This was outstanding Tom. I guess its not about the length of the video but the content. People value good content and love to watch more of it so this myth about shorter videos being in demand is not fully accurate when it comes to topics like this. You did take time but every minute was worth it, the information you provided justified the time. More power to ya! I recently began watching your stuff and I like everything I have watched so far. Looking forward to more.

0

Hey just want to leave a little feedback. It would be more pleasing to watch if you stood a bit farther away from the camera. Your head is a bit cut off and your hands aren't always in frame. I think it would be a more pleasing viewing experience if it were always possible to see your hands and follow them.

Hey Check out the german system, not taxfunded and democratically organized by representative interest groups of the publick and politicians / with a certain ratio limiting influence, imho the most independent we can get

Framing is the means through which the modern media weaponizes public opinion.

AND I WANT THEM YESTERDAY PARKER.

@@Tom_Nicholas shit, when did Christopher Nolan start writing Spiderman?

*Spider-Man

@@garrett2439 *Supaidah mahn!

@@Ghost_of_Avalon *espider man

This has long irked me. I very much believe in the *idea* of the BBC, but, as it currently exists, it does not fulfil that public service function.

Yes, though RT and Al-Jazeera are more directly controlled by their governments

@@computerfan1079 they're just more open about it

Al-jazerra is state owned by Quatar. But most of the personel are old BBC Arabic staff.

@@currentcomentor1026 Yep. In regards to independence and editorial freedom, Al Jazeera is closer to what most folks would call "public" than "state" media. The BBC was shutting down their Arabic service and the Emir basically said "I'll fund you" with very few strings attached. That was a while ago though... I don't really know the current state of affairs there. Anyways, there's not a clear line or anything... But it boils down to the degree of independence the journalists and editors have. Of course who pays the bills matters a lot, but how much control the state exercises isn't a 1:1 correlation with that. Corporate media isn't independent either. Hell, random dudes on youtube are beholden to what gets them "engagement"

Thanks now the Ts are just bombarding me 🙃

pretty sure thats for the foreigners like me :D Didnt even realize i heard those, and now i wonder how long he trained for that xD

This is what pop filters are for.

Thank you, really glad you thought that helped. Hope you enjoy the rest of the video!

What specific, helpful feedback

@@Tom_Nicholas knows how to frame and structure his own media presentation in the exact same manner as the subject of said media presentation. Its sad how few people realise this...

@@soulsurvivor8293 Well he is a individual who does exclusively political youtube video, based on his on opinion and not a Multi-Million Dollar News Agency that claims to be neutral.

@@soulsurvivor8293 making arguments is a sign of BIAS, checkmate KZfaq video essays

Ahh, thank you, that's very kind of you to say!

I knew when I saw the length of the video

Is this actually Rami Ismael watching Tom Nicholas? Love your games, sad to see Vlambeer go.

He indeed did.

I've always interpreted that saying as "It was good but you were trying too hard.."

Journalism school student as well; this report is simply amazing. Truly next level academic analysis. I want to share this with my ethics professor!

journalism student. this video has given me a framework for a fantastic media analysis thanks Tom!

As a current student of the Sociology of Visual Communication & Design course, I agree.

Can you help me

@@thomasbeaumont8884 Yes absolutely what can I help with?

It really was chilling. And it was replicated on pretty much all the main channels too...

Just goes to show what state our media is in

@@samuelwilkin5 Just goes to show what state your country is in.

@@MPostma72 Can't really argue with that.

It's good that they're turned into statistics, since that's the only way to get an idea of the scale of a problem... It's objective... You should applaud that...

Haha, I appreciate your contribution to the cause!

The algo-god rises.

The same mysterious technological deity also brought me here! I will begin watching it later, for 55 minutes sounds like a long time.

Algo-god, hear me!

I too, make my offering

Mmm, so he makes the claim that talking about the numbers is a dehumanizing tactic, used to make these Iraqi migrants appear unworthy of sympathy. Later, he tells us that in the 90's and early 00's, the media was painting these same migrants as worthy victims. What he doesn't touch on is whether or not reports of suffering under Saddam Hussein were presented anecdotally or statistically. And I'm sure you could find examples of either, but broadly speaking, that was done statistically. It's what you might think of as talking out of both sides of your mouth. There's nothing wrong with Tom having political leanings or in him trying to persuade others to his leanings, but he's dealing in rhetoric, not in grounded logical argumentation.

