the only way they would, or in the words of another great philosophical cartoon "some niggas just need to go to jail" 2. The idea that the good place ending was in some way less smart because it was positive is kind of cynical. Yeah not everyone is eleanor but not everyone is bojack either. The idea of ending an eternity of joy and leaving behind everyone you know and knew because you found your own inner peace sounds more like eastern philosophy and I think through that lens the true depth of the last season can be found. Especially because the end result and the way the system ended being run was reincarnation. The main characters reaching nirvana was the best conceivable ending. Great video tho

Man, I was not emotionally prepared for the last episode of The Good Place when I watched it. When you think about the pretty simple premise with which the show originally started, and all the twists and turns it went through, to end up in that spot.... Truly amazing.

What is this a crossover episode💖💖💖

I feel like you were too harsh on The Good Place in the last quarter. Just because a show offers an answer to a big philosophical question does not mean it is pandering to the audience. Sure, nihilism claims that that anyone offering answers is pandering to their audience, but that is one school of though out of hundreds. You entire argument for why The Good Place is pandering is basically to point out that it is a sitcom, and then assert that all sitcoms pander. You are literally taking an entire genera and writing it off as inherently worthless. Rewatch the last part of the video and notice how little you actual talk about the content of The Good Place when criticizing it. Sure, you talk about the creators and the genera, but you never say that much about what actually happens in the show itself. If a show is pandering to the audience, then you should give me example in the show where that happens. You even start the segment with the loaded question, "[W]hy did The Good Place end on **simple** answers, and why did BoJack end with open questions?" You never defend your claim that The Good Place is giving "simple answers", you just assume it is true and move on. Worse, you blatently twist Dan Harmon's argument suit your own needs. He claims that producers profit from complacent and lazy viewers, so they choose to air shows that inspire that attitude. This line of reasoning applies equally well to comedies hosted by television networks as to dramas hosted by streaming services. Yet you ignore this and only apply the quote to The Good Place, offering no explanation for why the same pressure to make uncomplicated shows was not faced by the creators of BoJack. Also, notice that he was talking about a trend. He was not claiming that it is impossible for T.V. shows to be deep, only that a pressure is faced by people working in the industry to make their shows shallow. You completely misrepresent this nuanced argument in order to make a blunt hammer, which you needed to smash The Good Place into the 2-D, meaningless shell you wanted it to be so BoJack would look better in comparison. Next time you want to talk about how someone's background as a play-write influenced their show, just do it. There is no need throw a different show under the bus first.

can we all take a moment to appreciate the fact that Lisa Kudrow guest-starred on both shows?

This episode should be called "Our Opinion on the meaning of death" cause holy shit that was biased af

14:26 - 14:37 "Sure, there's no grand purpose to our existence but that doesn't mean we can't attempt to create one for ourselves. And the artist who distills their vision of the world onto a canvas or stage is perhaps the most free of all." new favourite quote :)

The inevitability of death is not what scares us it is the fact that we cannot choose when it happens

fantastic timing, I’ve been thinking about bojack all day

4:01 a real Bojack-style tongue twister

I've been waiting SO LONG for Jared to cover the ending of Bojack

Not having answers is much better than the suicidal depressing answers of the good place.

I believe life and death have meaning, but I also acknowledge that there are alot of unknowns and that human psychology tries to fill up those holes because the unknown is in and of itself, terrifying

I was really surprised that you talked down on the good place. To call it disingenuous I think reflects your philosophical disagreement with the show than it does about its genuineness. I thought both were great shows for different reasons. It seems like you disliked the show simply because it was optimistic and provided "answers" while Bojack was more up to interpretation. But clearly the Good Place is just a fiction, and they point to how ridiculous humanity is and what the afterlife could be, but it doesn't seem to be laying it down as fact. Hopefully you're not as pessimistic as it makes you seem. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Also optimistic nihilism ftw

I still believe this notion that death gives meaning to life is just another reassuring illusion, nothing but sour grapes. "Oh, yeah, we're inevitably mortal, but we wouldn't like to live forever anyway". How could we know for sure? There's no point of comparison. It's not like we could have a control group... "Let's interview 500.000 mortal people, then 500.000 immortal people, and see which group is happier". The desire for purpose is a human construct, ok, life has no "inherent" meaning, fine, that IS potentially despairing, sure, but there's nothing we can do about it but try to find ways to cope. We may only decide what is meaningful to us, in our microcosms, even though there is no definite, objective answer, given by mortality or otherwise, and that’s it. Most of the time, we're lying to ourselves when we say we're seeking meaning; in fact, maybe we know dawn well that we’re just seeking comfort in face of an obviously meaningless universe, and the concept of death as the point of life is just another safety blanket, as valid (and imaginary) as any other.

