Wow okay okay okay, to your credit, that is an impressive amount of incorrect data in one response. So I’m going to have to break this down. “I think it was a mistake to say Rose sabotaged the enemy side as Pink Diamond, remember Blue said that all she had to do was sit around and act un-phased and the rebellion problem would sort itself out.” Blue told Pink to not do anything and act un-phased to the rebellion. Yes? And? I don’t actually understand at all how this is relevant to Pink sabotaging the colony side? At all? Blue was telling Pink how to crush the rebellion, this conversation leading to Pinks full realization that the rebellion was never going to win without her out of the picture. But obviously this was not what Pink did, or what she was doing at any point. Pink at no point was actually trying to fight the rebellion, she started it! She told Blue and Yellow they should give up and leave the planet, using the rebellion as a reason. I seriously don’t understand this first part. “I think calling the diamonds 'space Nazi' goes a little to far, yes they looked upon other species as lesser, but that is a flimsy connection to the Nazis of our world. The problem is we don't know anything about the origin of gems or their culture. Gems are clearly artificially created entities, but we don't know who created them and for what purpose. Can you really call them Nazis if conquering worlds and discarding the feeling of creatures they destroyed for resources is a part of their original programming?” Well, one, you are leaving out several actions from the Diamonds that were deliberately parallel to Nazi Germany. The forced tortured/horrific experiments of hurt and shattered gems, leading to both the cluster and the smaller abominations. The hunting and immediate execution of any of their own kind they considered impure. The strict and punishable by execution societal roles and classes of their own kind. And the mass genocide. And your argument that we cannot compare them to Nazis because there is a *chance* that they may have programmed to do this is not only null and void in a meta sense, because the storytelling parallels are their regardless and are meant to invoke this connection. But also in universe, because if the excuse is programming, the fact that a three minute conversation completely rewrote that programming makes that argument bullshit. Because if it is that easy to overwrite their original purpose, then continuing to mass genocide for untold millennia is objectively a choice on their end. The show's premise is on the fact the Gemkind is entirely capable of growth, change, understanding their actions, and beating their ‘purpose’. The Diamonds are wholly responsible for the torture, murder, and subjugation they inflicted. They are Space Fascists. “I always thought that Bismuth created the shatter point after the Pink faked her death and that doing so inspired Bismuth to create the weapon. Rose bubbled Bismuth because it was a reasonable solution and left her because she felt ashamed that her actions helped drive Bismuth to consider murdering other gem, not just the diamonds.” Just factually incorrect. Bismuth made the Breaking point before Rose shattered herself. As Evidenced by. 1. Her not knowing about the Diamond corruption attack. 2. Her saying ‘It was Pink wasn’t it?’ When she found out. Showing us she thought “Pink” was still alive. 3. Her being told the entire story from Steven and her responding, “I guess she followed my advice”. Directly stating she didn’t fucking know and it happened after. “Sugar explained that the inspiration for Spinel was a toy she left in a garden as a child and then found a year later and how it had changed without her. The important thing here is that the creators words suggest this was the act of a child, or a person with the mind of a child. It was a mistake, but we don't hold children responsible for the mistakes they make as we do adults because children are not fully developed.” This is almost, but not entirely, irrelevant. I will absolutely give you the point that Rebecca said she got the inspiration from that even from her own life, and from the fact that she was trying to invoke a similar feeling or nostalgic loss from Spinel's story. But inspiration does not imply full 1-1 copy. We do not know, in universe, why this event happened. Pink’s motivation or lack thereof is unknown right now and all we can go on is what we know about her personality at this point in her life. Which is, in love with life, terrified of the Diamonds and their control over anything she loves. Terrified of her own power and getting close to anyone. Amazingly caring but not entirely aware of how to communicate or respect others. And would *never purposely harm another living thing*. Bad things happen around her, and people say it’s because of her. She has never wanted to *hurt* anyone. But she has been told and people tell themselves. That she hurt *everyone*. “What's the problem with Steg??” So much. He is an overly sexual incest machine, it’s gross. To be clear, *a* Fusion of Steven and Greg would have been fine. Fusion is not an allegory for sex by default. It is the way Steg Looks/Behaves/Hits on every other gem/ and ORGASMS PEARL INTO REMEMBERING that I am uncomfortable with. “Honestly I'd rather just strike the movie from canon and be done with it.” Me too dude.

