Based on the evidence presented, I think it is Wendigoon who is responsible for these disappearances.

@ 27:23 I have to disagree with you here, I think someone's grandmother would be about four times more effective at attempting to find their grandson.

Garrets case always surprises me because I haven’t heard very much questioning of the dads story. Not saying he was involved it just seems like reasonable due diligence to consider the possibility that he was not telling the truth and harmed him somehow, especially since the initial search wasn’t done by LE but by scouts. I really hope they figure out what happened to him some day

Something else to consider, the people that aren't acclimated to high elevations. It may not seem like a big deal, but it can absolutely kick your butt, make you irritable, and possibly disoriented if you're really struggling with it. Olympic athletes come to the Rockies to train because of the elevation. I've seen at least two touring performers have to stop mid-show because the elevation was making it impossible for them to breath. One of them was Lemmy. I'm an experienced high elevation hiker and couldn't make it halfway up an "easy" foothill hike after being at sea level for three years. So, combine extreme cold and high elevation with an inexperienced hiker/skier, and I could see them getting in trouble if they get separated from a group.

Will never understand splitting up from the group. If something happens by yourself that’s one thing, but to diverge from the perceived safety of a large group to go at it alone is a mind numbingly stupid move. Start together finish together.

The idea of being one of the last people to interact with someone who completely disappears is haunting. Imagining being Garret’s father or the friends Jim went skiing with (or literally in anyone who saw the people before they disappeared) is horrifying. How often do they think about how things could have ended differently if they had done something slightly different? That’s got to weigh really heavily on those people.

When I was younger, 12 or so, my family went camping in a state forest with my cousins and some of their friends. While my younger brother and I were exploring the trails with another kid, I saw my dad through the trees, gesturing angrily for me to follow him as he walked further into the woods. It was very much him, wearing his favorite shirt and his workout glasses. My brother and the kid didn’t see him, but my brother believed me. We tried not to make our dad angry when we could avoid it, but the kid wanted to go back. We watched him leave the woods and get pretty close to camp before we crossed through the trees to the trail dad was on and followed it to the end, a lakeside beach. He wasn’t anywhere. We started looking around to see where he could have gone when my dad, in a different shirt and his reading glasses, stormed down the trail behind us and started shouting. He’d been at camp the whole time, and was livid we’d sent that kid back alone to go down a path he hadn’t approved of ahead of time. Later that week, my cousin and I had to bolt up a sandy cliff-thing for a half a mile or so to escape from some weird guy who was following us, so my brother just chalked it up to me not getting a good look at the man we followed through the thick trees and actually seeing that weird stalker, but I know what I saw. Whatever we followed, it looked just like my dad. I still can’t explain it, but I’m glad we stopped going there.

For Garret's disappearance I've always wondered if the dad accidentally told his son he was going down the wrong turn, a quick memory lapse, so when he "corrected" Garret, he accidentally sent his son down the wrong turn. If Garret was expecting to see camp soon I can imagine his mind wandering (or concentrating on his wet feet) and by the time he realised he should have arrived, he'd walked some distance. Doesn't explain why he wouldn't just turn around, nor why he didn't respond to shouting, but if they searched in the wrong direction to start the rain might have washed away evidence of him being elsewhere. Such a tragic case.

Idk if anyone mentioned it but Tatiana and Tanya are the same name in ru, Tatiana is a full form and Tanya is a shorter version you'd use when talking to a child or - in a casual setting - to someone u r already very familiar w(a friend, a relative, sometimes maybe an old acquaintance). So Tatiana is Tanya

Me alone at a National Park, at 2 pm, without checking the weather, or personal locator beacon, near a body of water, in an area where others have gone missing, etc *"Mr. Paulides, I don't feel so good"*

As a Canadian, I can confirm that the Mounties are practically useless. Thanks for the wonderful video!

I lived in Salt Lake City when Garret went missing. I remember hearing one theory about his vanishing that suggested he'd wandered off to fish a stream coming out of Cuberant Lake, and became disoriented. He wandered around some looking for the trail once more, only to have it start to rain. It's theorized that he took shelter in an old mine (that area is littered with them), and fell through an open shaft.

I love how you guys are open to admitting oversight or being wrong and often actually drop revisions and have a open door policy for critique. My favorite "Pseudoscience Channel" 👌🏾

I think one thing that gets overlooked, or maybe just not adequately addressed, when talking about these kinds of cases, is that people just don't act logically much of the time, especially under duress/stress/etc. We all try to explain possible behavior of these people in these situations, but the simple truth is, the vast majority of the time, other people just don't act in a way most of us would consider logical. And that's not even taking into account panic, anxiety, mental health issues, whatever. We try to explain behavior because we desperately need to believe we are rational creatures; we simply are not. There are still going to be plenty of cases that aren't explained by this, but the truth is, we'll never actually know what happened in most of these situations purely because we are not the person that was there.