“Everything must have an end”. One piece: Pathetic!!!

There was a pretty disturbing ad at the end of the video implicating the Nazis had developed clean energy but the knowledge would have been "suppressed". I don't know if you have any power over the ads, but if you do, please do something against conspiracy-theorists like gaia/deepspace.

I just started watching both of these shows a few years ago and they've quickly risen up the ranks of my favorite shows, with Bojack actually becoming my new favorite show. As summarized by this video, they both helped me process death in different ways and I'm grateful to have experienced both of these incredible stories

Given that all the characters died, how does The Good Place provide a sitcom ending? Seems to me like they put their money where their philosophical mouth is: Death gives life meaning. Great video by the way.

Zach Braff was the waiter in Bojack's dinner with the dead because Zach Braff died in the show.

A few more weeks of this quarantine and Jared would be bagged by the Tiger King people

why do you write off the good place's positive ending, and yes parks and recs happy ending, as just because its hollywood? How about looking at the very intentional use of idealism INFORMED by past cycles of oppression and general existentialism? I can see a whole argument of how the Good Place is a very intentional example and reiteration of metamodernist TV, of a very cyborg earnestness present in parks and rec but only now getting that echo.

I really hope this channel does something to argue against nihilism and existentialism cause it seems to be the position they take automatically.

Both of these shows are forking masterpieces. The kind of stories Hollywoo wishes it could make.

I love a lot of points in this video, but the point about TV shouldn’t leave you in a crisis doesn’t quite mesh with the idea of how sitcoms & TV work. The point of a story is to take you along w/ it. To provide a message or a takeaway. Stories hinge on conflict. When you’re in crisis you have to eventually get to the point where you resolve or work through it. So I don’t see an issue in a show having a neat resolution, so long as it has an actual meaningful message that has some ring of truth in the journey of the story. A good show should be able to put you in crisis in the episode & provide you w/ tools to derive meaning. I do feel a lot of sitcoms are overly simplistic in their endings to the point of being derivative. Though I feel like the good place grapples better w/ existential ideas of eternity, Bojack does push us to make most of time we have, and it’s more applicable as death can come from anywhere. Not everyone gets to go out on their own choice in this plane of existence. Maybe the good place could have gone darker like Bojack... I’m not quite sure, just like everyone else

"If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do." TV's Angel

My favorite moment from The Good Place is the Season 2 finale. Eleanor puts genuine effort into being a good person all on her own yet gets discouraged when nothing gets better. It's not until she gets a friendly suggestion from Michael that Eleanor realizes that she can't do it alone works up the nerve to finally ask for help.

While The Good Place does have a relatively clean and feel good ending, I think there's more to it than that. It definitely lends itself to the sitcom happy ending, concluding character arcs in a satisfying way. I personally believe that that doesn't make the show more any more shallow. It still explores what it means to be a good person and leaves us to ponder the answer. The closest thing we get to answer to what makes one good is the vague idea that we should try our best to be good. Bojack Horseman is relatively deeper in exploring its philosophies and is not limited by the sitcom format. BH constantly finds itself changing formats now and then like the Free Churro episode in contrast with the episode where Bojack is underwater. One contributor why BH has multiple chances to break through this format is due to what you said in the video. BH is a Netflix show. It doesn't have the TV limitations that the good place has and feels less "sitcom-like" than TGP. I believe that TGP still has a pretty good exploration of morality through wack sitcom situation. Though it may be limited by being a TV show and a sitcom, it finds a host of ways to use the genre to its advantage to have the characters find closure. It may not be as deep as BH, but I'd say it's not as shallow as the video implies it to be. BH, on the other hand, I think had a bit more creative freedom. It is not only a comedy and sitcom deconstruction, but it is also a satire. This allows for the show to be more philosophical and meta than TGP coupled with the freedom of the animation medium to use a variety of techniques that are difficult in live television. Not to mention that the show was meant to deconstruct a sitcom.

My two favorite analysis channels collaborating on videos about two of my favorite TV shows ever. You guys made my day!

I like to think that the Good Place's message involves being "readied" for whatever comes next. Like a baby in the womb we have no idea what the next phase is going to be like and it's the fear of the unknown that drives us. The plan could have been for the system to be set up the way it was so people who were ready would get to walk through the gate at the end. Maybe the real world and then afterlife is like that as well. Hard to say. One thing I believe is that it'll be incomprehensible to what we know now. Whether any kind of faith plays into that is up to you.

This is THE video I’ve been waiting for since January 31st! Thank you guys! Greetings from Brazil!

