The Morality of Infinity Train

Рет қаралды 59,699

4 жыл бұрын

For today's video, we are going to examine the moral philosophy of one of the most talked-about cartoons to air recently, Infinity Train. What does this story of the mysterious train have to tell us about morality, right and wrong, and developing into a good person? The ways we each answer these questions for ourselves can tell us a lot about how we come to shape the world.
Background Music from Chrome Canyon and John Gonzalez.
Listen Here: • Infinity Train: MT / L...
• Infinity Train: Book 1...
• Pieces from an Unrelea...
Work Cited:
Alexander, Julia. “Rick and Morty Co-Creators Distance Themselves from Szechuan Sauce Debacle.” Polygon, Vox Media, 9 Oct. 2017, www.polygon.com/2017/10/9/16447204/rick-and-morty-szechuan-sauce-justin-roiland-dan-harmon.
Alexander, Larry, and Michael Moore. “Deontological Ethics.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Stanford University, 17 Oct. 2016, plato.stanford.edu/entries/ethics-deontological/.
Brown, Tracy. “'Steven Universe' Changed TV Forever. For Its Creator, Its Queer Themes Were Personal.” Los Angeles Times, Tribune Company, 25 Mar. 2020, www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/tv/story/2020-03-25/steven-universe-rebecca-sugar-lgbtq-legacy.
The Editors of Encyclopaedia Britannica. “Deontological Ethics.” Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc., www.britannica.com/topic/deontological-ethics.
“Existentialist Ethics.” Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Routledge Publishing, www.rep.routledge.com/articles/thematic/existentialist-ethics/v-1.
McIndoe, Ross. “'South Park' Made It Cool Not to Care. Then The World Changed.” Vice, Vice Media, 3 Sept. 2019, www.vice.com/en_us/article/ywapmv/south-park-made-it-cool-not-to-care-then-the-world-changed.
“Moral Criticism, Dramatic Construction // Purdue Writing Lab.” Purdue Writing Lab, Purdue University, 2011, owl.purdue.edu/owl/subject_specific_writing/writing_in_literature/literary_theory_and_schools_of_criticism/moral_criticism_dramatic_construction.html.
Reed, Joanne. “The Four Stages of Self-Development - Friedrich Nietzsche.” Author Joanne Reed, Wordpress, 2 July 2019, authorjoannereed.net/the-four-stages-of-self-development-friedrich-nietzsche/.
Sinnott-Armstrong, Walter. “Consequentialism.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Stanford University, 3 June 2019, plato.stanford.edu/entries/consequentialism/.
#Infinitytrain #cartoonnetwork
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Пікірлер: 196

@rigzmoviediaries654 4 жыл бұрын

The darkest thing about the train is the fact that Amelia's trauma was so bad that she'd rather stay on the train forever and never face the truth than try and let go of her past.

@frauleinzuckerguss1906 4 жыл бұрын

I thought the darkest thing was Lake literally killing a guy by pushing his body into rolling steel wheels and his blood and innards splattered on her

@Zizi-yx5gm 4 жыл бұрын

Yea ape sounds

@frauleinzuckerguss1906 4 жыл бұрын

@@Zizi-yx5gm Psst dude. Put a spoiler warning.

@t84t748748t6 3 жыл бұрын

@@frauleinzuckerguss1906 if u are up to date than u knowe its the indiana jones and the last crusade dead scene

@frauleinzuckerguss1906 3 жыл бұрын

@@t84t748748t6 The finale was freaking insane, am I right?

@tikki2340 4 жыл бұрын

This is what I love about infinity train. It never said that growing and being a better person is easy or is as simple as the number system makes it out to be. It shows that while there's a goal to be better, the path you take and what you need to do to get there is different for everyone. I believe that infinity train perfectly shows the importance of independent thought and embracing of difference and chaos. From Tulip learning how to control and move the train cars that once trapped her, to Lake finding a loophole to be free from the train, and even Grace in book 3 learning to respect and care for the denizens she once thought emotionless lines of code. The entire show sets up strict rules and systems, and shows its characters breaking free from them through helping each other and learning to look past what they're taught are just facts of life. Tulip looked past viewing the train as an all powerful anomaly and learned to see it as a machine. Lake learned to look past the numbers and to realize that no matter what the train thinks, they deserve to be free. Grace learned to look past what she and so many others were taught to think about denizens and the conductor, and I can't wait to see what she learns in the final few episodes. I'm really glad to have a show like Infinity Train. It's now more important than ever to teach children and teens watching the importance of independent thought, skepticism, and holding peoples well-being and safety/freedom above rules or systems. It's had me challenge and change my view of morality and how there really can't be any catch-all rules, because everybody is different. It's way of embracing individuality over conformity/complacency really makes this show amazing and so fun to theorize and analyze lol. Amazing video!