I wonder, is there 100% confirmed by other people that Garret really left his father side? Not wanting to accuse an innocent person, but it just baffles me that it sounds like nobody took it as a possibility?

For Garrett’s case I always considered the option that it was someone he knew. Someone who was with them and who was considered trust worthy. Close enough to the case that they would have an alibi, someone no body would suspect, who took him.

With the case of the 12 year old Boy Scout Mormon, I can’t help but think that it’s a modern day Bobby Bizup. He gets close to camp and an adult counselor, probably someone he trust, brings him away, knocks him out with roofies or chloroform or something of that matter, and stashes him away until he moves him off sight and to a secondary location. Essentially I think that case is just a matter of a Predator father being in the group kidnapping the poor kid and nobody being wise to it because he was in the search

Late to the party, but on the Dr. McGrogan case, I think it was panic. Under stress I've seen people just spring into un- thought- out actions you would never expect. People that have high stress jobs often can't cope with losing control of a situation.

Honestly, I can 100% see Jim just starting off, getting lost, and continuing on 'cos "he's on an adventure". I know plenty people like that and I know they would easily bumble into some very dangerous situations without realising it.

23:53 I'm a son of a once adamant hunter, hunted quite a bit myself as a younger man. One of the absolutely most gut wrenching situations for a hunter, is knowing you fouled your shot, and you've caused unnecessary suffering. You are correct that it is a sign of respect. I've only done it once. Thankfully, I didn't wound that severely. The next weekend the same deer walked out on me and I nailed my shot. It wasn't till I collected my father and we came upon the deer that we realized..... It's been shot twice? What? Then after a few minutes of talking it out came to the conclusion it was in fact the same deer I had missed the previous weekend. Only time I've ever done that, and I almost didn't go back hunting after that. I can't describe the amount of shame I felt.

I just want to hear Aiden tell his full snowboarding story now.

In my opinion, the one particularly incomprehensible similarity shared by many Missing 411 cases, is despite how massive, thorough, professionally organized and well equipped the initial search and rescue efforts can become, how often they end up just finding nothing, no missing person, no body, or even any viable evidence, despite their valiant efforts... And then, some months or even years later, some unassuming individual or group of hikers hunters, or campers will suddenly happen upon some case breaking evidence or even the missing ones remains, seemingly at random. In cases such as this, obvious questions arise, where the hell were the missing ones during the time between the initial search efforts and when the evidence or body was found? What were they doing in that time? How had they completely eluded the massive search efforts? All of the answers to which are very likely to be as confusing and disturbing as they are horrifying.

In the case of Gareth, is it at all possible that it was actually his dad that got the trail wrong? As in Gareth was actually heading up the right trail initially and his dad made a mistake and misdirected him to the wrong trail? Maybe I’m missing something but I’ve not seen that discussed

I’ve hiked around the mountains in Vail Valley at night. The lights of Vail are such an easy reference to figure out where you are. In fact, I have rarely gotten nervous because the lights of Vail, the highway, and even the snow grooming vehicles on the ski hills are a constant reference point. The semi-trucks are also loud and give you an audible reference point for the highway.

Personally, I think a lot of the time the "searched" area wasn't really searched. Most of the time, we're talking about volunteers who may or may not be putting in their full effort and/or know what they're doing, so when asked "did you search the area," they'll be like "of course I did," when they may have just given it a cursory glance and called it a day. As for badass mountain man (I forget his name, sorry), one important fact that didn't get mentioned: It was said that no bear shit in the area had human remains. Bears can take 12 hours to a day to digest meat. A bear can cover a LOT of ground in 12 hours. So it could still be that a bear ate him. I agree that that would be unlikely, but hey... everybody gets caught with their pants down every once in a while. Maybe he literally did get caught with his pants down...

I might have said this on your original video on the subject, but the skier’s missing gloves make sense. As someone who used to do some casual winter sports, a person can get hot and sweaty even in freezing temperatures. It’s super uncomfy (and even dangerous) to sweat in heavy winter gear. I would often take off my hat, gloves, and even my jacket to keep myself cool while skiing or snowshoeing in the Alaskan wilderness as a teenager