"Wouldn't it be funny if this night was the last time we ever talked to each other?"

Is it, terrifying? "No i dont think so. It's just the way it is, ya know? Everything must come to an end, the drip fianlly stops."

THE best dream sequence ever in any media!

The Take and Wisecrack are two my favourite minds on the internet. I love that they keep referencing each other's work.

Wisecrack and The take collaborating? What is this a crossover episode?!

I don't agree with this one. And I'm always fanboying Wisecrack, but I can't help but feel the influence this pandemic and its effects it has over us socially and individually. I feel that and other personal factors steered this video. Life's has bitchy moments. Same as it has good ones. Choose how you want to see it. You ain't wrong. There is no meaning to our existence but we're here. We came from happenstance. How fucking cool is that?!

I love how Pheobe from FRIENDS is talked about very much in the good place, then the actor of her shows up! Ironic isn't it?

I've enjoyed both you guys and the Take for awhile. Glad you all are supporting each other.

17:40 very ironic considering the good place made me go through several existential crises and bojack horseman not at all lmaoo

Oh, God. I thought all the seasons of The Good Place were on Netflix, so I watched the three seasons. There's a fourth season. I thought S3: E12 was the end. I shouldn't have been here....Michael, erase my memory of what I saw here

Dear Jared, you and your team's content gives me an incredible faith in humanity especially during this terrible and testing time. I truly am grateful for your work through all these years. Thank you!

Imagine all the people watching in the future and just can't understand the toilet paper reference

Nothing beats learning about existential philosophy at 3:00 AM during quarantine. Isn't like I have anything to do tomorrow anyways. Can just screw up my circadian rhythm because I don't have anything to do anymore but sleep and watch Wisecrack.

Man, I'm feeling a bit depressed lately. *watches an episode of Wisecrack* Oh hey! IT GETS WORSE!

3:18 Read that book. On the beach. The perfect beach read...

I binged all of Bojack just to watch this youtube video. Then I waited for a few months until the Good Place's last season went on Netflix. Then I forgot about it until KZfaq reminded me. Totally worth it.

Two of the most legit and skilled channels doing a team up! Love the analyses from you guys.

No one: Jared: Bob Woksberg Loved the episode wisecrack👊😀🤔

Jared: how can I talk about existential dread during a pandemic? I know… I’ll reach into the sitcom bin.

Awesome collab, The Take and Wisecrack are my 2 favorite Tv/film analysis channels

The way you described The Good Place made it sound like it's Angel Beats all over again

Oh good I just finished season 4 of the good place just yesterday .....

The problem with the whole "death gives life meaning" argument, is that it's not actually "death" that gives life meaning, it's the fear of death, and once that fear has done that, there's absolutely no reason to follow through with dying. Like, even if the thought that you will one day die has given meaning to every single thing in your life, at the end of the day, at any given moment, you would always choose to live rather than die. You wouldn't kill yourself just to satisfy your younger self's belief that your death will give them meaning, that doesn't make any sense. Those experiences are over, you not dying isn't going to retroactively change them.

Love that you guys did a collab with the take. Awesome channel

You should do a video on The Expanse and it's connection to Don Quixote

I think Jared is being quite a bit biased in this episode. Bojack Horseman is not realistic just because it’s daring to be existentially pessimistic in a TV show. Life is not about pessimism and optimism. This is EXACTLY what this video missed. Extremely disappointed with this, Wisecrack. Thumbs down.

The ending of Good Place and Bojack reminded me of this anime I watched as a kid: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haibane_Renmei Would love to see your take on this anime's philosophy. I hope this happens!

this is the first video of yours I've watched. it's so well made that I didn't even realise it's 20 mins long. also 19:40 😂

I binged all of Bojack Horseman after watching this video the first time just to get it. Thank you.

desires and motivations will be different in heaven from what we used to in life.. that's the basic idea.. we start wrong when we try to comprehend the incomprehensible There are somethings in life that our brains can't be aware of, and the idea of immortality is one of them.

OH YEAH MY FAVOURITE VIDEO ESSAYISTS AND MY FAVORITEEESTS SHOWS I LOVE YOU MWAH

It just kinda sucks that people think after you die you just cease to exist. Cuz I know your meant to enjoy life and living. but while you would want rest you would still want to explore and learn more. Like an afterlife. Of infinite opportunities.

My two favorite channels collaborating on a video on two of my favorite shows? Damn, it's a good day.

Lmao, acting like people can’t be satisfied with their lives and how they end.

Im not a big fan of the conclusion bojacks answer was more true than the good places......

This is what I needed to start working on my B.A seminary paper in my "meaning of life" course. Thanks, wisecrack!