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Aw thank you. Whatever happens with season 3 and beyond, I'm glad it can prompt such discussions.

@Guruc13 4 жыл бұрын

The idea of the Train as a metaphor for life fits pretty well. For Tulip, the Train is an experience tailored to the passenger, designed as a playground for their own personal growth. I feel this is the way almost all of us feel about life at some point, especially when were kids. Some people still live like this, it's an easy thing to slip into.

@DakNJaxter 3 жыл бұрын

An interesting parallel is game design. In the same way that art creates an experience for you to convey a message, games do the same but through action and choices (or at least the illusion there-of). In the same sense, the Train is almost like a giant tactile video-game, presenting moral lessons through it's puzzles and problems.

@Guruc13 3 жыл бұрын

@@DakNJaxter A good observation! But I'd like to point out that either view can dehumanize the passengers of the train, and is ignorant of the sentient ecosystem of the train as a whole. The passengers may be stars of our show, but the train inhabitants deserve personhood.

@Lumberjack_king Жыл бұрын

@@Guruc13exactly that’s what book 2 and 3 are about

@Guruc13 Жыл бұрын

@@Lumberjack_king Quite right!

@Lumberjack_king Жыл бұрын

@@Guruc13 even book 4 humanized the denizens though it wasn’t the main focus ,book 1 did have the turtle episode which humanized the denizens kinda by showing how 1 1 can be cold and uncaring when listening to his programming

@LimeyLassen 4 жыл бұрын

I'm kinda impressed with all the works cited. Lot of people on the platform think video essays are a free lunch.

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Limey Lassen I try my best to cite all of my sources in all of my videos (sometimes I haven't done as good a job). I talk about some lofty concepts like ethics and philosophy and literary theory in a lot of my videos. Though the discussion here are introductory by design, and subsequently don't go too deep into the complex topics so I can introduce more people to these concepts. Showing my sources is a pretty good way to let people expand from the material taught here and find out more for themselves

@sjstronghold9238 4 жыл бұрын

Personally, I have always seen the train as "Jumanji on rails", a teacher very eager to give you a harsh leson but not that interested to know if you learn it

@shockingheaven 3 жыл бұрын

Dang, that's a pretty good description

@gimn_ 4 жыл бұрын

Dude that was so well put together- there arent many videos on infinity train but this really does take the cake

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you enjoyed it! I always like being able to bring insight into shows and topics that aren't discussed as often.

@johnzachariahg 4 жыл бұрын

Hello there!

@ziachung4547 4 жыл бұрын

D..did you just say cake

@johnzachariahg 4 жыл бұрын

Zia Chung Don’t start. 🤣

@MoiraMcGill 4 жыл бұрын

I don't think the numbers equal their morality, but more so their personal growth or how content they are with themselves/their peace of mind. People with pent up baggage and insecurities, like those we see on the train, who are reluctant to change for the better will only see their number go up.

@ZackeryCochran 3 жыл бұрын

Right. When Jesse comes back to the train for Lake, his problem is he wants Lake off the train. There was no question of his morality. There was unease in his mind and that’s how he returned to the train. Of course there’s the question of how the heck he managed to summon the train purposefully like that, but regardless.

@berserker5551 3 жыл бұрын

@@ZackeryCochran Plot

@MegaChickenfish 3 жыл бұрын

0:55 On Steven Universe, I still maintain that even with some episodes having bits where the moral implications could be questionable, I'm mostly just impressed they *went there* and got those conversations going. With Infinity Train it feels to me like there's a sort of core value to each season. With the first, trauma. How do you react when major events that aren't even your fault disrupt your life? The second, identity. As Iroh put it, "who are you, and what do you want?" And with the third, I'd say empathy.

@ZackeryCochran 3 жыл бұрын

The opening song in book 3 is about empathy, so I’d say that’s a good guess for that one.

@olivegem6853 3 жыл бұрын

In regards to the example with Amelia, and in wake of Simon in season 3, I think that’s it’s important to remember that we all as people are responsible for our own actions and their consequences, and that is the logic the train runs on. The train may have brought Amelia on hours with the intention of helping her, but she was the one who made the choices that brought her were she is in the series, when there were always many options a head of her. When a person is making toxic choices or trying to change and improve, it is up to them what they do in a situation. And if they continue down a path that is hurting them instead of changing they may end up destroying themselves. With that said what the heck is there from keeping people from dying by all the dangerous stuff on the train? That’s kind of a red flag that makes you wonder if the train itself knows what’s best for the passengers. Still the only thing from the train that we’ve seen able to kill people or the ghoms. There is a theory that a ghom can kill you much faster with a higher number though, so that it’s always safer to bring your number down but even so. The point is that self improvement is a personal journey, and the “right” way for each passenger, or the key to a lower number, means making decisions that keep you from masking the same problems for yourself. Maybe. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. K bye.