@@CherryTreatsArt I'm just going to number the points as the come up. 1) I think you missed my point which was just that I don't think Pink actively did anything on the non-rebellion side of the war. I think she was just treated as a figure head and the gems under her orchestrated and implemented that whole side of the war. This isn't a point against Pink, in fact I think it show just how little control of her own life she possessed even in her own colony. 2) My point wasn't that there aren't any parallels. Sure we know that gems can be shown the errors of their way and can choose to go against their programming and it doesn't matter how quickly this can be done what matters is if no one ever showed them it was wrong then when could they have changed? If a child is always pinching people because they think it's fun and stops immediately when you pinched them back, realizing that it's hurtful, that doesn't mean that the child was ignoring that they were being hurtful before that. It was information they didn't have. Additionally, the diamonds changing their ways in three minutes was a result of rushed bad writing, Peridot is an example for how long that should have taken. 3) Well your first point would only work if the diamonds did their corrupting attack minutes after Pink faked her death and regenerated, but there is no time scale for long long after faking her death that the other diamond came and did the corrupting attack. We also know from the centipede gem that the diamond at least attempted to withdraw their own forced before making the attack. Your other points I can't argue. As I said it was something I thought, you can call it headcanon, I just find it to be more meaningful that way. I could say that was just a side effect of weak writing to reform Bismith to Steven's side in a rush, but you'd have the same opinion of it as you did in the point about the diamonds. 4) Authorial intent is a valid thing to cite when arguing what happened in a story. It doesn't say anything bad about Pink that she forgot about Spinel. The argument just paints it as the mistake of a child, a forgiveable mistake. 5) lol those are all very good points about Steg, I was just curious as you mentioned him but didn't go into details. 6) I think we are much more in agreement than not, I posted a extensive response Tumblr against someone doing a huge break down of why Pink is a villain.

@@The1Ryu Dude your valid, this has been a very enjoyable back and forth on my end. So, 1.I think I did miss the point of your statement initially, that being said I do personally still disagree, though we're definitely in head canon territory now about how Rose handled the Pink side of the rebellion. I see it as the first time she had any real control over her surrounding, not much but some, and her leading the Homeworld forces astray from the Rebellion to keep it safe being one of her first acts of autonomy *as* a Diamond. The entire rebellion is for Pink an allegory for her, recognizing her abuse/ recognizing her ability and desire to do something about it/excreting her will for the first time. But I actually see where your coming from as well and I think it's a good take on the situation. 2. I don't think the child analogy can be presented to all of gem kind and definitely not the other Diamonds, so I can't reconcile their actions as anything other the willful fascism, and their ability to reform from that abhorrent writing. Rebecca put their action over a moral event horizon that she could have never properly pulled back from. You can't make a Firelord character and then treat them like a Zuko. 3. Bismuth arc was another that was handled very poorly yeah, I personally like that canonical timeline with the attack and everything, but wish they had addressed basically everything else differently. And I did not mean to imply that I thought the Diamond attack was nigh instantaneous, but I do think it was rushed, within only a few days form the event. As evidence from the Homeworld gems not being properly evacuated in a wild rush. 4. Yeah I see your interpretation as likely but I don't think we can actually argue this specific point further as we have no canon info to work with. We can only headcanon and predict for now. 5. Yeeeeeah... 6. Discussion about media interpretation is always quite fun for me. So I always go into it in good faith, any hyperbole or emotion in my arguments are meant to be in good fun. Though I will admit I've gotten genuinely invested is the Rose debate, probably too much, since I tend to empathize and see myself in the character.

@@CherryTreatsArt I've enjoyed it to, I rarely respond to people I agree with, so it's usually just fighting and getting cursed at. 1) Ya it's a minor point really. 2) You don't feel that White actions, especially at the end when Steven made her blush, was basically just her acting like a child having a temper tantrum. True, but the Firelord never acted like Zuko, all the diamonds do act like children. 3) Still enough time for Bismith to create the weapon and show it to Rose. But I can yield to what the dialogue shows. 4) Fair enough 5) Still makes be lol 6) What really frustrates me is the show, the fans can and will think whatever they want, but why is Steven in the show being so unfair to Rose. it's like 'Storm in the Room' never happened.

@@The1Ryu I'm actually beginning to think that Stevens anger with Rose is going to be directly addressed going forward. I'm cautiously hopeful that his arc right now is leading to him getting a reality check on his personally similarities with Rose/her innocence/ and his need for goddamn therapy.