My grandfather was involved in a search for a missing person. He worked in the oil field and when this happened he was in charge of several rigs over in the middle east. He sent a man out to relieve a driller. The route he was to take was clearly marked with 55 gallon oil drums filled with sand and painted orange with arrows point in the direction you needed to go. It was a 4 hour drive from base camp to the rig he was needing to go to and every truck was equipped with 50 gallons of gas and 10 gallons of water, 2 spare tires and a manual on what to do if you got lost or stranded. Well the driller called my grandfather that night asking about when his relieve eoukd arrive. The guy should have been there by noon anx it was already nightfall. The next morning they got some planes in the air and began looking for this guy. They searched the north, east and west, everywhere he could have reasonably gotten that truck. When the sir search failed to find this guy, they decided to search in an area he couldn't possably have gotten to so they sent out 3 man teams in trucks with 200 gallons of gas, 100 gallons of water, 2 weeks of food, 2 employees and 1 local who could speak English and perfect Arabic. One of these teams encountered a trade caravan who's leader told the local interpreter they had spotted a truck matching their own farther to the south. When they got there, they found his body under the truck, he died of heat exhaustion. Turns out he found out he had cancer so he drove off into the desert to die so his wife could sue the company claiming how they didn't have navigation equipment installed on the trucks. Moral of this story, you shouldn't assume something is mysterious just because it's unlikely to happen. Even his wife had no idea he was going to off himself like that.

@TheLoreLodge, a takeaway I got from this video that I agree with is that some of these disappearances most likely occurred because of a human being the one to cause the harm or danger to the person who went missing. However, I think we aren’t giving enough thought into the idea of hunting mishaps, it happens more often than you think that two random people are hunting in the same area, wearing camouflage and no orange, one mistakes the other for a deer or prey and shoots them. If this happens in a really isolated location, and nobody knows that the person who injured the other was there, they very well might just hide the body and leave. Like a “if a tree falls down in the forest and nobody is there to see it, did it really fall?” type scenario. Anyways, good video. I hope every one of these cases gets a rational explanation eventually.

Only thing that comes to mind is that for the two who were never found, where there any abandoned wells around? Speaking from actual work experience near abandoned wells if you do know they are there or find them they can be very hard to see and can be in places you would never expect. If there are abandoned wells in those areas that aren't documented or known and they fell into them and died it's possible that they remain undiscovered to this day in areas searched.

I know some people complain about the history parts but those are the reason I binged most of your videos. I love when people talk about their interests and it's very clear you're passionate about history so I could listen to you talk about it for hours (and I have)

The shade against the mounties is just 👌 perfection

1:06:40 this is literally THE best theory on the matter I have ever heard. It just makes so much more sense now.

If you're looking for something new to deep dive, I would love a similar series on the Warrens' and their investigations. I personally think they were con artists but you guys always manage to find information other KZfaqrs miss so I'd be interested in hearing them get the Lore Lodge treatment. Similar to how you covered Missing 411 cases and then did the video on Pauliades and his research, history, credibility, etc.

I have another theory for Barts death, but not necessarily his remains. An Aneurysm. I say this cause he apparently wasn't at risk for a heart attack or stroke, but an aneurysm can occur with anyone at any age, more common 30-60 years (Bart was 49) and at random. Does this explain the state of his remains? No. But it's a possibility for death in an otherwise healthy person.

18:53 last time i went skiing, which was also the first time i went skiing, on my first run down the smallest slope, i managed to flip head over heels and speared myself on my ski pole - thankfully the blunt side, but directly to my heart. let's just say i didn't go down the slope again

Remind me to never go missing in Canada

Tanya is the nickname or a shortened name of Tatiyana. Like Vicky is for Victoria, or Liz is for Elizabeth. So she was probably just called Tanya as a fond name or nickname, but her official name is Tatiyana.

So about the Garrett Bradsley case. I used to work with a guy in his late 20's who's last name is also Bardsley and one time while talking to him he told me that he was from Utah and that he had to escape the cult of the Mormon church and come to California. Now I don't think the Bardsley guy I knew was Garrett, but same last name and both from Utah and roughly the same age......Got me thinking: why if Garrett was only going to change his wet socks would he take his fishing pole with him only to have to carry it back? It seems to me that Garrett had already planned on not coming back and just maybe the reason he went the wrong direction before his father corrected him was that he needed to go that way bc it was how he was going to escape. Maybe he switched back once out of his father's sight and just maybe he had a plan to escape the cult of the Mormon church just like the Bardsley kid I used to work with . BTW about the found sock. What 12 year old boy wears the same size sock as an adult volunteer? there should had been a size difference even if many people have identical nike socks.

The most suspicious aspect of Garret's disappearance is that he took his fishing pole with him. Why would he do that if, as stated in newspaper articles, he was going to come straight back after he changed his wet things and catch a fish for breakfast? The fishing tackle was already all set up at the lakeside but he takes his pole with him? I'm not buying that. Did they search for Garrett and his pole in the water? Because that's where I think he'll be