@verdeamarillo4979 3 жыл бұрын

I understand that everyone is responsible for their actions, but isn't it more responsible the environment they grew up in. If someone grows up in an environment where everything is wrong, and they do what they were taught, how are they supposed to know what's actually right, other form of life. Simon wasn't the only one to blame. They were kids put in a hard and unknown situation, and they thought what they were doing was okay. And how were they supposed to know that it wasn't if they didn't knew anything else about the train. By the time hazel appeared it was to late for him,he became a kinda narcissist person bc of the toxic environment/ experiences he had on the train. For people like simon (or other characters like Zuko or catra) does it apply consequentialism or deontology ethics?

@olivegem6853 3 жыл бұрын

@@verdeamarillo4979 given that characters like Zuko, Catra, and Simon are kids who are more in survival mode and that is why their actions leave room for redemption, I don’t know if consequentialism or deontology are the right ways of looking at them entirely. I guess if I had to pick I would lead more to consequentialism being the reason for retribution given that when Zuko, Catra, or Simon made a choice they were acting in self interest, however it could be argued deontology since they all believed at the time that it was the right thing to do to keep themselves safe or be accepted. See, I guess I look at it more from a psychology/therapy angle than a ethics angle and maybe that’s a shortcoming on my part of debating this. But I also believe that in the cases of Catra and Zuko it was difficult because their environment started off bad and they thought they had to be a certain way to be happy. But through good support systems or through looking at the consequences of their own actions and how it made them feel, they on their own made choices to change and do the right thing. Though there was also an environment change in both cases: (Zuko going back home as a prince and Catra on Horde Prime’s ship). I feel that in Simon’s case the thing about the train is that it IS meant to be a safe environment that gets you out of the bad one and helps teach you how to change. However it isn’t perfect, and Simon and Grace when combined were not good coping supports for the other, but maybe they were enablers. They both had the chance to confront their choices and change, but Simon made choices that kept him from changing. I believe Simon could have been redeemed and deserved a chance, but I also see why he wasn’t.

@rigzmoviediaries654 4 жыл бұрын

Infinity Train would make an amazing VR adventure. The life metaphors would be so woke in a simulated procedurally generated train game.

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Rigz Movie Diaries or perhaps it could be a tabletop RPG... someone should get one that

@groovygrabs6164 3 жыл бұрын

The world's coolest rougelike

@pinkajou656 2 жыл бұрын

OH MY GOD YES

@vindi167 9 ай бұрын

im pretty sure i heard there was meant to be one somewhere but im not sure, if the series ever starts again, there might be hope. for now we can only try to make a vr game ourselves.

@lilibane81 4 жыл бұрын

"Not everything makes sense Not everything has to"

@adammyers7383 3 жыл бұрын

Far as I can tell, the train picks up people to solve a specific issue. The number represents how far your actions are pushing towards or away from dealing with said issue. As such, it’s not exactly designed to take morality into account-only growth. This is why Jesse got on and off the train so quickly the second time; One-One and Jesse’s interaction about whether Jesse had a reason to be there would imply so, at least. It’s also quite important to recognize that while Lake killed the Fleks, it was never her intention. She did not want to hurt anyone, she just wanted to be free. So anyone who points to that as “how Steven Universe should have handled it” are missing some very important points about Lake’s character, and by extension her actions taken within her character arc. Hell, even when she was handcuffed to that asshole, she was never interested in explicitly harming him-only wanting him to leave her alone. Then obviously other stuff happened. But it’s important to understand that if Lake had her way, no one would have gotten hurt. Not Jesse, not the Fleks. Meanwhile, Grace and Simon’s arcs are all about reckoning with consequences and how, no matter what you tell yourself, when you hurt others it hurts you as well; because at some point you’ll want something, and others will eventually decide they aren’t okay with you having it. Even the train itself falls victim to this-in not caring about the passengers themselves, but only whether or not they sort out their issues, it left itself open to passengers making their own rules that cause further destruction. A “Means to an end” mentality is always going to cause problems no one is interested in facing, least of all those who hold on to that mentality. Justification is a very tricky, slippery thing. It could also be easily argued that Grace’s fate is equivalent to that of the Diamonds: a morally corrupt leader responsible for large-scale death of sentient life attempting to reconcile a new worldview imparted on them by someone they wanted to be close to being given a chance to lead their followers in a different direction, and being allowed to not because they deserve it or because they’ve made up for everything, but mostly because they are the only ones with the actual power to change the way things work within the system they controlled for so long. Morality is a dangerously fluid concept, it’s true, and every decision will have consequences regardless of intent-but more often than not, cruelty begets cruelty, and kindness begets kindness. For me personally, that makes morality quite clear cut. Plus I consider how I act towards others to be less about what they do or do not deserve, and more about the kind of person I want to be. The fascinating thing is that the train itself commits to being a neutral party, which plays by very specific rules-rules that benefit a specific kind of person. But any system that refuses to change in the face of any new developments or data is a broken system.