True

there’s nothing wrong with that tho like character development being backwards

@@iiayuwokii569 the reason it's an issue is because if you don't keep that in mind, you end up seeing rose become a worse person as the series goes on. Which is the opposite of what happened, she went through a lot of personal growth and became a very kind and wonderful person.

Also because of the ancient trope of the character who seems at first to be virtuous and a friend only to be eventually revealed as being a villain all along. (SU had a version of this with Navy). I've read comments that go as far back as the premiere of An Indirect Kiss where some posters couldn't believe that Rose Quartz was the peerless heroine that she was described by the Crystal Gems, and similar posts accompanied each story that featured or referred positively to her.

​@@Shinigami13133 pffff

I only agreed with Pearl but not fully

It's understandable why she bubbled her and kept it a secret in her prospective. She still cared about her that's why she didn't want the Crystal Gems to hate her for what she almost did to her.

Yeah, Rose is one of my favorite characters in the show.

To be fair, she was the most human of the gems, because she wasn’t perfect

You're all seem to be forget Spinel and volleyball

I think the Diamonds turned a new leaf way too quickly though, we should've gotten a slower development of them turning to Pink's side, maybe more intimidating encounters before that?

The whole mission statement of the entire show is growth and change. That no matter how you grow up or what you’ve been through, you can still choose to change. That you still deserve love. It would be extremely insulting and confusing to the message if it ended with WD being unredeemable. It would essentially change the message to “show compassion to everyone because everyone is capable of change EXCEPT THE BIG ONE JUST FIND THE BIG ONE AND KILL IT THAT ONE DESERVES TO DIE”

Yeah I totally agree ! However, White was never truly redeemed nor fogiven. You see that Steven is constantly trying to avoid the Diamonds, is feeling awkward and uneasy around them, and in Future he even has an intrusive thought about killing White by maing her smash her head against a pillar 😰 The thing is that, he can't really deal with them. Killing them is not an option and it would go against every the Crystal Gems ever fought for. And they are still Diamonds, the most powerful creatures. And I think that, when you see them during the series, it's hard to forgive them after everything they've done. So I think that it's pretty realistic and on character for them to follow Steven's instructions without really understanding them foundamentally, and it's an inbetween working well enough for Steven to settle on this since they don't try to hurt people anymore. I would believe in a Blue and Yellow redemption, seeing them in the last episode of S5, but not White. White isn't someone who regret anything. It's how I personnaly see it anyway !

​@LunatheMoonDragon okay but if it's insulting for space Hitler to be irredeemable, why is it Sugar wants us to hate Pink? She quite literally kept piling on her character and outwardly states she's supposed to be disliked. Steven even puts her portrait in lions mane in the end, which is insulting to rose and also rude to the other gems who have no access to lion's mane to see it. And Rose wasn't even a bad person! So how does that work with your logic?

@@LunatheMoonDragon I wish that Steven Universe settled that problem like the Owl House did. The Owl House said, "yes while compassion, forgiveness, and empathy builds relationships and character growth, not every person can be redeemed. Some people are beyond redemption and those characters can die." That would be amazing compared to what we got.

@@og_dumpster_fire4482 how would they kill white diamond? Hit her really hard? Would you rather she un corrupted all the gems or try to kill her resulting in the annihilation of the crystal gems?

WOAH WAIT. I never thought of that!

Counter argument:Spinel

@@Heroworld5067 What Pink did to Spinel was inexcusable, but it happened long before her character development really started

Agree. I also have a different interpretation of what Pearl meant by being “fine” with the men. Not so much as in a “it’s whatever I genuinely don’t care” way but in a “human lives are short, Rose is having fun but they’re never anything serious, you’ll have her attention for a moment but I’ll continue being her friend for thousands of years.” Like I don’t really see them as being in an open relationship with poly negotiations. I think Pearl was in love with Rose and it colored their friendship in the way that many queer people have experienced where the friendship becomes a sort of ambiguous situationship. But I don’t think Rose really knew of that love as romantic or reciprocated romantic feelings or attraction