@@michaeltorrisi7289 No it wasn't. The reporting on victims of Saddam were anecdotal as much as statistical. But it doesn't really matter. Tom's argument is that whether "victims" are portrayed as "worthy" or not depends on those victims' relationship with British (in this case) Foreign Policy. There's no doublespeak there, it's pointing out a contradiction. Your comment is not grounded in logical argumentation.

For the college experience

@@Rolando_Cueva $30,000 networking event

@@Rolando_Cueva Crippling debt and a stimulant addiction?

As long as it wasn't sociology, psychology or gender studies it probably wasn't a total waste. Also I don't think you can get the certificate watching youtube videos. Now there's a money spinner.

@@alanrobertson9790 Do you actually believe our society doesn't need people with a psychology degree?

Dammit. Pretty much whatever I cover in a video, some of the worst examples of that thing tend to end up being advertised before it!

Christ is it ever.

I've gone out of my way to hide and report these ads every time the show up, and it makes no difference. It's so frustrating!

@@Tom_Nicholas rather have shit ads here where most people will be able to recognize them for what they are, rather than somewhere else where another, more impressionable person may see it and be negatively affected by it

KindleT Witt The right wing spends a lot on ads. The KZfaq algorithm does not differentiate left from right.. only keywords. I’m constantly getting right wing ads.

Yeah, I think I'm right in saying that, in the UK, there's a far higher proportion of privately educated and Oxbridge educated people in the media than in the rest of the population. As you suggest, this is going to massively shape how they cover something like the benefits system as its simply something they'll never have experienced.

@@Tom_Nicholas Yes I hadn't even considered the class privilege side of things. Btw Thanks so much for making this video-this issue bothered me so much I actually felt like I would have had to make something like it myself-and I'm glad I didn't because it wouldn't have been as good as this.

@@Tom_Nicholas This is partly because getting a good journalism job requires contacts and often working as an unpaid intern for a year or so to get a foot in the door. Naturally it tends to be people with generational wealth on their side who have the means to do this.

@@Tom_Nicholas The class privilege issue is just as rampant in US Media, too, and gives it a huge, completely intentional blind spot.

Class privilege issue is also even more prevalent in India for a really long time.

Thats more of a one-line joke or wordplay, rather than any significant statement that ought be made in a debate about inherent media biases. Aka I like George Carlin and he had views ahead of his time, but that bit is largely irrelevant here.

@@swine13 the full segment (prior to that punchline) explains how the corporate masters who own the press and the government and us don't want us to be critical thinkers. That leads up to the punchline regarding the American dream. I think it's relevant to the myth of the free press.

@@itWouldBeWise those choice of words make us sound like conspiracy nuts but I generally agree

it turned from dream into nightmare when Leftist boomers took over the institutions

@@bademoxy leftist boomer is easily the funniest dumbest most oxymoronic term i've heard

I think one of the benefits of the "filter" model is that it accounts for the fact that a lot of the process is out of the hands of individuals journalists. While they obviously still play a role, a lot of it is about shaping the context in which they're working so that it *feels* like they're doing a better job than they are.

@@Tom_Nicholas agreed. btw, the police example you brought up has been a longtime point of ours. this is a particular area in which i have seen/believe journalism has never done its role but has consistently pat itself on the back for doing so, whilst it denied the role it was playing in acting as a pr outlet including not doing any journalistic due diligence on information passed to reporters or news outlets. the rationale being "this is teh only reliable source of information on this", which wouldnt fly for any other form of story at all.

@@kingofracism all lives mater, before you even go there. in case you are being honest in wanting to expand your views, the meaning behind black lives mater simply means that it's 2020 yet, still getting born in USA, you would do good for yourself being born white, not black. In the eyes of the system, all of various government bodies, police and courts, insurance companies, healthcare providers, welfare and unemployment offices,zoning comissions, it's 2020 and your color still maters. What's much more disgusting if you ask me, is that it's made that way on purpuse, little by inertia, but much more as a way to create an outlet for the white working poor. So that they could in their frustration look down on someone and think at least I am better then them. All of which just serves the purpuse of not rocking the boat and questioning the legitimicy of paid in full goverment, comprised of people that have nothing in common with an average working American and don't represent their interests in the slightest. In short, if you are a racists in 2020, just do the rest of hamanity a favor and do a vasectomy.