I've watched a lot of these missing videos. What I've come to believe is that even though search teams do their level best... when you are dealing with the wilderness, it's simply impossible to look under every rock and tree, in every crevice and ravine. Additionally, I believe people - and especially children - are capable of traveling much much further over tough terrain that anyone imagines. I've come to these conclusions from the many stories of people who are eventually found. Thoughts on these cases: Jim McGrogan was clearly frustrated with how slow his friends were traveling, otherwise he would have stayed with them. They left at 8am and didn't arrive at the cabin until 5:30 pm? That's 9.5 hours to travel 7 miles... so about 80 min per mile - pretty slow considering a leisurely paced walk can do a mile in about 20 min. Granted they are going uphill, but still 4x slower? Anyway my point is at that pace, it's entirely possible they might not have reached the turnoff yet. If Jim believed he was on the right trail, and knew his destination was miles away, it's plausible he could carry on quite a ways before questioning himself. His phone call might simply have been him taking a break and checking in with his buddies on their progress and nothing to do with thinking he was lost. He would have had 5+ hours of travel time before the lights of Vail became visible. That's plenty of time to travel 4.5 miles. And if it was growing dark and he was tired from hiking all day, then it might have been tougher to discern a trail, yet he could have simply kept pushing feeling that he must be close to his destination. If he did begin to suspect he was lost, then moving out of the trees and close to the edge of a cliff to get a clear vantage point makes sense. A tired, inexperienced skier in unfamiliar terrain at twilight, sadly he slipped on the ice and fell. Stacy Arras: I think the key to this one is she went off to take pictures. She may have had the camera to her face, trying to frame a photo and backed up or moved sideways without looking at her feet or the terrain. If TikTok has taught us anything, a 14 year old girl isn't thinking about tripping when she's solely focused on getting a good picture. I believe she took a misstep and either fell into ravine or rolled down a dangerous hill to her death. Given the dense foliage of the area, the places she would most likely have fallen would also be the toughest to search. Bart Schleyer: What's unusual about this one is the remains of part of his skull and a few small bones were found only 19 days after he was last seen. So if he died where he was found, nature made quick work of his remains. They said there were no signs of a struggle and he was found on moss. The moss part intrigues me. I imagine any blood from an attack would have been quickly absorbed by moss, leaving little sign. He might have tussled with a bear at an undiscovered location, fought it off and then retreated to the moss where he succumbed to his wounds. Then he was scavenged. However saying no human remains were found in the bear scat in the area is inaccurate. His remains were sadly found in bear scat in the area. www.outdoorlife.com/articles/will-snyder/2007/09/scientists-remains-found-bear-scat/

It sounds to me like Garrett was trying to run away. He made a wrong turn on purpose but didn't realize his dad was watching, so he went back to take the right path and immediately went off trail. Hard to say why he'd do something like that, though.

I love your story about the hypothetical person who relied on their buddies to teach you how to snowboard n a little girl asked if you were ok, have a backstory like that myself n no, I never went skiing again

I just stumbled on this KZfaq channel today and I am now hooked. I enjoy the knowledge and insight as well as the humor that has me laughing even out loud at times.

I HIGHLY appreciate how detailed this is! I stumbled across your channel while trying to get more info on these cases, I'm slightly obsessed with them I think because I LOVE camping, hiking and exploring.

The thought of running into mountain/cave people might just be scarier than running into a cryptid when you're alone in the woods just because the former is so much easier to believe. My mind immediately snaps to that ending scene from Bone Tomahawk and that's probably the most horrifying fate I can imagine. Anyway, great video as always! Also I'm stoked to see your films down the road: Wish you both a lot of luck on that! I imagine it'll be daunting at first.

One of my profs during my undergrad psychology degree used Missing 411 to provide textbook examples of selection bias, cherrypicking, logical fallacies, and various other psychological and methodological pitfalls that tend to plague research. While individual cases may be peculiar, when it comes to the phenomenon as a whole, there is absolutely nothing mysterious about national parks _seemingly_ being overrepresented in missing persons cases. It's far easier to become lost in a forest or wilderness setting than an urban area, so in countries with these large tracts of unsettled land trafficked by tourists, missing persons cases are going to cluster around these areas. Some of the reasons are obvious, but I'll list them nonetheless because their implications are revealing: it's where large, dangerous animals live, including predators and/or scavengers to hide or scatter the remains, it's where the threat of exposure is greatest, there are numerous environments in which to get lost, lack of reliable cell coverage, it's more difficult for emergency or recovery services to access the dying or dead, there's a lack of surveillance in most areas, and it's easier for child predators to escape with their victims (disturbingly, this also likely explains the removal of the victims' clothes and why they're often folded when discovered by investigators). The presence of berries in relation to some of these disappearances is also cited by David Paulides, but if there is some statistical significance to the correlation, it really wouldn't be that surprising either. Berries are obviously common in national parks, berry-picking is often the reason people go to these locations, berry patches are a likely place to encounter bears, and it's not uncommon to pick the wrong berries. There are quite a few species that appear similar to edible varieties that even adults could confuse, but it's especially possible in the numerous cases involving young children. They can produce deliriant effects that may play a role in the victim's disorientation, or even toxic-shock and death in extreme cases, leading to their over-representation in the sample of missing persons cases. All of the above is just what came to mind and is by no means an exhaustive list. I know there's more to it than what I just mentioned, but a lot of it can be explained by a simple bias in case selection, the natural tendency for people to get lost in the wilderness, and a filling-in of the rest of the picture on top of several fairly mundane common denominators in order to make the evidence fit the predetermined conclusion, rather than the other other way around. Edit: Typos.