I think they did love eachother (rose and pearl) but the issue is there was still always te tention about did pearl love rose or did she love her because she was her diamond. pearl did tend to put rose on a pedestal at times still and seemed to jave a issue with seeing them as equals. like how pearl kept throwing herself in danger for rose instead of fighting together and seeing rose cared for her to and then eventually created a gap between them. one of thereasons rose was so happy when pearl came up with the ideafor rose to pretend to be a quarts was because people could treat her normally and not revere her.... but as much as they loved eachother they both held eachother back a bit....pearl KNOWS rose was/is pink which probably does color the way pearl treats her with the old habit of being in charge like she was a pink.....while pearl was held back because even if shetrly loved rose.....it did hold back pearl a bit because pearl did still rely on her a bit as 'her diamond, her rose' who she was put to serve. pearl's way of loving tended to not demand a equal treatment.... and i think thats what drew rose to greg....greg was upfront about how he felt and what he wanted and there wasno debate of it being his choice unlike how with pearl you could say she was still fullfilling her directive of making her diamond happy even if rose new there was more to it. and greg called out the behaviour he didnt like with rose andwanted to be seen as a equal and he didnt think she was above him to to speak. and this helped rose grow in a new way because greg pushed her in that direction that pearl couldn't do. considering how rose loooked at her inthe flashback i do think rose has feelings for pearl....but it does raise on if they ever discussed it properly and it wasnt to the degree of say ruby and saffire

@@R.444- Honestly? I feel like this is the same for a lot of people; their own life experiences color how they interpret a lot of the character motivations and how they would feel within this emotionally charged but very vaguely written show. That said, my own life experiences colored my interpretation of Rose and Pearl's relationship just like that. I had a friend, a best friend. We were so close and knew each other for so long that we got along like we were made to be friends. I would platonically say that she was my soul mate... Except not platonically because I can say for sure that I was in love with her. I'm not a lesbian, or bi. Ace is probably the best label. She was straight and constantly looking for a boyfriend. But I loved her in a "I want to grow old and pay taxes and die together" way. In a "I just want to be part of your life and you part of mine forever" way. I knew that she wanted a boyfriend and a husband and to get married and start a family and have kids and stuff. But it's like... I didn't mind? No relationship she would get into would ever have what *we* had. And any guy who ever made her feel like shit about herself I would be there to tell her she was the most kind, amazing, beautiful person I had ever known and it was that guy's loss, and the next guy will be better or he doesn't deserve you and mean it. I wanted to beat anyone who ever made her feel bad with a trash can! And I was content to just be there even knowing she couldn't feel the same about me. Until her last boyfriend before our friendship fell apart. Not the same as Pearl's situation mind you but well... I was fine with the idea that she would have special men in her life. Just not *that one*.

Yep, they were never in a romantic relationship, all of what we seen is just pearl having a crush

@@KichiMiangra It touches my heart to know people who have gone through the same situation that I and Pearl did. In the exact same way I had devoted myself to my best friend. I told him that I wanted to live my entire life with him and that I only ever wanted to be with him (fortunately, he is kind of a dunce and everything I said flew over his head). I had tried just having a platonic relationship, but the truth is that it was growing more and more romantic for me. He'd been very open about not valuing the people in his life. He knew he had a purpose to do something big, and he felt he had to do it alone. Me and my friends had tried to convince him otherwise but it wasn't any use. The inevitable started happening and he began to distance himself from me. Avoiding me. Seeing other people. It was slowly ruining me, but it wasn't nearly as heartbreaking as when I heard he had fallen for my sister. I'd always thought when he got married I would be able to stay close to him...somehow it didn't occur to me that he would end up abandoning me.

Dude. I felt the same. I was so confounded by the reaction of the fandom and show itself. Rose deserved forgiveness and compassion. Not bitterness and judgement. She genuinely changed and truly sacrificed a lot to save/free her fellow gems and give birth to Steven. Like. Come on. I was very disappointed to see that her friends and son not forgive and understand her.

@@viridianacortes9642 Yes!! I agree!! She made so many sacrifices while having to deal with the traumatic impact her parents made on her. All of her virtues are right in front of our eyes the whole time, yet are overlooked because the constant 'rose was selfish' narrative. And how could Steven and the gems really just... forgive millennia-old world destroyers just like that (the diamonds acting as if the idea of resolution hadn't been presented to them in the past)? And continue to blame rose for what the diamonds brought unto her via their abusive actions? Theres a lot I love about this show, but I really cant forgive the team for the direction they steered the story towards.

literally

@@catsquid2632 and it sucks because i see a common theme that they really portray mental illnesses so well!? its so .... like what happened there with pink/rose?? and it got so messy at the end, so rushed, but the music and the way things were written were so nice, then it took a big crap at the end

RELATABLE AF lol. I still proudly wear and keep my rose quartz memorabilia

Especially if what you're relating to are the parallels to neglect and abuse from family, only to see everyone including the creators view the other Diamond's decisions and actions as ultimately Pink's fault, her sole responsibility to predict and stop with no room allowed for her to be flawed or misjudge something like other characters have. Only allowing for her to be a perfect victim is terrifying, that "well obviously they're just going to keep being like this, so it's all on you" mindset whenever something goes wrong or you can't stop your abuser from harming other people can cause real damage irl.

