The New Atheists and The Islamophobia Debate

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The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder

The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder

9 жыл бұрын

A listener calls into the show to debate Michael Brooks and Matt Binder on the New Atheists and charges that their Islamophobic...
Filling in for Sam Seder: Majority Report contributors Michael Brooks and Matt Binder
This clip from the Majority Report, live M-F at 12 noon EST and via daily podcast at Majority.FM
Subscribe to us on KZfaq: / samseder

Пікірлер: 166
@Inferno361
@Inferno361 6 жыл бұрын
Caller is an fool.
@Sam-gy3ok
@Sam-gy3ok 8 жыл бұрын
How come when we talk about Islamic extremism we aways have to talk about western imperialism and involvement in the middle east, but when we talk about western imperialism we don't talk about Islamic extremism? This is not about holding the west to responsibility it is about strong cognitive denial of the existence of the jihadi fascist movement.
@BenMedia7
@BenMedia7 3 ай бұрын
No, this is about you wanting to throw off the West's responsibility for the rise of radical Islam by arguing "it's all the fault of that evil, primitive barbaric religion over there".
@AaronFaso91
@AaronFaso91 9 жыл бұрын
MB is right. I was just reading over the polling results on that study from April 2013. Every section either has a heading that stipulates that the results are among those who believe in Sharia law as the law of the land, or it directly states it within the subheadings of the columns in the data tables. The sample size that I saw at the summary of the study was 38,000, which though reasonably big, makes me skeptical about whether or not that's really representative of the world's entire Muslim population (1.3 billion). =\
@manmadesounds
@manmadesounds 9 жыл бұрын
How does your entire staff not understand the topic of discussion?
@BenMedia7
@BenMedia7 3 ай бұрын
They do. They just don't go along with your narrow framing of the discussion
@manmadesounds
@manmadesounds 9 жыл бұрын
You guys are strawmanning the shit out of New Atheists and, specifically, Sam Harris. Do more research. Look at your Likes/Dislikes counts - you guys are making mistakes and your viewers are trying to tell you. Do more research. Have Harris on your show. Hash this out, because so far you guys are assessing, judging, and criticizing a nonexistent person.
@BenMedia7
@BenMedia7 3 ай бұрын
You're just mad that they want to have a more nuanced discussion on Islam instead of just blindly saying "Muslims are evil and barbaric"
@ajr5086
@ajr5086 9 жыл бұрын
When looking at New Atheism, I find that I have mixed views. Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens.. these are important figures to mainstream opinion of secularism and have all greatly improved the public's thoughts on atheists. I've always had a problem with Islam being criticized unreasonably harsh in Harris' works to the point of avoiding that faith's commentary... but, I feel that there's too much to lose if we expect that this gulf being build between us and Harris. I can only think of to ask people to do the less human and more rational thing: to neither reject New Atheism or condone it's Islamophobic side.
@therealcharismatron
@therealcharismatron 9 жыл бұрын
seriously couldn't get past the bickering and over talk just between the hosts. waste of time.
@tknick90
@tknick90 9 жыл бұрын
Please invite Sam Harris on the show. It's infuriating to see you two totally misrepresent his point of view and then beat up on it. American liberalism is so cult like when it comes to Islam, they're so afraid of being grouped in with the bigoted anti-Muslim "lets bomb the middle east" crowd that they have adopted this unwavering protective attitude over Islam as if they're talking about minorities. Any criticism of Islam is immediately dismissed as "broad-brushing" and bigotry.
@treybaker5716
@treybaker5716 5 жыл бұрын
Why are you misrepresenting their viewpoint. They didn’t say you couldn’t criticize Islam, they said using polling data is inaccurate.
@mikemorenilla7444
@mikemorenilla7444 Жыл бұрын
@@treybaker5716 They do say that. There is zero footage of Sam Seder ever criticizing Islam.
@BenMedia7
@BenMedia7 3 ай бұрын
You're just mad they aren't blindly saying "Islam is evil"
@thepokekid01
@thepokekid01 9 жыл бұрын
The most interesting aspect about this topic on Majority Report (if you ask me) is that it kind of shows... how similar we all are. How small we kind of think. Although, maybe that is too much, given that I am coming from the similar mindset of Michael in this, but to see this topic splinter liberal thought is interesting. (I don't know, maybe this isn't coming out how I want to explain it, I don't want to make this out to be a majority, it just seems a lot like sometimes we talk like we have everything rational and together, and to have ideal conflicts like this show that we don't, and can be just as much a follower as a person who thinks global warming doesn't exist or blindly submit to partisan ideas)
@papersplease
@papersplease 9 жыл бұрын
I subscribed to Sam Seder, not Matt and Michael.