I've been obsessed with missing 411 since I learned about it 10 or 12ish years ago. Every answer you come up with can be disproved. It's terrifying. One thing I can tell you, be it a force or a being... it's intelligent, very very extremely terrifyingly bone chillingly intelligent

I absolutely *love* the intense amounts of sass involved in these videos. It absolutely makes the entire experience.

thank you for the paulides photos, i tend to forget what he looks like every 2 minutes

found this with 60 seconds to premiere lmao meant to be

I just found your channel and I've watched quite a few of your videos and I have to say I'm extremely impressed with the level of your research.

Lately, I’ve found so much comfort in your videos they’re the only way I can fall asleep. Thank you for your content! So grateful for this channel

First 4 mins of this video and he's already said "caves not withstanding" and I'm on the floor

You guys are really good at examining all the facts, watching all these videos most of the time the evidence leads to a mundane answer and you guys accept that. So when you say "its weird this isn't mundane" it actually means something cause you started from a perspective of wanting to find the truth rather than something crazy which is incredibly appreciated.

The missing 411 series you guys did has been one of my favourites, I keep coming back to rewatch

Hii aideen, i'm from panama and i think you should look into the case of the 2 dutch girls that dissapeared in Panama around 2014 their names were Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon , hiking up a trail in Boquete (David) called El Pianista, it is a hiking trail in a rainforest and difficult to travel, I have done it myself with a group of 8-11 people and a guide and let me state that its extremly fucking easy to get lost, or fall and die. its a very interesting case and also a sad one. everything around it is weird, from their decisions to their bodies being found, if you want the people's opinion, most think they just died from natural causes or murdered, but when you get fully into it, its very weird, but yeah I have also seen very little coverage of the case

If I put myself in Stacy’s shoes, and I’m gonna run away up in the mountains, you can bet I’d take the same horse I rode in on rather than hiking out on my own. I mean….you have a horse at your disposal, why not take it?

As someone getting a PhD in psychology, I wonder if some of these cases may be driven by some form of paranoia/psychosis. Several of these cases seem to have people making irrational decisions. Fear can make people do extreme things that make no sense, and extreme situations, such as intense cold from hypothermia, can contribute to erratic behavior. In the case of smaller children being found in places where they shouldn’t have been able to reach, they could have been dragged there by large predators, such as bears and mountain lions. Not as sure on that one, though.

Okay I just found your channel and I gotta say that I was quite impressed with your research! And thank you for the many side comments that made me laugh! I’m excited to watch more! And yes I have liked and subscribed! Keep up the good work! 😀👏👍

Good stuff! Your content is always well- thought out. My husband & I enjoy your mystery and hints of mischief as a storyteller. Plus … it’s a weird world! Thankyouverymuch!

Is there something in the case about Garrett that explains why it doesn’t seem like authorities looked into the possibility that his dad drowned him or otherwise hid his body? Were there people that could see the father and Garrett on the lake where they were fishing?

I think that Paulides doesn't honestly believe these folk were abducted by bigfoot or UFOs as much as he knows who he's selling his books and films to. He knows what kind of shows he's going on. I remember way back on his first couple of appearances on C2C (doing the first 411 books) he always stressed that he didn't believe any one thing was to blame. But, again, he knows what his audience is. He's read the room.

Dude I remember the first time I found your video. Glad to see You've come back to the 411 cases . . . I've got a lot of catching up to do 💪💪. Keep up the great work

Prayers and good will to the families of the missing

Have you ever heard of Isreal Keyes? Serial killer who eluded to “letting people come to him” and had kill kits buried in many national parks and camping areas.

Utahn here, grew up in and around the Uintas. Its pretty easy to get lost if you don't know where you're going, but I'm doubtful theres a society of humans in there. Not saying it isn't impossible, the Uintas are massive and I've only seen bits and pieces of it, but I've never even heard of anyone coming across any signs of humans doing anything outside camping or hiking.

Love all your videos and hearing your theories and thoughts.