@@kingofracism That's interesting. You've replied to me, I got alerted by yt app, yet reply only shows in my gmail inbox. You know, I don't really comment or start debates in any public or private places for reasons other then exchanging ideas and maybe learning something new. I see your point of view, but if you start your reflection on the world with all life don't mater, suicide seems like a logical next move. You obvioualy don't think that, otherwise why waste time and energy on a comment. I live dark humor, but if you are depressed, maybe seek some help..

@@Tom_Nicholas I remember seeing a clip of Chomsky being told by a journalist that they only write what they genuinely believe, to which Chomsky said something along the lines of, “I have no doubt that you believe what you write, because if you didn’t believe what you do, you’d be out of a job.” Basically, the circumstances leading up to journalists getting their positions, including prior work, means that major outlets select for those with views that correspond with their own.

Well I've just found the name for the playlist

Is this a public playlist? I love video essays like this!

But can you maintain this much objectivity in your IAS exams? And then service later? You will do state's bidding?

Him and Bad Empanada are amazing

It was a really tough balance to strike; both wanting to keep the analysis bit feeling rigorous whilst also wanting to not end up just echoing the dehumanising aspects of the report itself in that analysis. I hope the final section of this video manages to, at least in some small way, speak back to some of that stuff and re-inject a bit of empathy into the discussion.

It's even more frustrating when the caravan that came in October of 2018 to influence the election not a single person mentioned the caravan that came 6 months before and nothing happened then

That little boat is just a scene to fill in the video. Boats are alot bigger and there's alot more of them to be fit in.

@@xenomorphexidious9102 More vulnerable people to help rather than use to justify racial hatred.

@@marcorock7031 Yeah lets help them in their own land. Its overall easier.

Thanks, I'm really glad you found it insightful!

The media fabricates news all the time about Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea and China. But it is easier to fabricate news when it happens on other countries, specially if they're isolated.

@@matheusvillela9150 Gotta agree. I liked the video but the BBC and other news sources in the UK are guilty of fabrication when it comes to stories outside of the country.

Also boris Johnstone prawn cocktail crisps conspiracy

See also: police unions.

It's not the first time I have heard it,we have some in OZ too

@@byrongsmith please, being right wing or especially somewhat wanting to preserve your culture and blood is essentially forbidden today. The police harras nationalists, no doubt you highly agree with that behaviour.

@@hanswestmar4249 So forbidden that the president of the most powerful empire in human history made it his personal philosophy.

@@hanswestmar4249 You lost me at "blood". I see the thing with culture, but "blood" is a talking point exclusive to Nazis and it should stay that way.

What can I say? Their offer was too generous to refuse...

Tom Nicholas i respect you for your honesty. let’s hope they don’t alter their deal.

@@Tom_Nicholas why does this sound like they threatened you?

@2manynegativewaves what a piece of junk!

The outcome of the VHS/Betamax War was actually decided by... porn.

I remember my teacher making us take a political compass test beforehand, so we could address our biases. 11 year old us didn't understand what any of the questions meant, but I appreciate the effort -- even if wider society just accepts the way the media is.

I literally once had to write an Article for english and I had points taken away for not being biased enough.

At least in Germany, there are different styles of journalistic writing. The biased one is called "boulevard" iirc and is usually about nonpolitical topics like obesity, vaccines etc. that want you to take a standpoint. The other one is full neutral and e.g. about an accident or some short summary of a speech or address.

That's a good point! Although sometimes i think its perfectly fine if the journalist has an opinion they're pushing. It becomes a problem when it's no longer easily distinguishable which is which, or when there is only one of the two, which I'm pretty sure is where we are right meow

Alchemic Punk well she’s culturally left wing. She may be slightly auth and economically right wing but she’s still culturally right wing

Blanc Müll so she isn’t left wing lol. “Liberals “ in the US are the same. The right calls Obama & Biden socialist. It’s so dumb my mind is numb

PJ Q well Obama was culturally left wing second term. Granted though he was kinda like Trump first term. But he’s centre left economically

@@blancmull3886 she voted against gay marriage for example..