@911sausageman
@911sausageman 9 жыл бұрын
I hear you. Unfortunately, he wouldn't respond much differently.
@jay81rd
@jay81rd 9 жыл бұрын
MajorityReportLIVE Invite Same Harris on the show.
@Constantstate
@Constantstate 9 жыл бұрын
"interviews conducted in five southern provinces only" that was only in Thailand! Read the whole thing before shooting your ignorant mouth off and trying to fudge the facts that are right in front of you. You are so intransigent when people don't agree with your views, you can't even see the truth. You are completely misreading the poll, both questions and results. Also, it is you guys who are putting words in Sam Harris' mouth claiming he is painting all muslims with the same brush. He does no such thing! He is against the pernicious ideas of the Qu'ran, (and bible and anywhere else such harmful ideas exist) not all muslims individually.
@Socialism_on_Roids
@Socialism_on_Roids 9 жыл бұрын
As someone who has been active in Progressive politics going on ten years, I think Michael has really discredited himself on this issue. While it's true that the Koch Bros and their hedge fund billionaire allies have done near-irreparable damage to the integrity of our political process, we cannot ignore the damage that having an uninformed.misinformed electorate can have on our body politic. We simply cannot ignore the elephant in the room that is the willful stupidity of at least a third of our voting block. The same 25-30% who voted against FDR back in the 1930s are the same 25-30% who stuck with the GOP till the bitter end in our time. The biggest problem with our Progressive movement however is one that only developed in the last twenty years; That is, half of our movement wants to stick it's head in the sand and avoid offending anyone, thereby assuring that pluralism and tolerance are killed from within all the while deriding the other half of the Progressive movement that won't join them as closeted bigots or intolerant. Islamic Fundamentalism is every bit as much a long-term threat to skepticism, the Enlightenment, and the ideals of Progressivism as the modern American Right.
@911sausageman
@911sausageman 9 жыл бұрын
Exactly... even more of a threat I'd say. It threatens the basic separation of church and state, something that Christians on the right understand for the most part. Liberals just don't want to 'offend' Muslims. It's a willful blindness. How many more children strapped with bombs will it take...
@911sausageman
@911sausageman 9 жыл бұрын
***** um not quite. Look up the full quote instead of believing quote mined smears.
@USVIsteve
@USVIsteve 9 жыл бұрын
why do atheists have to talk about religion all the time? I'll tell you why. because at least in this country, usa, it happens to affect my damn life as it is reflected in policy. that's why. if it didn't we wouldn't give a crap.
@AssClappicus
@AssClappicus 9 жыл бұрын
I love majority report, and this is a comment for everyone in broadcasting.. yall need to let people finish their sentences
@BottleConcreteBlond
@BottleConcreteBlond 9 жыл бұрын
You and Affleck strawmanned Harris's argument. He was saying that liberals won't criticize Islamic ideas like we'll criticize Christian or even Jewish ideas--and Affleck and the response from people like Michael have actually proven Harris is right. That other religions have equally crazy ideas doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to criticize the bad ideas of specific religions.
@blechtic
@blechtic 9 жыл бұрын
Matt, Michael, can't you fucking let the caller make his point first before jumping on him? This is like watching Fox News: You jump on a person before he gets make his point, ask question on the point you jumped on which is beside the point he was trying to make, don't let them provide any answer other than yes or no, demand an answer, keep talking all over the guy about your own (talking) points and don't let him talk. Why bother taking calls if you don't let the callers talk? I don't think the caller was expecting a debate but a conversation and even then if the other side gets to talk for over 90% of the time, what's the point?
@therealBAR
@therealBAR 9 жыл бұрын
Regarding the causes of our lack of action on climate change, of course the money talks, but this is far from an either/or question. The credulity of the electorate is as necessary a tool for those who buy our politicians as the money they use to buy them. Therefore, undercutting the knee-jerk deference given to religion almost everywhere (Christianity, Islam and others) is far from a useless endeavor, and why more honest engagement of Sam Harris' actual arguments would be a welcome development. We would be wise to remember Seneca's thoughts on the intersection of religion and politics, most poignantly, the last part: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as USEFUL." - Seneca (ca. 4 BC -AD 65) [emphasis mine] [And, yes, I'm aware that the attribution of this quote to Seneca is a matter of some uncertainty.]
@WBWWproductionz
@WBWWproductionz 9 жыл бұрын
The point about the economic system seems to fly over these peoples heads. There are economic forces which benefit from uneducated and superstitious populaces. Religion in itself (however much I might find certain religious teachings backwards and stupid) is not the core problem of todays world.