@knightlypoleaxe2501 4 жыл бұрын

10:40 The road to hell is paved with good intentions, or so I'm told.

@ilikemovies22 3 жыл бұрын

This perfectly described why I adore Infinity Train. These moral and existential questions are why I particularly love Book 2. The dialogue in episode 8 between Mace and MT is amazing. To what extent of free will should denizens have? Why should they be othered? That's why I love how One-One becomes stuck in a loop on trying to figure out what to do with MT. Even more fascinating is that the solution he accepts of her "having a number" is based on a lie. That further represents how imperfect reality is, so I really loved your line that we need to "embrace the chaos of the universe." I'm very glad to have seen this video and am happy to have found this channel.

@fionaanimates8692 4 жыл бұрын

How do you not have like a million subs?!? This is soooo well done! I’m sad Steven Universe is over, but hopefully this cartoon will fill the void.

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

If these past weeks have shown me anything, there will always be an abundance of great media as long as you open yourself to it.

@Someguyhere111 Жыл бұрын

The true villain of Infinity Train imo is the Train itself. It'd be one thing if it offered a journey to people who hit blocks in their life to overcome their problems, but it essentially abducts them and then puts them in life-threatening situations, and while that worked out great for some passengers, there are also cases like Grace and Simon. Simon's parents will never know what happened to their son, and even if Grace returns home, she'll have lost so much of her childhood there. Hell, just look at how young the children of the Apex were. And it's not just the Denizens that passengers have to watch out for, but other passengers as well. As Lelouch from Code Geass would say, "Forcing your good intentions on others is no different than an evil act."

@casir.7407 4 жыл бұрын

well ive been trying not to get my quarantine to-watch list any longer, but guess i have no choice 🤷🏻‍♀️ explorations on morality mixed with interesting art and concept design is exactly my go-to stuff

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Casi R. If you haven't watched infinity train yet, it's a pretty quick watch with 20 11-minute episodes. So you would be able to finish it within a couple of hours.

@cocomichels13 Жыл бұрын

Did you ever watch it?

@silaslsilasl 4 жыл бұрын

FINALLY thank you for blessing my life with an Infinity Train analysis. The different perspectives of morality really bugged me a lot when i was watching Infinity Train. Train creator or Mirror Dimension authorities can't possibly be morally perfect, so how can we expect any of them to govern the world or other people? It really pushed for the importance for independence and growth of the characters. Ironically if a God created the train and the entire system eventually resulted in the growth of all major characters, you could consider that a success. But that's just me being a little more fatalistic (:

@johnzachariahg 4 жыл бұрын

As a geek for morality conflict in cartoons, I LOVE this video. Also, thanks for using my remix for Lake’s theme in the beginning of the video. I really appreciate it! 🤩

@snowymass854 3 жыл бұрын

It's pretty funny watching the Apex segment of this video after Book Three: The Cult of the Conductor. Still a really great video and a great talk about morality and discovering your own path of betterment.

@ilan_profile 2 жыл бұрын

THE WRITING, EDITING, EVERYTHING IN THIS VIDEO IS SO PERFECT!! You literally did the best description of Infinity Train in a short video essay!!! We need more shows taking this risks like Infinity Train, with a deep storytelling that doesnt judge their target audience's intelligence and instead leave us thinking after each episode

@chromiumex2384 3 жыл бұрын

It’s confirmed: Infinity Train is ACAB. Hell yeah.

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Heck to the Flecs

@chromiumex2384 3 жыл бұрын

Henry Kathman Heck yeah, heck the flecks.

@chromiumex2384 3 жыл бұрын

nameless rando “extreme” yeah okay

@thatamericangamer7230 3 жыл бұрын

@@chromiumex2384 im sorry but what does ACAB mean

@hamham675 3 жыл бұрын

@@thatamericangamer7230 All Cops Are Bastards

@TheDreamerExtreme 3 жыл бұрын

This series desperately needs more attention. So glad to see someone discuss about it, hope it gets more seasons by the time I post this comment

@cray_draws 4 жыл бұрын

The whole video is based on the statement that the purpose of the train is to make passengers a better person, but to my understanding (and from what one-one says at the beginning of season two if I remember correctly) the train's purpose is to learn to deal with a problem passengers are facing before they get on the train. Tulip is learning to view from the eyes of other, because she doesn't understand that her parents aren't divorcing because they are mean and want to hurt her but the opposite for exemple. The exemple that 'proves' it is that the train does not take Miranda (is it the name of 'the conductor' of season 1 I already forgot) to make her a better person; the grief of her lost husband is not wrong and the fact that she wants to end her life isn't immoral. The train want to help her to being in peace with her loss, not making her a better person (even if we know how it ends). In my opinion, the serie doesn't really ask questions of morality and instead discuss more about different personal conflicts. Putting yourself into other's perspective : Tulip. Denial : Miranda. Asserting your identity : MT and Jake... That's what Infinity train is about for me, and that's why Infinity Train makes the bold choice of putting the focus on very different characters with each season. That's pretty much all I have to say about it