@@blancmull3886 I have some news for you. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z7J8ob1eleDdeJs.html

Suppose we've gotta find something to do whilst all the theatres are closed...

Person who is remotely left, central or not quite far enough right: makes content Internet: Commence bullying

Well i for one am very pleased that some theatre kids are reading 'Manufacturing Consent' and showing it's relevance in the 21st century......as well as being able to spell 'theatre'.

Ok neolibtard

@@a.n.l.aantineoliberalismas4504 Disagree with them all you like, but drop the slur.

Haha, there's definitely a point to which, having spent more than a week writing something, it's much easier to be level-headed about a topic. When I'd first been watching the clip through I was pretty outraged but having worked on it for so long meant that I at least could have a bit of distance on it.

@@Tom_Nicholas Really appreciate what you're doing though Tom :)

Thanks!

I couldn't watch the whole thing because of the (annoying unnecessary repetitive propagandistic) background music. Sorry. For content as rich as this is, the background music is distracting and detracts from what you could be accomplishing without it. Maybe a little bit at the beginning and a tiny bit at the end would be okay..... You might want to consider eliminating it all in the middle.

@@scofah I'm not sure where is this annoying music

@@oscarallen4718 I got to the 37-minute mark and just couldn't take it anymore.... Sounds like carnival sort of saxophony you may have to turn up your speakers to hear it... It just doesn't need to be there. This guy has some good information that doesn't need that music.

@@scofah this is honestly the most "old man shouting at the clouds" thing ive seen all week

Ahh, thank you Llewelyn, I'm really glad you found it easy to follow-that's always my most important consideration!

Thank you Suraj! Hope you enjoy this video!

Haha, I'm definitely hoping to use some of the newly-found free time to keep improving my videos. I am also going to try to get a bit better at having some occasional time off too though (which, to be honest, will probably also help make my videos better...)!

@@Tom_Nicholas All in the service of better videos! Whatever it takes! I already have a bit of a backlog of videos of yours that I really, really want to watch. So you're already doing fine in that regard. If my taste is any indication.

Haha, glad I've provided you with a way to kill some time!

@@Tom_Nicholas If it's just about killing time, I watch less decent stuff. Watching your videos is about more than minute murdering.

Ahh, that's very kind of you to say, I'm really glad you get something out of them!

Thanks Lucy, I'm really glad you got something out of it. And I've been very pleasantly surprised by people's responses to the length!

Wouldn't manufactured consent work to for example by convincing an identifiable group of people that all these masses of people to their country is a good thing, even though it will push down wages, push up house prices, increase demand on resources, require more green land to build on, reduce social cohesion and the most important one guarantee that they wont exist within a certain amount of generations in the future. So it goes against all common sense to do and yet some how we all agree to it but we've never voted for it. I mean what healthy thinking group of people consciously throw their ancestors struggles away in the past and their own people's existence in the future unless their consent had been, manufactured?