@Comrade_mommy
@Comrade_mommy 9 жыл бұрын
I'm totally fan-girling over Michael's well informed intellect providing a TKO to a Sam Harris fanboy-it's sad the way these guys-intelligent, educated & normally logical thinkers are putting the blinders on and wallowing around in deliberate ignorance to keep their new atheist heroes on their pedestals-it's hard when someone you believe in fucks up-I'm still mourning the Barack Obama I adored in 2008 but I'm not blinded by the reality that far from being a true progressive he's much closer to center right on important issues-it happens but what's sad is that these New Atheist fanboys are doing the same thing that they deride and mock evangelicals for-they have deified Harris, Dawkins etc. and bristle at information that contradicts what their "Great One" has proclaimed-when it comes to their new Gods of Atheism they are more then willing to stay ignorant-I'm not a fan of any organized religion for many reasons-I've enjoyed a lot of what men like Hitchens and Harris have said and I'm saddened when they use their atheism as an excuse for their Islamophobia-
@Constantstate
@Constantstate 9 жыл бұрын
They are not islamophobic. Liberal pundits (like these two) have been lying about them and saying they are, and it seems you and some other less thoughtful people like being told what to think instead of listening to what Sam or others who speak out against bad ideas actually say. Answer this... Does the Qu'ran actually say to kill infidels? .... (Spoiler alert... Yes.) So what is irrational about fearing these people who hold it to be the infallible word of the creator of the universe? Nothing is irrational about it... that is the right kind of fear to have, and wanting to talk about these ideas in a public forum does not make one a racist. (more correctly a bigot, but so many liberals use racist and bigot interchangeably)
@LoveJungle420
@LoveJungle420 3 жыл бұрын
I am a huge Sam Harris fan, but I always found his talks on Islam as off. I couldn't articulate clearly how he would generalize sharia law as being the whole of the Muslim community. Sometimes Sam is so logical and philosophical, I feel like he foregoes the systemic and sociological implications of a particular issue. I feel like he does the same thing on racism and police brutality. Choosing formal theory over critical theory.
@mikemorenilla7444
@mikemorenilla7444 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, he lies about Sam's views to provide a "TKO". What a hero.
@01andak
@01andak 9 жыл бұрын
You people nailed it. We would see genocide everyday if any of the fictions that are being touted around were true. Just a single example. Bad as the Prophet cartoon violence was, there were also examples of peaceful demonstrations where tens of thousands of Muslims attended and there was no violence. In fact, the violence happened in exactly the places where violence always happens, in places of extremism. It was not universal among Muslims.
@mgjscdhl
@mgjscdhl 9 жыл бұрын
Just what exactly are "new athiests"?! The fact your bringing their (Maher/Harris) personal, religious beliefs into the debate makes me think this is about a couple of theists (you) bashing a couple of athiest because they exposed the problems with religion (in general)..
@Antifa_Gini
@Antifa_Gini Жыл бұрын
Calmly bigoted caller, I hope he woke up
@Colls515
@Colls515 Ай бұрын
Hi. Here from the future. MB ended up being totally right
@Sam-gy3ok
@Sam-gy3ok 8 жыл бұрын
Learn about Indonesia and Malaysia before throwing their problems under the bus! In both Malaysia and Indonesia FGM is very prevalent, and both have repressive Islamic law regimes to various extents depending on where you are. The "five southern provinces" are probably the more liberal ones in comparison to the northern province of Aech which is under full-on sharia (whipping, amputations, death ect for the normal "crimes" of adultery, blasphemy ect.). This is not the only problems facing people in these countries, and yes they are more "moderate" than say Saudi, but would you really say this is a good thing if it was a white Christian country? So long as this is the main talking point from the so-called left, the right will eat this issue up and then we will see REAL muslim persecution.
@UserBaines
@UserBaines 9 жыл бұрын
"Do you think that our lack of response to climate change has more to do with people saying in polls that they don't accept evolution or the fact that our system is completely locked by petro and fossil fuel money that will not allow needed reforms?" The two are inextricably linked. The caller is absolutely right. The hosts are completely blind.
@mechaux1
@mechaux1 9 жыл бұрын
the questions is about policymakers not voters which one will influence a politician to reject laws to deal with climate change. Is there more pressure from a religious voter base or millions of dollars from petrol-coal companies that could lose profits due to new regulations
@AnxiousObserver
@AnxiousObserver 9 жыл бұрын
We're NOT "trying to figure out what's going on" in those Muslim places, why do you keep saying that? That's not the goal of what people like Maher and Harris were criticizing Islam. No one is saying history, culture, whatever else is influencing Islamic countries. YOU are trying to say Islam has NOTHING to do with it??