@VanNessy97 3 жыл бұрын

The S1 conductor was named Amelia

@cray_draws 3 жыл бұрын

@@VanNessy97 thanks for reminding me :)

@frauleinzuckerguss1906 4 жыл бұрын

I think the Übermensch thing you said about Grace was more about her subordinate guy because he got angry at Jesse for choosing his number going down over them while Grace seemed sad that she lost a soul. I think she truly believes to be doing right and wants to "help" the passengers, while the denizens are just computer programming to her that she doesn't care about. But the other guy actively treated them bad and wanted to force Jesse to adopt their lifestyle.

@user-wn1sz5fe9k 4 жыл бұрын

It's so refreshing to see a video put together as well as this one, great job!

@joshuabarnes5524 3 жыл бұрын

You have created an amazing video about a show that’s already amazing, and I’m also happy someone’s talking about what I’m thinking when watch the show. Thank you man

@pixelatedshinobi2945 4 жыл бұрын

This was amazing! It's one of the best video essays i've ever seen. Excellent music choice, amazing visuals and a very well written script while still being 15 minutes!

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Aw thanks! While I know I have a propensity for talking about things for a long time (see also: my other videos) it does feel satisfying to nail all my thoughts in a shorter amount of time.

@cinnabarsorcerer8970 4 жыл бұрын

Omg, this show is already amazing, outstanding even! But you just shattered a wall. Thank you, this is some really good life advice.

@Tilerin 4 жыл бұрын

Really great analysis, exploring many different types of thought without becoming overbearing. Very enjoyable.

@shockingheaven 3 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad this appeared on my recommendations. Excellent job!

@notjustpurenonsense 2 жыл бұрын

well put, friend! Accepting and realizing the truth no matter how painful that pill's hard to swallow, remembering and truly knowing our past to carry on, acknowledging and embracing mistakes of our own and/ or others to learn from them. And being aware that we each have our own problems but there's no shame in having one nor is it bad to have people or sources to help us recover, get over it, and become a better person if possible in the end.

@Guruc13 4 жыл бұрын

Oh, now THIS is gonna be good!

@Guruc13 4 жыл бұрын

Yep! It was! It was even better than I thought!

@yannik_w 4 жыл бұрын

Best analysis of the show I have seen so far!

@emmyholtsman4318 2 жыл бұрын

truly one of the best video essays i've ever watched, great job:) i would love to hear your thoughts on adventure time

@monikakavaliunaite8017 3 жыл бұрын

Best Infinity Train analysis I've ever seen

@avamelillo 4 жыл бұрын

What an amazing and interesting video! There is so much to analyze in this show, so much to learn! Thanks for the video, I am always so impressed by how much we can take from modern cartoons

@rasmuskurvits6729 4 жыл бұрын

This infinity train vid is insanely good. This gave me a hole other perspective of this show. Keep on the cool vids

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@amarylily 4 жыл бұрын

Dude wow this gave me so many chills this was amazing!!! Just incredible job!!!

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Wow, thank you!

@chinnuatluri 3 жыл бұрын

That's a really good analysis video. 👍

@Leo-ms8gm Жыл бұрын

Great video keep the good work

@vyt2622 Ай бұрын

Great video! A central point of the Infinity Train is that it isn't about setting a universal moral system, or even helping people become their best self, it is about (in one-one's words) "solving problems". First, it's ideological rather than action or consequence based. Numbers are shown changing as people talk or think about things, even before they've acted on any decision, or set off any side effects. Second, it's specific. A person can reach zero about the problem that brought them to the train, but still not be morally ideal, and still have other problems (as seen with Jesse).

@TtheWriter 3 жыл бұрын

I am subbing. This was prolly the best Infinity Train video I've ever seen.

@trs5730 4 жыл бұрын

Such underrated guy

@enricolarana1098 4 жыл бұрын

really good and thought provoking vid

@garjo7131 4 жыл бұрын

I love Infinity Train and this is the best video about it I have seen on this website. Why did it take me three and a half months to find this and why doesn't it have more views?