LoL, of course there is no "one source" of the "truth" because all news and sources have their own biases. What you view as a chore is standard in Europe. For example, in Norway the best new source is the state new channel. Omg Communism!?! No, but rather that they are not directly controlled by the government via regulation protection, they are funded by taxes that the government has limited impact on (they cant just change it o a whim), their press workers are defended from their boss via worker regulation and the tv station is not allowed to run ads. In turn it incentives to report what general consensus want to know about and there is no negative asking hard questions. For example as the police department mentioned here. Regulation prevents the police picking in and choosing what is best for them. They are public servants, they have to answer! Ergo, they dont have the leverage one assume or have in USA, for example. Then you have governmental funding support of news media IF they follow a set of rules. In short, not being PR BS ala Fox News. So other private news channels moderate themselves a bit to get this, but also to be seen as valid in context of the states channel. If private shill too much. The consensus will end up them not being trust. That said, which is a good starting point for most news sources in Norway, that doesnt mean there are no bias within the sources. OF COURSE you will get Norway beneficial leaning from NRK (state news), you will get capital bias from economical news sources, left leaning sources will have their given bias and to use an example here. From my point of view, even if BBC is decent, they will have a British lean in their reporting. Here is how one deduct where the middle ground is. Notice I didnt say ideal, regardless of "BBC" facts. I would most likely see NRK reporting as the ideal because they will report in a manner that benefits Nor citizen, aka me among others. Anyway: 1. Know their inherent bias and take their reporting in such context. (Oh, and I dont mean right vs left necessarily, but more in a broader aspect. BBC will always be pro British interests etc) 2. Is the source a mainstream with feeling, very dry fact focused report or pure economical. 3. Check out sources representing the 3 and you find the "truth". You want to know how your opposition view the same issue. You find 3 similar that lean towards their bias. None political example: 1. Mainstream report that winter is going to be cold, but it wont increase power cost too much. 2. Economical focused news focus on increasing money speculation in electric power while people are complaining or being glad that current day infrastructure is as it is. Here, the "truth" should be obvious and considering the positive leaning on 2. It is more likely at 1 is less correct than 2 and one should therefor hedge ones view on the issue if one uses allot of power during the winter. This is how ALL NEWS should be consumed. Not as a peasant that just wants to have a single news source they can "trust" because they are too lazy to pickup a few things here and there during the day. Not all stories have to be interesting to you. There is no need to follow everything, but things you do follow shouldnt just be influenced by one source.

Cheers Chico! It's an awful lot of work that goes into them but it's all worthwhile when they get such a nice response!

He' has a team, most probably made in an Advertising studio after or even during Hrs,. There's hundreds, of those neat half truth video's and their fake looking thru after effects to mask his real identity and looks...he's part of the propaganda he reports on, of course no. actual news, all of that we knew, he won't tell you how they are all actors

@@mutanazublond4391 hope you're doing ok bud

Or "Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky's 1988 book Manufacturing Consent". Didn't notice quite how much I'd repeated that phrase until it came to editing...

Manufacturing liver chirrosis.

Now you know how a good chunk of Americans feel It's extremely frustrating

Ethan Philpot As someone who’s from Ireland we have a somewhat biased media but it’s nothing on the same scale as this. It’s crazy looking at this from an outside perspective

I'm enjoying this thread of people from different countries checking-in to essentially just say "same here". Edit: Although I will add, I think there's always ways to reason with people! As I see it, it's generally about working to find the link between the issue at hand and their everyday life; does the way in which something is framed in the media *actually* track with their experiences?

No use seeking a diplomatic solution when technical ones are available. To quote actual ancient Chinese wisdom "the doctrine of universal love has been a failure"

We have a strong left wing press in Norway but they only seem to cover the minutea of government and cultural issues, and rarely of ever offer up a broader picture of systemic political inadequacy or the resulting economic failings. I live in Morocco now so l can't say too much because I have only ever read the English speaking papers or net news but funnily enough a teacher's strike with protest marches seemed to be portrayed relatively sympathetically on the TV news compared to how the British tabloids might cover a similar event, or at least that's my impression.

I used to do my best to stay up to watch it in the evening. But it's become very prone to client journalism as of late (as I hope I explore in this vid!).

@@Tom_Nicholas Yeah, it's really bad in my view. Keep up the good work Tom, you've helped me out enormously on so many topics!

So glad you've found some of my stuff helpful!

@@Tom_Nicholas I wrote my original comment too soon - I now know why BBC reports are the way they are. So interesting and a bit scary when you grow up taught it's an 'impartial' channel! Thanks again.

I'm super new to communism and am starting to wonder how on earth you seem so calm and sane :). Any tips, because I'm started to feel pretty powerless?

I totally agree. Also none of the faces of the refugees are blurred out, and I doubt the BBC got their consent to be broadcasted

No they totally think very highly of these news stories......i mean people.

Isn't it illegal to facilitate illegal immigration?

I think we should have much stricter borders and be less caring to those who want to seek assistance but you’re right. There is too much subjectivity

The hidden hand works best when we all behave selfishly

@@probrickgamer im sorry but what does that mean

@@pringleaddict5827 This is a disturbing opinion and understanding to have of the political framework that leads to migrant suffering in the first place.For anyone looking for information that is based on statistical, factual, ethical, political histories and contexts of these crises, I highly recommend checking out the book "Border and Rule" by Harsha Walia. The issue is not one of "borders not being strict enough". It is an issue far deeper and more systemic than that.Policing of borders and bordering itself is a result of and reinforcement of the same violent political contexts that lead to refugee suffering.