I am in love with the fact you mentioned artyom from 2033 and the series Your videos are insanely fun to watch, your level of research and attention to detail is impressive and I enjoy hearing the stories you have to share. Keep it up

Thank you for such a great and lengthy video! As someone in their senior year of studying forensic sciences, the levels of police incompetence are insane. They are taught some of the same things we are in terms of crime scenes! It drives me insane and needs to be fixed lol

Hello lorelodge, this channel has become one of my favorite channels on KZfaq. I am very interested in the history of indigenous America and your channel does a great job teaching about it. I am from Arizona but stationed in California. I would really like to see a video about the tribes of Arizona, Navajo, Apache, Gila, etc. One thing in particular you may find interesting is the superstition mountain range located about 45 min east of Phoenix. It’s been known to have many disappearances as well as battles between the cavalry and Apache, the lost Dutchman’s gold mine, and hundreds of thousands of years of geological history. I think you would find it very interesting. A couple of channels mysteries of the superstition mountains and legend of the Superstition Mountains do a good job talking about the history of the area. Another great area to look into would be the Apache wars which took place in Arizona and northern Sonora Mexico. If you’ve never heard of The Lost Dutchman’s Gold Mine, I think you would find it interesting, as hundreds of people over the past 150 years have gone out and died/disappeared searching for it. Again I’d like to say how much I enjoy this channel and look forward to more content.

I’m so happy that I found this channel, please keep it up❤

Hi, I'm Cindy. Im from MI. I just found your channel and honestly I was impressed with your research and with how you present the cases. I also liked your sense of humor, a good sense of humor is a sign of intelligence in my humble opinion. Anyway, I subscribed and am looking forward to making my way through your content !

I believe I have mentioned this story before, but I will tell it again. I was on a hiking trip. a few younger scouts walked off and I was tasked with going and retrieving them, I found them and began walking back (admittedly too fast since I left them behind) I dont remember their being a single cut off on the trail I was on, but I walked for what feels almost 4 times the distance before coming out of a different exit (to the same place I was originally heading back to) then the one I entered from. I have not and most likely never will understand how I got lost in those woods edit: just want to clarify, I got "lost" after leaving the other boys behind. and was thusly not following the buddy system

Just wanted to say: I love this channel! Not only is it very informative, it's also somehow very comforting to watch your videos. Keep up the good work!

Given Bart Schleyer’s physique I wouldn’t say heart problems would be unlikely. In other words I speculate he may have had a steroid habit.

i don’t have any analysis to comment but i can’t stop thinking about one detail from garrett’s case: that it was “the last weekend of the season before school started up” just breaks my heart; the weight of the timing of the camping trip would crush me if i were his father---my heart goes out to his family; his complete disappearance given his bright clothing and the relatively populated state of his surroundings makes his the most chilling of these 5, in my opinion, besides him being the youngest of them as well; another great video 💖

Nice work man! Been watching a lot of your content, especially missing 411 stuff.

Hi Aidens, I enjoyed the video. Thank you for reviewing these cases. The fishing rod thing drives me nuts. He would have to have been taken from right beside where the others were, in daylight and without any warning or sound. If he fell into a hole of some kind, he may have held on to his fishing rod at first and then died when he hit bottom. People searching may have totally missed the opening of a cave or well if there was brush around it. It’s the only explanation that seems possible to explain why nothing was found. As for big bad Bart, I think he had a aneurysm and was scavenged. The RCMP are known for their lack of integrity in solving these cases. The two older men may have left the cabin because it’s haunted. Something scared the shit out of them bad enough that they would die instead of going back. The young girl is hard to explain, unless she thought she could get a better photo by climbing up the cliff. It’s something that I would do at her age. The old man slowed her down and she was afraid of missing a good sunset, so she decided to go up higher. After she got up there, she couldn’t get down and probably fell into a ravine outside of the accepted area they searched. That’s my theory of the cases you mentioned. I can’t think of any reason why the doctor would be where he was. Nothing. Wishing you both a great new year!

I like your illustration of great deductive logic, really good skills, thanks.

Thank you guys, I really enjoy your videos and I'm very glad that I don't have to fact-check these informations, because you're doing the great work. 😊

Been binging y’all and goon the last couple weeks. Love these longer episodes.

Watching on premier for the first time and I feel like I finally hit something close to a bucket list item 😂