@@thatboringone7851 That's not the point of the show. Pink did a lot of bad things, could be cruel, insensitive, unempathetic, that's the part people and the show criticize and SHOULD criticize. But the show still gives her sympathy for her miserable upbringing, but it doesn't excuse her behaviors.

@@m0m055 It doesn't matter if that's the point of the show or not, that wouldn't change the circumstances they wrote Pink into. It's not reasonable to portray or view a character as bad for not having been able to perfectly control or prevent the harmful actions of their abusive family, or for not having been able to perfectly save everyone from the situation that abusive family had created. She had flaws - she's shown being insensitive towards humans out of either ignorance or not taking their feelings seriously enough (or some mix of both), and I do personally see silencing Pearl about the fake shattering as cruel (it is one thing I feel could have been safely avoided). Difference is most people don't seem to talk about these kinds of flaws in the far more thoughtful way people talk about the flaws Lapis or Peridot have. Instead Pink ends up being blamed for her own abuse and seen as outright bad by both fans and the writers, it's assumed she could have always done more in situations where we know very little about what _anyone_ would have even been able to do or not do. It's... kind of horrifying, honestly.

@@thatboringone7851 The antecedent is false. The writers don't portray her as bad for not being able to control the Diamonds actions/abuse. Whenever her home is brought up the show goes to extensive length to make you sympathize with her : 'I guess I'd have to face that in this awful place... I'd rather be free' 'this isn't normal... how many times did you make her cry ?' 'You were right to leave' 'didn't we hurt Pink?' 'They can't be worse than mom's family!' & on & on. ( giving examples to support my argument ) However, the writers do portray her shitty actions as shitty and questionable. But imo she was always portrayed as misguided, never as ill-intended.

@@m0m055 It's not false, we just aren't going to agree. On a different comment thread on this video you mention seeing what happened to Spinel as Pink abandoning her. My take is that the diamonds decisions directly caused both Pink and Spinel to end up in that situation, the diamonds had left both with few if any other options (creating Spinel to basically be an entertaining pet for Pink, for example, when Pink doesn't seem to have wanted that), something that both the writers and many fans seem to blame on Pink for not being able to prevent or fix by bringing Spinel back from the garden. That's part of what I'm referring to. Other people have mentioned it in comments on this video, but irl you don't always have the option to safely or legally take others with you when fleeing abuse. Pets, siblings, sometimes children, and other victims of that abuse can often end up left behind. Believing this was Pink's fault, assuming there must have been more she could do but didn't want or care to, assuming she deliberately abandoned Spinel or didn't want to go back, especially without knowing for sure that _anyone_ could even go back for her, it sits uncomfortably close to the same horrific victim blaming real life abuse victims can face when they weren't able to bring others facing abuse with them. This is less relevant (especially as the comment wasn't directed at me) but I particularly and _strongly_ disagree with how you used "Blue and Yellow don't care, they never have" as a reason that Pink doesn't think about how her actions effect others, in that other comment. That would be a very reasonable and understandable thing for anyone facing the same kind of abuse to believe.

Definitely a good point, not only did she likely have trouble getting passed missing P Pearl. She also had every reason to try to *never get close to any gem again* because if she cares to much, they might get hurt. But despite that I do think Pink had genuine affection for Spinel.

Either way, I’m glad this video exists, this Rose hate bandwagon has gone off the rails and seeing a coordinated push back is refreshing. I remember the week the movie was released I had seen a post on Tumblr of someone suggesting if Rose had lived to raise Steven that she would have been annoyed by him and left like she had with Spinel, which, just... *NO* What doesn’t help is that we’re seeing Rose’s journey backwards and without her being there to give her side of things Steven has to figure it all out himself. A real shame too, Rose loved Steven more than anything, but he doesn’t know what to make of her. And so much of the animosity between them could be solved in just one conversation between the two of them. IDK, it’s sad to me since I’m pretty close to my Mom...