But even saying that there is a problem is considered "problematic" nowadays.

Thank you, I'm really glad you liked it!

I would argue it's not inherent, but rather acquired. The print media in the UK are so far right, that even a center positioned media can look left leaning. So for a public network to appear impartial, they are forced to position themselves a bit to the right.

Yeah, but no numbers mentioned in the report focused on that at all, though, so, uh, what's your point?

@@src175 Their point is pretty clear to me.

@@src175 The point is that the bias is not necessarily the fact that they focus on numbers per se, but rather which particular numbers they choose to focus on.

I think you know you’re being unnecessarily pedantic, you understood the message conveyed. Even still, either way you’d be reducing real people and suffering to numbers, instead of presenting the refugees as humans in need of help. That would be far less palatable than statistics in the abstract. You’re welcome

@@juhuu13579 They aren't refugees. France isn't at war.

I’ve always loved how deliciously ironic that is. And now you get to pay Jeff Bezos a chunk of your salary each month to read at least one article a week on why taxing the rich is bad.

@@akorn9943 and Tim pool used their slogan to slam one of their journalists who refused to admit that she doxed someone.

Thanks Bernardo, really glad you liked it!

Chomsky is a revisionist!!!

You should look into anarcho-syndicalism, Chomsky's political ideology. You might find it very interesting.

@@artemesaulkov2010 so what?

@@Tom_Nicholas Chomsky can say what he want's, as he repeats the same old little halve facts o&o!, If I had some real news, on the media and how they truly operate, you wouldn't even respond to me, because you're little '' Jillian Assange type of , let's get emotional, with the peoples on those little boats , even single One is an actor, just like BBC Africa eye, seen many doco 's, and they have gone from hyping up little event, to right now , setting up a scripted crime scene's like that Pyramid scam, witch when on. for a while, then they lie and uncover it... instead of the actual problem, why they (not those, I know them personally, so before you start denying it,

Thats one of the things I dont get, is if you went to someone and asked them "do you think 70sec is long enough to accurately and fairly explain a complex problem to someone who has never heard about it before, such that they understand it properly?" I bet pretty much all of them would say "no" - and yet these same people are happy to soak up that much journalism from once source, and suddenly they're an expert on the topic. 🤔

Thanks Penny!

This is a propaganda piece, re-hashing the same old crap , anybody with any sense , knows that, did he tell you that all those boots people were all actors , they also have numerous profiles for fake characters in National Geographic,

@@mutanazublond4391 you meant "Boat" people I assume; and the point of the analysis of that news clip is that the media purposefully manipulates "information" to paint a biased view of events. The people on the boat being actors only strengthens that argument.

Thank you, I'm really glad you liked it!

Why are there many Germans watching English speaking leftist channels? Don't get me wrong it's amazing to see that but out of all countries Germany has a fair share in English speaking youtube 😶. Also I am currently learning German so I would love to see such content being made in German if you don't mind giving me some recommendations! ❤🇩🇪

We still have that, btw. Its just moved to "everyone is now in a detention centre" and thats sort of where it stagnated. Ita actually kinda horrific to think about. We're holding innocent people - families- basically in jail and nothing will get done about it until we vote the current party out of govt for a few years so the opposition can detangle that mess of red tape. The problem is that our Liberal party liked to use "boat people" as a trump card when elections come up, knowing that they can win votes that way (even worse when you realise that "boat" people are coming into the country successfully by plane all the time). I hate our government and media. 😒

If your 'conservative' party is called the "Liberal" party, you're as gone as the US is, and current events would support this theory.

Thanks! It's definitely worth a read. And it's pretty accessible in terms of both language and form too.

Cheers, I'm really glad you've found some of my videos interesting!

Cheers Chris, glad it hooked you!

Thanks George, I'm really glad you've enjoyed some of my stuff!