I love your style! Keep up you in depth reporting! Thank you!😊

For the Jim McGrogan case, it seems to me the only real mystery is the lack of tracks leading off the trail. Take into account the fact that you're dealing with a guy who is described as "the most adventurous person I know" who is on a dream trip planned for a year. He leaves his friends because they want to rest and he doesn't. Essentially they aren't being adventurous enough, so he wants to go off on his own. Now take into account the fact that the guy is geared up and confident, he's got a phone, gps, and he can literally see Vale. There is zero chance he can get lost. All of the stuff about how inexplicable his being lost would be seems to miss the most likely point. He didn't get lost, he just went off on his own for the adventure of it. The call that happened about an hour after the group strikes me as probably accidental (butt dial) since it lasted less than 20 seconds. That is assuming there was good signal and the call didn't drop. If it was an intentional call, then it could just as easily have been Jim calling to tell them that he was going off trail. He obviously intended to do cross country skiing, given the equipment he rented. It seems quite probable to me that he decided to have a little adventure. The only difficulty or mystery really is the lack of clear evidence of him leaving the main trail. In the Bart Schleyer case, animal attack, or natural causes, seems the most likely probability. The whole idea that Bart was too good to ever be killed by a bear etc, I think ignores some things. First, Bart was clearly a risk taker. Skill keeps a person safe, when it tells them what risks not to take, and they listen. There are plenty of situations you can put yourself in, by taking risks, that no amount of skill can keep you safe in. It should not be surprising, or particularly mysterious, when people who live a life devoted to taking risks eventually run out of luck. It doesn't strike me as a coincidence that Bart's two best friends also died in the wilderness as a result of living their adventurous lifestyle. Skill can lessen risks, but again, there are some situations that no amount of skill can remove all risk from. It seems pretty clear that Bart was all about seeking out those types of situations. Second, in general, hunting bear with bow, even on the ground, isn't that dangerous. However, the reason it isn't that dangerous generally is because it is usually done with black bears, and most bears when confronted by a human will simply run off. It is *relatively* rare for a bear to attack. There are about 11 bear attacks in the USA per year. However, killing a bear quickly with a bow requires a pretty specific shot. You basically have to have a side on shot and there is about an 8 inch circle behind the bear's front legs where you can hit it's vitals. If the bear is not presenting it's broad side to you, the chances of a fast kill shot are very low. What this means is that if a bear is aware of you, and decides to come at you instead of running off, your chances of killing it with a bow are VERY very low, almost non-existent. To make this point clear, this does not require the bear to sneak up on you. All it requires is for the bear to know you are there, and to decide to attack. Even if the bear was a good ways off, there would be almost nothing a person could do. Killing the bear would be nigh impossible, unless you are Hugh Glass, your only chances would be escape, or just hoping you survive the mauling. Escape is also be pretty unlikely since you can't outrun a bear. If you were very very lucky, maybe there would be a suitable tree within reach that you could climb out of reach in time. Generally unlikely though. The evidence available suggests that Bart probably died on his first or second day at the site. The fact that he had only eaten one meal, and he appeared to be scouting out a location to use as a blind for moose hunting. That all suggests he had just arrived. That means he probably did not have time to familiarize himself with the area and the wildlife present in the area. I don't care how good you are, if you row up to a wooded shore and get out of your boat, the chances that there would be something like a moose or a bear that was relatively close, but still obscured from sight seem pretty high. The description of his remains that were found, to me, sound like his body was scavenged by wildlife. I think there is a high probability that an animal like a moose or a bear killed him, but it is also possible, as stated, that he could have suffered something like a heart attack or a stroke which either killed him or debilitated him. It is also possible he might have suffered some kind of accident. In terms of not finding clothing in bear scat etc. Whether it was a bear or not, corpses don't last long in the wilderness. They get scavenged and little is left to be found. IF it was a bear, it is also not terribly surprising that nothing was found in that specific area since bears can have a territorial range of up to 500 square miles. There isn't enough evidence to clearly state what happened, but there also really isn't anything that clearly rules out either animal predation, natural causes, or accident. This is also an example, in my opinion, of how the "that seems unlikely" argument is a bit of a cop out and gets misused. For example, he was a healthy middle aged guy, in great shape. A heart attack seems unlikely. Well, what seems more unlikely, that a middle aged guy in great shape could have undiscovered heart issues, or that wendigo killed him? or some mysterious human killer tracked him down in the middle of the Canadian wilderness and murdered him for no apparent reason? or aliens did it? etc. It may seem unlikely that a bear would break from its normal habits, or that a bear expert would get killed by a bear, but those things are much much more likely than any of the alternative scenarios. Regarding the idea of a human killer (not sure if anyone proposed that or not), if it was a human killer, it would have had to have been someone who knew Bart, and who knew where he was going. The chances that somebody just stumbled upon him in the wilderness and murdered him are pretty slim. Is there any evidence that anyone Bart knew wanted him dead? Or that Bart was suicidal? I of course don't have the answers to those questions

Really enjoyed the video Aidens!! Can’t wait for more, keep it up! ❤

I think they sayings are, "within earshot," and "line of sight."

I know this video was 2 months ago at time off this comment, but wow, i love how you present the information and how clear you are! You provide so much information and detail in this-i was both shocked and thoroughly impressed.