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Garjo I guess since it isn’t theorizing about the lore of the show or in a top 10 list form, It’s not being recommended as often. But feel free to share it around if you want to help expose it to more people! Best wishes

@coochize 3 жыл бұрын

i think the way the numbers work is at least in part the passenger's subconscious. Maybe not the number total but when the numbers go up or down. it's the passengers themselves judging on their own morality. (spoilers for book 3) it's suggested Simon killed nulls before So why was his numbers going insane when he was about to wheel tuba? It's because he spent enough time to know she was as much of a person as him, it was at that point he knew he was killing a person and not just breaking a toy, he knew just how wrong what he was doing was which was reflected in his number

@stijnwiggerts9118 3 жыл бұрын

great video! I really appreciate your editing, it is of a much higher standard than most channels your size. On an other note, do you still know the music used during the segment about some philosophers? (around the 6 minute mark)

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much! A number of tracks that I used were some of the unused soundtracks that Chrome Canyon composed for the show. This specific song is titled "Baroque Theme" which you can listen to in this compilation video here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r9VlmLN8s66wk4k.html

@enochturnal_ 3 жыл бұрын

this made me cry in the best way

@SwingingonSunshine 3 жыл бұрын

This is such a good video. Thank you.

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@Goryalight 3 жыл бұрын

I like how the animation style gives you old style and new style bind together. Like how Over The Garden Wall did.

@mitchelltoye2219 4 жыл бұрын

Good work!

@HenryKathman 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@shockingheaven 3 жыл бұрын

This deserves more views

@omniscientomnipresent5500 3 жыл бұрын

Nice essay.

@frauleinzuckerguss1906 4 жыл бұрын

I was always a bit iffy on the mirror world system. Because as you just said the denizens can't usually enter the real world but Tulip loosing her reflection was still seen in the real world. But that would mean that the reflections and mirror world exist in our world and thus are not exclusive to the train like the other phenomenoms. It's quite confusing.

@shockingheaven 3 жыл бұрын

OMG. You're the same person who did that fantastic analysis of Over The Garden Wall.

@Whosaskin 3 жыл бұрын

it's beautiful...and so spot on. quite on the mark about, well, morality, specially given the fact that it doesn't work the same way for everyone, that's why I think every passenger must have a different experience. I think ultimatley it's about empathy though.

@ziachung4547 4 жыл бұрын

How can a video like this get so little views? Outrageous

@Rebellionswerebuiltonhope 3 жыл бұрын

Cartoon Network: "See's Maces death in Infinity Train." Also Cartoon Network: YeP, ThiS Is FoR kIdS!

@delylahwylde 3 жыл бұрын

did anyone else get chills with that "off the rails" transition?

@grimmcorvid5713 3 жыл бұрын

This is an amazing review i love Infinity train! But calling Tulip who was neglected selfish isnt correct. She wasnt selfish. She didnt understand what was going on and merely wished to deal with her pain alone.

@Lucien_M 3 жыл бұрын

A comet passes by the Earth one day, leaving a perfectly straight line as it's trail. However, to us on Earth, it's looks as if it had curved towards then away from us. *That is the Infinity Train.* A straight line so flawed by our point of view, yet so perfect outside of it. The objective truth seen through our subjective eyes.

@VanNessy97 3 жыл бұрын

My wish upon the Infinity Train is to learn how to not only love myself for who I truly am, but to also learn to advocate for myself and recognize just how much I truly deserve.

@badgerfern6469 10 ай бұрын

Epic video

@prowolf633 2 жыл бұрын

The show needs to be brought back and have it’s last four books released! #FinishInfinityTrain!

@j_station 4 жыл бұрын

The train pun at the beginning made me laugh when it seriously shouldn’t have, I think quarantine is getting to me-

@jg-7780 3 жыл бұрын

Any plans for an update on this analysis for book 3?

@cookiecatshroom 3 жыл бұрын

11:31 this is what really got me hooked on this video. This entire segment about rambling on and scrambling to find moral meaning behind a show that is shown to have a very complex network of ideologies and philosophies. The train isn't absolutely morally sound, and neither are people. We make mistakes, and like you said, even good intentions can lead to devastating consequences. Struggling to find meaning in general is an entire problem all on its own. I don't know exactly what is was about this segment that hit me so hard. Maybe it was the static in the background showing that when you think about these kinds of things you're pretty much going down a rabbit hole almost too deep and bottomless for humans to comprehend. Perhaps it was the point behind all of this? That we can contemplate and ponder the meanings of life and yet we may still never find an answer we desire. Or maybe it's the fact that *we've been there.* At least, I have. I've gone down dangerous roads of overthinking, questioning morality, life, the meaning of existence, and why it matters. It took a huge toll on my mental health. All of this questioning and thinking made me forget that *It's okay to not have the answer.* *It's okay to just live life.* Thinking isn't bad. Philosophy and morality aren't borderline unhealthy. It's a fascinating thing to ponder. But when you take it too far and question things that you know are just going to lead you down a dark road of "what ifs" "how comes" and just "whys" in general. I'm sure I'm making no sense at this point. Or wasn't from the beginning. Yeah I'm beginning to realize that what I was talking about or what you meant probably wasn't even CLOSE to what I thought. And uhhhh That's okay. If you are still reading this... thanks for putting up with my bullshit. And I'm sorry xD

@williamchamberlain2263 3 жыл бұрын

For a _good_ example of blue-orange see the warp spiders in _Perdido Street Station._

@krealyesitisbeta5642 3 жыл бұрын

“How many have died....” Me: “Well for starters...”