Is it just me who gets chills when I hear "the view from half way down"?

I respect a show that attempts to answer hard questions like The Good Place, rather than just leaving it up in the air like Bojack. The Good Place had a silly sitcom feel, but the idea that death gives life meaning is an interesting one, and a subversive one. Whereas "life has no meaning" is just kind of stale. Maybe it's the media I consume, but I feel like the latter point is beaten over my head constantly, yet it is just as didactic as the philosophies it claims to subvert. I love both shows, but where we ended up on one show's merits over the other seemed to come down to Wisecrack's personal preferences for dark, existential philosophy and art rather than an even-handed rational debate between the two worldviews. Their argument boiled down to "Well, you can't expect good philosophy out of a sitcom. It's too happy and commercial. Theater is far superior, and Bojack is more like theater. Ergo, Bojack wins." I enjoyed comparing the two worldviews in this format, but I don't know why Wisecracked bothered supporting one over the other if they weren't going to actually prove it. Why not let people choose for themselves which argument won rather than showing your hand?

An dull infinity is still dull. A interesting infinity is amazing. Think back to the time before you knew you were bound to die, You were still happy.

That Bojack episode still haunts me. Damn that frightening secreteriat poem

I'll take The Good Place's take, thanks.

But... most of the troops are jerks.

“Jorge Luis Borges’ short story ‘the immortal’” sounds like a Princess Carolyn tongue twister.

Princess carolyn being a pink cat and her initials being p and c is pretty cool character design. And a meta inside joke.

The whole "death gives life meaning" Just doesn't make sense to me, death doesn't give life meaning, it gives you a deadline (no pun intended) Almost every single stressful situation i can keep thinking of is due to a constant pressure to achieve things before you die, get an education, a job, a family, a home, a big car, then die surrounded by people you love, maybe if you're lucky you get to achieve a dream or two. But in a world where death wasn't the end of things, why should i rush to become an architect or engineer before 20? I could spend the first 40 years of my life working odd-jobs and traveling the worlds, without worry of missing out on other things in life, I wouldn't be "too old" I'd just be another soul with stories to tell. We'd be able to achieve our dreams in our time, rather than playing it safe risking dying in regret.

“Who dares to love forever~ forever is our today.” Freddie Mercury

Wisecrack + the take 🙌🏼

Great vid man. This is easily one of the more important channels on youtube, not only for the content you bring but the comments on these vids too. While I'm going along my journey reading them and simultaneously thinking about what I think I find more answers than if I'd just do one or the other on their own.

I disagree with the fact that death is what makes care for the most part about others. There are so many people who die every year in the world, do they add meaning to our lives? It is actually empathy and feeling someone's prolonged suffering or pain that urges people to stop that suffering or lessen it and to care about the other person. After all, death is a release from pain, so why would I care if someone dies, as opposed to someone who is suffering but still alive? It is not death in itself that gives life meaning, it is pain, struggle, and suffering.

"Death gives meaning to life." mmm. No.The idea that you can find no motivation nor aspiration without death fundamentally ignores the human experience. We aren't even aware of death until many years in to our lives, for most people (especially in the first world). Even then, it takes a long time to truly grasp that *you* can die. And yet, somehow, children are able to be motivated and have fun and play games and make friends and act with empathy (and animosity) towards others. If death were so important, why do people seek to avoid death? (Obviously, it's the biological impulse. But point remains that we are but biological creatures.) Now, the method of immortality would make a difference in how we act, obviously. For example, an eternal, crippling aging process or Dead Pool-ian regeneration, that essentially turns your life in to a living hell would in all likelihood break the human psyche, and morality would break down. If, however, it's the Golden Utopia view of immortality, but with otherwise neurotypical people (still feel emotions, pain, etc, it just doesn't really hinder them physically)...then there's no implicit reason for moralities to change. People would still get painfully bored sitting in a pit, and people can empathize, even if they think that there's an eternity to live. (Heat death of the universe not withstanding.) Now, people *do* need meaning in their lives in order to feel fulfilled. They need a sense of accomplishment. A sense of belonging. Which helps explains these political cults of late, which do give the veneer of doing something noble, holy even - of fighting evil - of being a part of something bigger. People will turn anything in to a religion, whether it's space daddies or patriarchy. But once that's reintegrated as an essential part of psychology, and tied with the Western liberty-minded view, there is no reason why it has to be as hostile and toxic as it currently is.

I am truly glad you made this.

I love how the Good Place finale aired the night before the Bojack last season. It was nice watching both back to back, especially with the door thing

Interesting thoughts, a bit heavy on the BoJack fanboy train though lol.