My takes(for what it's worth) Jim McGrogan: He likely got lost on the east to west portion Middle Creek/Eiseman hut trail. At that point Vail was supposed to be on his right, not behind him, though it's doubtful he could even see Vail given the slopes of Bald Mountain which were between him and the town. It's also possible, though unlikely, that he intentionally went off trail given that he had to wait for his friend to catch up anyway. Regardless, once he was lost he probably tried calling his friends and, after that failed, he climbed to the top of mountain ridge to get a better vantage point. From which he may have seen the light from Vail and started heading towards there. Eiseman Hut was likely not visible, from videos and photos I saw a lot of trees on the side he would have been looking at it from. Plus over two feet of snow seems to frequently accumulate around and on the huts roof, and if someone had shoveled around it the snowpiles on the edges would have been even taller, further obscuring it. He headed south towards Vail. The Booth Falls side of the mountain has a valley with steep slopes, but may have seemed the more open and direct path back to town. His body was found at the bottom of an ice chute, but the exact coordinates don't appear to have been released. Bart Schleyer: Not much of a mystery here. Man who loves hunting dangerous animals goes off into the wilderness alone to hunt dangerous animals for two weeks, gets killed by dangerous animals. Then law enforcement can't be bothered to do their job(shocked). As a result his body and stuff are further exposed to the elements and animal predation, making determining what exactly happened more difficult. Also love the needless disclaimer that Bart only felt bad because he had caused the bear pain and it was out of respect for the animal that he wanted to finish it off. And not because he just wanted to add to his kill count. "You don't want to hurt the animal. Only murder it with your bow..." Fred & David: I may have missed it, but I don't think you ever mentioned why they went to this cabin in the first place. Presumably whatever they were doing would involve leaving the cabin at some point. If it was hunting than maybe they were tracking an animal and got lost, unable to find the way back to their cabin. If the burns were only mentioned by the guy who found the body, it may have just been hearsay. If there were burns, he may have made a fire anywhere between the cabin and his final location. This campfire could have easily been missed by search parties. Garret Bardsely: This one doesn't have a good explanation. The apparent sequence of events makes it almost impossible for him to disappear where & when he did. I think some of the details were reported wrong or that someone was lying. While it's not entirely impossible that a wild animal could have silently snatched him and returned him to it's den, and that searchers could miss any evidence hinting at this or leading them to it's den/cache, I find it very unlikely. High chance of foul play being involved. One thing I am wondering though... I couldn't find any info on whether or not they searched the seven lakes in the area. Stacy Arras: I recently went down a John Wayne Gacy rabbit hole that led me to conclude that human trafficking is far more common than I used to think. That is a possibility here, but I think the remoteness of this area makes it unlikely. I do think that searchers underestimated how far Stacy could go, possibly because she was a girl, and there's a good chance she simply perished outside of their search area.

I have a friend that whenever anyone asks "Hey, where's X?" (X= Any person, place, thing) Will always respond with "If it was up your butt you'd know it!" and it never gets old or unfunny to him, never. 35 years on, at 45 years old he still laughs about it. Why did I write that all out? I have no Earthly idea. Happy new year Lodgers.

One thing that keeps popping up in my head about Bart Schleyer is the partial remains combined with the lack of evidence of animal feeding in the area. This however leads me to think that the search wasn't thourough enough. To me, it's not out of the question that he might actually just have died out there (yes, that happens sometimes to healthy people) and got picked apart and dragged off by scavengers. Again, what we're missing here is evidence of said scavengers.

Just finished your video (first one I've watched from your channel) and I really enjoyed it! It was very well researched, and despite having trouble even getting through a 20-minute video with my current attention span, I was able to watch/listen to the whole thing (was doing laundry). I first came across the 411 cases on MrBallen's channel a few years ago, and since then, I've watched two documentaries by David Paulides, but I'm always thirsty for more knowledge lol I'm going to check out your video about the Yuba County 5 next, despite having watched a Netflix video about it and a shorter video on YT as I feel as though you'll cover it in a lot more detail.

The lack of a recovered fishing pole has always bothered me in the Bardsley case, but the more I think about it, it’s highly possible that after a few years it was inadvertently recovered by a hiker or scout unaware of its significance. Or just as likely people have stumbled upon it and didn’t think anything of it. There are probably dozens of abandoned fishing poles floating around the Uintas so it’s not something that is necessarily going to draw attention

Boys are killing it, I was a subscriber early on, good stuff

Woke up to you and Wendi laughing at Aarons excuse for the Golden Calf😂😂😂. Thank you for all you do. You're making a difference.

Omggggg just found this channel and I’m obsessed.

Now I need a video about hidden civilizations/ cults in wilderness and national park areas if you haven't already made one.

That bear that killed Bart may have played a ton of Splinter Cell... you don't know...

dang Jim worked very close (same town) to my house. kinda surreal. a theory i have for some cases! My theory is that animals take away the remains when it is raining. While this doesn't solve all of them, it would make sense that if it starts raining and they die of exposure, animals can take away bits or just the body and that would fool the search dogs. This would make sense considering the profile points of "weather change" and "dogs couldn't track". so yea that's it! i love your content and keep it up 👍

I have been waiting for someone to do this, start asking more about these disappearances., thank you.

long time view here bro, and firstly congrats on the weight loss journey, you can really tell that you’ve put time and dedication into it. Keep up the great work and never stop being awesome!