@LinguaPhiliax 3 жыл бұрын

Embrace the chaos. Everything is connected.

@Yipper64 3 жыл бұрын

5:10 This makes a lot of sense actually. I think this is how the train operates. Ive had this theory for a bit that somewhat lines up with this. What if the train is selfish? It seems how you treat denizens usually has a bigger effect on the number than anything else, upsetting denizens tends to make the number go up, almost every time. Sure you have edge cases like when a denizen is upset because they cant do something that upsets another, (peri) but just as a general rule, on top of the general morality, the train seems to favor the denizens by punishing passengers for doing bad things to them. I think book 3 makes this quite evident as the apex is based around getting a higher number by destroying the lives of different denizens in various cars. If you think about it, yes its bad, but it doesnt necessarily mean these people are becoming worse people, they are just doing what they have been doing for however long, and i doubt that would do much to make you a worse person after you had been doing it for a while already. Especially if you have already wholeheartedly dehumanized these entities. And yet their numbers continue to climb.

@dreamythesheep 3 жыл бұрын

The train definitely has a base set of assumptions. It assumes that everyone that enters the train wants to tackle their issues (if they believe they have any), everyone that enters wants to confront their problems this way, or that everyone that enters the train will even believe the train can be interacted with in the first place, and that, even if all of those first three things are possible, that those who enter will have the physical and mental capability to survive the train long enough to learn and grow. If I'm correct about those assumptions the train probably assumed the Apex were not bad people, but was perfectly aware of what they were doing and were punishing them for lack of growth.

@Yipper64 3 жыл бұрын

@@dreamythesheep hmm, yeah that might be the case. The train might be punishing them for their lack of growth, rather than punishing them for plunging further into their issues. Which does make sense, when Tulip was about to leave adicus her number went up, not because she was getting in a worse state, but because she was going back on the progress she had made up to that point.

@dreamythesheep 3 жыл бұрын

@@Yipper64 It might also be a mix depending on the issue. Its very likely that Tulip's number could have increased if in tandem with attempting to leave Atticus her desperation to go back home led her to double down and thus the train punished her for her selfishness. Of course this is again under the assumption that the train does actually help people with their issues and by the time they reached zero they have arrived at the point they can't give into the flaw that brought them on the train in the first place.

@queebles3183 3 жыл бұрын

Me: watching a video about the morality of something to see what it’s like to have a morality

@FlippySuper 4 жыл бұрын

While I feel you bring up some interesting points, I don't really think the show brings up any themes of morality intentionally. I feel the way the show presents the train and its passengers isn't meant to have us question it that much. Mostly because the character's emotional issues on both shows end up being more about something personal to them more than the themes of how moral or not is the train and any action in it. MT is responsible for the murder of three people (the passenger she took out from the pod was confirmed dead by the creator on twitter) but the show doesn't really treat her actions as either disgusting or heroic, she just did what she needed to do to escape. If this show truly did have some underlying themes of morality and what makes a good person, they would not have overlooked something as big as that. But since it's not going for that, they don't go into it, and they don't have to. The first season was about how running away from your problems never leads to anything good, while the second season explored existentialism. These themes of morality you mention seem to me like more things that came up in your head after thinking about this show more than the actual themes explored in it. Which isn't a bad thing, its pretty cool that a cartoon was able to make you think this much about complicated themes, but I don't really think it's one of the main things the creators had in mind when making the show. They definitely talked about it a bit, but not as in-depth as you may think. Even the survivors like Grace arent really finding certain meaning to the train in the way you described, they just think that's how it operates. I also don't think her character is the typical "strength above feelings, that is what the train is about" archetype considering how she was shown to be kind to Jesse. And I find that the eventual conclusion of "it's ok as long as you have friends/companions along the way" is pretty weak if they really wanted to tackle all those themes. I also feel that the second season made it perfectly clear that the train isn't really a good thing, it's straight up a madhouse where people are worse of than in the real world, and any enlightenment they might find is accidental instead of intentional. Jesse and MT escaped after breaking the rules of the train so there is no question that the train its fundamentally flawed to the core. But that's just my interpretation.

@irhaddedovic678 4 жыл бұрын

I agree with even tho I think there is some morality to the train second season really does explore more themes about right and wrong. I don't know about you but I love MT and how fun she is as a character how she is not all good and has her own goals. I don't think she is bad I just think that she was so despret to get of off train that she didn't really think about concequences it show how people can get really despret to just get out of a horrible situation. And her rudeness make ssence because she was basicly a slave her entire life it is really realistic. If u are reading this sorry for the MT rant and I think yore take is really interasting.