If I was Pink Diamond I wouldn't have trusted any of the replacements for her original Pearl, thinking they were probably spies for Yellow and/or Blue and/or White. Over the course of many centuries, her new "sensible" Pearl might have proven herself to merit Pink's confidence, but Spinel--even if she wasn't an outright Diamond Authority plant--was way too wacky to trust with serious responsibility or secrets. (For that matter, it was demonstrated that there were some things that Pink/Rose felt she couldn't share with Pearl.)

I definitely see your point there. It also doesn’t help that Spinel was meant to represent everything the other Diamonds were pushing Rose away from. To Rose, the other Diamonds gave her two choices, either leave Spinel and everything she represents behind to act like a more serious Diamond, or be seen as a child forever and give up on ever gaining their respect and thus their love. It was a completely fucked situation no matter how you look at it and the fault falls completely on the Diamonds for forcing Rose to have to make that decision at all.

Something else to point out is the only time a gem physically cannot go against a diamonds will is when a diamond says "I order you". Pink told Spinel to stand still and continue to play their games. She didn't order Spinel. Also, Pearl clearly knew about her as well. So, it makes no sense for fans to call out Rose when Pearl was right there too

And besides the only space ship she ever had was her Pink Diamond ship. If she used that ship her identity would probably been revealed.

THANK YOU!!! I've been looking for an explanation for this!!!

And yeah she did leave Spinel b4 she knew what was happening to Earth, but I'm assuming it was only for like, a day or two (And yes leaving someone there for even a day is bad, but she's been locked in a room for thousands of years, that's what she thought was normal growing up.)?? Then she discovered intelligent life on Earth, and had the weight of an entire planet and all of it's life on her shoulders, plus a rebellion and alter-ego.

people with braincells in this comment section epik anyway thats what so many people ignored about her she got so much goddamn problems to work with that there is almost never a breathing room for her back then (e.g trying to be a crystal gems leader, protect earth, convince the diamonds, dealing with the war and etc.) thats why her solutions are sometimes sloppy its because she have no time to think she HAVE TO make a solution immediately before it gets worse beyond repair

Yea Anyone who says she MEANT for Steven to suffer all the burdens she carried Is someone not worth listening to She never meant for Steven to be forced to deal with her stuff or her mistakes

@@quinnholloway5400 greg even said it in the nora tape said, she wanted steven to live a normal life

"She tried her best" Spinel, still waiting in the garden for a video call to say she can leave: 🧍‍♀️

@@Raccocooney the galaxy wraps were destroyed so that wasnt happening

it’s like taking a toy from your child, they want it back but can’t get it.

She did hurt Pink Pearl but I still don’t fully blame her for what happened with that

@@thefoxcelotclub me either. it was a complete accident and pink pearl even said so herself. it was just the product of one of pinks tantrums. yes, it was completely pinks fault, but it was never done on purpose and she never meant to hurt anyone or give pink pearl the trauma that she did.

I like to think that maybe she went to white diamond to see if she could fix pink pearl. But instead they swapped pearls and pink was forced to see her friend brainwashed.

Yeah your right!

It makes me annoyed that now rose quartz is found to be pink, she's now labeled as a villain. She should be under heros still. Both in her secret form and her real form.

yeah like, we wouldn't have the show if not for her??? She literally saved planet Earth, she should be THE hero of the show.

Respectfully I disagree, Especially with the Zuko comparison. If we were to at zukos story from the end we'd simply be led back to what made zuko sympathetic in the first place. His quest to restore his honor and return home. We'd also be led to the steps zuko took to become better and make up for his actions. One of the whole reasons as to why pink dimound is hated is that she never took any of these steps he did. She never actually faced any consequences for any of her actions, Spinel nothing, all the gems that shattered in the war against herself, bubbling bismuth and lastly her treatment of her old pearl volleyball. Non of any of these are never resolved by her only her son which was the straw that broke the camels back for people. She had done some good don't get me wrong, but she also had plenty of unresolved problems that became everyone else's problems. Even the in the show amethyst shows her frustration about dealing with problems caused by pink dimound that she shouldn't have had to deal with. That's all

True but she wouldn't get shattered she would shape shift into her new form before they could even shatter her into the evil version except no make up tears but she would be really useful

Yeah, she has some crazy moves ,, I mean : she poofed all the gems. But she could get shattered like many gems in the war so idk

Dragon JJ the only reason she turned into the “evil” Spinel is because she was upset. She wouldn’t be upset if she was with the crystal gems, so she would have a different form

Or being corrupted

Dragon JJ she became her “evil version” because of trauma. It’s not something that has an on and off switch

Also, how the hell was she supposed to know Spinel would just stay there? Just staying there forever is crazy behavior. I would never expect that from someone unless they are crazy.