I second this sentiment

I have the same experience. However, the media reporting process is, like the political process, prone to "expert/source" bias, so journalists might end up getting wrong/incomplete info or fail to process it correctly. Also, they are *processing* it for a broader, non expert audience. So, I give them some leeway.

@@MrZauberelefant the journalist class in general is ill equipped to parse out the difference between an actual expert and a charlatan. In my industry (cosmetics, so yes not that important but still illustrative) journalists routinely use "data" from an org called the EWG. That org poses as a consumer safety protection agency, but they're really a front for a "natural" cosmetics lobby that uses cherry picked and falsified data to confuse consumers. They're good at sounding scientific, impartial and consumer oriented because they're VERY good at marketing. They also show up 1st in any google search for safety in cosmetics or info on cosmetic ingredients, because again, they're marketers and not consumer advocates. The reason that journalists get duped just as easily as consumers is that they're just as educated about basic science as the average consumer, which is not at all. Sure you could say they're callous about this because it doesnt matter/the only negative side effect is people spending far more money than necessary on harmless cosmetics. But they have the same lack of scruples about nutrition, or politics, or almost anything else I have any knowledge of. So it's an indicator of a system wide failure. Period. The entire system has failed the population it purports to serve.

@@elenapopovic2527 but this is a failure of more than just the media - it's a failure of education, for instance. Gosh, how often I wish that the public would know anything about statistics other than a Nazi forged Churchill quote.... The problem ensuing is that people realize that journalists don't know better than that guy on Facebook, so media is to blame for its own demise, true. But what lead to that is far more than journalists being overconfident in their abilities. Thanks for sharing that example from cosmetics, it's an interesting perspective. Again something learned!

@@MrZauberelefant oh yes were in agreement. Its absolutely a function of poor education. For journalists and laypeople as an overall rule. Maybe I've been brain poisoned by a publication known as "adbusters" but I'm also very very partial to the idea of doing away with advertising in any news source. Idk how that could even begin to be done, but then again i also dont know how education could be overhauled considering the incredible insurmountable seeming juggernaut of forces intent on keeping people just educated enough to do a job but not too educated in case they want to change the system

Thank you! It's definitely worth a read, and is generally quite easy to engage with (in a way that not all academic texts are).

Thanks!

I feel this. I get the same shit from my stepfather whenever he corners me into a "conversation" on my progressive views. It's so frustrating, like you said, all they need to do is read a bit on their own and educate themselves, and that's not difficult nowadays

I think this is why I generally think the debate format (at least as it exists online) is pretty useless: the focus is on being able to pull the right thing to say out of your back pocket. In reality, going away and coming back with a better answer a few days later isn't a sign of any kind of intellectual weakness but of actually being dedicated to looking into things rather than simply countering a blow in some kind of boxing match of the mind.

@@anarchistangel2314 I know right. What gets me is that they make me out to be the villain. But there is no nice way to essentially say "you're too ignorant to discuss this. Please go away and do a few months of reading and get back to me." I have even offered to share years worth of educational YT videos and such but they just won't take it. I ask them point-blank "do you care whats true? Do you care if you've been lied to?" and they think I'm trying to trap them which is exactly what the opposition does. Its like the well of discourse is so poisoned and thats how the right likes it. Plus, one of the things I don't like about the left is the "we're too smart and its not our job to educate you" but I kinda think it should be but I don't know how and they won't take any of it. UGH.

@@Tom_Nicholas this is definitely the best way to go about it, yeah. I don't know if it's different in other places (i suspect not), but where i live there are precious few people willing to put an ongoing discussion on hold, and when i come back with more information to continue where we left off, i generally just get the same response: "Why are you bringing that up again? We're done with that, you were wrong."

@@Tom_Nicholas And therein is one of the most toxic problems these days - the aestheitcs of intellectualism with no investment in its practice. Its pure sophistry and grift on the right. It has to be because they're always wrong. I don't think its an accident either. Capitalism has corrupted even conversation because we've been raised on soundbites and 'gotchas.' I have so many discussions even about meaningless things and all anyone cares about is some 'unbeatable' point to K.O their interlocutors. Its madness. Its like there's no goodfaith anymore. And again, I don't think thats an accident either. When there isn't any in media, maybe people have forgotten what it even looks like.