@FlippySuper 4 жыл бұрын

@@irhaddedovic678 I agree with what you say about MT but the show itself never goes into what makes MT a good or a bad person, it just delves into the themes of her being considered a person in the first place. I dont mind MT having to do drastic things for the sake of her escape because the show itself doesnt want to treat morality as the big theme. You can tell its one of the minor themes throughout the show, but that could also be said about any cartoon that takes itself seriously. Killing is wrong and would usually paint any character as villainous, but then what if it is for "righteous" reasons? IT doesnt really delve into that because I dont think the writers wanted to take a stance on that situation. By letting it go, MT can earn her happy ending and no questions about murder and morality have to be adressed. I dont see the show not properly adressing morality as a bad thing, it was a creators choice.

@irhaddedovic678 4 жыл бұрын

@@FlippySuper U just sumed up my thoughts perfectly. She did what she had in the emotional bad state but ur right morality is not a big theme her. Tnx for replaying.

@callum5926 3 жыл бұрын

damn... this show man

@devonwall4083 3 жыл бұрын

I think Steven Universe is just too vague. I mean, I sorta picked up that it's kinda a escapist narrative, and doesn't hold consequences for characters. People talk about the Diamonds but I'm more salty about Pearl manipulating Connie, and how Garnet lets Steven handle it instead of doing it herself. She doesn't seem to be aware that she let Pearl off the hook, then became Pearl's victim herself. The morale implications of the show are terrible, but the show isn't upfront about those implications much either. Part of why I prefer Infinity Train is that it's easy to understand. It's honest. I think most shows are more honest than Steven Universe but Infinity Train goes farther and harder. Darker even. To face darkness, you either grow and change or die. ...just like a certain someone in Infinity Train season 3! Hahaha!

@misteriousgamr 3 жыл бұрын

They say that Infinity Train is graphic...but I can do them one better by having nightmares because of the ending of Courage the Cowardly Dog

@Yipper64 3 жыл бұрын

0:50 i think "responsibility" is the keyword there. That doesnt mean trying to push your personal agenda, or to teach kids what YOU think is morally correct, it means trying to not teach kids things that are immoral, in my opinion. A sort of avoidance more than encouraging them to seek out morality. This is of course, when the audience is for kids. For teens+ i think its okay to push that a little, show a character that is immoral, lets them be that, because thats just how life is. Push your agenda, if its not for kids i dont care.

@Atreus21 3 жыл бұрын

This is a PSA: To beg the question is not the same thing as to raise the question. Thank you.

@raimuzu 3 жыл бұрын

infinity train is basically wilderness behavior

@collinwang3259 3 жыл бұрын

this is sick🔥

@DKannji 3 жыл бұрын

My morality lies with a simple rule; Be selfless without loosing yourself, and be selfish if your problems seem too big.(or something like that) Informed by Matthew 7:3 of the bible. My moral/ethical background is also informed by the law of Jante, as it very much teaches humility. To not think yourself better or superior to anyone else, even if you are.

@harmonetheanimationaddict4419 3 жыл бұрын

#saveinfintytrain

@procrastinatingcartoonstm5130 3 жыл бұрын

Makin me think

@psychomammoth9640 Жыл бұрын

Shame this series got cancelled and won’t come back, it was a neat plot

@keatenwright8495 4 жыл бұрын

Watched full ads for this quality content.

@GawainDragon 2 жыл бұрын

This wideo is so The Good Place season 3. If you want moral dilemma that's the show!

@HenryKathman 2 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, I actually started watching the Good Place a couple of months before writing this video, maybe it had an influence on this IDK

@kinglatag6955 2 жыл бұрын

I hope everyone can help to bring infinity train back ✌️

@CactusCowboyDan 3 жыл бұрын

I wonder, what would happen if a passenger derailed the train? Destroyed it even? What then does morality hold when the journey through life itself it stopped and silenced?

@ambercat993 3 жыл бұрын

Where is the meaning behind any of this?! 12:20 *famous footwear ad* Interesting

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Ambercat993 Ads be like that sometimes

@derekhughes978 3 жыл бұрын

Started to get dark around 11:30

@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr 3 жыл бұрын

4:42 *starts talking about ubermensch while showing GLaDOS* I see you are a man of good taste

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Most Evil AIs like Glados are a great example of this trope, but you gotta respect the queen

@kumatorahaltmanndreemurr 3 жыл бұрын

@@HenryKathman GLaDOS is the GOAT

@micahneo8985 4 жыл бұрын

Someone is gonna make a speed run for the fastest per;son to take their number down

@nii9931 3 жыл бұрын

8:59

@eyesack6845 3 жыл бұрын

why the fuck do i completely agree with completely opposing concepts of morality?

@HenryKathman 3 жыл бұрын

Probably because as this video shows, while we can fit moral philosophies into categories, those categories have their limits to how we view the world.