@@viridianacortes9642 that's a really good point. Even the most well trained dog would get bored and do something else.

honestly they fail to put themselves in her shoes im sorry id be annoyed by Spinel as well

Child: is annoying Parent: abandons child This guy: perfectly justified.

@@datfoxguy4273 Considering that the parent was also a child.... :|

Before shattering herself, couldn’t she as Pink Diamond, make plans for Spinel. Not risky, but instructing a gem to play with her or take her to the human zoo? Spinel and the zoo humans would get along and it would be normal and justifiable for Pink Diamond to do. Considering how much Blue revered Spinel after she was found and Pink’s old zoo, Blue didn’t know where Pink’s garden was. She could have given one of the diamonds the location. Even under the theory that Pink believed the diamonds didn’t love her, moving Spinel out of the garden into a different “respectable” place would work. Leave her on homeworld, but don’t isolate her.

@@billie-ve_in_yourself6464 for all she knew as soon as she didn't served a purpose she's as good as shattered at least before pink's death

​@@billie-ve_in_yourself6464the Human Zoo was created in response to Pink's protests about life dying. She probably didn't like it at all.

That's not committing suicide. That was self sacrafice. There's a huge difference.

​​@@nate.rrrrrr Not really. Self sacrifice would be giving your life for someone who already exists. She DECIDED to have Steven DESPITE knowing it would basically end in her death. It would be one thing if she was already pregnant when she found out about this but it is implied that she knew before. She CHOSE to give up her existence. That is as close to suicide as you can get

THANK YOU! Finally someone said it!

Hell yeah, spread the Rose Defense squad

@@CherryTreatsArt I just found your channel and well... I relate to Pink's story. I have figures like PP, Spinel, and the Diamonds in my life. I have a double life trying to avoid my family. The fact that the Movie and Future made her a villain is just... It broke me. I cut and hurt and cried so much because I thought I was a monster and should get rid of myself like Rose did. Don't worry, I'm better now, but the fact that people like you exist makes me feels a lot better. I have a ton of mental health issues, and one day I'll accept myself. But until then, thanks for showing me that I'm not alone.

@@astrobookwormsinger i see myself as a monster as well but interestingly enough i learned to always share kindness to others even with my abusers while considering myself a tool a doll to be use and left to rot

Ayra-chan STAY ALIVE TIL THIS HORROR SHOW HAS PASSED

it's actually outlast and not outfast oof-

Ayra-chan eyyyy

We're gonna fly a lot of flags half mast.

@@CherryTreatsArt raise a glass

I also do not like the “space nazi” thing because they’re describing characters from a kids show as Nazis...

Doggo_Arrow Becaude they act like nazis and killed millions and tried to destroy the earth along with everything on it and got “redeemed” by being called a child that is not okay

@@kayleelomas5598 again you have probably killed thousands of insects throughout your life without even noticing does that make you a bad person ? You need to understand that these are aliens that are far more superior to us we are probably just insects to them and our morals do not apply to them. Only when rose whose fascinated with life looks at us and sees us as not inferior but different other gems slowly became aware of this too. Similar to how a scientist would study bees and understands that they are very intelligent and hard working beings that should absolutely be preserved you know ? We can’t expect aliens who are legit immortal to immediately understand something as small and insignificant (in the grand scheme of things) as a human being from the get go

​@@kayleelomas5598 yeah they literally canonically killed off all life they met. They tried to brush it under the rug saying there was no other life on other planets. Only to go back on that and show life that was implied to be intelligent on other planets

@@kayleelomas5598 idk imo its not comparable to nazis

exactly, and she made the actual effort to change as well.

i agree the moment i saw steg i just saw a 80s rockstar and it makes sense that they would look like that when they like the same music.i think its a little far fetched to call it insest especially when we've seen very little of him

@@vintage.cornpuff It's just people who are uncomfortable with themselves and their own understanding of sexuality. It's just a father and son having a great time on stage. So glad to see a like minded individual. I was shocked when I saw people jumping the gun to come to the conclusion that Steg is "incestuous". We all know what fusion is and that it's not always romantic. It can be completely platonic. Like Steg.