@Carltoncurtis1
@Carltoncurtis1 9 жыл бұрын
It's not constructive criticism. It doesn't do anything but make people mad or just ignore it. Ofcourse Islam is a huge part of it but the question is what IS the goal here of Sam Harris merely criticizing Islam. How does that change the wars in those regions? or our policy towards it? You think it's intellectual but in reality its nothing more than if some random person walked up to you on the street and told you your face was stupid... really, what you the normal human's response to that be but say "ummm ok" and continue about their day.
@bohemianwriter1
@bohemianwriter1 9 жыл бұрын
I don't know, but if you are going to criticize something, it might be a good idea to know what you are criticizing, Wanna criticize Islam? Fine! then go and read a Q'uran! See, when I debate Muslims open for a debate, I criticize their dogma on their own terms, with KNOWLEDGE about what I'm talking about.... And as far as my Iraqi drug dealer goes, he's just as disgusted about ISIL as any other normal person. As a Norseman, and a born again Cynic and Carlinist, I can hardly wait for the cataclysm. You¨ll find me in the mountains. Hoarded up with weed, mead and Calvados...
@Carltoncurtis1
@Carltoncurtis1 9 жыл бұрын
Even then, reading a Q'uran isn't gonna cut it because you never grew up in the Arab world and you don't speak Arabic. There isn't even an Official English Q'uran to read! So unless Sam Harris can speak fluent Arabic, he just read books ABOUT Q'uran and he's no more knowledgeable about the damn thing than any of us watching you tube vids and browsing wiki.. "I know all about the bible!" "Have you read the KJV, the regular old bible that everybody reads?" "No, because I can't read English but I've read lots of books ABOUT the Bible!" SERIOUSLY? How stupid does that sound? Cuz that's how fucking retarded Sam Harris is.
@taiwanjohn
@taiwanjohn 9 жыл бұрын
I find it practically unbearable to listen to you guys take phone calls. I don't think I've *ever* heard you allow a caller to finish a complete thought without rudely interrupting.
@specimenp9090
@specimenp9090 9 жыл бұрын
Wow! You guys sounds like creationists with your fallacious argumentation. LOL
@ryancruz1876
@ryancruz1876 3 жыл бұрын
They sound like creationists because they are against bigotry?
@Colls515
@Colls515 Ай бұрын
They ended up being right tho. Coming from the future
@soolinemag
@soolinemag 9 жыл бұрын
Michael Brooks. You're the brains of this operation. I'm disappointed that you don't really have a clue what Sam Harris is even talking about.
@AholeAtheist
@AholeAtheist 9 жыл бұрын
The caller is correct about the knowledge of the electorate. If people held the correct beliefs things could be changed regardless of how much money big business tries to throw around.
@AnxiousObserver
@AnxiousObserver 9 жыл бұрын
Matt and Michael - you still just do not get it. You don't understand that criticizing Islam does not mean you hate Muslims or support war. You keep bringing in these other things, that's not what we're talking about. We're not saying "look at what Muslims do, it's because of the Quran." We're saying the Quran is horrible and we should rightfully criticize it.
@Felizdakat
@Felizdakat 9 жыл бұрын
Frenzy786 How does criticising religious text make you a bigot?
@karljohn2145
@karljohn2145 9 жыл бұрын
Felizda Kat because if the Right Wing and the Christian Right hate Islam and Muslims.....WE SHOULDN'T! end of discussion!
@Felizdakat
@Felizdakat 9 жыл бұрын
karl john Where did I say anything about hating? Hating and criticising are two totally different things. On another note, if conservatives are against something you should be for it and if they are for something you must be against it if you are liberal? How narrow minded. I agree very little with conservative world view but it doesn't mean I'm just going to dismiss it becasue they are conservative. I consder all points of view.
@KaijinDV
@KaijinDV 9 жыл бұрын
karl john the Right Wing and Christian Right also hate atrocities committed by the Soviet Union, should we not criticize those as well?
@RoninDave
@RoninDave 9 жыл бұрын
And yet despite these cherry-picked Koranic verses the history of Islamic areas showed an amazingly amount of tolerance towards non-muslims in sharp contrast to christian europe at the time. People like you point to certain passages and random acts of violence and think "aha! I understand Islam and it's sooooo bad!"
@infinityand0
@infinityand0 9 жыл бұрын
Michael, YOU are the one with the overly simplistic view regarding Harris. While I don't agree with Harris on a number of points, you are straw manning him badly. You just refuse to truly understand the position and continue to be a hypocrite.
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