@@nobinary2296 Fusions are literally just a relationship. Not a romantic relationship, just a relationship, if they hated Steg they should hate literally every fusion other than Garnet and Stevonnie.

this is exactoy how i saw Steg. i was disgusted that ppl were shippin it when it was clearly a father n son embracinf the vibes of rock and music

The show had every chance to make fusion not sexual or romantic but flip a coin and thats the chance that the fusion in the show is going to be either or even both. Its not even trying to be slick with it. Garnet spreading her legs to accept Amethyst into her ( Sexual), Garnet and Pearl practicing fusion with Steven by doing a wall slam (Sexual), Lesbian rocks show affection for each other and protects each other while also fusing (Romantic ), Pearl being jealous and salty by fusing with Rose in front of him making Greg look like a cuck (Sexual). Lapis and Jasper doing a strange co dependent toxic r-word play (sexual) if it wasn't being treated this way it wouldn't have been so dramatic and painful and if it were just a non sexual relationship, it would've be framed as two battle junkies having it out and no one would take that seriously because thats fun for the audience. Put the R word in there now the scene makes sense because it dark, serious , and messed up. Fluorite is a big flag saying "LOOK AT ME IM A POLYGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP". Now you have a Father and Son doing a fusion, a concept at this point that has extremely questionable yet obvious implications. Then we get a hunky dude with a six pack sweating that sings Pearl into a memory orgas^m. Its a very gross implication.

That is confusing because the warp pad still worked

It’s probably because the diamonds didn’t need spinel or forgot about her. They obviously still think of gems as a tool for their own amusement sense blue said “one of PINKS last treasures.” Like really..

agreed sm :( rose literally grew into a good person because she wanted to, wanted equality for gems and to save earth, was terribly abused, and made her decisions judging by what she thought was right !!! anyone who hates her is reaching so bad and it’s frustrating

She literally couldn't leave Earth due to destroying the Galaxy Warp.

We wouldn't have had Steven if they did that and Steven has a right to exist. I know what you're trying to say though.

@@lucasmartinez5703 thanks dude I hope you’re day/night/evening is going well

@@lucasmartinez5703 True but, from the perspective of Rose and Greg, which by the way was the prospect Red Panda was looking at, steven wasn't born yet, and it is like saying ok let's not adopt a child because if we do this a child that doesn't even exist yet won't be born. It is a nice gesture sure but you can't think like that all the time, otherwise, you would never come to a conclusion of what to do in the first place. But I do understand where you're coming from with the whole we the audience wouldn't have steven as a character side of the argument and why would we, want to change that.

I get what you're saying, but I figured Red Panda said what he/she said to suggest that if Steven weren't made the problems Rose caused wouldn't have been made or something.

if steven hadn't existed, everyone would of died oop

😭 im going insane watching ppl hate her

To be fair, when Yellow said that, she had yet to have the realization that how she was treating Pink was abusive. And Steven has a right to be spiteful. Whether Pink intended to or not, Steven did have to deal with the crap that happened because of Pink and the people in her life. I mean, Steven is her son. If anyone has a right to be upset, it's Steven. He is the ONLY one who has a right to not like her and be spiteful because he is the only one who was innocent in the chaos of the crap going on far before him.

@@multiplefandomlover7179 Well, Pink had a very good reason to abandon the Diamonds. Steven and the Earth wouldn't be here if her didn't risk everything for Earth. The people he should be angry at are the other Diamonds not his mother.

@@laurenmungaray3912 While this is true, you can tell how he gives the Diamonds SOME leeway because they at least did come around and are trying to do better, albeit being very clumsy and overbearing with it. But it at least is something compared to how he gets absolutely no closure with Rose/Pink, and in his eyes, did leave him to pick up the pieces of her mess. Steven has every right to feel that way since a lot, if not ALL of the responsibility was left on him to try to fix and it did cause him a lot of trauma. I think that's a fair statement to make, but that's my opinion. I mean, it does show how Steven does clearly have very mixed feelings about his mother as the series went on, and if they were to lean anywhere, it would probably be more on the negative side.

finally someone straight to the point

Coping and seething

@@CherryTreatsArt Wow, you're so mature.

@@CherryTreatsArt It sounds good to you but to me it just makes the character look bad. Are you deaf? You don't hear how terrible that sounds when that nonsense comes out of your mouth? Rose being in a poly relationship without either party consenting to it is yucky. Plus, that's not how poly relationships work. Pearl loved Rose but she didn't love all of her. Pearl couldn't stand on equal standing with Rose and that made Pearl very self-conscious about herself but Greg wanted to be on equal standing with her and accepted ALL of her.

*character